Hi All
Just thought I'd share this with you.
We have a 2007 Popup with just the ice box and stove. I have the 12 volt battery running the interior lights.
We like to dry camp, so i wanted to be able to run my 12 volt cooler and a few goodies from the battery, but am worried about it having enough reserve power.
This weekend I bought a 15 watt solor panel (99.00)a charge controller (29.95),
hooked it to the battery, and put the panel on the roof. and hooked the cooler to the battery, the cooler ran for 6 hours, and it did not deplete the battery charge at all, in fact it ran the cooler and charged the battery.
So I guess it's going to work, now I am going to put 2 - 12 volt accessory outlets in the cupboard panels, so that I can just plug an accessory in, and wire up some connectors so I can just plug and unplug the charge controller and solar panel.
Anyone have any other thoughts.
Where did you get the solar panel? I was thinking of doing the same thing but the inexpensive panels I found were only 1.5 to 5 watts( not enough to bring the battery back up after a night of running the furnace.) $99 seems like a decent price.
Quote from: wernstriumphWhere did you get the solar panel? I was thinking of doing the same thing but the inexpensive panels I found were only 1.5 to 5 watts( not enough to bring the battery back up after a night of running the furnace.) $99 seems like a decent price.
I live in Canada, Canadian Tire sells them.. they are on sale this week for 99.00 marked down from 169.00.
//www.canadiantire.camike
Thanks for the link!:)
Wow! Nice score!
Do you know if they'll ship to the US if I buy from them online?
Quote from: mikehhfxThis weekend I bought a 15 watt solor panel (99.00)a charge controller (29.95),
hooked it to the battery, and put the panel on the roof. and hooked the cooler to the battery, the cooler ran for 6 hours, and it did not deplete the battery charge at all, in fact it ran the cooler and charged the battery.
Anyone have any other thoughts.
Yep,
A 15 W solar panel will output 1A after the charge controller if your lucky. I don't understand how you could have powered the cooler let alone charged the battery. What brand cooler do you have? The Coleman PowerChill has a 4A supply although it probably doesn't max out at 4A.
45W for $199 here
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90599And they have a charge controller for $30 too
Wow! That's a nice setup, and 3 times the power for $100 extra! Geez.....any other better offers out there?
i got mine about a yr ago.. and i say it works ok...
now i just want a 200amp setup so i can run a couple of 120volt
applications...
Quote from: wavemakeri got mine about a yr ago.. and i say it works ok...
now i just want a 200amp setup so i can run a couple of 120volt
applications...
I think you mean 200W set-up but yes, IMHO, that would be a nice set-up.
A 200W array would give you about 80A of charge on a
good day in full sun. That's about the same as running a 12A charger off of a generator for 6 1/2 hours or a 25A charger for about 3 hours.
I think that a 100W array would be a good starter set-up with the ability to add another 100W if you feel the need. A decent 100W array would cost you about $600. That's a lot lees than a decent generator but it is a lot less reliable too. There are pros & cans to both.
mikehhfx that 15W array is what one might use to stabilize a battery while not in use. It certainly is not adequate for charging a battery and certainly does not require a controller unless you are going to leave it on the camper in storage.
http://www.partsonsale.com/campers2.html (//%22http://www.partsonsale.com/campers2.html%22)
Quote from: chasd60http://www.partsonsale.com/campers2.html
Thanks for the link :book: . We are considering solar for our home in Fallbrook California. There is a lot of helpful info on that site. :D
They claim to be able to get us into a 7000W array for $24,335.69. If they can do that, they've got a sale. I'll keep you posted.
Quote from: chasd60Yep,
A 15 W solar panel will output 1A after the charge controller if your lucky. I don't understand how you could have powered the cooler let alone charged the battery. What brand cooler do you have? The Coleman PowerChill has a 4A supply although it probably doesn't max out at 4A.
45W for $199 here
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90599
And they have a charge controller for $30 too
The Cooler i have is a Koolatron Thermoelectric cooler using the latest Peltier Devices, if that helps, the Av adapter says it outputs 13v at 5A. The solar panel states it puts out , as you said 15w at 1A. I have not answer for how it worked, I'm no electrical engineer, all I know is that I checked the voltage on the battery with my volt meter before a hooked it all up and check it regularly, and the charge went up and the cooler kept running.
Mike H
Quote from: mikehhfxThe Cooler i have is a Koolatron Thermoelectric cooler using the latest Peltier Devices, if that helps, the Av adapter says it outputs 13v at 5A. The solar panel states it puts out , as you said 15w at 1A. I have not answer for how it worked, I'm no electrical engineer, all I know is that I checked the voltage on the battery with my volt meter before a hooked it all up and check it regularly, and the charge went up and the cooler kept running.
