I was at work yesterday and over heard a few people laughing and talking about our military Soldiers in the Gulf. They thought it was funny that the men and women were running out of toliet paper. ( this was something I didn t know) To me they really showed how ignorant they were. Just because they don t support the war doesn t give them the right to talk about the ones who are at war putting there life on the line for all of us here at home. If we didn t have these Soldiers and everyone else in the past fighting for us, we wouldn t be free at all. I wanted to tell these women to pack up, move to Iraq, live by the rules of the women in that Country and see if they felt the same way when they came back. But, I didn t, I just looked at them and walked out of the room. I hope and pray that we can all join together and make the same bond that we had after 9/11. We all have to keep this fresh in our minds so that we never forget.
Mahaffey-Family
QuoteI wanted to tell these women to pack up
why didn`t you? no offense intended, but maybe if our voices are HEARD, they will be REMEMBERED. i support your opinion, and hope we all remember that the *other* opinion has been HEARD rather loudly lately, lets do the same [;)]
Mahaffey-Familyhear you you.. before this gets locked may I saw the way people are treating our military makes me sick... All these protest s and people screaming abouut oil?? Where did oil get mixed into this?? Gee I thought it was about missles, and a maniac who thinks we should be floating at the bottom of the ocean!! Just makes me sick.. It has been starting to look like Vietman all over again.. Nice touch to our guys (and ladies) who get paid like 24k a year to take a shot for our safety so we can tell them they are just over their to get oil!!!!! [:@]
Firefyter-EmtSadly, it took us a long time to learn that while the war, excuse me, police action, in Vietnam was wrong, our men and women fighting in it were not--they were merely doing their job, and bravely I might add, despite what their own personal opinions may have been. Clearly, those women you heard have forgotten that lesson. It doesn t matter whether we agree with President Bush on this or not, our military deserves our respect and thanks.
just my humble .02--not meant to offend or start a riot
Mahaffey-FamilyWhen will I learn to keep my mouth shut ? before I know I will be banned one day.
Anybody who doesn t think this guy should go, I can give you a copy of the voice recordings of our runs to the shelters in Riyadh during the Gulf war.
I SAW the scuds flying over my head with my own eyes, I saw the buildings (residential and corporate and governmental) which were destroyed by those missiles. How would you like to see a building disappear where your mother/sister/brother/father was sleeping last night when you kised them goodbye ? I have seen aprtment buildings housing hundreds disappear [:(] No you did not hear about those, anybody who tried to take a picture or record it had their equipment confiscated !
Anybody who thinks this guy is peaceful and is innocent or is not upto anything bad is either high, or doesn t live in this world.
These is too much to say ........ I will keep just quiet.
Oh by the way, more US trucks and military equiopment is being released from the ports into Turkey towards the border.
Parliament is expected to take a second vote to let foreign troops to operate from within Turkey some time next week or after. With the backing of the army (yeah they have a say in these matters, we can discuss that seperately) it is expected to pass this time with a lot less resistance.
Now I will keep quiet [:@]
Mahaffey-FamilyI would have promptly removed all the toilet paper from the rest rooms & storage at work (kept my own stash [:D]) and sent it in my next " care package" to your son.
Some people don t understand the privleges they have to enjoy and take for granted that are earned by others.[:(]
May God Bless your sons and keep them safe.
Mahaffey-FamilyAt risk of again being misunderstood, I ll say that many of the people who are not in favor of this war, like me, are not against the men and women who have gone to war to do their duty to country. I come from a family whose men were all at one time gone to fight, and I deeply respect the courage and commitment that took them there. But, I don t respect the president who is rushing us into this war, while so many other issues are at stake. Our economy is terrible and our national deficit is outragious. Korea also looms on another front, health care for our citizens is in a really bad state and other matters call for attention. My personal feeling is that Bush is too obligated to his oil industry friends and contributors. We may have gone into this war anyway, for very good reasons, those stated above. But, I think that this has hurried us along. I will be saddened by each and every casualty that this war might bring us, and am praying for every man and woman there. I, like others have lost family members and friends in every conflict we ve been in since WWII, and have supported those soldiers. I do not support GW Bush in his effort to save face for his father, and to add MidEast oil reserves to the American economy. I am not saying these things to disagree with any of you, only to state my own feelings about this.
Toni
Mahaffey-FamilyI have to say I totally agree with Toni. While I don t agree with the way the president is handleing things (I do think something needs to be done, but by the UN, not us alone) and question his motives. I do not condem the soliders. While I have not found my way to a protest yet, it might happen....but I d be protesting Bush s actions, not that of the soldier s.
Mahaffey-FamilySorry, but I have to disagree, strongly! I feel that our President and his security council know FAR more than we do here in Vermont, Texas or whereever! I trust them far more than I trust Saddam and that s really the bottom line. Eight to ten months ago every news magazine you read was talking about how Saddam was using chemicals and Bios on the Kurds and how only the US had the power to intervene. Why all the second guessing now? You think it s about oil? How much oil comes from Iraq during the UN sanctions? If it s getting through isn t that more proof of failure of the UN?
