Your not going to believe this, but we went to Walt Michal s R.V. yesterday to look at pop-ups to see what we want in our next pop-up. Our current pop-up is starting to fall apart. The canvas is starting to come off the rusted screws and the door is slightly asque due to my DH trying to pop down the pop-up with it up. We thought we would go look at the newer models to see the features, etc. Well, we ended up walking out of there the new owners of a 2004 Viking 2465. It has all of the bells and whistles except air, which is really not needed here in Michigan. It has a full size and a king size bed, shower, cassette potti, furnace, screen room, bike rack, fridge, and a slide out. DH had them throw in the extras such as the screen room and bike rack and still talked them down to $8,800. I can t wait to try it out for the first time!! I am actually giddy!!
-Debby
MPTDAT[:)]Congrats Debby!! I know you ll enjoy making new memories in that new, fancy popup!!
CathyAnn
MPTDATYou have to watch it when you go to " just look" it s really hard to resist the temptation.
Congrats - hope you will enjoy many years of camping.
MPTDATMy DH takes me to " just look" on Sundays when there is no one there for me to talk to. It s safer that way, he says. LOL.
T
[;)]
MPTDATCongrats!
MPTDATCongratulations! I know you have to just be thrilled!
Enjoy that new camper smell! [;)]
MPTDATCongrads on the new camper, I m sure you ll enjoy it.
you have to watch out for just going to look it things. Thats how we wound up getting our TV and pu[8D]
MPTDATBeen there, done that, don t ya just hate when you go in just looking. For us, we were looking for a bike rake and bought a hybrid instead[:D]
MPTDATCongratulations ! SHower and potty too to boot ! Our dream PU ! I hope you will ave tons of good memories with it.
MPTDATCongratulations of the new PU. Have fun camping in it.
MPTDATGood luck working with Walt Michals. I swore them off three years ago. They weren t very " pop up" friendly in service or support after the sale. Hopefully they have improved but I ll never set foot inside their store again.
MPTDATjim, you are absolutely right on the service. We picked up our pop up on Thursday, barely got any sort of a walk through, found a scratch on the back bumper and the walkthrough guy took off with our paper work and gift certificates. Meanwhile, our salesman was no where to be seen, except to show up to give us our plates off our old pop up. We get it home, put it up and there are more problems than you can imagine, some of which we pointed out to our salesman, Dennis Donahue, when we looked through it a few days before, He had told us, don t worry it will all be there and fixed when you come pick it up. Our truck, which we dropped off on Wednesday was not ready and we ended up waiting for three hours to finally go home in the dark in the middle of that bad storm on Thursday. Meanwhile, they had been paging our salesman at least 15 time and he never showed up. No one is ever in parts when we call to make sure the parts we are missing have been ordered, and our salesman is never in, nor does he return our phone calls. My husband finally sent an e-mail and he called us. He is trying to tell us that the bumper storage is not on our model, but the brochure says it is standard. He told us sheets were $50 per side and the parts guy said that they are $80. We found that the gaucho had had a knot in the wood which fell out and the wood had obviously broken, and they STAPLED it together. The door is not right and two outlets don t work. My husband says he should be compensated for the time we are missing not camping this weekend as planned because it is now at the dealership. He wants sheets for the two beds and they are refusing to do anything. they say your satisfaction is their policy, BULL!! If it was I would be looking at my pop up from Oscoda right now! Or I would see them putting AC in for all the crap we have been through!!I am seriously thinking of calling the problem solvers on Fox 2 News. Sorry about the venting! I am extremely upset right now!!
-Debby
MPTDATWe are really sorry that you are having this experience. I hate when good things turn bad...... If there is a good thing from all of this will be the support you will get from everyone here. Not to be trite, but hang in there and " Don t let the turkeys get you down!!!!"
MPTDATDebby how awful for you. I would contact the owner of the dealership, and if you don t get satisfaction from him I would contact the company. Hang in there and I hope you get everything worked out.
If you can t get things done nice, then I would go to the dealership when they are busy and start complaining in a very loud voice in the sales department. Make sure there are customers around if you have to do this.
