Hi folks,
First post on this web site. We have been tent campers in the past but after a bid trip to the Ozarks a couple of years ago the wife says no more camping. The pictures showed lush green grass and promised quiet. What we got was rocks and college kids partying utile 4 in the morning. Darn I wish I could still do that!
I have been hinting at giving something another try. I just spent a lot of time looking at different options at our local sports show. The camping crew consists of the wife and a 13 year old boy. The older kids are on their own.
I have a few years left before retirement and at that time I would like to do some sight seeing and snow birding. In the mean time I would like to get out of the hotels and back to the campgrounds.
The enclosed trailer guys tell me that I should spend my money on something with a slideout or I will lose the value in my purchase pretty quick. That sounds good except I then need a tow vehicle. I am also not sure I can store a large trailer on my property. I have room for a PU.
I have a 2004 Grand Cherokee that I would hope could pull a PU. What is the hit on fuel economy when pulling a medium size PU. I can normally knock down about 19 on the highway. How about resale? How long do you folks stay out at one time? I would like to plan some one to two week trips.
I have been reading all of the dry camping vs wet camping comments. There is some very good information in those comments. I guess I might need to subscribe to the PU Times!!
Thanks alot.
Bob
We have a 2004 Grand Cherokee Laredo with the inline 4.0L 6 cyl engine. Towing mileage hits in around 15 to 16 mpg.
That still sounds pretty reasonable. How does the Cherokee tow the PU?
Bob...They are also towing one of Fleetwood's smaller units. But I bet you could tow a bigger unit with your '04 Cherokee. It's just that you would take a bigger hit on mpg.
Larry
Hi Bob and welcome to PUT.:)
You can stay out as long as you like on a trip. We do several week long trips each year and often do a 2 week trip. It depends on how you have your trailer equipped and how much power you use. Since you have camped before you will have a good handle on PU camping. It is camping in a tent on wheels. You can get a basic PU or one of the more deluxe models, it all depends on what you want. Ask questions and we will give you our opinions.:)
I agree with all of you . Me and wife bought our first PU off of my aunt. The trailer was 11 yrs old but for our first it was perfect. As we went on trips and farther away we started to make a list of what we wanted in the next one. Our first was a 90 Coleman shenendoha (think I spelled it right). The trailer did have air in it, but no fridge (ice box instead), heat, grey water tank, or bathroom. We also had to drop the stink and evrything else. Still it helped us figure out what we really needed in the next and it was only an 8ft. box.
Last we sold the old one to are friends who were buying a trailer for the 1st time and purchased the new one at the rv show (best place to go when looking for a trailer because of the deals you can get). The new one is a 14ft box with everything. It is a Fleetwood Niagara. The nice thing is that fully loaded weighs only about 4100lbs loaded that included the stuff we keep int the trailer.
I pull that with either our 03 Explorer Sport Trac that has a 4.0L V6 sohc w/ a 4.10 GR and get right around 11 - 15 mpg or our 05 Explorer 4dr 4.6L V8 3.73 and get roughly about 9 - 14 mpg the longer trip and steadier the speed the better.
Ours is a slideout it does give you alot of extra room but when it is closed down you also loose extra floor space. Our trailer is just of 20 ft closed from font back and almost 28 ft open with 2 king size beds and twin when you fold the table down. This also has the same floor to ceiling height like almost all of the hard sides (8'4 or rediential height). The only draw back is you can't see out the back window because closed from ground to top of roof is about 65 inches tall and almost 8ft wide (7'7). Comes with shower, toilet, radio, heater 3ft cubic fridge bigger than the smaller pu that have 1.5 - 2.5 cubic fridge, stove, micro, range, 20 lb propane tanks, and more bought it last it was a list of almost $16,000 and we got for about $12,500.00 added a few things and they paid half or gave it to us for free. http://www.fleetwoodrv.com/ is the address and you can read the specs and pictures or to to my websots http://community.webshots.com/user/markspup this has pictures of old and new.
sorry if it long.
03 Explorer Sport Trac 5080lbs cause of 4x4
05 Explorer 4dr 4.6L V8 7000lbs cause it is 4x4
Mark '74
Susan '78
Marbles 10yr old cat code name missy
Quote from: mgbbobThat still sounds pretty reasonable. How does the Cherokee tow the PU?