Yesterday or today, the cheif inspector " naturally" forgot to brief the UN on the fact that Iraq has far more and better unmanned Delivery Agents than we thought! This guy isn t going to go away by our hiding our head in the sand!
That s MY humble opinion! I respect YOUR opinion, but you haven t convinced me.
Mahaffey-FamilyI back President Bush 100%. Saddam must be stopped. I have no doubt that we are doing what is right.
Never have I felt more supportive of a US President. There is just something about George W. I feel he is sincere and truely has Americas best interests at stake.
Proud to be American~
CathyAnn
Mahaffey-Family,
Mahaffey-FamilyI have to say it s hilarious, they can ship tanks but not toilet paper. Same way the brain trust is now realizing that there are sand storms in the desert and maybe they should figure out something to give the troups.
I put up with the same B*llSH*t 35 years ago. Took them 10 years to realize swamps rot stuff.
I feel sorry for the troops that have to put up with the stuff, but at least now they re all volunteers and not draftee s. You can bet there s toilet paper in the officers latrine, or someone will catch hell.
Mahaffey-Family" Hurrying" in to war? Seriously? Hmmm...well, back in January 2002, there were official calls for him to disarm. How many more years should we let him have, to torture his own people? I don t approve of standing around while he gasses his own people to death.
I thoroughly support our troops and our president in this endevour.
Mahaffey-FamilyI have to agree. Our country will always have a huge nat l deficite, health care issues, etc. Bill Clinton should ve been doing what Bush is doing now when he was in office. I definatly support Bush, this is for the overall protection of our country, and since Saddam isn t capable of telling the truth about anything we need to deal with this.
I wish we didn t have to go to war, but thank God that when the call goes out - we have awesome men and women who answer. They have my full support!
mowalker
QuoteORIGINAL: mowalker
I would have promptly removed all the toilet paper from the rest rooms & storage at work (kept my own stash [:D]) and sent it in my next " care package" to your son.
Some people don t understand the privleges they have to enjoy and take for granted that are earned by others.[:(]
May God Bless your sons and keep them safe.
I really like this idea[;)]. As for going to war, I feel that it would be wrong to go to war unless we absolutely had to, but at the same time I think that its necissary to prevent Iraq from becoming any stronger in their attack against us.
My dad told me the other night that Iraq was ranked as having the 4th largest army in the world. I have no proof that what my dad told me is true, nor do I know where the US ranks in the scheme of things. What I do know is that people like Saddam are not going to change. They only work at being more and more destrutctive and obtaining more and more power. Killing thousands and thousands of people means nothing to this guy (even if the people are his own people).
Do we really want to wait until this guy has enough " power" that we underestimate him? I agree with the proposition of taking him out before he is allowed to get any stronger. I think that the president is doing the right thing.
My support is with President Bush and my thoughts, prayers, and utmost Thanks are with all of those brave soldiers who are willing to fight to protect us.
Mahaffey-FamilySorry, I was going to be done.. But RUSHING??!! It has been 12 years!! You have got to be kidding Toni... I don t mean to be snipe, but you have to remember, this is not a " new" war/attack.. this is a continuation of the Gulf war.. We never signed a peace treaty, we halted military action against them with the agreement they were going to disarm!! Well I am sorry if Clinton kinda forgot about all that while they were working on a plan to kill us! But this is a joke that has gone on way too long and our country man s lives have paid a dear price for it.. What is the latest " Woops.. did I have that??" unmaned aircraft.. Yea, they don t even need to be in it when they load it with all the new chemical firepower he " forgot" he had..
Do you all seriously think the missels he is destroying is anything more than a game?? The best way to beat the United States is to make it un-united.. Time will do it, we have an attention span of like a minute.. drag it out and people tire of it, support wains and people get back in their routine thinking how good life is..
the time is near, it is not about oil, it is about our way of life plain and simple.. We here in the USA have not had to know the hell of war, if it keeps going we will..
Look around you, any country out there.. it is going on all around you.
HELL.. comming to a neighborhood near you..
Mahaffey-Family
QuoteHELL.. comming to a neighborhood near you..
Man, babe, what a depressing, bad attitude you have! [>:] Hopefully nobody will take you to seriously since you posted this at almost 1am and I personally know your very overworked and exhausted. I agree this is not about oil and Saddam is playing some kind of power game, but what makes our country so great is that we all have the FREEDOM of a different opinion!!! As stated before, Toni totally supports our troups, just not the issue behind it. I m sure that over in Iraq, they are not supported totally either - how can you have full support in countries this big, with so many people? This big deal here is supporting our troups!
Mahaffey-FamilyMahaffey-Family,
Be patient my friend. They do not know, so they do not think. I am afraid of this war turning into another Vietnam. We have fought hard and died so they may have the right to say what they want, no matter what.
Retired, US Army Still Serving
Mahaffey-FamilyI wasn t going to post and logged off only to have my mind change..
I support our troops and our President..
Do I think this is what we need, I don t know???
The President and his staff know a whole lot more than is shared with us the general public.. SO I have to trust him and his decisions to go and fight this mad man. If he(saddam) ever gets to the point of North Korea what are we going to do then??