Mike H
I'm totally confused... and I am an electrician.. not saying it dosen't work, but your cooler should be drawing 65 watts ( 13v X 5a= 65 watts). 15w @1a is illogical. Since watts is volts X amps, you would have 15volts at 1 amp output on your panel. The web site says 15watts at 12 volts which should =1.25 amp(watts/amps)... if you divide volts into watts it drops down to.80 amp....either way no where near enough to run you cooler and charge a battery...What probally happened is you were reading the voltage drop with the panel operating and getting a 12volt output. Anyway...I'm glad it works for you.
Quote from: Nemesis56I'm totally confused... and I am an electrician.. not saying it dosen't work, but your cooler should be drawing 65 watts ( 13v X 5a= 65 watts). 15w @1a is illogical. Since watts is volts X amps, you would have 15volts at 1 amp output on your panel. The web site says 15watts at 12 volts which should =1.25 amp(watts/amps)... if you divide volts into watts it drops down to.80 amp....either way no where near enough to run you cooler and charge a battery...What probally happened is you were reading the voltage drop with the panel operating and getting a 12volt output. Anyway...I'm glad it works for you.
When it comes to solar panels you have to employ funny math.
I have 80W panels that are rated as 12V nominal. My 80W/12V should equal 6.7A but............................
The 80W comes from 17.3V output which is 80W/17.3=~4.63A
17.3V going thru a typical pwm charge controller will drop the voltage to 13.5V or so and that really equates to 13.5X4.63A which only equals 62.5W. Being DC, you can't step down the voltage and step up the current like you can with AC.
Panel voltage output is temperature dependent and derated with heat. Make one that outputs 17.3V at 75F and you still have usable ouput when the temperature of the silicon is 130F or hotter in the direct sun.
Whe you use a 15W panel with a big load or a large battery deficit, you can bypass the charge controller and maximize the total power. Just keep track of the battery voltage during this process.
I think "wavery" and I have had this discussion in the past. Add a switch to bypass the charge controller. When the battery is down 30AH and you are only producing 1AH, you will be pretty safe to let it run all day long without a charge controller. The internal battery resistance with the charge deficit won't allow the battery voltage to get too high.
I do know that my 160W total with a MPPT charge controller and two 110Ah batteries wired in parallel allow me to pretty much use power at will. I am the only one in my camper that even worries about conservation. It seems like we use more power leaving things on and unused than we do while using them. That is why I got rid of the 2.8A lights and installed .4-.5A fluorescent lights.
Quote from: mikehhfxThe Cooler i have is a Koolatron Thermoelectric cooler using the latest Peltier Devices, if that helps, the Av adapter says it outputs 13v at 5A. The solar panel states it puts out , as you said 15w at 1A. I have not answer for how it worked, I'm no electrical engineer, all I know is that I checked the voltage on the battery with my volt meter before a hooked it all up and check it regularly, and the charge went up and the cooler kept running.
Mike H
It is possible to have a surface voltage above the actual battery voltage even with a reduction in Amp/hours. Remove the charge and allow the load to continue for 3 minutes or so, then recheck the voltage. This removes the surface charge and gives you a more accurate reading of battery voltage.
Thanks Chas.... now that I do understand and it makes perfect sense.
Quote from: chasd60It is possible to have a surface voltage above the actual battery voltage even with a reduction in Amp/hours. Remove the charge and allow the load to continue for 3 minutes or so, then recheck the voltage. This removes the surface charge and gives you a more accurate reading of battery voltage.
Yep. My point exactally, just not as eloquent as you.
Quote from: chasd60It is possible to have a surface voltage above the actual battery voltage even with a reduction in Amp/hours. Remove the charge and allow the load to continue for 3 minutes or so, then recheck the voltage. This removes the surface charge and gives you a more accurate reading of battery voltage.
Ok, Thanks I'll recheck it that is, WHEN and IF the sun returns...
Mike H
Quote from: waveryThanks for the link :book: . We are considering solar for our home in Fallbrook California. There is a lot of helpful info on that site. :D
They claim to be able to get us into a 7000W array for $24,335.69. If they can do that, they've got a sale. I'll keep you posted.
WOW! That's a remarkable deal! I recently was collecting bids for a grid-intertie system for my home in Long Beach. The least expensive was A 4.7KW for $39,000+, using high efficiency panels to minimize surface area. But it still seemed too pricy. Under $25k is more inline with what I was expecting! And for 7Kw!
We picked up a 13 watt solar charger and used it Memorial Day weekend while dry camping. Kept our Group 27 battery working for the entire 4 days and it still was working well when we left camp. Used the bunk end fan/lights, stove hood light and ran the water pump for dishes and showers for the four days. DH insists that the solar panel helped a lot, considering what a battery pig our hybrid is.
