JUST joined this is my 1st post. what kind of experience is out there with towing with OLD station wagons? By about June of this 2005 i wound up with a 1982 ford country squire 302 engine with an automatic overdrive. At only 70,000 miles its a joy to drive. Since it came along the decision got made to find a pop up. what a coincidence: a 1982 palomino fold a wall came through. I have equipped the wagon with a transmission cooler ironically I am so concerned for my engine and transmission. What kind of weight can the camper be? what kind of capacity can the wagon tow? neither have owners manuals but I figure that any v-8 should tow a pop up, I am finding out that in line sixes and v-sixes are flying down highways with pop ups in tow. people i know have told me and have seen such for myself......ironically I worry anyway! THANK YOU EVERYBODY!
Hello and welcome to PUT!
I've had several Crown Vic's... (all of them were not wagons though), but set up properly (trailer tow option and/or police package) up to the 1991 model year they could tow 5000 pounds. Adding a tranny cooler to yours was a great addition - but this lets you know that your wagon does not have the trailer towing pkg. All of mine have sagged with a trailer in tow, and I added a set of Monroe Load-Leveler shocks and that cured that problem.
http://www.shockwarehouse.com/cgi-bin/shocks/mon_loadlevel.html (//%22http://www.shockwarehouse.com/cgi-bin/shocks/mon_loadlevel.html%22)
I hope this helped!
Welcome to PUT!
The load leveler shocks are a good idea, or there are air bags for the rear end that are also adjustable. The Monroes are automatic.
Yes, you see many 4 and 6 cylinders flying down the road with popups. But they may be overloaded, or they may be properly equipped.
If I had a Corvette with a 350ci engine in it, I still wouldn't put a trailer behind it, because its chassis is not designed for pulling a load. However, my 4x4 truck and its four cylinder are rated for 3500 pounds! So, you see, the engine isn't the only part of the equation.
Your Pal fold-a-wall probably weighs no more than 2500# loaded. How long is the box?
Larry
Check with a Ford or a Ford dealer (have the vin handy). They will be able to tell you what the wagon is rated to tow. Good luck with the PU.:)
only me what a laugh, I only recall I got into a pop up forum couldnt recall the name have tried all day i finally got back WHEW, now to uhm: "he rescues police cars", then Larry and Holly the newlyweds, then Tracy and the gang Pa.: I'm SO grateful to you all for your replies here!
In addition to the trans cooler i also added an innovation to the cooling. I just DO NOT care for thermal clutches on the cooling fan. I recall and "LOVE" the fan bolted right to the coolant pump for POWER COOLING. What good is a trans cooler without a power cooler. So I stuck bolts into that thermal clutch that locked the fan. There is a controversy that power is lost from the engine However many also agree that i AM cooling everything......."perfectly" now.
So my old "squire" with its 302, a trans cooler, and a power fan to insure cooling is really all I need I love the idea of bringing the wagons VIN to a dealership to get the weight specs.
Oh I did measure the longest and widest points of the box of the pop up: does it sound right that i got 12 feet 6 inches long by 6 feet 6 inches wide? Sadly since my finances are more than maxed out jeopardising any kind of get away this year, there is nothing i can do bout SAG in the rear once i get in tow. The sag in the rear BETTER not adversally effect my driving, I have seen vehicles low in the rear but still moving right along.
REPLY PLEASE KEEP IN CONTACT!
Are we talking 12 ft. 6 in. from tip of the tongue to the rear bumper? If so, you probably have a 10 ft. box, aka a CXL/SXL(Palomino "brands" their hard-walls by the model name's first initial then with XL, example, CXL=Colt XL, or SXL=Stallion XL). The specs vary from year to year, based on model.
My MXL (Mustang XL) has the 12 ft. box, while the whole rig tip to rear is about 15 ft. GVWR on it is 2000 lbs, but with all the junk I carry, I'm at about 2300.
