Every once in awhile someone has to mention gray water, right " tlhdoc" . Gray water is just that, and should not be a problem at the camp sites as long as it is drained away from all of the sites. Does this vary from state to state or campgrounds to campgrounds?? I do know in New York state gray water is OK on top of the ground. Being from Maryland, have not heard about Gray water to much. Could be because we need any kind of water during the hot summers. Any input? Is the Gray water container worth it on the Coleman popups [;)]?
whitestar505Now you ve done it... opened the proverbial can-o-worms with that one! I m sure Gary will be amused! (I missed that on the first post... duh... too early... and I m obviously not awake!)
Well to respond to your thread... Proper gray water disposal is important to ALL who camp. I for one would not like to follow behind the camper who threw his gray water on the ground. Yuck![:@] Stepping into someones leftover dishwater is not the best way to begin a camping outing for anyone!
Do I think the gray water containers on Coleman trailers are worth it? Well yes... and no... [&:] Let me clarify. [:)]
Yes they are worth it because they complete a system for the proper disposal of waste. (It just happens to be water, soap, and food particles, etc..). It shows that Fleetwood has taken a leadership role, and examined a problem common to all who camp, and they have provided a solution for the problem. Something other manufactures should emulate.[:D]
No they are not worth the SELLING COST to the consumer. [>:] Many of us have (or will in future) made up our own contraptions for dealing with this issue, which are much less costly, and just as effective.
Do the rules vary from state to state? Well being a Canadian, all I can go on is info I have read from others who have said " YOU BET" . I can t speak to the specifics of each state, but many are more stringent with their rules regarding gray water disposal than others.
Anyway... many others are sure to add to this thread that are more knowledgeable regarding their particular state laws on the matter. Interestingly enough though, Canada, from one coast to the other does not regulate the disposal of grey water. None of the PPs or National Parks have rulings posted or on pamphlets they hand out. [:o] (maybe some of the private CGs do?) Hey... I thought we were supposed to be the " GREEN" advocates!?
Anyway... that was my $0.02 on the subject. For those looking for ideas on how to construct well made and simple grey water systems, check out this site [link=http://community.webshots.com/user/ozandus]HERE[/link].
Have a great day all!
whitestar505Yes indeed.. I think unless you are running a shower, the " Auqatainer" system works the best, and for the value (can you say many $$$ less) you just can not beat it.. I have included my link to see it here..
http://www.yankeetoys.org/lee/camper_tips.htm
whitestar505" Let s Talk About Gary Waterÿ" GARY Water? I kept looking at this title and wondering why someone would want to start a gossip thread about GARY? What has poor Gary Water done to deserve this, I wondered.
Maybe it would be good to correct the title of the thread--I bet you d get quite a few interesting and useful answers
Now I discover it is about GRAY water which is indeed a very important subject and something most of us are interested in. My PU came with an attached grey water tank, which is fine when you have hookups, but when boondocking, it will be a problem so I am thinking of getting a 10 or 11 gallon BlueBoy to take along for that purpose.
whitestar505If I remember right...Kansas SP s treat grey water like black water. I ve got 2 10 gal (?) collapsable jugs from walmart for like 5 bucks each. One for the sink drain...and one for fresh water. Just make sure you have them plainly marked so as to not get them switched.
CadeusesI know,I know, I agree with everything you said, but gray water is not harmful in any way as long as it is truly gray water.[&:] Just to let you know I am looking at an active live camera view of PEI :http://www.gov.pe.ca/islandcam/archived.php3. Looks like a nice cold morning up there.
" Gray water is just that, and should not be a problem at the camp sites as long as it is drained away from all of the sites."
OK, you and I have some real fine descussion don t we. Is there a work around other than the Gray water tank from Coleman?[&:]
Firefyter-EmtYou have some good ideas on this web page. [:)]
NightOwlHey Nightowl
Good to heard from ya!
whitestar505Thank you.. Look around, there is a lot more...
whitestar505As Cadeuse said, you ve done it now. In Texas, it is illegal to drain gray water on the ground. Period. Needless to say, the same applies to black water. And like Cadeuse, I would not want to come behind camper(s) that have. This has been discussed MANY times in the past. Just imagine what the site conditions would be if everyone was allowed to drain their gray water onto the ground. I sure wouldn t want to camp there.
As far as the Coleman tank. We have one. It s great in the way it stores. Up under the camper and out of the way. You have to remove it from it s stored position to use it, and you have to drain it before you can store it. Is it worth the $$, not really. If I had it to do over, I would have bought a larger Blue tote and carried in the back of the TV. The Coleman tank is only 15 gals. and fills rather quickly.
