Well, I just returned from the DMV AND CHP office and they are both confused on the CA vehicle code.
I could make this a long juicy story but I will cut to the questions. :compumad:
Please only CA registered owners reply.
1. What is your LENGTH of PUP (Bumper to tip of hitch)
2. What is the BODY TYPE designation on your registration (CCH or CMP)
3. What type of license plate do you have (PTI or annual renew)
My trailer is up to renew the registration and I am questioning if I can obtain a PTI plate. The Vehicle code is confusing at best but the info I pulled from the vehicle code says I can get a PTI plate but the nice lady :D at the DMV says I don't qualify.
I am just curious what plates people have out there. Thanks in advance for your replies.
Patrick
I just talked to dh who knows more about these things than me and here's what he thinks. When we purchased our 05 Niagara we had the PTI plate (14' box) that didn't need to be renewed for 5 years. When we purchased our 07 HTT (24' closed) we didn't get the PTI plates. He thinks that it depends on length/size and/or weight. He agrees that he vehicle codes are confusing and he deals with them everyday.
What kind of trailer do you have?
We have a 2002 Coleman Tahoe, 12' box. I believe the the trailer is 16' end to end. If it's important, I'll take a tape measure to it.
We purchased our PU 18 months ago.
I have the pink slip in my hand and the Body Type is "CMP" . The Class is "AW" and the Registration Exp Date is, "PERM" (I guess that is PTI but it doesn't say that).
ours is PTI. its a 94 1020 starcraft 10 foot box not sure hitch to tail. We went to AAA and it was a piece of cake...
OK....Here it is.....straight from the DMV website:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/commercial/cvra.htm
Scroll down to where it says, "Trailers"
-----------------PTI explanation---------------------
Trailers
What trailers are subject to Permanent Trailer Identification (PTI)?
All trailers except park trailers and trailer coaches are subject to PTI.
NOTE: A camp trailer or fifth-wheel trailer (depending upon maximum length, width, or size) can be registered as a trailer coach, or camp trailer. Camp trailers are subject to PTI, but trailer coaches are subject to annual registration and excluded from PTI.
-----------------Camp Trailer Explanation---------------
242. A "camp trailer" is a vehicle designed to be used on a highway, capable of human habitation for camping or recreational purposes, that does not exceed 16 feet in overall length from the foremost point of the trailer hitch to the rear extremity of the trailer body and does not exceed 96 inches in width and includes any tent trailer. Where a trailer telescopes for travel, the size shall apply to the trailer as fully extended. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a camp trailer shall not be deemed to be a trailer coach.
Added Ch. 1536, Stats. 1971. Operative May 3, 1972.
------------------------------------------------------------------
*Note:
Color and bold emphasis are mine. :sombraro:
Wavery,
This is exactly what I had printed (and some other things) and taken to the DMV and the CHP. I went to the DMV and at first they wouldn't even listen to what I had to say or read the code.
I finally had a manager review everything and he didn't know whether he could issue a PTI to me or not, he refered me to the CHP office.
I explained everything again to the CHP officer, and he to didn't understand exactly what type/size of trailers fell into the PTI description, he had a second office review and also pulled the DMV Manual which also stated basically the same thing as the actual code.
So, Wavery, how do you read the code?
I have a PUP that measures 19' from hitch to bumper, do I qualify the way you read the code?
Thanks for your input.
Quote from: waveryOK....Here it is.....straight from the DMV website:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/commercial/cvra.htm
Scroll down to where it says, "Trailers"
-----------------PTI explanation---------------------
Trailers
What trailers are subject to Permanent Trailer Identification (PTI)?
All trailers except park trailers and trailer coaches are subject to PTI.
NOTE: A camp trailer or fifth-wheel trailer (depending upon maximum length, width, or size) can be registered as a trailer coach, or camp trailer. Camp trailers are subject to PTI, but trailer coaches are subject to annual registration and excluded from PTI.
-----------------Camp Trailer Explanation---------------
242. A "camp trailer" is a vehicle designed to be used on a highway, capable of human habitation for camping or recreational purposes, that does not exceed 16 feet in overall length from the foremost point of the trailer hitch to the rear extremity of the trailer body and does not exceed 96 inches in width and includes any tent trailer. Where a trailer telescopes for travel, the size shall apply to the trailer as fully extended. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a camp trailer shall not be deemed to be a trailer coach.