MPTDATJust listen to Tracy, always make sure that there are other customers around when you talk (loudly) about the problems that you re having with your sales rep or dealer. Also make sure that you tell them in no uncertain terms that you WILL get ahold of whatever agency is responsible for regulating rv sales in the state. Be sure that other customers hear you say that too, in fact, if possible, mention the name of the agency in front of the other customers. In Michigan we re lucky to be so close to so many manufacturers of popups and rvs, so we can easily let the dealership know that we are not dependent on their particular showroom. We can go elsewhere, and take our money and our friends and our friend s money with us. And follow thru on your threats, if you aren t satisfied, don t waste time, call that agency and make your complaint, and ask them to keep you informed of their follow up. I m really sorry that right now I can t remember the agency, my mind is stuck on the Dept. of Motor Vehicles, and I m sure that s not the right one. Maybe someone else can tell you that.
T
[;)]
MPTDATwiininkwe, did you ever find out the name of the agency?? I can t get a hold of anyone and the owner is never in!
-Debby
MPTDATUnbelievable. If you re still not getting a decent response out of them by Tuesday (I checked - they re closed today), I would start by documenting everything, who you called and when, and the responses you got (and didn t get.) You can try contacting the State Attorney General s office: http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-17331-42077--,00.html , the BBB, and definately the local news stations if the dealer doesn t come through. I would get their fax number and send them copies of letters you re sending to these agencies. We bought our PU used from General RV in Mt. Clemens, and I can t imagine the salesman or the dealer made much on the sale, but they were so thorough, helpful (even after the sale, when I called the salesman several times with some really stupid questions, before I found PUT [:)]), and not at all pushy. When DH told our salesman he really appreciated his approach, he said " Hey, we figure if we treat you right this time, you ll be back for something bigger next time." He s right - I just don t understand how some dealers don t understand how important decent service is if you want return customers. Go get em [:@].
MPTDATOn Tuesday you might call the Dept of Motor vehicles and ask them if they are the governing agency for RV sales dealerships, and if they aren t they may be able to tell you who is. (I stilll haven t remembered who it is, must be the old fibromyalgia causing a fog) Other than that, the State Attorney General s office is a very good idea too. I m sure that one of them can help you. Just don t give up. I read in your other thread that the PU you took home was not the PU you actually bought. It seems to me that if they had put your bike rack etc. on the wrong PU, that would be their problem and not yours. You wouldn t have been outside your rights to have said, " No, this is not the PU I want." If you call the Attorney Gen, make sure that you tell them about this as well. This whole deal sounds very fishy, and the dealership is right on the edge of illegal/unethical.
Wait, it might be the Secretary of States office.!!!!!
T
[;)]
MPTDAT[:@] I would drop a letter to Viking, letting them know of the problems, and telling them that you belong to this group, and the word will get out not to buy there product or use that dealership! If you don t get immediate satifaction.
MPTDATHave you made any progress with the dealership?
MPTDATNot at all. My DH has called them twice, once on Tuesday and once yesterday. He called and talked to a sales manager on Tuesday and he said he would look into the matter promptly and call him back that day. He didn t (imagine that!!). So DH was very upset when he called yesterday. He talked to another sales manager and asked him what he was gonna do about the situation. He offered DH a $50 gift certificate. DH laughed in his face. He said " Really what are you gonna do for me to fix this situation??" The man said " Nothing" . They claim my DH signed papers stating the pop up was delivered to us in perfect shape with no parts missing. They also told us he signed it 4 days before the pop up was delivered to us. DH is very upset. Was on the phone with this idiot for more than 45 minutes. He ended up asking him to have Walt Michal call him. Of course they said no. But they promised they would have his assitant or as they called him, his " right hand man" call sometime today. We also got online and printed out a copy of the Michigan Consumer Protection Act. there were a few things in there that we think may apply to our situation. Especially since in number 22 of the consumer act, it states the following is forbidden: " Arranging for the consumer to sign something when the merchant knows or has reason to know that the statement is not true." Although the funny thing is that we supposedly have copies of all the paperwork and we don t seem to have a copy of that paper he supposedly signed. My DH just wants our money back at this point. They told us since it is already titled, we can t return it. They also told us that the 3 day Michigan law does not apply to RV s. In other word anything else, you have 3 days to cancel the contract and change your mind. I tried loking that up online and couldn t find anything. There were a few other things in the consumer protection act we believe applies to our situation. I guess we will have to see if this " right hand man" calls us today.
MPTDAThttp://www.wmichalsrv.com/
Maybe we should all go online to the above link...click on " contact us" and let them know what we think about the way they treat their customers! hehehe... [:)]
MPTDATI don t know if you noticed that right on the front pages of the website what does it say??