Now as far as Gary Water goes, can t say I ve ever met him[:D]
bikolee
QuoteNow as far as Gary Water goes, can t say I ve ever met him
Gary Water? I know him. He hangs out a lot with M.T. Propane. [&:]
<okay, bad joke [: (]. But it was the best I could do>
whitestar505[font=" Papyrus" ] Gary water ....I can explain exactly what it is..[;)]
You see Gary is my DH, and Gary water is the results he gets from drinking beer around the campfire. [/font][:D]
whitestar505If you want a cheaper way to go, buy a aquatainer thing from wal-mart. The one with the spigot in the lid. Take that out, buy a 3/4 pipe-5/8 hose barb at the hardware store. Now just screw the pipe thread into the top of the lid. Push a short piece of hose onto it. There you go. It may drain a little slower, but we are campin , who cares.
But, here s the catch. If you come to Colorado, there is no where to dump the container. That s right, there are no dump stations in any of the nationial forests here, at least I ve never found any. State parks either. So you got to either haul it home, or dump it on the ground. What s the other choice?
whitestar505Shouldn t this actually be in the general, or fix it forum?
whitestar505
QuoteORIGINAL: whitestar505
Does this vary from state to state or campgrounds to campgrounds?? I do know in New York state gray water is OK on top of the ground.
It varies from state to state, from municipalitiy to municipality, and from campground to campground.
Many states do not make a distinction between gray water and black water. In those states, it s the same as draining sewage on the ground.
In some states, even the type of container is regulated. Florida tried to say " no portable containers" but members of PUT successfully worked with regulators to change that.
In Maine, the fine is $5,000 for disposing of gray water on the ground.
Often times, state park personnel have wrong or incomplete information about this because it falls under health & safety (Dept. Public Health, etc.), not natural resources.
Gray water is (usually) not difficult to collect and dispose of properly. In those few cases where a dump station is not available, the campsite is generally far enough out in the woods so that no one cares...as long as it really is " away from other camp sites"
and at least 200 feet from any natural body of water. Surface disposal can actually be dangerous in areas that are visited by bears. In those areas, you are generally expected to dispose of wash water immediately after washing, and only in an approved manner. If you are in one of those areas, you will know it.
I have heard of one technique for removing the thing most likely to cause problems (food particles) from gray water before surface disposal. Put an old nylon stocking over the end of the drain hose and secure it with a rubber band. When water drains, it will fill the stocking and readily drain out, but food particles will be filtered by the fabric. When the stocking is full or clogged (or stinks or is growing mold or maggots or attracting vermin), throw it in the garbage and put another one on. BTW, all of those things will still happen if you don t filter it (stinking, growing mold or maggots, or attracting vermin). It s just that it will happen on the ground where it s no simple matter to clean up, instead of in a nylon stocking that can be slipped into a garbage bag and gotten rid of properly.
Note: Those who have followed the " gray water wars" of the past will notice a softening of my position on this issue.
As far as the Coleman grey water tote, what you are really paying for is the rack in the back for storing the tote, not the tote itself. Ours was already on the pop-up and included in the price, so I don t know what we really paid for it. If I was having it added on, I would probably do something else (blue totes, etc.).
Austin
MtnCamper**Gary**, and no not you Gary Water, whoever you are... You asked...
QuoteWhat s the other choice?
Answer:
Evaporation.... For those really long camping trips...
QuoteIt may drain a little slower, but we are campin , who cares.
Ok... time for a nap... g nite
whitestar505I am delighted to see someone bring up this subject BEFORE the main camping season begins--it is NOT the easiest thing in the world to deal with and I hope this becomes a long, informative thread like we often had about this subject on the other board.
Ah, Sacto, do I recall that Dave made you a MODERATOR for a rally site? The idea being that you are to maintain " decorum" amongst the natives? Isnt this like setting the fox to watch the chickens?
whitestar505The sink drain on my Mesa is on the bottom of the camper.
I purchased one of the 7 gallon water jugs (about $7) at Walmart. I had a spare washing machine hose kicking around. Found that it fits the drain under the camper. So, I know have a gray water system. Main thing is that I have to be sure that I put a 2 x 8 under the wheel to get the camper high enough for the jug to fit underneath.
The gray water issue seems to vary from campground to campground and state to state. I generally set up and make the acquaintance of the person on duty and inquire about gray water rules.