It tows very well, solid and stable. Our camper is rated at 2440 GVWR. When outfitted completely, we're at 2140. Our combined weight can be around 6500. We are conscious of weights and loading, trying to get weight forward loaded on the camper to give us appropriate tongue weight. One word of warning...when we're hitched and loaded, the back of the Jeep is low enough that we don't use 4 wheel drive. The vehicle needs to be level to use it. I've considered adding air shocks, but haven't yet. A WDH might also help resolve this. All in all, we're very satisfied with our Grand Cherokee.
Thanks folks,
It is nice to find a forum that is active. I looked at the hybrid models and they are really nice. I would probably prefer pulling a lower model but I am sure the wife would like the nice stuff on the hybrid. The price is very attactive.
I may look for a used PU however to start. I haven't figured out all the financing options. At some point maybe purchasing new and financing longer for a hybrid is a good thing. I still like the more compact storage area for a PU. That would probably save some money.
If we look at a PU the one weakness to the plan is toilet and shower facilities. The easy answer is campgrounds with the added extras. When we tent camped we used the portashower bags and had pretty good luck. Time rolls on and I may be required to provided an upgrade in this area.
I also noticed some of the PU's are now offering heated beds. Anyone had any luck with the new mattresses.
I have a question on camping clubs but will post it seperatly.
Instead of air shocks look into air bags. I put airlift air bags on and compressor and let me tell you they work awesome. The bags I can fill by a switch mounted in my glove compartment to what ever pressure I need to make the trailer level and release the air when i'm detached. I was told to always keep 30lbs of pressure in at all times. Plus these will level up to an extra 2,000 lbs. This will save the abuse and wear on the springs and the ride is much better. I put these on our 03 sport trac and now also considering putting them on our 05 explorer 4dr. It does have a gauge if opt to add that. I was able to level the truck and trailer with 400 - 500 lbs plus us two and balances 385 lbs. of tongue weight and will give you better gas milage cause you are level and having you front end high. Bags hold 100lbs of pressure.
Mark '74
Susan '78
Marbles 10 yr old cat code name missy
Quote from: NIAGARA05Instead of air shocks look into air bags. I put airlift air bags on and compressor and let me tell you they work awesome. The bags I can fill by a switch mounted in my glove compartment to what ever pressure I need to make the trailer level and release the air when i'm detached. I was told to always keep 30lbs of pressure in at all times. Plus these will level up to an extra 2,000 lbs. This will save the abuse and wear on the springs and the ride is much better. I put these on our 03 sport trac and now also considering putting them on our 05 explorer 4dr. It does have a gauge if opt to add that. I was able to level the truck and trailer with 400 - 500 lbs plus us two and balances 385 lbs. of tongue weight and will give you better gas milage cause you are level and having you front end high. Bags hold 100lbs of pressure.
Mark '74
Susan '78
Marbles 10 yr old cat code name missy
Sounds interesting. Do you have any more information on these things, as in links, cost, etc?
Here is the website link for you this will tell you vehicles they, specs, and max leveling ability in lbs.
http://www.airliftcompany.com/
Hope this helps let me know
Mark '74
Susan '78
Marbles the cat 10yrs old code name missy
Quote from: dthurkSounds interesting. Do you have any more information on these things, as in links, cost, etc?
Air bag kits are about 5-20 times+ the cost of air shocks and do basically the same thing.
http://www.airbagit.com/airsuspension.htmThere may be less expensive air bags around, I don't know. I can assure you that if air shocks are available for your make & model, they are just as effective and a lot easier to install. The other thing to consider is that you are not only installing air bags (that's what air shocks have in them) but you are adding
new shock absorbers at the same time. When you add air bags, you still have your old shocks. Air shocks are also available with on-board air compressors. I don't think that the compressors are worth the investment though. You can do the same thing with a $15 electric air pump from Walmart and if it fails (which they do) it's far easier and less hassle to replace it.
My pet peeve is any item that claims to give "Better gas millage" :banghead: (No offense to the previous poster). This just tells me that the manufacturer of such items are really reaching for creative marketing techniques, which also leads me to question the value of the product on it's true merits. We used to see advertising for spark plugs, air filters, fuel filters, in-line fuel aerators, electronic gadgets, mufflers and so on that ALL claimed to increase your gas mileage by 10%. Heck, if you installed all of that stuff on your car, you should be producing gas that you could sell to pay for those products :yikes: .
Gas mileage is effected by the following:
1. Ratio of HP (to the drive wheels) to total weight.
2. Terrain (mountains, sand etc)
3. Resistance, both air and road.
4. Efficiency of the engine in burning fuel.
It goes, basically, in that order.