Added Ch. 1536, Stats. 1971. Operative May 3, 1972.
------------------------------------------------------------------
*Note:
Color and bold emphasis are mine. :sombraro:
The way that it reads (to me)........ANY Tent trailer is eligible for PTI. That tells me that a "Tent Trailer" doesn't even have to conform to the size limitations. The size limitations appear to pertain to Other than Tent Trailers. For example.....a Travel Trailer that is 15' 10" long and less than 96" is eligible but a Travel Trailer that is 19' long is not because it is no longer considered a "Camp Trailer". However ANY tent trailer is considered a "Camp Trailer".
This paragraph seems to hold the key:
"All trailers except park trailers and trailer coaches are subject to PTI."
In other words, a trailer that can be lived in, in a "trailer park" would not qualify for PTI if it exceeds those measurements. This seems to say that no "Tent Trailer" would ever qualify to live in a trailer park, no matter what the measurements.
It seems pretty clear to me but I'm not a lawyer. We have a few of those around so stick around and maybe one of them may help out.
I have sent this link to my sister, also known as Miss DMV, around our family. When she responds, I will post what she says.
I agree with Wavery -- it specifically mentions "tent trailers," AKA a pop-up. Therein is your answer.
FYI, I have the PTI sticker for my 1998 Coleman Sunridge, 12' box. I registered it at AAA and that's what they gave us. The previous owners also had the PTI sticker. (Even though I have the DMV connection, so I don't have to stand in the God-awful lines, I still use AAA for most easy things.)
So, is a HTT considered a "tent trailer" because of its pop-OUT sides? Or do you go by length?
Laura
Quote from: AzusateachSo, is a HTT considered a "tent trailer" because of its pop-OUT sides? Or do you go by length?
Laura
I think that may be pushing it but I suppose that an argument could be made for that.
We have a 2001 Coleman Westlake. Loaded weight 3,500 lbs/ We also have PTI tags on it. They were sent directly to us by the DMV when they first started with PTI tags 5 years ago. Our camper also has the 12ft box (probably 14ft with the front trunk).
Jacqui
What is the exact code? DH didn't know where to look in his Vehicle Code book but once he has it, I can have him look it up and see how he interprets it.
Wavery has the code in his response on the 1st page of this thread.
Thanks to all of your responses, so far all of you read it the same way I do.
I currently am having a co-worker, who is our leagal counsel review it and run it by a couple of his connections. I am also e-mailing the Governor's office :U (no kidding, I really am).
Quote from: kimrb266What is the exact code? DH didn't know where to look in his Vehicle Code book but once he has it, I can have him look it up and see how he interprets it.
Quote from: kimrb266What is the exact code? DH didn't know where to look in his Vehicle Code book but once he has it, I can have him look it up and see how he interprets it.
Here is the veh code:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d01/vc242.htmI'm not sure how to read these things but it appears to be:
Division 1, Section 242, Added Ch. 1536, Stats. 1971. Operative May 3, 1972
There is NO question that ALL "Camp trailers" are eligible for PTI. The question is the definition of a "Camp Trailer". This code gives the definition and states "
includes any tent trailer". I just don't see how it could be any clearer than that.
NOW!!! the bigger question is........Is a HTT considered a "Tent Trailer". It is a trailer and the sleeping quarters are tents. I think that you could make a good argument. I'm just not sure that it would be worth the time and $. DMV would fight that for sure. However, if challenged, I think they may lose unless they change the wording in that rule. It says ANY tent trailer. It does not say, "Any
folding tent trailer" or "any folding tent trailer with a maximum folded height of 4' ". To my knowledge Hybrids did not exist in 1972, when that was written.
Boy, if I had time and lots of extra $$, it would be fun to take this on. I'd love to get those permanent plates for my trailer!
Here was my sister's response to me. I'm arguing with her because of the verbiage about tent trailers. I'll let you know any new responses I get from her.
BTW Kim, she works at our DMV.
"Wow, now heres a good one Trina. Those are still considered Camp trailers & are on a regular registration. Ok, I'm a nice guy and if I see one registarted wrong I dont say anything; I just pick up the $20 but I do know the difference because I used to have one. Camp trailers have to be registered every year and not subject to Planned Non-operations(they cant have it). PTI's are for trailers/carriers and not human habitation. Key word is Human Habitation."
