Catalytic heater review

[austinado16]

My new-to-me Olympian Catalytic Safety Heater arrived today so I set the PUP up in camp-backyard tonight and fired up the heater.

It gives off a slight odor during initial lighting, sort of a "a stove is on" smell, but that goes away pretty quick.  It may be due to the heater being stored without a cover on it for a long time and the catalytic "mat" getting dust on it, so this may improve with a couple more heat cycles.....I'm not sure.

Instructions say after lighting (piezo electric spark) to run it on high for 10min, and then after that you can adjust the heat control low-medium-high as you like.  Low is something like 3,200btu.  Medium is about 4,200btu. High is 5,800btu.  

It quietly sat there and warmed the camper nicely.  I've got a set of the portable feet and a cover coming for it.  I'll "T" into the propane line for the stove, which is under the sink and run about 6' of flex hose with a quick coupling at the end.  That way when not in use, the hose can be coiled up under the sink and the heater can be stowed.

Was considering a Mr. Buddy until this came along for $40 (they're $300-$400 new) so hopefully it'll make a nice addition to Fall and Spring camping.  It looks like this, but is the previous model in off-white with fake woodgrain painted around the base.

[austinado16]

Update:

Went out to the PUP last night at about 12:30am and fired up the heater just to see what it would do in a completely cold soaked camper.  Temp inside the camper was 57*F on the digit thermometer.  Camper has an 11' box with queen bunk and twin bunk so it's about 185 square feet.

It took about 45min to warm the camper 10*F and in an hour the temp had come up to just hitting 69*F.  This was without any battery powered fan running to circulate/stir up the air.  I just wanted to see what the heater would do on it's own.

Curtainly not a good heater for taking the chill off in the morning, the furnace will do a much better and faster job of that for sure.  But I think this will be an ideal heater for starting at around 8-9 o'clock at night and maintain a comfortable temp silently and without the furnace running off and on all night long.

[AustinBoston]

Do you know if the heat "stratified?"  

Often, when there are no blowers, a heater will add 25

[austinado16]

I purposely did the test without the use of my 10" O2Cool D-cell battery powered fan because I just wanted to see what the heater could do, on it's own, in a cold soaked camper, with the setting on high.  The 10" fan moving the air around would have made a huge difference.

As far as it's heat output goes, using my infrared temp gun pointing at the "mat" I get readings in the 700-800*F range.  Put yourself in front of the heater and it's just cranking out the radiant heat.  It was warming the cabinets and the floor out in front of it, and those intern were spreading their heat to the rest of the camper.  Had I left it running for more than 1 hour (and had I wanted to stay up later than 1:30am) it would have brought the whole camper up to 70 something I'm sure.....and then I could have possibly backed the heat down to medium.

There is a huge amount of convective heat coming off the top.  If you put your hand or face over the top, it is really cranking out the heat.  As far as which output is more, convective or radiant........mmmm......I'm guessing radiant, but both were very hot.  It's just that the radiant goes right into you and objects, I think that's the most pronounced just by it's nature and the huge surface area of the "mat."

The unit gives proximity warnings of 18" from a ceiling, 4" to the sides and floor, and 30" to the front.  Zero inches to the back and it can be flush mounted into a wall, or suface mounted on a wall.

I called Olympain today and talked to their tech dept.  They said there are no safety issues with the heater, just leave a window cracked open so it's not using up oxygen inside the camper (probably a moot point in a PUP) and that it gives off about as much Carbon Monoxide (the dangerous gas) as an infant.

[brainpause]

I called Olympain today and talked to their tech dept.  They said there are no safety issues with the heater, just leave a window cracked open so it's not using up oxygen inside the camper (probably a moot point in a PUP) and that it gives off about as much Carbon Monoxide (the dangerous gas) as an infant.

They TOLD you that it gives off "about as much CO as an infant"???  :yikes:

I hope they know there business better than that. Or else, I hope the statement is totally accurate, because an infant gives off ZERO carbon monoxide!! Matter of fact, an elephant gives off zero carbon monoxide.

Larry

[austinado16]

They TOLD you that it gives off "about as much CO as an infant"???  :yikes:

I hope they know there business better than that. Or else, I hope the statement is totally accurate, because an infant gives off ZERO carbon monoxide!! Matter of fact, an elephant gives off zero carbon monoxide.

Larry

Mmmm....good point!  Got my carbon gasses mixed up there.  I was asking him about Carbon Monoxide, and obviously his answer is wonkey.  What he said was, "Anything that burns gives off some carbon monoxide, but these produce very little. About as much as an infant exhales."

I guess I should give 'em a call again on Monday, eh?

[austinado16]

Been doing a bit more research and found this quote on a catalytic heater manufacturer's website:

"...catalytic heaters are carefully designed to produce the most efficient heat possible. The only by-products of combustion (other than heat) are carbon dioxide and water vapor. Carbon monoxide, a result of inefficient combustion, is not measurable."

I had read elsewhere that they didn't produce CO (carbon monoxide) but hadn't been able to confirm it until reading the above quote.

[AustinBoston]

Been doing a bit more research and found this quote on a catalytic heater manufacturer's website:

"...catalytic heaters are carefully designed to produce the most efficient heat possible. The only by-products of combustion (other than heat) are carbon dioxide and water vapor. Carbon monoxide, a result of inefficient combustion, is not measurable."

I had read elsewhere that they didn't produce CO (carbon monoxide) but hadn't been able to confirm it until reading the above quote.