Quote from: waveryThanks for the link :book: . We are considering solar for our home in Fallbrook California. There is a lot of helpful info on that site. :D
They claim to be able to get us into a 7000W array for $24,335.69. If they can do that, they've got a sale. I'll keep you posted.
We have a rebate system here in Maine, but no where near what you have in California.
The bigger expense for us in the northeast is heating costs. I will be selling my present home and building a new one in about 7-8 years. We plan on using a lot of solar thermal and radiant floor heating.
If you build new and economize on your electrical apparatus, the electric costs are not too bad.
Quote from: chasd60We have a rebate system here in Maine, but no where near what you have in California.
The bigger expense for us in the northeast is heating costs. I will be selling my present home and building a new one in about 7-8 years. We plan on using a lot of solar thermal and radiant floor heating.
If you build new and economize on your electrical apparatus, the electric costs are not too bad.
$24K is still a lot of dough to pay for electricity. I would like to see a payback period of about 10 years.
If I take that $24K and keep it in savings at 5% interest, I would have $39K at the end of 120 months. That is the bottom line cost of that system. That means that system is costing me $325 per month, over a period of 10 years. if I were to finance that purchase, the cost would be even higher.
This nonsense of amortizing the cost over 40 years is just not realistic. Not only will it
not last that long (nor will I :p ) but it will be obsolete as a system in 20 years (IMHO).
The other consideration is the probability of nuclear power being safer and expanding. That could actually decrease the price of power or at least stabilizing it.
I don't know what electicity cost in CA but I found this.
In West Virginia, the average cost of electricity was $0.07/kWh as of May, 2006.
Maine is over 0.15 per kWh
Quote from: chasd60Maine is over 0.15 per kWh
When determining the $ per kw, you can't use the advertised rate. You must actually take 12 months worth of bills, ad 'em up & divide by the number of total kw used for that year. You may find that the
TRUE rate is much higher than the stated rate. They tend to ad all sorts of fees and taxes that can make the electric bill near double (In some areas). The stated rate means very little when calculating the cost of your system.
The main reason that you need to know
how many kw that you use per month is to determin the size solar system that you require.
boy did I open a can a worms, sorry to have this subject stray so far off topic
Quote from: mikehhfxboy did I open a can a worms, sorry to have this subject stray so far off topic
:book: The topic is, "Solar Panel Addition".
We didn't stray..................... :p welllllllllll maybe a little :sombraro: .
Quote from: wavery:book: The topic is, "Solar Panel Addition".
We didn't stray..................... :p welllllllllll maybe a little :sombraro: .
Actually I learned a couple of things in the process.
Well so did I , learn a few things.. I was just hoping the moderator did not get bent over more on home stuff than Rv stuff..
Solar power is solar power, no matter where you use it. If you intend to use it on your RV, it's best to know all you can so that you don't have unrealistic expectations and become disappointed if it doesn't perform as anticipated.
I lived off of solar power for over 10 years on my yacht (full time). I've got a pretty good handle on what I can expect from it. I've used it from Maine to the Antarctic but mostly in the tropics where it is the most efficient.
Quote from: mikehhfxWell so did I , learn a few things.. I was just hoping the moderator did not get bent over more on home stuff than Rv stuff..
It's pretty loose around here. Even if something is off topic, the thread could get moved to the Campfire topic, where everything but the three G's (God, Guns, Gov't) and "it" are on topic. Even then, they only cut it off if we go at each other's throats.
Austin
I bought the same panel as mikehhfx but I didn't get the charge controller.
In full sun I read 25 volts on the panel and .75 or so amps.
I hooked it up to my battery and it dropped to 13~ or so volts and still .75-79 amps.
Because of the low current, do you think I really need a charge controller. I can leave it on for a few days and it will never overcharge my battery, no?
Quote from: fleagalbaumI bought the same panel as mikehhfx but I didn't get the charge controller.
In full sun I read 25 volts on the panel and .75 or so amps.
I hooked it up to my battery and it dropped to 13~ or so volts and still .75-79 amps.
Because of the low current, do you think I really need a charge controller. I can leave it on for a few days and it will never overcharge my battery, no?
You are correct. You do not need a charge controller for that small panel. The charge controller will actually cost you power to run. At .75A - 1.0A for 6-8 hours a day that's less than 8 amps, you will never over charge the battery unless you leave it, unattended for several days or you put it on a fully charged battery and have "0" draw on the battery. Even if you do, just put a multimeter on it once in a while. If it gets to 14v (which it won't) disconnect it.
The main thing, when using solar panels, is to check the water and make sure that it doesn't get down to the plates.
Only use distilled water.
mine is a maintenance free battery. I cant add water.