IIRC, your C.S. is one of those old boxy looking beasts, not one of the Fairmont based "mid-sized" wagons. You should have no problems towing one of the Pals, but as far as "sag" in the back end(IIRC, those C.S.'s have a long tail-end overhang) maybe go with gas-charged shocks. Don't go with air-shocks, those are intended for internal loads, not towing.
THANK YOU for the reply, I am getting my knowledge here it is totally exciting however what is IIRC? It seems to appear with c.s. which i assume means country squire (my station wagon).
WHAT IS IIRC PLEASE?
Quote from: brianradomskiWHAT IS IIRC PLEASE?
Brian check out the following page:
Message Board Shorthand
Got caught up working on the directions from tom 5055 about the "message board short hand" dont i just sit corrected.
Anyway sir (miller tyme) regretfully I am embarased enough that i am too new at any of this to do things with presicion perfection. I just plain and simply didnt know how to measure properly. I measured my palomino CLOSED and ONLY the "box" I never knew to include from the tongue (where the gas tank sits and the ball housing) straight back to its rear "bumper". So the 12feet six inches is JUST the box sir.
Very exciting for me that you are knowledged in palominos. Mine being older well all that can be seen from out side is "palomino XL" there is little determining i suppose weather or not mine is a mustang a colt yearling etc. If I examined the power cable line then probably the amp rateing would be printed on that cable? SAD it is larked nearly an hour from here. Do I give you any better info sir? THANK YOU. In fact from the palomino website I thought I had it to understand that only ONE model of the palomino pop up was a fold a wall. WHOA SIR since you might perhaps be an authority on the fold a wall since I am desperate to maintain the backs of both my lady Kim and i, well i know to park the camper LEVEL but .....I have designed a jack to fit inside and press upward on the roof till the spring loaded arms garb it? THANK YOU!
No problem, Brian. I just measured my Pal, and sure enough, it's box-only length is 12'6". So that would make yours an MXL, just like mine.:D
My power cord has the following info on it--E67955 14 3 Type STW A For Recreational Vehicles 15 Amp ---so yours is probably the same.
Yes currently Palomino only makes the Mustang XL fold-a-wall(14ft), but as I said, in the past, they built fold-a-walls for all of their models---8ft(CXL), 10ft(SXL), 12ft(MXL) and 14 ft(TXL).
As far as the lift arms, you may want to replace the springs. The springs do most of the lifting. If you contact Vanguard Ind.(builders of Palomino) they can help you. The replacement springs run about $25 each(you need all four), and are a do-it-yourself project if you're handy with tools. Several members of this board and other camping message boards have contacted me about the repair, and it can be done by yourself.
Here's the link to Palomino---www.palominorv.com
HTH(hope that helps!):!
Somehow i want beer. I really do, the question is: do i want beer so much or do i want so much beer? And will I have fun when I learn how to use those action faces!!
Anyway Mr. Miller Tyme, you ended with "hope that helps". You help far more than you know you are provoking more questions from me so hopefully you and everybody will be patient. my intention is NOT to abuse this forum hopefully it can be realised that this forum at least right now for me is doing its job: educating and helping.
Sir do you use your MXL enough to know how exactly the surge brakes work, do they work well? Asside from insuring there is brake fluid in the cylinder is there anything else? A Ford dealership assured me that I should be able to roll along at 65 or 70 mph......isnt that reassuring but with only hydraulic surge brakes how do I stop the whole rig? I am willing to drive 50 the whole way (even to FL.) but boy that slow and I will only have a week's vacation.
Yes my wagon is a full size boxy thing, handsome enough, i think it rather regal looking, I think its styled rather well. I dont think its too much of just an ugly old.
How much are we allowed to talk, I'm not obsessive compulsive but I do want to tow as safe and proper as possible THANK YOU AS ALWAYS!!!
Well since you bring up beer, here's a few more..:!:!:!:!
When you type your reply, on the second line to the left of the scissors icon, there is a smilie face. Click on it, and it gives you a bunch of "emoticons", as they're called.