Quote from: Camping CoxesHere was my sister's response to me. I'm arguing with her because of the verbiage about tent trailers. I'll let you know any new responses I get from her.
BTW Kim, she works at our DMV.
"Wow, now heres a good one Trina. Those are still considered Camp trailers & are on a regular registration. Ok, I'm a nice guy and if I see one registarted wrong I dont say anything; I just pick up the $20 but I do know the difference because I used to have one. Camp trailers have to be registered every year and not subject to Planned Non-operations(they cant have it). PTI's are for trailers/carriers and not human habitation. Key word is Human Habitation."
I'm sorry but she is just wrong. It's hard to believe that she even read the DMV Rules....
The rule clearly states, "Camp trailers
are subject to PTI". :banghead:
Quote from: waveryI'm sorry but she is just wrong. It's hard to believe that she even read the DMV Rules....
The rule clearly states, "Camp trailers are subject to PTI". :banghead:
Wavery,
Thank you. This was the same explanation I first received. They asked me 'can you sleep in it?' I said yes, and their response was that it is not subject to PTI. Well, that is when the blood pressure (and voice) began to rise. I am amazed that the DMV clerks can get away with what they do, if I didn't have the copy of the code with me :book: , I wouldn't have made it this far.
As I mentioned earlier, I DID e-mail the Governor and also if anyone is from the San Diego area, I left a voice mail for "Turko" who is a reporter on one of the local news stations, he helps try to get to the bottom of very obvious problems where us commom folk need a hand.
Thanks again for all of your input and support in this matter. :yikes:
Here's how we had to register. The verbage someone had as a quote says " that does not exceed 16 feet in overall length from the foremost point of the trailer hitch to the rear extremity of the trailer body and does not exceed 96 inches in width" so our trailer from the tip of the tongue to the bumper is 17' in length and requires annual registration. This year the registration was $60.00, IIRC three years ago it was $70.00.
Our trailer is a 1997 Jayco Jay 1208. It was the only year our floorplan was made and sold. Same floorplan as the Jayco Eagle FK of the same year.
I'm starting to smell a rat here.
I wonder how many PU owners are being forced to pay these kind of fees. I smell a class action brewing. :mad:
California DMV is famous for collecting fraudulent fees.
Quote from: waveryI'm sorry but she is just wrong. It's hard to believe that she even read the DMV Rules....
The rule clearly states, "Camp trailers are subject to PTI". :banghead:
I don't think she did read the code, she just stated what she does when she gets someone at her window.
Hey guys, AAA puts the trailers on the PTI. Might be worth one person in the family joining for the year after year savings!
I have a question. I have heard that the individual counties issue drivers licences in CA. I this correct? My DGF works in state government and when she tries to get DMV info from CA she says it is a real pain because each county that issues licenses do not share their information very easily. This seems like an odd way for it to be set up.
Quote from: aw738I have a question. I have heard that the individual counties issue drivers licences in CA. I this correct? My DGF works in state government and when she tries to get DMV info from CA she says it is a real pain because each county that issues licenses do not share their information very easily. This seems like an odd way for it to be set up.
Not true. :sombraro:
Here is my two cents to add in here. When we went shopping for our pu, we were told by both the salesman and then at AAA that because the our tent trailer did not have a "bathroom" it was considered just a "camping trailer" as you have describe in post's before with the DMV code. Take a poll to see if our fellow campers like us & Trina and any one else who have the PTI license plates, have potties.
A final note, Im with AAA and believe me, they save you time, frustration, and you don't have to wait in long lines! Also very cool tour books.
Post #5 shows the entire code (as far as I know). I couldn't find anything about toilets in there.
Do you know any other code that is involved? I couldn't find one. I'm thinking that individual DMV employees are making their own interpretations or it could be that they are being trained to make these decisions. Either way, it's simply wrong.
However, they won't do anything about it unless they get hit with a class action law suit. That's the only way that they would stop forcing people to pay an illegal $300 EPA fee when bringing a car into Ca from out-of-state. The courts even told DMV to stop and they refused. It took a class action suit to do the trick. DMV had to refund millions of dollars in illegally collected fees. Ca DMV is a classic example of government with too much power, gone out of control IMO.
We have PTI Lic. and no bathroom........