" I would like to personally extend an invitation to all of you to stop by Walt Michal s RV Center. Our one stop shop has new and used RV s to choose from and a FRIENDLY, HELPFUL STAFF EAGERLY WAITING TO ASSIST YOU. "
and
" Our commitment to 100% SATISFACTION continues and you, our loyal customer and friends have played a major role in the improvements we have made."
And on the company info page:
" Everyday, every member of the team strives for excellence in every way. We demonstrate excellence in the way we TREAT EVERY CUSTOMER AS IF THEY WERE OUR BEST FRIEND. We want to make sure that they are 100% SATISFIED with every aspect of their experience."
and
" Excellence in the way EACH AND EVERY TELEPHONE CALL IS HANDLED QUICKLY AND COURTEOUSLY.
What a joke. I don t need any best friends like that. And how long did we wait for the salesman to call us back?? Quick and courteous, yeah o.k.
MPTDAT
QuoteOur commitment to 100% SATISFACTION continues and you, our loyal customer and friends have played a major role in the improvements we have made."
hehehe...yep...I noticed...and used it in my comments to them.... [;)]
MPTDATJust to let you all know that you are great in the way you have stood behind me in this!! Believe me I need it!! I would like to thank anyone who has or will be sending e-mail and comments to Walt Michal s RV. I sincerely hope it helps!
-Debby
MPTDATI hope you have spoke to a lawyer. You need to find someone who specializes in this arear of contracts. Don t wait too long to go after them. Good luck. We will also send an e-mail.
MPTDATI sent an email tonight. I hope it will help.[&:]
MPTDATI just got done sending them a comment on thier web site. I hope it helps. Good Luck and keep up the good fight.
MPTDATHere is the email I sent to Walt Michals, just wanted to let you know that I think this is a very serious issue and will support you whereever I can
Mr. Michals
My name is Toni VandeVoren and I live in Wyoming, MI. My husband and I currently own a 1996 Coleman Yukon camper. We have begun discussing the options we have for upgrading, and your dealership very likely would be one of the ones we would check out while searching. Except for one thing.
We are members of a internet camping group called PopUpTimes. As members of the message board for this group we have become acquainted with Mike and Debby Talbert, some of your customers. They had told us in glowing terms about the great experience they had when they went to your dealership and purchased a camper. Then they followed up and told us, in detail, about the nightmare they?ve been having ever since you got their money. Our camping club is a very close group. We all do anything we can to go to bat for any other member or the group. Not just for members of our group, but for campers in general. We realize that as a group, our voices are louder than as individuals, and we are proud to use our voices. This group was actually responsible for the insight into gray water regulations in the State of Florida. We have several Reps from camper manufacturers on our panel, and they are interested in our feedback as well.
I noticed that on the homepage of your website you stress your commitment to 100% satisfaction for your customers. From the sounds of it, it doesn?t sound like the Talberts are getting 100% satisfaction. Rest assured that a large number of the camping population in the states of MI and Indiana are reading the same horror stories that I am, and even across the country. Our club has a membership of 786 members in the U.S. and Canada, and some of our members are also members of several other camping web sites. Believe me, you are now getting the worst publicity you can imagine. It seems to me that in order to clear up this negativity, you would be eager to clear up those problems with the Talberts. Beginning with the fact that you gave them an entirely different camper than the one they paid for, it seems like your problems with them could very easily be legal as much as ethical. Listen carefully, our voices are speaking.
T
[;)]
MPTDAT...since I made my earlier post. I wish I could have warned you about this outfit before but I don t like to bash companies in public forums. I had an opportunity once to speak to old Walt himself as I waited in his showroom once for two and a half hours for them to find my camper (my last visit there). They called me on a Friday to tell me my camper was ready and if I didn t pick it up Saturday they would start charging me $50/day for storage. I had to drop some plans and go get it and then spent over two exasperating hours waiting for them to find it. After about an hour and a half of waiting and watching people generally do nothing to help me after repeatedly making a nuisance of myself, out walks Walt into the showroom. I step in front of him and politely introduce myself and start to explain my problem. He smiles, puts his arm around me and leads me to the service counter and tells the man behind it to help me out (this is the same guy I have been annoying for the last hour and a half). The man smiles and says " We are working on it Walt" . Walt smiles back and heads of to berate a salesman (in the middle of the showroom) about missing his sales quota. Over an hour later my camper shows up along side the show room, is unhitched and everyone leaves. I have to hook up, check lights and everthing myself, not to mention no one even bothered to stay and talk to me about the repairs (thankfully they were done, although a dust cap fell off of a rim after about 50 miles). A fellow customer helped me check lights and I was off, never to be seen there again. This was not my first bad experience there but definitely my last...