As far as the surge brakes--they work like auto drum brakes. As you slow down the tow vehicle, a lever in the trailer tongue puts pressure on the master cylinder mounted on the tongue, forcing brake fluid to the wheel cylinders, which activate the brake pads to contact the drum.. As your Pal is older, it may be wise to have an RV tech, mechanic or someone good with brakes check out your pads. And, while you're at it, you should re-pack your wheel bearings. Most older pop-ups are equipped with surge brakes, especially older Pals and Jaycos. Electric brakes back then were an option, where-as today most if not all pop-ups come with electric brakes.
Keep the questions coming...I've got lots of beer!:!
Rather than take time off from my job to phone up to Michigan (which I've done already) to vanguard Industries who manufactures the PALOMINO CAMPER It is thus far more parctical to get info. i seek here.
Of course too another alternative is to just get over my inconfidence risk the station wagon and just give the old MXL a trial run or so. Meant no harm.
I'd certainly make a call to the palomino line camper as I have dome in the past but there is no calling them from my job I need to take off time from my job. If patient souls would please just bare with me a little longer.
What ever info I can get before I actually get in tow will hopefully prevent any damage or incidents. Thank you
Towing a pop-up with your wagon is not a problem at all. I tow a 2001 Coleman Sea Pine with a 1991 Mercury Colony Park with the 302 V-8. Mine has fuel injection, which is a big improvement from the carbureted version. Probably the biggest impact on towing will be the rear axle ratio. The factory trailer towing package included a 3.27 rear axle ratio. My car has a 3.08, which is adequate, but not great. Some of these cars might also have a 2.73. That is geared toward gas mileage at freeway speeds at the sacrifice of low end power. The factory tow package also included a heavy duty battery and alternator as well as dual exhausts. I had the dual exhaust put on at a local Midas dealer.
As suggested by others, I have outfit the rear with Monroe load lever shocks. I also had brand new springs installed front and rear, put performance Bilstein shocks up front, and an Addco sway bar in the rear. I have never towed longer than 180 miles, and usually only 50 miles, so I have skipped the transmission cooler for now, in favor of frequent fluid flushes. We are thinking of a slightly larger pop-up next year, at which point I plan to add the transmission cooler and perhaps a set of air lift 1000 air bags inside the rear coil springs. I am also thinking of new rear gears as well.
However, the greatest addition to the car is a set of Keystone Klassic chrome rims, circa 1970's, that upgrade the appearance of the car immensely. Mine is a light crystal blue metallic color, and is in showroom new condition, inside and out. As soon at the Keystone wheels went on, the car began to turn heads wherever it goes, particularly at the campground. I have it polished so well that you can literally read a newpaper from its reflection on the hood. I have also polished the wood veneer to a high gloss as well. These cars are unique, and stand out in a world of me too SUV's.
Quote from: tlhdocCheck with a Ford or a Ford dealer (have the vin handy). They will be able to tell you what the wagon is rated to tow. Good luck with the PU.:)
Back to work tommorrow so i had the time today drove the wagon to a local dealership there fore with the VIN from it they could do nothing so i am still confirming and verifying>
Hello again sir thank you and everybody for having me here.
What a scary revelation has occured tonight. The tongue weight of my MXL. It seems to me the tongue weight of mine is either 300 or 350pds. well multiply that by the 10(%) and i have 3000 or 3500 pds which is just about TOO heavy for my wagon which means everything for me is WRONG and i blew it!
a tongue weight of 200 or 250 multiplied by 10(%) is 2000 or 2500 which is still pushing the limit. What ever your camper's tongue weight is mine has to be also.....mine is far away yours is right there i believe? What weight is the tongue on yours please? THANK YOU!
Quote from: lastwgnTowing a pop-up with your wagon is not a problem at all. I tow a 2001 Coleman Sea Pine with a 1991 Mercury Colony Park with the 302 V-8. Mine has fuel injection, which is a big improvement from the carbureted version. Probably the biggest impact on towing will be the rear axle ratio. The factory trailer towing package included a 3.27 rear axle ratio. My car has a 3.08, which is adequate, but not great. Some of these cars might also have a 2.73. That is geared toward gas mileage at freeway speeds at the sacrifice of low end power. The factory tow package also included a heavy duty battery and alternator as well as dual exhausts. I had the dual exhaust put on at a local Midas dealer.