Both of our PUP's had toilets and we had PTI.
Not to add to the confusion but, when I moved here 3 years ago and had to license my pop-up, the DMV lady told me, and I quote "You will be issued permanant plates that will renew every 5 years" I said ooook?:confused:
To me it seemed that if it were a trailer you could not write off as a second home on your taxes, you could get PTI tags. I could not write off my pop-up because, as my tax guy said it doesn't have a bathroom, meaning toilet, shower, sink, etc.
California is odd, I still can't figure out why if you own a boat or a jet ski you pay property taxes on it.
We have the cassette potty/shower combo and have PTI tags.
Jacqui
Quote from: OC CampersWe have the cassette potty/shower combo and have PTI tags.
Jacqui
But, you can't walk right into it, like a TT or a Hybrid. I think that makes the difference
Quote from: TheVikingBut, you can't walk right into it, like a TT or a Hybrid. I think that makes the difference
That could be a difference too. A tt/hybrid is already setup for living whereas a popup requires setup. I know you have to popout the hybrid ends but you could live in it without setting it up if you needed to.
Jacqui
We purchased a new Coleman Niagara in 2001, and it came with a licence plate that had to be renewed every year at a cost of $81.
Then when it came for time to renew in June 2002, we got a notice telling us about the new law, and that our regrestration was changed to a Permanent Trailer Identification (PTI) with a fee of $20 and to be renewed every five years for a fee of $10.
Our Pop-up measures 19'1" from hitch to rear bumper and it had a toilet and shower.
Now that we have a Hybrid, it is not classied as a CMP but a CCH and we have to pay a $94 regrestration fee every year.
Quote from: 6QuigsWe purchased a new Coleman Niagara in 2001, and it came with a licence plate that had to be renewed every year at a cost of $81.
Then when it came for time to renew in June 2002, we got a notice telling us about the new law, and that our regrestration was changed to a Permanent Trailer Identification (PTI) with a fee of $20 and to be renewed every five years for a fee of $10.
Our Pop-up measures 19'1" from hitch to rear bumper and it had a toilet and shower.
Now that we have a Hybrid, it is not classied as a CMP but a CCH and we have to pay a $94 regrestration fee every year.
IMO, that would be the law correctly applied. However, I still think that an argument
could be made that a hybrid qualifies as a "Tent trailer", thus qualifying for PTI.
The law states, "includes any tent trailer" and that is referring to what defines a "Camp Trailer" (which qualifies for PTI). It reads, "A 'camp trailer' is a vehicle designed to be used on a highway, capable of human habitation for camping or recreational purposes," it goes on to set size parameters but specifically and clearly states, "includes
any tent trailer" and that is why the 19' Coleman Niagara
tent trailer qualifies as a "Camp Trailer" even though it exceeds the 16' limit referred to in the rule.
I realize that a hybrid is pushing it and I wouldn't spend much time (and no $) trying to make a case out of it but the law is simply not clear and was written at a time when hybrids didn't exist (to my knowledge).
Quote from: waveryIMO, that would be the law correctly applied. However, I still think that an argument could be made that a hybrid qualifies as a "Tent trailer", thus qualifying for PTI.
The law states, "includes any tent trailer" and that is referring to what defines a "Camp Trailer" (which qualifies for PTI). It reads, "A 'camp trailer' is a vehicle designed to be used on a highway, capable of human habitation for camping or recreational purposes," it goes on to set size parameters but specifically and clearly states, "includes any tent trailer" and that is why the 19' Coleman Niagara tent trailer qualifies as a "Camp Trailer" even though it exceeds the 16' limit referred to in the rule.
I realize that a hybrid is pushing it and I wouldn't spend much time (and no $) trying to make a case out of it but the law is simply not clear and was written at a time when hybrids didn't exist (to my knowledge).
I have really opened a can o' worms...Thanks again for all of your input and personal stories regarding this. I am usually a pretty easy going, law abiding guy but this one thing I will not drop. I have the rest of the month until my registration is due; even If I end up paying the 'illegal' registration of $120 I plan on still fighting it.
The different vehicle body types on your registrations: There is either CMP or CCH. All of you need to check your body type on your registration to ensure they are correct according to the descriptions below. This is another mistake on my registration; they have it as a CCH body type.