My next set up when this one fails is to get some golf cart ones from the local golf shop.
Quote from: fleagalbaummine is a maintenance free battery. I cant add water.
My next set up when this one fails is to get some golf cart ones from the local golf shop.
You can probably still add water. All "maintenance free" means is that the water that evaporates in the battery is (suposedly) circulated back into the battery. It doesn't work 100% though. I haven't seen a battery yet that you couldn't get the tops off of the cells.
Think twice about getting 2x 6v golf cart batteries.
If you are going to go with 2 batteries, I would recommend sticking with 2x 12v batteries. If one goes bad, you just disconnect it and you still have 1 - 12v battery and everything should still work.
With 2x 6v batteries (=12v) If one battery goes bad, you have less than 12v and nothing will work.
QuotePosted by wavery - Yesterday at 10:22 PM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by fleagalbaum
mine is a maintenance free battery. I cant add water.
My next set up when this one fails is to get some golf cart ones from the local golf shop.
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You can probably still add water. All "maintenance free" means is that the water that evaporates in the battery is (suposedly) circulated back into the battery. It doesn't work 100% though. I haven't seen a battery yet that you couldn't get the tops off of the cells.
Some maintenance free batteries have the tops glued on. I've seen some tops that have been broken when people have tried to get them off. Most of the AC/Delco batteries are like this even the deep cycle ones.
Quote from: aw738Some maintenance free batteries have the tops glued on. I've seen some tops that have been broken when people have tried to get them off. Most of the AC/Delco batteries are like this even the deep cycle ones.
Delco makes lousy batteries anyway (IMHO). However, I had a Delco Maintenance Free Marine battery on my PU when I first got it. The battery covers are flush on the top and I did get them off (with a little struggling). The battery water was below the plates and the battery wouldn't hold a charge. A hydrometer quickly revealed 2 cells with low specific gravity. That battery was toast.
I took the 2-year-old battery back to Costco, only to find out that they didn't carry them any more (they had too high failure rate).
When I worked for GM dealerships, we were constantly struggling with battery failures (Delco is a division of GM).
Quote from: waveryYou can probably still add water. All "maintenance free" means is that the water that evaporates in the battery is (suposedly) circulated back into the battery. It doesn't work 100% though. I haven't seen a battery yet that you couldn't get the tops off of the cells.
.
hehehe...We must be kindred spirits. Same here. Once you pull off the decals and stickers, there's usually a place to add water. Nothing a thin blade screwdriver or a pocket knife can't past. Besides, if I don't fix it, I usually screw it up so bad nobdy can.
Quote from: waveryDelco makes lousy batteries anyway (IMHO). However, I had a Delco Maintenance Free Marine battery on my PU when I first got it. The battery covers are flush on the top and I did get them off (with a little struggling). The battery water was below the plates and the battery wouldn't hold a charge. A hydrometer quickly revealed 2 cells with low specific gravity. That battery was toast.
I took the 2-year-old battery back to Costco, only to find out that they didn't carry them any more (they had too high failure rate).
When I worked for GM dealerships, we were constantly struggling with battery failures (Delco is a division of GM).
What division? I worked for GMC before joining EMD.
Quote from: Nemesis56What division? I worked for GMC before joining EMD.
I went to GMI (General Motors Institute) 1973-1975. I was a Factory Service rep for 2 years then I was hired as Service Manager for Felix Chevrolet in downtown Los Angeles. I found out, that's where the $ is. I then went on to become Parts and Service Director for all of the owner's 8 dealerships.
In '84 I decided it was either lose my mind or buy a sailboat and sail around the world. I chose the latter. Sailed around the world from '84-'88 then settled in Hawaii for 6 years (still living on the yacht). I was hired as Service Manager for Mike Salta Pontiac in Honolulu for 6 years, then we left to sail around the world again from '94-'98.
When I got back to California, I was asked by my x-boss to open a AutoNation USA used car mega-store. Then AutoNations pulled the plug on all of the used car mega-stores (nation-wide). I worked my a$$ off getting that store up and running. I vowed to never go back to the auto industry again.
I now manage an apt building in Beverly Hills. I love it. We go camping whenever we want and our cost of living is literally "Zero". I do what I want in the building and get paid a pretty decent wage which we sock away. I make my own hours and my commute is wonderful :p . Our expendable income is about the same as it was when I was making $100K+ per year, only we don't spend it.
Can't wait to go camping next weekend. :sombraro:
Quote from: waveryCan't wait to go camping next weekend. :sombraro:
I started out working for a Pontiac Dealer in the early 70's. Swicthed to GMC at the urging of our factory rep in the mid 80's because everybody was terrified of diesels. Left GMC in 1997 to work for EMD locomotive division and never looked back. I was born to be a railroader.