As suggested by others, I have outfit the rear with Monroe load lever shocks. I also had brand new springs installed front and rear, put performance Bilstein shocks up front, and an Addco sway bar in the rear. I have never towed longer than 180 miles, and usually only 50 miles, so I have skipped the transmission cooler for now, in favor of frequent fluid flushes. We are thinking of a slightly larger pop-up next year, at which point I plan to add the transmission cooler and perhaps a set of air lift 1000 air bags inside the rear coil springs. I am also thinking of new rear gears as well.
However, the greatest addition to the car is a set of Keystone Klassic chrome rims, circa 1970's, that upgrade the appearance of the car immensely. Mine is a light crystal blue metallic color, and is in showroom new condition, inside and out. As soon at the Keystone wheels went on, the car began to turn heads wherever it goes, particularly at the campground. I have it polished so well that you can literally read a newpaper from its reflection on the hood. I have also polished the wood veneer to a high gloss as well. These cars are unique, and stand out in a world of me too SUV's.
REPLYING HERE IN CAPITALS SO YOU WONT MISS MY THANKLS AND GRATITUDE TO YOU FOR THE REPLY. IT IS SO TOTALLY HELPFUL THAT YOU TOW WITH A 302 ALSO! SADLY I CANNOT AFFORD THE APPROPRITES YOU HAD INSTALLED ONTO YOUR WAGON. A U-HAUL DEALRTSHIP WAS THE ONLY DEALER WHO COULD SUPPLY A CLASS II CHASSIS MOUNT RECIEVER. I INSTALLED THE COOLER. AS I WROTE TO MILLER TYME THOUGH I AM GETTING CONCERNED THAT IF MY TONGUE WEIGHT IS 200 TO 350 PDS I AM TALKING A 2000 TO 3500 PD CAMPER WHICH IS STRETCHING IT FOR MY WAGON TRANS COOLER OR NOT AND CHUGGING ALONG AT 50 MPH (its actually fine with me but) IS A BIT SLOW TO GET TO FL IN 2 DAYS AS USUAL.
THE SOUTH IS SO FLAT THAT IF ITS FLAT ENOUGH THAT ONCE I GET MY WAGON OUT ON 95 AND ROLLING IF I CAN BET HER UP TO SPEED THAT'LL BE BETTER.........UGH WORRY WORRY WORRY BUT PLEASE DONT ANYBODY TIRE OF PLEASE!!! THANK YOU!
Brian-
I've never weighed the rig for it's tongue weight, but it's nowhere near 300 lbs. Tongue weight of the MXL's isn't that much, unless you have full dual propane tanks and a battery. Mine has just the single propane tank mounted in the center of the tongue, with no provision for a battery. My rig is light enough, that I can push it around the driveway with the front dolly wheel on.
QuoteIn addition to the trans cooler i also added an innovation to the cooling. I just DO NOT care for thermal clutches on the cooling fan. I recall and "LOVE" the fan bolted right to the coolant pump for POWER COOLING.
The thermal clutch on your car if in proper working order is more than capable of keeping the engine/transmission cool. At highway speeds you dont' need a solid mounted fan. Also at todays gas prices disableing it will cause increased fuel consuption and noise.
QuoteSo I stuck bolts into that thermal clutch that locked the fan. There is a controversy that power is lost from the engine However many also agree that i AM cooling everything......."perfectly" now.
I'm not sure how you locked the clutch with bolts but that is in no way a safe practice. It could put undue stress on the water pump/fan clutch shaft. If the assembly is not in balance the results could be catastrophic. If your lucky all you could get is a ventalated hood or radiator. I have known of a water pump shaft failing and decapitating someone. It happened in the small town where I work. If you are in doubt of the clutch on your car I would spend the $30-$50 dollars and get a new
thermal fan clutch. It would be cheap insurance. Just don't get a syntrifical fan clutch or you will have overheating problems while towing.