Morale of the story, I wouldn t count on Walt Michals helping you.
PS. I have since been using General RV to perform maintenance and repairs on my camper and could not be happier with them. I would consider using them for anything other than expensive warranty work (if it happens and you have to take it back to Walt Michals, be prepared for a LONG wait for them to get it in, and return it).
MPTDATSent off the following:
I am writing on behalf of the Talbert family whom obviously is having a problem with your dealership. Their request for a refund does not sound unreasonable, and I would hope that you will find returning thier money a very good business decision.
I too frequent the Pop Up Times website, and I have a personal website as well, and I will place a clear warning to anyone considering a purchase at your dealership. As a business you must be aware of how powerful word of mouth advertising can be, and I would think that the potential negative impact of not satisfying the Talberts would be greater than you would be willing to risk.
Seeing as your dealership has such a wide variety of manufacturers represented, and how closely we RVers are linked via the Internet, it is a fact that the Talbert story will go far beyond the confines of Pop Up Times. As several of us realize that your company clearly mistreated the Talberts, I would hope that beginning today you will truly commit to customer satisfaction and do the right thing for this hard working family.
I appeal to your your sense of what is right, not just what is profitable, and ask that you go out of your way to satisfy the Talberts.
*****************************************************************
Keep us informed as to what you hear.
MPTDATToni, that letter sounds perfect. I don t think the guy my DH talked to cared too much when he mentioned Pop Up Times. Hopefully that will help them realize that this situation is a serious one. It seems as though we have been nothing more than a joke to them. Jim, I know what you mean about the service in repairs too. DH talked to two people yesterday. One was the service guy, he said the pop up is almost ready with the exception of an outlet that was just ordered (seems the original one wasn t grounded) and the valances that were missing were just ordered. They have had my pop up since Friday. They are just now ordering the parts for it?? He told DH that he could come get it but he would have to bring it back so they could put the parts on when they come (he said it would take almost a week to get them). DH told him to just keep it there. The service guy also said he couldn t put the rear bumper storage on it because it doesn t come on that model. Dh argued and told him it says in the brochure that it is standard on that model. The guy told him he would have to talk to his sales rep. (Dennis Donahue - the guys who screwed us to begin with). DH then got a call a few hours later from Walt Michal s right hand man s assistant. No, not the man himself. DH really got no where with this guy. The man told him in the brochure it may say that it is standard but it also says it is subject to change. DH told him that the salesman promised it would be on when we picked it up. This guy tells him Dennis said he never promised you guys anything. (We see how well his promises go - " They put the bike rack on the wrong pop up. But I promise that I personally will make sure everything is perfect on that pop up when you pick it up." - YEAH RIGHT!!) Although this guy did tell DH " Yeah, we screwed up, how can I fix this situation?" DH tells them " I want the bumper storage and at least free sheets" . The guy said he will call back after he talks to his bosses. We ll have to see. I personally think that what we have been through is worth alot more than a bumper storage and sheets. I m thinking more along the lines of AC and a big apology!! Anyhow, I will let you know what he says when (if) he calls.
MPTDATDebby,
Your getting preferential treatment from the service department if they have only had it a week. It took me four weeks to get mine on the schedule the last time it was there and it took them three weeks to fix it and they didn t have to order any parts!
Before that I broke a leaf spring on mine and I ended up replacing it myself because they would have had it practically the whole summer if I waited to get on their schedule.
MPTDATDebby,
I have been following your post here throughout your ordeal. I am so sorry you are being put through this. We purchased a 2002 Legends GP 2575 ST and we can honestly say the dealer has backed us 100%. They have been absolutely wonderful from the owner down. We had some issues with things that needed to be fixed, our dealer even picked it up at our home to bring it in for repairs. They have fixed or replaced a few items. When we first got our PU we called and talked to the owner regarding questions or concerns. Sometimes we even have talked to our service man for advice. Installing an A/C unit was one. And yes, the pole storage box is one that does come standard on your unit. That one should not even be a bargaining issue.