Look around, the North Korea s have a nuke and we cant stop them for fear of the unknown... Thats where we will be down the road if we dont stop him now!!!
But he is crazy enough to use a nuke if and when he gets one. This needs to stop now. Also Iran is in the process of developing a nuke..
We have to stand up and be counted today..
We believe in peace but sometimes peace cost..
Mahaffey-Family I support your children and all the others who have loved ones serving the military forces..
My dad was 20 year career Army.. SO my feelings run a little deep on the military side of this.. He was in Vietnam & Korea.. He received a purple heart in NAM.. Bronze Star and several others there also..
I support this country and our leadership..
I support our troops..
God Bless them all and God Bless this land of the free...
where you can have a different opinion, not go to jail because of it and you can express it on an open forum..
God Bless the USA
Mahaffey-Family
QuoteI support this country and our leadership..
I support our troops..
God Bless them all and God Bless this land of the free...
where you can have a different opinion, not go to jail because of it and you can express it on an open forum..
God Bless the USA
Amen...
The Kruger s
2000 Astro
1999 Jayco Eagle UDK12
Mahaffey-FamilyLee, I m sorry, I used the wrong word. When I said " hurried" I really was thinking of a word more like " hustled" . I just feel, and again, only MOHO and not meant to try to persuade anyone else or create dissension here on the board, that we were going along after 9/11 with all of our energies on finding Asama bin Laden. We had a very focused purpose. Suddenly the focus reverted and then one day we were after Saddam Hussein, again. We don t appear to be any closer to making any noticeable progress now on either task. I know this started 12 years ago, and we should have taken care of it then. But, we didn t. Right now tho, it looks like we are making enemies all over the international front, and even here in our own country some are wondering just how many wars we are prepared to fight. You ll notice that I didn t say anywhere that I disagreed with doing something about Saddam. Just that maybe it would be a good idea to listen to the advice being given by the world at large. I also have a bad feeling, and fervently hope that I m wrong, that we will send our men to that part of the world and then find a movement on that front similiar to Custer s last stand.
I also wonder if GW is so intent on a regime change, who does he have in mind to make over the govt there? And who do you suppose will take charge of the operations of the oil industry there while the new regime is being set up?
Sorry, but during Viet nam the whole issue was supposed to have been a police action to help protect the south Vietnamese. But, if you will look back into the industry of the country you may find that there were offshore oil rights and companies drilling, and the companies there included some of the U.S. biggest and wealthiest. There was fear that they would have to leave and lose their offshore rights.
Anything that I ve said is not meant to try to make anyone take my side , just wanted to express my feelings and fears.
Toni
wiininkweI must say that, if listening to the rest of the world includes listening to France, it s not worth it. They have a particular interest in Iraq- they sell them arms and get their oil at reasonable prices. If anyone is looking at this from an " oil" standpoint, it would seem the French are, as well as the other countries getting oil from Iraq.
It would seem we are being naive if we don t acknowledge that there is a very probable tie between Hussain and Bin Laden. There s no use in sitting back and watching and waiting. The situation will only escalate more, including the foot stomping of North Korea. The longer we wait to take action with Iraq, the more missiles North Korea will fly, until we turn our attention there.
Again, what will be the opinion of the citizens of the USA if Iraq decides to start lobbing chemical and biological bombs at us, both here and at our citizens abroad? Hussain has the capability and says he ll use it. I don t see where there is any other choice than to take action now.
Waiting longer just makes no sense.
wiininkweCount me in as one of those who support our president and his policies. If you think he s lying, who do you believe? Hussein?
Also, think back to Nazi Germany. If you knew what was going on in the concentration camps, wouldn t you have wanted to stop it? Similar things go on in Iraq all the time.
As far as going to war over oil, I don t buy it, but even if we were, so what? Oil is vital to our national interests. You want to see our economy shut down, cut off the oil. Then where would we be?
wiininkweLet s see, years ago it was the Saudi s, Jordan, Egypt and other arabs states that TOLD Bush to back off once Kuwait was clear.
He has no intercontinental missles (NK does).
Iraq supplies oil to over 20 countries either directly or through intermedaries such as Jordan and Seria.
Ever time Bush shouts democracy for Iraq, the Saudi and Jordanian King, Queen, & princes all shudder.
Here s to our troops, misled as in Veitnam, but the greatest in the world anyway.
wiininkweQuick history lesson........France begged us for help against Hitler and we liberated them (over 10,000 plus GI s are buried in France to prove it) and then later when they found that they had their butts in a ditch begged us to help them out in Vietnam because France was afraid of losing their riches in that region. Now....fast forward to 2003 and France AGAIN is concerned about ITS interests and doesn t give a dang about the people of Iraq or what was done here in our country. France DOESN T want to help America break the final backer s back (Sadam) who is fueling terriorists like Bin Lauden because France has the HUGE financial stake in this NOT US!
If this was ONLY about oil for America then why would we bother with Sadam at all and risk being cutoff from oil from that region? This is the dumbest argument to date and with oil from South America and our own Alaskan reserves and all the wells that could be uncapped in Texas and Oklahoma heck we could just stay home kick up our shoes and watch the rest of the world hurl itself to perdition!