CMP is a Camp Trailer
242. A "camp trailer" is a vehicle designed to be used on a highway, capable of human habitation for camping or recreational purposes, that does not exceed 16 feet in overall length from the foremost point of the trailer hitch to the rear extremity of the trailer body and does not exceed 96 inches in width and includes any tent trailer. Where a trailer telescopes for travel, the size shall apply to the trailer as fully extended. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a camp trailer shall not be deemed to be a trailer coach.
CCH is Trailer Coach
635. A "trailer coach" is a vehicle, other than a motor vehicle, designed for human habitation or human occupancy for industrial, professional, or commercial purposes, for carrying property on its own structure, and for being drawn by a motor vehicle. A "park trailer," as described in Section 18009.3 of the Health and Safety Code, is a trailer coach
Quote from: Weber GrillI have really opened a can o' worms...
What about a Chalet or an A-Liner? Technically they are not "Tent" trailers, but do fold down for transport so should qualify for a PTI.
How about a hard sided Palimno folding trailer, a Trailmanor, a High-Low, a small Tear Drop trailer? where do they all fall into the DMV's classification?
Wavery, I agree, I could argue that my Hybrid is a Tent Trailer and look for the PTI classification.
Reading their description of a CCH, A "trailer coach" is a vehicle, other than a motor vehicle, designed for human habitation or human occupancy for industrial, professional, or commercial purposes. Well, I use it only for recreational purposes, so none of the above applies, so yes, it should be a camp trailer :confused:
Quote from: waveryThe law states, "includes any tent trailer" and that is referring to what defines a "Camp Trailer" (which qualifies for PTI). It reads, "A 'camp trailer' is a vehicle designed to be used on a highway, capable of human habitation for camping or recreational purposes," it goes on to set size parameters but specifically and clearly states, "includes any tent trailer" and that is why the 19' Coleman Niagara tent trailer qualifies as a "Camp Trailer" even though it exceeds the 16' limit referred to in the rule. .
My sister called me today. She finally had time (during her lunch break of all times) to research what our gripe was about this issue. First she called and sited the 16' rule. I pointed out that further in the code it mentions the words "tent trailer." She stuck to the 16' rule. She called me back about two minutes later and read the tent trailer provision, and said no matter the size, a folding trailer, i.e. pop-up, is eligible for PTI plates. She said anyone who has been denied PTI needs to go to the DMV (oh joy!) and is eligible for a refund of whatever fees above the PTI fees they had to pay. Use this code as the evidence and have it in hand.
Remember, DMV folks are not perfect, and they have about a billion different codes and procedures to remember, not to mention the majority of their customers are nt really happy to be there. But shown the evidence of the "ANY TENT TRAILER" provision, I don't see how they can deny the PTI plates.
Quote from: waveryThis paragraph seems to hold the key:
"All trailers except park trailers and trailer coaches are subject to PTI."
In other words, a trailer that can be lived in, in a "trailer park" would not qualify for PTI if it exceeds those measurements. This seems to say that no "Tent Trailer" would ever qualify to live in a trailer park, no matter what the measurements.
After having 2 PUP's with PTI, and now an HTT with a regular plate, I was/am quite interested in this scenario.
From my reading of the laws & guidelines, the key phrase that was the only one that seemed to apply was if the camper "was designed for permanent [full time] habitation". Yes, those words were in the CA Vehicle Code. At the time, I had a chat with my wife about if I should fight a "regular" plate, since my warranty manual clearly stated that my HTT was not designed for more than (I think) 8 weeks/year... which is clearly not full time... like construction sites.
Sorry, Freedom_5, but further, my Niagara PUP (with PTI) had a fridge, sink, toilet and shower. Funny, my HTT has only those exact same things!
Unfortunately, but the CA Vehicle Code does not clearly disseminate this:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/commercial/cvra.htmPTI guaranteed to apply only if under 10,000 lbs.
*crap* I think they've upgraded their wording in the past 2 years. It now includes a designation for "
park trailer" instead of just
camp trailer and
trailer coach.
The net result, only a "camp trailer" (that is under 16 feet), can possibly get PTI. Funny, they gave my Niagara a PTI, after measuring it - a 14' box, but over 18' ball-to-hitch. Oddly, the law says any "tent trailer" gets PTI, but also says that when a camper "telescopes", the size applies to a camper that is fully extended. Even a lowly 10' popup box extends to over 16' when set up!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Otherwise, you are screwed.