I suppose if your vehicle were bottoming out due to loading, this would add to road resistance. I also would imagine that if your front end were extremely high, that would add to wind resistance. The factors are are so minimal as to not be worth considering as it pertains to fuel consumption. Of course, those factors should be remedied for other, obvious, reasons.
Quote from: waveryAir bag kits are about 5-20 times+ the cost of air shocks and do basically the same thing.
Except one thing - because the components the shocks are attached to are not designed for vehicle weights, air shocks are more likely to damage your suspension or (more likely) poke a hole through the bottom of your vehicle.
Austin
Quote from: AustinBostonExcept one thing - because the components the shocks are attached to are not designed for vehicle weights, air shocks are more likely to damage your suspension or (more likely) poke a hole through the bottom of your vehicle.
Austin
I was a service manager for many years at a Chevy dealer. I saw a lot of stuff happen from "Add-ons". That surely wasn't one of them :p In fact, air shocks are often offered as a factory option (on some vehicles).
Besides, I'm not suggesting over-loading the vehicles recommended weight limits. All I'm saying is, air shocks can give you a more level ride and air shocks cost a LOT less than air bags.
Air bags are typically bolted to the frame and the axle. This puts forces in areas that may not be designed (at all) to handle those forces. I would feel MUCH more comfortable using air shocks than air bags. When air shocks are installed, they remove your standard shocks (which are dealing with that load anyway) and istall air shocks on the exact mountings. The load is put exactly where the manufacturer designed the vehicle to handle such loads. Think about it, when the air bags are inflated, they take the entire load off of the stock suspension and redistributes it to areas that were not designed to handle that load.
I have welded many shock mounts back on, all with air shocks. The little trucks I work on where old enough not to go to the dealer. I put a set of bags on my fathers new '85 F-150 because it was too lite to handle his 5er. In the next 190000 miles (oveloaded at least half the time) we wore out 3 sets of rear wheel bearings but the air bags still worked when I sold the truck to pay sales tax on my Dodge. The only reason I would put air shocks on anything is to hide bad springs while I found the truck a new home.
Quote from: ScoobyDooI have welded many shock mounts back on, all with air shocks. The little trucks I work on where old enough not to go to the dealer. I put a set of bags on my fathers new '85 F-150 because it was too lite to handle his 5er. In the next 190000 miles (oveloaded at least half the time) we wore out 3 sets of rear wheel bearings but the air bags still worked when I sold the truck to pay sales tax on my Dodge. The only reason I would put air shocks on anything is to hide bad springs while I found the truck a new home.
Well, I was also in off-road racing (years ago) and saw a lot of shock mounts broken off :p . They were mostly air shocks but we are talking about something quite different here. I doubt very much, if an air shock would break a mount any faster than a stock shock if the vehicle is not over-loaded or used on extremely rough roads (such as off-roading). This discussion has been about leveling a vehicle with an acceptable weight trailer that has caused the stock vehicle to become unleveled.
Your example of the '85 F150 is an example that I would have used air-bags as well (although I would never recommend it to others). The vehicle was obviously extremely over-loaded (with a 5er). Earlier Ford truck frames were very heavy. That seems a good match for THAT example.
However, as fuel economy demands become more and more stringent, the manufacturers are cutting down on vehicle weight tremendously (remember fuel economy rule #1. Total weight to HP ratio). When they do that, they carefully engineer the vehicle to accept loads in
very specific areas and have (in most cases) cut down on the weight of the vehicles frame. I would not recommend drilling holes in the lightened frame of any 2001+ vehicle and adding a mount that is going to carry an extremely heavy load (as in your example). If you look around at the vehicles that most of the members have here, they are late model vehicles. Most members are very careful about not over-loading their vehicles (present writer accepted)
I will shut-up now because I am probably the worst offender of weight limits on this board and I'm starting to feel a bit hypocritical :( .
The best solution is an equalizing (a.k.a. weight distributing) hitch, but the same things that contraindicate air shocks and air bags usually completely rule out a WDH, *plus* the trailer may rule out a WDH.
If the tow vehicle will allow it, and the trailer will allow it, a WDH is always the way to go. But with pop-ups, that's often not the case.