But it is about the hatred of a leader (Sadam) who would pay for the death and destruction of America at the expense of killing his own people to squash the " Great Satan" that they see us as and helped finance the death of 3,000 Americans on 9/11 that the hate started. How can anyone not realize that it is France that has BILLIONS at stake - NOT US and that we are a noble and caring nation that loves freedom and feels it necessary to destroy a tyrant such as Sadam in the interest of liberating a nation of people who WANT US to help them! As a woman - I am so outraged that our fellow sisters here in America would tolerate what has been done to so many Iraq women and children and is still going on today. You can object to war and protest all you want but I would suggest this.......if you feel that these women who risked so much to testify about what has and is being done to them over in Iraq is lying then feel good about protesting and stand your ground. If you feel that those people that have been arrested or defected are liers too then by all means protest and beat your chests against going to war with Iraq. But, what if they are telling the truth and we as a nation turned our heads away because we just didn t think we should get involved because we don t have enough proof? God have mercy on this country if that is what we have become................
wiininkweLinda- Amen from our family for your post. It is digusting what that madman is doing to his own people. He needs to be stopped- now.
Mahaffey-Family
QuoteMahaffey-Family I support your children and all the others who have loved ones serving the military forces..
My dad was 20 year career Army.. SO my feelings run a little deep on the military side of this.. He was in Vietnam & Korea.. He received a purple heart in NAM.. Bronze Star and several others there also..
I support this country and our leadership..
I support our troops..
God Bless them all and God Bless this land of the free...
where you can have a different opinion, not go to jail because of it and you can express it on an open forum..
God Bless the USA
Thank You very much. I also agree that he has to go. He has murdered thousands of his own citizens, if he isn t stopped now we may be facing another 9/11 we can t let this happen again with or without the U.N. approval. This isn t about OIL, it is about safety.
But, The way some American people are treating the Soldiers is very sad. The men and women have a job to do we need to stand behind them and keep supporting and praying for them.
wiininkweGreat point Linda.. And let s not forget Russia, Russia has loaned money to Saddam himself to support his goverment.. (Oh wait.. Russia wants to Veto as well?? Gee, Wonder why)
Second point about the treatment of women in Iraq.. Have you heard about a legal pratice of " Honor Killing" ?? (I am dead serious about this BTW) I f a woman is caught with another man in public even to the smallest point of holding hands The Iraq men find no problem with publicly shooting the " offending lady" in the back of the head.. Oh, did I mention this ia a public display remminisant of the salem witch trials?? Or the Roman gladiators??
And finialy, Toni... I am really sorry.. I really should not of bit your head off, I only was going to mention about the time frame and I got typing like a mad man and blowing my mouth off and all in all it really came down hard on you even though I was not speaking all to you.. Sorry.[:o]
wiininkweDoh... If you all have not figured it out.. Yea, that was my post up there... [;)]
wiininkweS okay Lee, no problem. We are all living in really uncertain times right now, and have only got what we read and see on TV and what we may have drawn from past experiences to base our opinions on. There s no doubt that many of our opinions are going to differ. I m glad that this is the kind of forum (in a country) where we can compare our differing beliefs with one another. I count on a lot of you on this board to fill me in with details and information that I might miss. I didn t take what you said as a personal attack and I m glad to see that most of you have taken my remarks as I intended them.
BTW, I just came home from going to my DGD s school program, (she s 5) and the whole thing was based on pride of country. All those little kids singing " I m Proud to be an American" had me bawling like crazy.
T
wiininkweOK folks, obviously no one actually heard or read the statements from the women. They weren t just from Iraq; but Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iran, even Pakistan, Afganistan and India. Many countries in the sub Sahara region of Africa make the treatment of women in arab countries look like a trip to a day spa.
At least 11 ot the 19 terrorist from 9/11 were Saudi citizens.
Libia which was one #1 on the presidential hit list 10 years ago is about to become " our ally in the fight against terrorism"
How come they aren t massing on Pakistan, as all the reports list Bin baby as being in Pakistan near the Afgan border? Are we expected to not realize Bushy can t come up with Osama so he s redirected the effort to save face?
For every " reason" double U s " brain trust" comes up with there s at least a dozen other countries that are just as bad.
Again, I support the troops just not the reasons they re being asked to die for.
wiininkweIt would seem we aren t massing on Pakistan because they are cooperating in the capture of Al Qaida operatives. Pakistan authorities detained 10 men in Peshawar over the weekend for suspected activities. Although the captured were considered low level operatives, Pakistan is showing cooperation in the hunt for Bin Laden. How much " face" would we lose by invading a country that is cooperating with the hunt for the terrorists? At the same time, Pakistan is saying they will not support a war action in Iraq. Is non-support enough of an excuse to go in with force? No, or we d be parking in Paris.
In turn, if anyone thinks that Hussain is " cooperating" in disarming by blowing up a few missiles while he builds that many more, then they are just fooling themselves. Even the inspectors are now being proven to be keeping vital info about his weapons from the security council.