DH and I searched different manufacturers and dealers here in the Phoenix area and the reason we did not choose Coleman was the local dealers. Our friend s son had a Coleman with an ABS roof that cracked in about 2 months of owning and it was new, the dealer would not replace without charging them 1000 for labor and freight. We also checked with the BBB and they have several complaints that have not been resolved yet. Our dealer had zero.
I really think your next step would be to call or write a letter to Clint Rumble, president of Viking RV. I think he needs to be made aware of your frustrations and run arounds, and bait and switch. I am sure he would not be happy with that situation.
Again, I am sorry you have experienced such problem with your dealer and unit. I hope it will be resolved soon. Take care.
Mary Romeo
MPTDATJust sent off my response. I bet you ll be hearing something from them. Keep us posted.
MPTDATI have been following your story, and finally decided to get involved, as many others have done. I encourage others to send a short (or long) note to Walt Michals. Go to www.waltmichals.com and then click on " Contact Us" .
Here is what I sent:
I am writing to your company out of concern for the Talbert family, who recently purchased a popup from your dealership. I am a member of PopUp Times, one of the largest popup clubs in the nation.
The Talbert Family was so excited when they purchased their 2004 Viking 2465. Debby posted on our board about how happy she and the family was! She actually said, " I can t wait to try it out for the first time!! I am actually giddy!!"
Now, they are faced with dealing with the BBB, possibly the Attorney General s office, and any number of other unnecessary bureaucracies, just because they bought a popup!
I must also inform you that you are receiving much bad publicity concerning this unfaithful transaction. Although I live many miles from your dealership, I do have other online friends who ask for opinions concerning their own local dealerships. You can bet that I will remember the Walt Michals name.
I plead with you to make this transaction right. They were happy with everything, apparently up until the pickup date. If you " deliver" on your promise, and the Talbert family is happy, I can also tell you that you will be rewarded with better publicity at Popup Times and other online popup communities.
Thank you for your time in reading our emails, and we hope to hear good things about Walt Michals RV Center soon.
Larry Crockett
MPTDATWell, the last time we heard from them was Thursday. I hope no news is good news!! I hope that they are taking their time and reading over all the comments and e-mails that were sent to them before deciding to call us. I haven t even heard from the service people as to an update on the progress of the repairs on the pop up. I once again want to thank everyone for making me feel like a part of the family and for sending your comments. I am honored to be among such wonderful people.
-Debby
MPTDATI hope that they do the right thing for you.
MPTDATSent mine, also. Everyone s was worded so well that I didn t think anything else needed to be said, but numbers of e-mails should still help so here was my simple e-mail:
100% customer satisfaction until product delivery? No, I don t think so. I am not particularly happy with what has been happening to the Talbert family who purchased a Pop-Up camper from you since their purchase.
In the hopes for a real 100% satisfaction for your customers, I do hope you will do an about-turn and treat them like you would like to be treated.
-Teri
(PopUp Times member)
Not written well in any way, but I doubt they re looking for content at this point, anyway. The rest of you got the point across very eloquently - good job! [:D]
MPTDATWouldn t you just love to be a mouse in a corner to watch and listen as they read all these emails that we ve sent?! teeheehee I know that it s most honorable to do a helpful deed and not look for reward, but this is one of those times that I think it would be most satisfying to us to know what the folks from Walt Michals dealership are thinking.
T
[;)]
MPTDATI wonder how many people have read this and will not buy from good old Walt. I wonder if they have any idea about how many people this information will go to.
tlhdocI chimed in on Walt s email as well. Very short and sweet and to the point. [: (]
I fully agree that the dealer can make or break whether or not to buy a certain brand.
Viking really seems like a great company, so I m sure they would be more than interested in this unresolved situation.
Best of luck Debby. Keep up the good fight (even though you never asked for it).
-S
tlhdocAnyone gotten a response back from them?? I just got this one
hello,my name is Jeremy Miller one of the salesmanagers here at Walt michals
RV center, we understand that there are forums out there and some dealerships
dont have as many negative remarks however where the comments count threw
the better business bureau we have excellent standings, but we try to make everyone
happy but in some cases that just cant be done we stand behind our products and
our service we average over 275 sales per month that is 3,300 units sold a year
i am not sure how many complaints are on that site but iam sure we are in the
90% + range for satisfied customers, i understand if the forum detours you away
from doing business with us here however as large as we are we buy all our rvs
in bulk there for we can sell them less than anyone in the midwest, if you would
like to stop in and visit with me i would be more than happy to answer any questions
and earn your business thank you for your time.