I have gotten answers from " Use the dump station only" to " If I ain t looking, the ground is fine."
If I am camping close to a river or a lake, no way do I dump on the ground. Most of the campgrounds that I go to in NH, have plenty of woods near the sites.
whitestar505Depending where in NYS you are camping (state park vs. private campground) I do not believe that surface gray water is " ok" in all camping areas of the state.
In the past, I contacted the NYS DEC and they did send me a rather long email about gray water regulations in NYS parks. I no longer have the email, unfortunately. I have requested the information again. Unfortunately, they do not publish this info in any state campground brochures. As far as private cg s go, they make their own regulations and choose whether to enforce it or not.
We always catch our gray water in two Blue Boys (7 gallons each) from Walmart and then dispose of it down at the dumping station (NOT in the regular bath houses- that s another camping pet peeve I have-yuck!). It s not that big of a deal that we wouldn t do it at any campground. We just don t feel right about leaving a puddle of muck for the next people using the site. We try to always leave a site in as good or better condition than we found it.
whitestar505Gary water. Is thats what it s called after my brother " GARY" takes a bath . I know i wouldn t want that water in my campsite. We didn t have a gray water tank so i just set up a 10 gallon water container hooked to the drain on the side of the camper. After each meal i take it and dump it. It may only have soap water and some food particles in it. But if everyone poured it out next to the camper .Soon enough you would have a lot of food particles and then it would start smelling in the heat of august.
whitestar505You are going to find that different groups define gray water in their own way.
In the RV industry, gray water is usually sink/shower water while toilet water is " black water" .
This works well except in many jurisdictions gray water is a legally defined term. Legally (it does vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction) gray water is usually the water from a clothes washer and a handwashing sink while sewage is the discharge from a toilet or kitchen sink.
You can see the obvious differences and where problems may arise. In some jurisdictions they are beginning to allow the use of untreated gray water for home gardnening watering with restrictions. Usually it is not allowed to be dumped directly on the ground (you need some form of below the surface irrigation system) as well as time limits on how long you store it before use. Any water not used in the allowed time (which is usually limited to several hours) must be disposed of in the sewer/septic system.
In answer to yor question, it is gray unless you are in Canada then it is grey.
For more information, check out my [link=http://www.title-3.com/GrayWater.htm]Gray Water Web Page[/link]. It s more than you ever wanted to know about the subject
whitestar505I use 2 of the 5 gal. totes. I don t have to dump the tote as soon as it gets full. I can wait until I have time to do it. We get 3 showers into a 5 gal. tote.[:D]
tim5055" Gary Water" LOL! Pour some of it on these things => [:)][8D][&:][:(][>:][:D][;)][:@][: (][:o]
As for the so called " gray water" , can anyone tell me where to find Realtree camo covered 50ft hoses? (Don t know exactly for what I d use them! [;)])
It s interesting to note that within the first 6" of topsoil (especially in the woods) live micro-organisms which will eat any food particles within a couple of days, so there won t be any " August odors" . In fact, when digging a latrine for personal use, one is instructed to dig no deeper than 6" and cover it up when done. All will be gone within a few days!
topcat7736
QuoteORIGINAL: topcat7736
It s interesting to note that within the first 6" of topsoil (especially in the woods) live micro-organisms which will eat any food particles within a couple of days, so there won t be any " August odors" . In fact, when digging a latrine for personal use, one is instructed to dig no deeper than 6" and cover it up when done. All will be gone within a few days!
This was once believed to be true, but actual testing have shown it is not. Food waste on the surface (depending on it s nature) can remain there for months or even years.
Human waste buried in the first 6" of soil generally takes three years to deompose completely, much longer in arid areas. In remote backpacking situations, current instructions are either 1) pack it out [: (] or 2) smear it to less than 1/8" thick on the surface where it will be struck by direct sunlight. [: (] This has to be done at least 200 feet from any water source, surface water, road, or trail.
I m not a backpacker, but I d be inclined to bury it anyway.
Austin
whitestar505Many if not all states have laws against draining gray water or black water directly on the ground. All of the campgrounds I ve ever been to have a dumping station. It really isn t too inconvenient. I believe that if you are the only camper in a field dumping gray water once or twice a year, there is not really much of an impact. The problem is likely that a 300 site campground that is full 80% of the year will definetely be impacted if everyone dumps their gray water. Just think if every campsite has 3 people. The gray water dumping (on the ground) would be much greater than you can imagine, so please be considerate of mother nature and other campers.