Just because x many countries are just as bad as Iraq, it doesn t make it right. What will just leaving them alone do? They will just keep doing what they are doing. Should we turn a blind eye? Hussain is a dangerous man with a big mouth. If no one wants to call him insane, just stuff him in whatever category Hitler was put in. Dictators say everything the impoverished, destitute and desperate people want to hear, take power and then systematically slaughter some while oppressing those that he chooses to live. I don t think Iraq will be the last country our government will choose to deal with. Kaddafi is being quiet and, although we are saying we will " work" with him, you can bet they are watching him carefully.
The solution? Who can really say? Stop it now or live with whatever the dictators in these countries come up with next. They don t practice diplomacy. There is no reasoning with people like this.
As far as our commander and chief, well, I m happy it s him and not what s-his-face. It makes one shudder to think what the reaction from the other guy would have been to 9/11- shake a finger, send tons of Army surplus meals rations to Bin Laden and offer to hold hands and sing Kumba Ya, while empathizing with his disillusionment of his childhood of wealth and privilage? We got wayyyy too complacent for 8 years and it was fully taken advantage of. We should have nabbed Bin Laden in 96 while he sat on that tarmac in Qatar with his planes and money. He was offered up. It was our then leader that said no, don t rock the boat. After that he disappeared to plan his attacks.
Sorry- long post! But I simply don t agree with sitting back and waiting. I just hope it s quick and our troops are watched over and supported fully by the US citizens.
Mahaffey-FamilyRushing In? This has been goning on for the past 12 years. No matter how many chances Iraq has been given to disarm they have not. Why doesn t the rest of the world see this? Why do they look to us when things go wrong? Why do they look at us to bail them out financially, militarally, and humanitarian aid? Why do we need to pay another country to use their ports when our soldiers are at risk defending them? If we do nothing and let this continue Sadam will do something to his neighbors or his people. Who do you think will be asked first to help? THE UNITED STATES thats who. How much should we charge them to help? How long should we debate in congress to help? We would not charge and it would not be a long debate. In our history we have come to peoples aid even when the cost has been great both in lives and dollars. I support our President and our troops. I just don t understand why the rest of the world does not do the same. Twelve years is enough time to disarm. Now is the time to solve the problem.
wiininkwe
QuoteHow come they aren t massing on Pakistan, as all the reports list Bin baby as being in Pakistan near the Afgan border? Are we expected to not realize Bushy can t come up with Osama so he s redirected the effort to save face?
Oh, I see.. I didn t catch it before.. You just hate Pres. Bush. Tell me just what Ex-Pres Clinton was doing during his term when all this was massing up?? Oh, wait.. I just rememberd.. But this is a family board..[: (]
As to why?? Ok.. lets see. Saddam was supporting and even training people such as Osama to KILL US! Don t ya remember that big old plane that flew into NY?? So there is a first step.. Now he is massing weapons to do what?? maybe KILL US!!?? That is kinda what they would like to see happen to all of the USA.. As far back as 95 there is doccumented reports of a training center where they have a 747 plane to train with (maybe to train their women as stewards for their new airport? I kinda dobut it..) There has been many reports of this.. Gee, I am glad we had all those resolutions that were being put down to stop this kind of stuff, Eh?
Not that Saddam is any threat to the US.. but then again.. http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=114397&newsdate=3/11/2003&BCCode=BNWORLD
wiininkweHate Bush, NO. I just don t agree with his politics and his thinking that a war will make us forget he didn t come up with Binny. why aren t we nuking Saudi Arbia, most of the terrorists held saudi passports, were Saudi citizens. Turkey has killed litteraly millions of people and we re mad at them because they wouldn t take a 16 billoin dollar bribe to run across their territory. Pakistan according to all the news sources has the majority of the terrorists somewhere in their territory, but they say no to letting our forces operate, so the terrorists thumb their noses at us.
Sure Sadam a threat, but IMHO there s the cause we started out on and Bush seems to have been distracted or else he s been told a war with IRAQ will have better TVQ than having reports on being told to suck eggs by several other countries.
wiininkweAs many of you have posted, George Sr. should have taken care of this 12 yrs ago. So, now, here we go again.[:@]
BTW- This month s Reader s Digest has a great article about nuclear and biological weapons that various countries have. Interesting AND scary reading.[:o]
wiininkweI support our country, our president, and our troops. I can t say I m really " FOR" or " AGAINST" war, but as a resident of this country, I feel it is my duty and obligation to support it. (here s the kicker, I m not even American ...by paper..but I am by heart).
That being said, I saw a special on TV two days ago where they were interviewing British Prime Minister Tony Blair. In the interview pannel were young adults (college students). One of them, a young Iraqi, almost started crying when discussing Sadam and his torture of his own people. He thanked Prime Minister Blair for taking a stand against the majority of his own people and parlament to help rid Iraq of this madman.
One other thing that really sent goosebumps up my body is when they flashed a list of torture techniques that Sadam uses on his own people:
Rape by broken bottle
Acid baths
Fingernail removal
Lynchings
and many more.
Sadam had his own brother killed when he thought he was betraying him. HIS OWN BROTHER!