Jeremy miller
I m thinking they need some serious editing work when their sales staff responds to emails! LOL...good grief....
wiininkwe
QuoteORIGINAL: wiininkwe
Wouldn t you just love to be a mouse in a corner to watch and listen as they read all these emails that we ve sent?! teeheehee I know that it s most honorable to do a helpful deed and not look for reward, but this is one of those times that I think it would be most satisfying to us to know what the folks from Walt Michals dealership are thinking.
T
[;)]
Agree.
Something I forgot to point out, but maybe someone who HASN T sent an email could put in their email: The emails they HAVE received are only a small percentage of the ones that have actually read this thread. The many emails they have gotten are only the ones that have taken the time to type an email.
Larry
vjm1639
QuoteORIGINAL: vjm1639
Anyone gotten a response back from them?? I just got this one
hello,my name is Jeremy Miller one of the salesmanagers here at Walt michals
RV center, we understand that there are forums out there and some dealerships
dont have as many negative remarks however where the comments count threw
the better business bureau we have excellent standings, but we try to make everyone
happy but in some cases that just cant be done we stand behind our products and
our service we average over 275 sales per month that is 3,300 units sold a year
i am not sure how many complaints are on that site but iam sure we are in the
90% + range for satisfied customers, i understand if the forum detours you away
from doing business with us here however as large as we are we buy all our rvs
in bulk there for we can sell them less than anyone in the midwest, if you would
like to stop in and visit with me i would be more than happy to answer any questions
and earn your business thank you for your time.
Jeremy miller
I m thinking they need some serious editing work when their sales staff responds to emails! LOL...good grief....
Good grief is right. If you copied and pasted that email, that is sad. I think there is only one period in that email. One LONG sentence.
Quoteiam sure we are in the
90% + range for satisfied customers
I sell you a ticket for an airplane ride. 90% of the time the seat doesn t fall out of the plane. Does that make me satisfied?
Larry
tlhdoc[:@]
tlhdocYou would think a sales manager could type/write better than that. If this is an example of the management at the dealership it is no wonder the place is in such bad shape.
I guess they sell so many trailers that 10% unsatisfied is acceptable. They should change the 100% satisfaction to about 90%(on their web page). Even the sales manager says so.
tlhdocHow ironic that it would be Jeremy Miller. That is the name of the guy that called last Thursday. He told us he would talk to Walt and Rick about getting us some satisfaction. He promised he would call DH back within a couple of days. Well, it is now Wednesday night and no phone call. Funny thing is that I e-mailed them about my complaints long before Vicki did. I didn t get an e-mail back, I guess it is because I was complaining and Vicki let it slip that she may be in the market for a new RV. Ooh that might mean some business to them. Trying to suck up to the next potential victim. By the way, I checked the BBB and they have a satisfactory rating NOT an excellent rating. DH is going to file a complaint with them anyways. Keep it up guys!! Your doing great!! Hopefully something will work soon!
-Debby
MPTDAT
QuoteORIGINAL: MPTDAT
I checked the BBB and they have a satisfactory rating NOT an excellent rating. DH is going to file a complaint with them anyways.
-Debby
Debby do you mean they LIED?
[:D]
tlhdocWhen I was in business for myself I remember reading a Harvard marketing study result which indicated a satisfied customer, on average, tells 10 people about their pleasant experience with a business. Whereas a dissatisfied customer will tell, on average, 20 people about their unpleasant experience. In that same study, they found only 1 in 100 dissatisfied customers would actually follow through with a BBB complaint. Hence, a closed BBB complaint file doesn t tell the whole story either.
I pray all works out to your satisfaction soon.
Peace be with you all.
tlhdocDH filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau yesterday. It says it will take up to 3 weeks. DH even quoted some of the things in the Michigan Consumer Protection Act to them. Thing is though, they don t give you a whole lot of room to write about your complaint. Hopefully, it is enough that they feel a need to look into it. BTW Michicampers- why did you edit your post?? I thought it was hilarious!!
-Debby
tlhdoc
QuoteIf you copied and pasted that email, that is sad.