In Florida, I believe that they passed a law that would make it illegal to even use a gray water container that was not designed as part of the camper. They would not allow a hose dumping into a bucket, or one of the Aquacontainers (from Wally World) because they can overflow. I believe that the law has changed and the Aquacontainers and other portable containers are now allowed if I am correct.
Regardless, it is a common sense good idea to prevent any graywater spilling on the ground. Now there, I said it. (LOL)
MtnCamper
QuoteBut, here s the catch. If you come to Colorado, there is no where to dump the container. That s right, there are no dump stations in any of the nationial forests here, at least I ve never found any. State parks either. So you got to either haul it home, or dump it on the ground. What s the other choice?
What I think this means is there should be no HUMANS in the woods.[:D]
whitestar505Hi! I M GARY and my hair is getting GRAY, but I m NOT retaining WATER! Anyway, having finally solved this problem with an wheeled Blue Tote last year, (after years of lugging a 5 gallon container) and enjoying the verbal battles past and present, I would still like to chime in and say this subject, Gray water, should be properly addressed on all campground publications and with signage. IF you are a newbie camper and read the how-to camping books, almost all of them will tell you to broadcast your gray water over as wide an area as possible at least 200 feet from water!
Perhaps in the past, throwing out gray water like that was okay, however with camping one of the fastest growing outdoor activities these days, there are just too many campers to do it that way without causing problems.
One of the best sights in any of the Mass. campgounds we stayed in was what I call " The Parade of the Wheeled Blue Totes!" Every night, after supper, you would see tow vehicle after tow vehicle driving by (at twice the CG Speed Limit) with one of the Blue Tote hooked to the trailer hitch or bumper. Those little plastic wheels just about smokin ! I want to go back and have a DECORATED Blue Tote Parade!
whitestar505Hi All Again,
After reading all the attachments to this thread I still have not got a good way to deal with Gray Water. I have checked ways out and I am running into to many cons for each. If you buy blue totes where do you store them when driving. Let s say 2 5gal totes. Or if you buy the tote along the same question is asked. This one is costly also. If you get the Coleman gary water storage tank it is attached under the trailer out og the way. This also is costly. So .........[&:]
whitestar505
QuoteORIGINAL: whitestar505
If you buy blue totes where do you store them when driving. Let s say 2 5gal totes.
I take the broom and slide the totes all the way against the back wall, then slide in the 3 sterilite drawers, the broom goes beside the whole thing. Ice chest goes in. Door is shut, and down the road.
tim5055I learned all about gray water last weekend. If you don t put something under the drain to catch it, it mixes with the local dirt and comes back into your trailer on the soles of your children s feet.
Here in coastal California, I use laundry rinse water to water my roses. We ve had so many droughts that I don t want them to be used to fresh water in the summertime. The gray water doesn t affect the scent of the roses.
I ve almost decided to get a dishpan and do my dishes at the outside shower. The sink in the PU isn t sloped enough to drain well. I wonder what the status of that water will be.
tim5055DREDGER !!!!!![8D][8D][8D]
tim5055Ah, Birol, you are now the Dreaded Dead Thread Dredger. ( dont have those wings and beer and try to say THAT[: (] )
As Dead Threads go, however, this is probably a good one to Dredge, Grey Water being a subject well worth dredging now that camping season is here.
However, I DO think that GARY WATER needs to get his OWN thread so we dont get sidetracked again![:D]
tim5055Heather,
The blue jugs are nice but you can also use collapsible 5-gal water containers (click [link=http://www.kmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=502770&cp=712679&parentPage=family]HERE[/link]). (It says 2.5 but they are 5 in the store).
The drain plug, on the side of your Bayside, can have a short piece of hose attached to it and the other end inserted into the jug for easy draining. Note, at a little over 8#/gallon, you re going to pickup close to 50# of water/jug combo when filled.
Your best bet is to get the jug & small piece of hose and put some water in the jug so people think you re using it. Get a 50 or 100 hose, (colored to be hidden on the ground), actually attach it to your trailer & send the other end into the woods to help out the plants & trees. If nobody s around, run the hose to someone elses blue tank & let them carry it away for you! LOL [;)]
tim5055Al, you always know THE BEST WAY to handle these things. I especially like the idea of a decoy hose![:D][;)][8D] I bet it is all those years in BoyScouts that prepared you to deal with such problems.
But, how come you and Peggy arent taking advantage of the good weather to go someplace camping, Dvinya?[>:][:(]