Something needs to be done. Unfortunately, it is up to a few select people to make this decision. I pray for them, that they do what s best, move quickly, and come out relatively unscathed.
Jennifer
Miller Tyme
QuoteORIGINAL: Miller Tyme
As many of you have posted, George Sr. should have taken care of this 12 yrs ago. So, now, here we go again.[:@]
Don t forget that Clinton also had his chance to put a lot of this to rest, but, as we all know, his priorities were elsewhere. People site " 12 years" , but we all know it goes much farther back than that. That region, in general, has been a hot spot for years and years.
Americans being terrorized overseas is still terrorism to Americans. There s no quantifying it, just because it doesn t happen on American soil. Iran had Americans hostage for 400+ days. Carter s hands were tied. Reagan gets elected and, in essence, calls Iran and tells them, " I m being inaugurated on this date. On that date, there will be an American destroyer parked off your shores. Let the hostages go or we ll start shooting" . Of course, the Iranian government sputtered about it being the " students" that took hostages and they could do nothing. Funny how fast they were released after Reagan showed his *****. good old Ayatollah.
Speak softly and carry a big stick- Teddy Roosevelt. Bush #1 wasn t afraid to show his *****. But public support waned after the Gulf War and the Middle East knew it and saw it. We were not a united front and we did not support our government. We no longer wanted our leader to show his, well, you-know-what s.
Of course, Clinton loved to show his real you-know-what s. Our face to the world changed. We became morally bankrupt in their eyes. We were being led by a sax playing, s*x with-everyone-else loving, gin-blossomed nosed clown. We presented an 8 year stand up comedy routine to the world. We became complacent and it was taken advantage of. Oh, that administration went ahead and picked and chose smaller conflicts to " take care of" . They made a nice show and kept us all semmingly comfortable (while others knew things would go awry). Yup, we still knew how to carry a stick, even while we were partying loudly.
Have we given our government enough time to catch a snake of a man that has the financial backing of nearly every Arab nation? Is 18 months long enough? To the average Joe- sure it is. To the government, who is walking on diplomatic eggshells, probably not. Anyone thinking that there is no connection between Iraq and Bin Laden has their head under their blankets. Do you really think that Mohammed Ata was meeting Hussain s big buddies in Prague to sip tea and play Maj Jong? As for the people that think it s been too long in catching Bin Laden, many of those people are also the ones saying we can t hurt the innocents in the process. Where s the solution there?
These snakes love the fact that the American people are vocal and are being televised not supporting our leaders. Don t think Hussain doesn t watch our network news. They are taking advantage of the fact that we are not a united front, supporting the idea that the world needs to be rid of vicious dictators. The more we fail to show support, the stronger the dictators of the world become. We need to return to the " speak softly and carry a big stick" ideal in future years to keep these slimeballs at bay.
But, for now, we have 300,000+ troops positioned on the Kuwait boarder, plus navy ships. That s a big stick. We should be showing our unity here, for the troops AND for our own government. That s my humble opinion and I know there are those that don t agree. Of course, that is their prerogative. Hopefully, our troops will see the opinions and free speech as one of the very reasons they are going to be fighting for- American freedom. At the same time, I would think that some are saddened by the lack of support we are giving our government.
Hopefully, this thread will continue. It s been an interesting discussion.
wiininkweWhat President Bush is trying to do Former President Clinton did without UN Approval and without all the stipulations that the anti-Bush political machinery in Washington are trying to dump on him. And for those that ARE anti-war they are doing so in such a manner that is not just anti-war but Anti-American. Sadam and all others like him must be having a real party watching all of this from their vantage point. He and others must derive great pleasure from the actions coming out of America and other countries that are actually encouraging their leaders and the UN to believe him and other tyrants when they speak. But really, why shouldn t they believe Sadam - they listen to the Hollywood ilk that spew their anti-American venom and suck it down like Mother s milk. They (Hollywood) are so full of themselves that they actually think because they are in the public spotlight that they have " insight" or that they " play" a president that they are now an expert in Foreign matters. Dear heavens what has happened to the average joe in this country that can think for him or herself? Advocating the use of Human Shields to protect the citizens of Iraq PROVED what Sadam held dear....his property....not his people! Human Shields from this country should be prosectued for treason - period. I am sick of how people feel it is their God given right to tear apart our country for the sake of their own personal mantra so much so that we now have TWO former presidents who have NO respect for the office they once held. By them NOT supporting a sitting president shows just how far we have slipped down the food chain in our former leadership here in America. We have EVERY pride parade in this country you can think of but what about AMERICAN PRIDE? Has this country been so insulated in its thinking that nothing can happen here that they have forgotten Pearl Harbor, the bombing of the World trade center and THEN 9/11? America needs to wake up and realize that those that hate what we stand for are WILLING to DIE to take it away from us - so are we willing to do what it takes to KEEP IT?
CamperJonesThanks,
LINDA[:D]& others..
Less we forget the Hillary & Bill show in Mogadishu.[:@]. This was a bad decision gone bad. After that incident we just pulled out and left them alone..
The bombing of the USS Cole [:@]another Hillary & Bill show.. How was that handled..Just pulled out and left it alone..