I hope they have an O2 sensor anyway.  I can't imagine even the most efficient hydrocarbon burining device not producing carbon MONoxide if it ran low on oxygen.

Austin

[austinado16]

Their new models ("Wave 3, Wave 6, and Wave do, but I'm not sure about this earlier "6100" version.  I'll find out tomorrow when I call them back.  Either way, it has a lable telling how many square inches of window/vent opening it needs so that it's getting plenty of 02.  Pretty simple to raise the roof vent and inch and lift the screen door's lower panel one knotch.

[chasd60]

I'm  gonna venture you forgot the 2....as in CO2?

An infant does give off CO2.

 

But 5800 BTU's is based upon actual output, so 5800 BTU's at 96% efficiency means you are only losing 4% from 100% efficiency and total out is still 5800 BTU's.

[Mike Up]

I don't consider this heater very safe and would never try to sleep with it runninng. IMO, a Mr. Heater Buddy heater is much more safer with it's O2 shutoff which protects against suffication and carbon monoxide which is formed from low oxygen causing incomplete combustion in the heater. If they are operated correctly to a T, it looks like they could be safe, but with no safeguards to protect yourself, I stopped using my Catalytic heater.
 
See dangers here
 
Have a good one.

[austinado16]

So what I see in that report is that catalytic heaters are safe if used correctly and the catalytic media doesn't break down.

The only time the catalytic heaters start to increase their emmision levels is when they are starved of oxygen.  Gee, that's a no brainer.

Also, a month or so ago, we had a follow up to this thread and I got through to an engineer working for the company that builds the Wave Catalytic Safety Heaters.

He confirmed what their output was in PPM (as you see in that report you reference).  If you look at that as a percentage, it's extremely low.......  .000068%CO.

[Mike Up]

So what I see in that report is that catalytic heaters are safe if used correctly and the catalytic media doesn't break down.[/font]

The only time the catalytic heaters start to increase their emmision levels is when they are starved of oxygen. Gee, that's a no brainer.

Also, a month or so ago, we had a follow up to this thread and I got through to an engineer working for the company that builds the Wave Catalytic Safety Heaters.

He confirmed what their output was in PPM (as you see in that report you reference). If you look at that as a percentage, it's extremely low....... .000068%CO.

[/font]

When the catalytic heater was tested in a closed room (ACH ~ 0), the CO concentration in the chamber ranged from 24 ppm to 27 ppm at an O2 concentration of 19.4 percent. During the same tests, the CO concentrations ranged from 101 ppm to 110 ppm at an O2 concentration of 15.1 percent.[/font]

Tests with the catalytic heater at low air exchange rates showed that the catalytic heater was capable of operating at much lower O2 concentrations. During the closed room test, the O2 concentration was depleted to 8.8 % . The test was terminated early due to the build-up of hydrocarbons in the chamber. When the test was terminated, the oxygen concentration was still decreasing.

Catalytic heaters are being marketed as safe for indoor use. Because the catalytic heaters can deplete the O2 concentration to low levels, CPSC staff is concerned with the possible health effects from reduced oxygen concentrations. Table 3 summaries the health effects associated with reduced oxygen concentrations. The degree of hypoxia is further exacerbated by the moderate CO concentration and by an increase in the carbon dioxide concentration that accompanied the depletion of oxygen

Oxygen Concentration (%) Symptoms

20.9 Normal concentration in the air at sea level

12 - 16 Breathing and pulse rate increased, muscular coordination slightly disturbed

10

[austinado16]

Mike, no offense but this argument is pointless.  

It's the same argument as the "guns kill people and should be banned" argument.  Or the ol' "don't play with matches" and "don't run with scissors" and on and on ad nausium.

Note that they tested the heater in a ridiculous condition.....a closed room.  Sort of like crash testing cars at 100mph and then telling people the cars are obviously dangerous because look what happened to the test dummy.

Note also that they only had one documented occurance of death caused by the heater......can't remember if it was a cat heater or an infrared.

And the argument of "What if someone closed the windows an doors."  Come on man......What if someone loosened your propane lines, or your lugnuts, or pulled out your wheel chalks, or cranked down your roof.

None of this is a valid argument.  If these heaters were killing people:
1) We'd be hearing about it
2) They'd stop selling them after getting their a$$es sued off in a class action
3) You wouldn't hear from people who use them with success.

Everything is as deadly as you want to make it........and there's line of folks willing to argue just how deadly.

Guess I'll drive over to the shooting range now for some gun play and to really ramp up the fun, I won't wear my seatbelt there or back.

[AustinBoston]

Note that they tested the heater in a ridiculous condition.....a closed room.

If that's ridiculous, just wait till you see how stupid real people are.  The fact is, they demonstrated that the device did not perform as specified, and failed to shut off when O2 levels began to deplete.  Whether the window was open or not was irrelevant.

None of this is a valid argument.  If these heaters were killing people:
1) We'd be hearing about it
2) They'd stop selling them after getting their a$$es sued off in a class action
3) You wouldn't hear from people who use them with success.

Hundreds of people a year are killed by CO from failed home heating systems.  1) I don't hear much about it; 2) I know of no class action suit and people are still heating their homes with gas, propane, and oil; and 3) Millions of people use them with succes.

But having said that, fire is at least 10 and perhaps 100 times the danger from these heaters that CO is.  Fire in a pop-up will kill you just as dead as CO.

Honestly, if you think running one with the windows closed is ridiculous (because it says in the instructions not to), then why isn't running one while sleeping ridiculous (because it says in the instructions not to)?

Austin