Quote from: zamboniAfter having 2 PUP's with PTI, and now an HTT with a regular plate, I was/am quite interested in this scenario.
From my reading of the laws & guidelines, the key phrase that was the only one that seemed to apply was if the camper "was designed for permanent [full time] habitation". Yes, those words were in the CA Vehicle Code. At the time, I had a chat with my wife about if I should fight a "regular" plate, since my warranty manual clearly stated that my HTT was not designed for more than (I think) 8 weeks/year... which is clearly not full time... like construction sites.
Sorry, Freedom_5, but further, my Niagara PUP (with PTI) had a fridge, sink, toilet and shower. Funny, my HTT has only those exact same things!
Unfortunately, but the CA Vehicle Code does not clearly disseminate this:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/commercial/cvra.htm
PTI guaranteed to apply only if under 10,000 lbs.
*crap* I think they've upgraded their wording in the past 2 years. It now includes a designation for "park trailer" instead of just camp trailer and trailer coach.
The net result, only a "camp trailer" (that is under 16 feet), can possibly get PTI. Funny, they gave my Niagara a PTI, after measuring it - a 14' box, but over 18' ball-to-hitch. Oddly, the law says any "tent trailer" gets PTI, but also says that when a camper "telescopes", the size applies to a camper that is fully extended. Even a lowly 10' popup box extends to over 16' when set up!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Otherwise, you are screwed.
I have another appt at different DMV in the morning. I will be bringing my PUP, Title, Registration and the entire vehicle code printed out as it applies to PTI. I will post the results in approx 24 hours!
Quote from: zamboniThe net result, only a "camp trailer" (that is under 16 feet), can possibly get PTI. Funny, they gave my Niagara a PTI, after measuring it - a 14' box, but over 18' ball-to-hitch. Oddly, the law says any "tent trailer" gets PTI, but also says that when a camper "telescopes", the size applies to a camper that is fully extended. Even a lowly 10' popup box extends to over 16' when set up!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Otherwise, you are screwed.
This is not an accurate (or at least complete) statement. Please read the entire sentence in the Vehicle code (copied and pasted below). You omitted the most relevant (to tent trailers) part of the sentence.
The sentence reads:
242.
A "camp trailer" is a vehicle designed to be used on a highway, capable of human habitation for camping or recreational purposes, that does not exceed 16 feet in overall length from the foremost point of the trailer hitch to the rear extremity of the trailer body and does not exceed 96 inches in width and includes any tent trailer.
Where a trailer telescopes for travel, the size shall apply to the trailer as fully extended. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a camp trailer shall not be deemed to be a trailer coach.
*****(my note) the words "
and" and "
any" are big words.
The only thing that is unclear in this code is the defanition of a "tent trailer".
OK, I'll admit I had not read the previous pages clearly enough to realize you'd already debated the "ANY" wording.
That said, I had never heard of PTI back in 2000 when I bought my first little PUP (used). When I registered it, I got PTI plates and thought it was the coolest thing (and cheap).
A few years later, in a complicated family swap, I ended up with a Coleman Niagara (with TX plates). When I tried to register it in CA, they first tried to charge me for NORMAL plates. I stopped them, inquired, got the run-around about bathrooms, etc, and demanded they walk out to the parking lot and have a look. There, they saw the popped-down Niagara, and I protested that "it was meant to be lived in - it has a porta-potty, not a REAL bathroom". They relented and I got PTI plates.
That is why I was upset to not get PTI plates for my Hybrid - because, again, per the warranty, it is not meant to be lived in. If I stayed in it more than XX nights/year, I violated my warranty, which clearly stated I was not living in it.
I lost that battle. I now pay yearly (DEARLY) tags. Wah.
Under standard statutory interpretation, Wayne is right; any tent trailer, aka pop up or folding trailer, regardless of size qualifies for PTI. Our 2002 Coleman Sun Valley was 17.5' bumper to hitch ball and it had PTI plates. The 16' restriction in Veh. Code section 242 (//%22http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d01/vc242.htm%22) cited by Wayne would apply where a trailer telescopes for travel, and is not already included as a tent trailer. So if hybrids are argued to "telescope" then if they are greater than 16' when fully extended, they will not qualify for PTI. I can't think of a hybrid manufactured that is less than 16' so arguably hybrids never qualify for PTI.