Yep, Larry.... I copied and pasted! LOL...pitiful... [;)
tlhdocWell, they must really like Vicki & Bill, here is what they sent to me:
" We have no way to refute the posting the Talbert family has made as We cannot find it. You obviously have the short sightedness to flame quietly based upon a posting from a single source. We are one of the top ten dealers in the nation, and try to make every effort to ensure 100% customer satisfaction. Some people have unrealistic expectations, and some are just plain unable to allow themselves to be happy. Our management team was dealing with the Talberts to rectify the situation, however, the Talberts feel the need to make a defamatory statement to .000000000001 % of the national population (the pop-up users group). You get more bees with honey than the mud they are slinging. "
And yes, I just copied and pasted!! I assume that the .000000000001% comment was supposed to be a slam at us? Are we that insignificant? We shall see!! [:@]
Larry
tlhdocThe only mud we are slinging would be the truth! I don t see how wanting the pop up we picked out, the bumper storage that is standard with the unit, good service, a salesman who is there for you and a pop up that won t fall apart the minute you pop it up is an unrealistic expectation. BTW I don t know if I mentioned this before, but we called Viking and almost everything that was actually wrong with the pop up was the dealers responsibility to set up. It is considered part of the prep. The reps at Viking at least called us back the same day, were very nice and were trying to help us in some way. They said they were going to contact Walt Michal s and talk to their rep there. I am at least glad that I bought a Viking.
-Debby
tlhdocI hate to say it, but I hope this email campaign didn t make things worse.
Personally I thought 1 week of problems was a little too soon to start something like this. I know with businesses I ve worked for, once things turn to threats of BBB or Atornery General, and bad pub. campaigns. The business usually decides to go from " Let s make them happy" to " Let s make them go away" .
IMO I think in the future, PUT members really should save these tactics as a last resort, maybe right before or after hiring a lawyer.
Remember to the Viking Rep, this is probably a huge account, that he has no plans to lose.
But good luck, I hope you get things fixed to your satisfaction.
Hopefully they decide to make things right and get it over with.
tlhdoc
QuoteWell, they must really like Vicki & Bill, here is what they sent to me:
I think the difference in their attitude is....I didn t mention the Talbot s by name and they apparently thought we were in the market to buy from them.
Kinda shows their true colors.............. Gotta put on that good guy face for a potential sale!
tlhdocI m thinking this is getting interesting enough for local news coverage. Reading the reply Larry received making it clear they don t really care about their buyers as long as they are a top seller (this is what I got from that reply) might interest quite a few people in the state.
Just a thought...
tlhdocThis is the third time I ve tried to post this, I hope it works this time.
Jeffrey, I think I understand what you mean when you say that you hope we didn t make things worse by jumping on this so soon. Sometimes we can antagonize someone who may have done things if left to their own devices, and we get nowhere. But in this case, I feel that Debby and Mike were within their rights to ask for satisfaction right from the start. When the Walt Michals service Dept put the bike rack on the wrong camper, it should have been a simple matter. " Oops, we goofed." and then put the rack on the right camper. To expect them to accept a camper that they weren t buying just because of a goof up on the dealerships s part was wrong, and even tho I don t have a law degree, may have been illegal. Add to that all the other problems within such a short time span, and I think Debby and Mike would have been remiss not to address the issue immediately. It sounds as tho this dealer has the idea that he can just pat the customer on the back and tell them what they are going to do, rather than asking him what HE should do for them. And from the emails that others have been getting, he sounds arrogant, especially when you read the remarks about being concerned about bad publicity from one small (790 members as of right now) forum like ours. Maybe some of the members of PUT that also belong to some of the other camping forums, like PUX and others, should start to drop him a line, mentioning that they heard of this matter from the PUT Arvee club. Might just get him to thinking about the power of word of mouth. Just MHO.
T
[;)]
tlhdocI think you need old Walt s address. The e-mails are probably stopping in the sales (or service) department. Got to go to the Service Manager s BOSS. Or the main guy (Boss) in charge of trailer prep.
tlhdoc
QuoteJeffrey, I think I understand what you mean when you say that you hope we didn t make things worse by jumping on this so soon. Sometimes we can antagonize someone who may have done things if left to their own devices, and we get nowhere.
Yes, that s what I meant.
You have to know when to hold em
...and know when to show em.... and fold em........ etc., etc., etc.
Did you notice the email says
Our management team
was dealing with........
I guess they could get more people emailing..... If they think it s helping?
So far from the very little I can figure out, it doesnt seem to be helping.
It seems to be making them madder and less helpfull, if that s even possible?
And the dealer is holding the PU!