Austin
QuoteAir bags are typically bolted to the frame and the axle. This puts forces in areas that may not be designed (at all) to handle those forces. I would feel MUCH more comfortable using air shocks than air bags. When air shocks are installed, they remove your standard shocks (which are dealing with that load anyway) and istall air shocks on the exact mountings. The load is put exactly where the manufacturer designed the vehicle to handle such loads. Think about it, when the air bags are inflated, they take the entire load off of the stock suspension and redistributes it to areas that were not designed to handle that load.
Shocks or their mounts are not really designed to carry the weight of a vehicle. They are for ride control. The vehicle springs are designed to carry the weight of the vehicle.
Welcome to the forum.
This thread got technical real fast and it's all good stuff. I wanted to jump in with another alternative that might be a good comproise if you don't exceed the weight ratings of your tow vehicles.
You may want to evaluate Hi-Lo and TrailManor units that fold down while traveling and lift up when you are in the campground, giving you a pretty good size trailer with all the amenities of a standard travel trailer.
You can do your research at:
www.hilotrailer.com (//%22http://www.hilotrailer.com/%22)
and
www.trailmanor.com (//%22http://www.trailmanor.com/%22)
There are also many excellent, good size, folding camping trailers (pop ups) that include bathrooms with a shower, so you don't have to give up a few extras just becuase you go camping in a pop-up.
Enjoy your research, and enjoy the camping experience and the new friends you have found here.
I might have failed to mention that I only installed the on the rear of the vehicle on the leaf springs the shocks are still there it just aids the leafs springs so that they don't flatten so fast. I guess there is good and bad with all of them. The other advantage is that if you blow the seals on the shock the trucks rear could sink where if the bags blow you still have the full opereation of the shock and springs.
Mark '74
Susan '78
Marbles the cat 10yrs old code name missy
Don't let that Jeep worry you at all, it'll pull any PU made!! I have had 3 PU's and pulled them all with my Grand Cherokee, and I'm now pulling around a 23' Hybrid TT with the same ol' Jeep...
Grand Cherokee with the 4.0L Six has a 5000 lb tow rating, the V8 version has a 6500 lb rating. You'll be good to go with any PU on the market!! Fuel economy will vary depending on how you tow. If you turn OFF the Overdrive as recommeded you're engine will run at higher RPM's and burn more fuel, as well as the additional drag. I found that as long as I was on level ground I could keep the OD engaged and had very little loss of fuel economy. However, in the hills (any kind of hills) I had to turn the OD off to keep the tranny from searching (shifting up & down etc...burns it up fast).
With the Hybrid I can't tow it all with the OD engaged, and the huge drag from the large frontal mass reduced my fuel mileage to 8 mpg... Big difference than pulling the PU around!!
To the question of the Jeep: Depends on which engine you have to figure out how well your Jeep will handle the load. Our 99 Grand Cherokee has a 6 cyl 4L engine. It tows a 3,000 load well, but struggles in the mountains. Flat land towing is pretty easy. Mpg drops to 16 or so. Our 03 has an 8 cyl that has no problems at all and ends up with about the same mph towing.
The lesson is to remember that any trailer is going to affect things like acceleration and grade climbing. A bigger engine is less likely to get bogged down, driving down mpg.
Be generous in engine size and it'll drop your mpg less than if you're close to maxing out your engine.
Quote from: mgbbobIf we look at a PU the one weakness to the plan is toilet and shower facilities. The easy answer is campgrounds with the added extras. When we tent camped we used the portashower bags and had pretty good luck. Time rolls on and I may be required to provided an upgrade in this area.
I also noticed some of the PU's are now offering heated beds. Anyone had any luck with the new mattresses.
Hi, Bob!
This is a great site. Addicting, too! I have a Rockwood 1950. It's small (10' box), but it has the shower/toilet combo (you can get the cassette toilet out without popping up -- an issue in some models), AND it has heated mattresses! Boy oh boy, what a luxury! I've been in the mountains where the temp. gets low and as long as I have elect. I can plug those suckers in & sleep comfortably in a t-shirt! It's hard not to gloat when I come waltzing out in the morning & see the faces of folks who were really cold because of all the cold air under their mattresses. That being said, some people place an electric blanket under their sheets & get the same effect (I think). I sure wouldn't trade them, though!
Keep looking, and I bet you'll find just what you're looking for. And don't settle for less than what you want. You'll regret it, and you'll never get your wife out unless you buy something really big! ;)
I just read all the posts above me. I can feel the testosterone oozing out of the screen! Wow, you guys! You crack me up!
Has anyone tried Timbren SES on a minivan?