We have been attacked more than lately... Time to act..
Or as my son says as he is playing sports.. PUT UP or SHUT UP!!!
God Bless the USA
wiininkweJust one more thing.. No matter what side you are on politicaly.. Can we all agree to show currant and former Presidents their respect by calling them by their proper title?? Pres. Clinton (even I don t like it.) Pres. Bush, Pres Carter ect.. This is the USA and even if we don t like what they did, they deserve at least that.. Calling a sitting President names like " GW or Bushie" is just plain wrong and anti-american...
Sorry, Big pet peeve of mine.. Right up there with flag burning..
wiininkweFor those readers that have the opinion that the possible upcoming war has to do with oil, pay back, or media reasons, this is an interesting column:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03112003/postopinion/opedcolumnists/70383.htm
Also, the only President is Bush. All others should be referred to as Former-President. My pet peeve is people still referring to any former president as " Mr. President" . Respect is earned. Is it automatic just because they sat in the seat? Some will say yes, others no. Very interesting....
Firefyter-EmtThe guy in the news column is expressing his opinion, just like we all are. I don t happen to agree with it, you do. That s life. Oh, BTW, many of you are saying that we don t need foreign oil, that we have plenty of our own. I m curious then, can anyone tell me the reason we are all paying such a high price at the pump for our imported oil products? And for our heating oil? Why aren t we using our own very plentiful oil? Believe it or not, I am really asking these questions seriously, I don t understand this, and would like the answers. I am not trying to be sarcastic, as some members of the board have been accused of, just curious. (well, maybe that remark was a bit sarcastic)
http://www.msnbc.com/news/823985.asp?0cb=-115114700
T
Firefyter-EmtPart of the oil shortage has to do with Venezuela and their employee strikes. Part is the severe winter, part is war fear.
This is a very good article at MSNB outlining the current oil market:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/884631.asp?0cv=CB10
Mahaffey-FamilyPLEASE...let s keep this civil/mature/and not be offensive toward others. We all have different views. We re on thin ice viz the appropriateness of this topic (no sex and politics, isn t it?).
Beth, there IS something you can do to " protest" (or at least feel as if you are doining something/anything) and in a nice, pacific manner. I got this in an email today...
<<<Join a Candlelight Vigil
Or Start Your Own
Sunday, March 16 at 7PM citizens around the globe will be holding candlelight vigils for peace. To find out about the one nearest you, or to plan one in your own neighborhood, please visit http://www.globalvigil.org. Hundreds have already been planned, but hundreds more are needed.
TrueMajority, MoveOn.org, and the Win Without War coalition, together with Archbishop Desmond Tutu and many faith-based organizations, are calling this vigil, and we need your help.
Beginning in New Zealand, this will be a rolling wave of candlelight gatherings that will quickly cross the globe. It s up to you to make this happen. We re hoping that thousands of small groups around the world will be inspired to come together and stand for peace.
It s time for the world to come together in this moment of darkness and rekindle the light of reason -- and of hope. It s time to renew our commitment to building a positive world for our children.
With your help, we will see the first candlelight vigil to sweep around the globe on the evening of March 16th. Together, we will lead the nations of the world away from an unnecessary war and toward a peaceful and prosperous future.
This is a key moment in history. Be a part of it. Go to:
http://www.globalvigil.org
Sincerely,
Ben Cohen, President of TrueMajority
Co-founder Ben & Jerry s Ice Cream
I am writing this email on my own and not on behalf of Ben & Jerry s, which is not associated with the TrueMajority campaign.>>>
Firefyter-EmtFor those in support of our troops and our country:
Rally For America
http://www.glennbeck.com/home/rally.shtml]
I am not a listener of this radio personality, but I was informed by a friend that there are rallys taking place in support of our troops in several US cities.
Firefyter-EmtMy Turn...
1st - Let us ALL remember that the reason we can have this debate is strickly and solely because thousands of men and women died to keep us free. If we as a country choose to wait for 12 plus years of proof from Germany or Japan, this is a right we would no longer enjoy. So if you don t agree with the war, that is your choice. Just remember that it is because of these men and women that you have that choice.
2nd - This is not about a current or past President. It is about 3 simple questions; 1) Does Sadaam have nuclear and / or biological weapons? The answer is a resounding and undebatable yes. 2) Do you believe he would use them without provokation against others, even his own people? This question has also already been answered by Sadaam. 3) Do we wait to take action until he attacks first and kills hundreds or thousands? This is honestly the toughest question. We are being asked to predict the future and that is dangerous. But that is why we elect leaders. Sadaam has proven for many years that his leadership involves a lack of respect for human life (and rights). Due to his history, it is resonable to assume that he would use weapons in the future to strike.
3rd - This leads me to a final point. It is interesting that the exact same democratic party and it s leaders that criticized President Bush and the administration for not stopping 9/11 are now criticizing him for trying to stop another potential threat. You can not ask to wait for proof and then complain when the proof flies into your towers that we did nothing to stop it. If we had the knowledge, do you think we would have stopped Pearl Harbor from happening and stopped Japan in it s tracks? If we knew Hitler was going to commit genocide, would we have taken him out before he had the chance to start? For a change, we have a fairly good idea where this will lead in time with Sadaam. Do we stop him before or after he committs a terrible act?