BTW, the code cited by Wayne is merely a defintion section of the vehicle code. The actual code section concerning PTI plates is Veh. Code sec. 5014.1 (//%22http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d03/vc5014_1.htm%22) Unfortunately, our legislators did not see fit to maintain any kind of continuity or consistency between their verbage used in the defintions section and that used in other substantive sections. So Sec. 5014.1 only refers to "trailers" (see subdiv. (D)).
In any event, Weber Grill, your PU should qualify for PTI, regardless of what you may have been told. You might try enlisting the help of a local dealer if you can't get anywhere with DMV. They register trailers all the time in connection with their sales and may be able to help you get to the right person to get your PTI plates.
(None of the above should be construed as giving legal advice or creating any semblance of any attorney-client relationship.)
Quote from: griffsmom(None of the above should be construed as giving legal advice or creating any semblance of any attorney-client relationship.)
Sounds like any attorney to me.:D
Moose
Quote from: griffsmom(None of the above should be construed as giving legal advice or creating any semblance of any attorney-client relationship.)
Covered your proverbial keester on that one, eh Lori???
Quote from: oldmooseSounds like any attorney to me.:D
Moose
Quote from: Camping CoxesCovered your proverbial keester on that one, eh Lori???
welcome to America... ;)
Well, everyone I visited the Appointment only Poway DMV this morning (they have 2, the other is non appointments) and I am happy to announce I received my PTI plate.
It only took 20 minutes and $20 to convert the title and fix the body type on my title.
So, all you California PUP owners that don't have PTI plates, print out the code and definitions and make your appointments to take care of this if you are paying annual registrations.
I kept my cool (unlike the first time around) ;) . When I first checked in at the desk, the lady asked what I wanted to do so I explained my visit and she said "Does it have a sink?"
I answered politely "Why yes it does, and a shower, toilet and I can sleep in it!" She said "Well, it doesn't qualify" and I replied...
"Yes it does, would you like to read the code I brought with me?"
She just handed me the ticket and told me to have a seat.
I was called to the window and explained it again to the girl helping me and she didn't even know what a tent trailer was! She asked if I had it with me, I pointed out to the parking lot; she looked surprised that I had it with me. (I didn't tell her I tried this at a different office, didn't want to raise suspicion :yikes: )
The 'Supervisor' who reviewed the code with the girl commented that it was kind of vague but it made sense to her. They were impressed with 'All the homework' I did :confused: , what homework...I printed the vehicle code and read it and understood it.
So, thank you all for your inputs on this thread and get to your DMVs next week and take care of this, I must say I am a 'Happy Camper' (pun was intended)
Congrats Weber Grill!! Soooooo....now that you've got the registration all sorted out, when are you going to come camping with us? ;) I hear there's a lovely little rally at the end of June.... http://arveeclub.com/showthread.php?t=60832 (//%22http://arveeclub.com/showthread.php?t=60832%22) :D
Bump-Just want to ensure any CA PUP owners have the correct tags on their trailers.
Happy Camping!
Quote from: Weber GrillWavery,
This is exactly what I had printed (and some other things) and taken to the DMV and the CHP. I went to the DMV and at first they wouldn't even listen to what I had to say or read the code.
I finally had a manager review everything and he didn't know whether he could issue a PTI to me or not, he refered me to the CHP office.
I explained everything again to the CHP officer, and he to didn't understand exactly what type/size of trailers fell into the PTI description, he had a second office review and also pulled the DMV Manual which also stated basically the same thing as the actual code.
So, Wavery, how do you read the code?
I have a PUP that measures 19' from hitch to bumper, do I qualify the way you read the code?
Thanks for your input.
Thanks to everyone on this forum another PUP got PTI tags...yeahhhhh! My DMW has an outside inspector. He wrote on the form Tent Trailer after he started to write down travel trailer. I showed him the code and then he changed it to tent trailer. He did not know their was difference in the code regarding a tent trailer and a travel trailer. Inisde the clerk looked up all the codes and their was a only a "camp" trailer code. When she put that in the system with the axle count and weight the system would not take it. After much consulting with other staff (my tension was rising), they removed the axle and weight parameters and then the system took it. Thanks everybody!