In closing, regardless of your views on the war, this should be made clear. ALL in this country need to support our troops. Don t like the war, fine. That is your choice. Bad mouth or troops, and now you have croosed the line into being unpatriotic and unamerican. Then, it is simply time for you to leave this country. Men and women have given their lives so that you have the right to disagree with war. All of us, regardless of our feelings on this war, must show 100% support for these men and women. They are doing a job that most people (specifically the hollywood crowd) don t have the courage to do. Our service men and women and heroes becaause they died for something larger then themselves, OUR freedom! And for that, they will ALWAYS have my unwavering support, respect, and prayers. God help us ALL through this, and God watch over all who defend us. I owe them my freedom. Never forget their sacrafice.
Firefyter-Emt
QuoteFor those in support of our troops and our country:
Rally For America
Thank You very much for this. I will be attending the Rally in Richmond, Virginia on March 23, 2003. Anyone else attending?
Mahaffey-Family
QuoteORIGINAL: Mahaffey-Family
QuoteFor those in support of our troops and our country:
Rally For America
Thank You very much for this. I will be attending the Rally in Richmond, Virginia on March 23, 2003. Anyone else attending?
The closest rally for us is in Philly and it s this weekend. Unfortunately, my friends and I won t be able to attend, but we ll be there in spirit! [:)]
Firefyter-EmtIf any of you can ever catch one of Glenn Becks shows he is great.. I listen to his show every day (easy when you drive all day) Major media bias on his eairler rallys.. In TX they had 10,000 and a couple hunderd anti war protesters, protesting close by.. How did the head line read?? " Thousands turn out for pro & anti war rallys" (Made you thing the odds were even.. Tehn they have a bunch of quotes from the anti-war protesters and none from the other side) Not even to mention it was not a " Pro-War rally" Like Glenn Beck says " What kind of person is pro-war?? That is sick.. nobody should want war, war is hell.. but sometimes it needs to be fought, not savored"
Firefyter-Emt
I m really sorry you guys, I know this is a very serious matter, and I m not trying to hijack the thread or ridicule anyone here, but I saw this and just had to do it. Just to lighten the spirits a little.....
Inspection Teams....
>>
>> Have you noticed anything fishy about the inspection teams
>> who have arrived in Iraq? They re all men!
>>
>> How in the name of the United Nations does anyone expect
>> men to find Saddam s stash? We all know that men have a
>> blind spot when it comes to finding things. For crying out loud!
>> Men can t find the dirty clothes hamper. Men can t find the jar
>> of jelly until it falls out of the cupboard and splatters on the floor
>> .... and these are the people we have sent into Iraq to search for
>> hidden weapons of mass destruction?
>>
>> I keep wondering why groups of mothers weren t sent in.
>> Mothers can sniff out secrets quicker than a drug dog can
>> find a gram of dope. Mothers can find gin bottles that dads
>> have stashed in the attic beneath the rafters. They can sniff
>> out a diary two rooms and one floor away. They can tell
>> when the lid of a cookie jar has been disturbed and notice
>> when a quarter inch slice has been shaved off a chocolate
>> cake. A mother can smell alcohol on your breath before
>> you get your key in the front door and can smell cigarette
>> smoke from a block away. By examining laundry, a mother
>> knows more about their kids than Sherlock Holmes. And
>> if a mother wants an answer to question, she can read an
>> offenders eyes quicker than a homicide detective.
>>
>> So... considering the value a mother could bring to an
>> inspection team, why are we sending a bunch of old men
>> who will rely on electronic equipment to scout out hidden
>> threats? My mother would walk in with a wooden soup spoon
>> in one hand, grab Saddam by the ear, give it a good twist and
>> snap, " Young man, do you have any weapons of mass
>> destruction?" And God help him if he tried to lie to her. She d
>> march him down the street to some secret bunker and shove
>> his nose into a nuclear bomb and say, " Uh, huh, and what do
>> you call this, mister?" Whap! Thump! Whap! Whap! Whap!
>> And she d lay some stripes across his bare bottom with that
>> soup spoon, then march him home in front of the whole of
>> Baghdad. He d not only come clean and apologize for lying
>> about it, he d cut every lawn in Baghdad for free for the whole
>> damn summer.
>>
>> Inspectors my ass... You want the job done? Call my mother!
>>
>
>
Firefyter-EmtToni,
Well said. And if there was no objection, I could send my mom as well. She had a thing for the pancake flipper that had star shape slots in it. Between your mom s stripes and my mom s stars, Sadaam would have a nice flag on his butt. Let s remember that sometimes it is good to laugh a bit.
scott
Firefyter-Emt[:D] OH MY GOSH TONI!!! I love it!! I still have tears in my eyes!! [:D] [:D] [:D]
I am going to e-mail that to everyone I know!!
QuoteInspectors my butt... You want the job done? Call my mother!
had to change the wording a bit, but I love it!! [:D] [:D] [:D]