MPTDATHi all!! I have missed having you guys around for support during the last week and a half of hell. I have contacted FOX-2 News Problemsolvers, Ruth to the Rescue on channel 4, and the Channel 7 investigaters. We have also lodge a complaint against them through the Attorney General of Michigan and am going to call the bank we went through and have them to put the matter into arbitration until the matter is settled. I still haven t heard from the BBB. I have made copies of all our paperwork and am going to be printing out my log that I started when this got to be serious. Since I haven t been able to update since September 11th, here is the part of my log you have missed:
Tuesday, September 16th -
Called Walt Michal s once again about the the bumper storage. They said that Viking will not send it to them. They claim it does not come on that model. They suggest we call Viking directly. I then call Viking and they stated that it does come on that model. We told them what Walt Michal s said and they told us they would send it directly to our house.
Wednesday, September 17, 2003
Received the bumper storage via UPS today as promised.
Friday, September 19, 2003
Went to pick up the pop up. As we were hitching it up, I noticed that the front storage now had black zip ties on it. I then opened the side doors and found my complementary grill to go was missing. I told Pat this. He informed me that they are not responsible for any personal belonging and what happens to them. He was the one who told me it was ok to leave it in there. I left very frustrated.
Sunday, September 21, 2003 -
Jeremy Miller called about 12:30 p.m. He stated that he would like us to stop slandering Walt Michal s on the Pop-up Times website. He asked why would we do that when he is trying to help us. We told him how we had got on there to begin with to let everyone know that we had bought a brand new pop up with all the ammenities that we wanted. My wife was just keeping them informed as to what was going on with it. I told him that nothing on the website was slanderous, it was just facts as to what had happen the last few weeks. He asked what at this point would make us happy. I said, I want my grill to go and some free sheets for the trouble we have been through. He said if he did that would we be willing to go on the website and say that they did everything they could to satisfy us? He asked us to recant everything that was said. I said if he could make us happy, I would be willing to go on the website and tell them that they had made us happy. He said he would call back on Tuesday because he needed to talk it over with some other people at Walt Michal s. We then spent a good portion of the day at the Outdoor Adventures campgrounds, which is a good hour to an hour and a half away. We had to sit through an hour and a half of high pressure sales tactics to get our 7 free days of camping through Walt Michal s. When we finally got home, we decided to pop up the pop up to make sure nothing else was missing from it. We popped the top up. We pulled the canvas back as to not get it caught in the rolling mechanism, found the canvas by the slide out was ripped from the frame. We pulled out the king sized bed with no problem. We then tried to slide open the full sized bed, found something was preventing it from sliding. I checked the rollers again, but it wouldn t move an inch. My wife looked underneath with my shop light to find someone had jammed a shephard s pole tight between the slide out dinette and into the frame wall, actually making a hole in the wall. There was no way to reach it. My wife had to slide her legs underneath and found it was still hard to remove as the pole had gone through the paneling of the wall leaving a hole. Once the slide out and bed were slid out, we tried to put the door in place. The rubber seal around the door was mangled in places. The door still did not fit correctly. This was one of the problem we had to begin with. We looked carefully and found that none of the valances that were supposed to have been ordered were on the pop up. We took pictures of all that we found wrong. We then took all of our personal belongings out of the trailer and left the items that came with it when we bought it. We were hoping they would just take back the trailer and give us our money back.
Monday, September 22, 2003 -
Called Walt Michal s and asked for the service area. They were too busy, so I left a voice mail. I then called back a few hours later and asked to talk to Jeremy Miller. Informed him of all the things that were wrong when we received our pop up back. He told us to bring it back in to service it. He also told us they were willing to give us a new grill to go and bed sheets for each side of the bed.
Tuesday, September 23, 2003 -
Walt Michal s called today, returning the voice mail message from service. I informed the woman as to what the problems were. She informed us that getting the valances from Viking could take up to 6 weeks. We were to set up an appointmane to drop off the pop up for service once again. Went to drop off the pop up for service. Received our grill to go. I was then told that they have the right to refuse me service because I said someone took the one we received out of the storage unit of the pop up while it was in for service here last time. I told him that if he was willing to give me the amount I paid for this pop up, I would be willing to go into something bigger, such as a hybrid. As long as the amount goes directly into the new unit. I just don t want to even deal with this unit anymore. I also told him that if they wouldn t service my unit he would be looking into a legal matter. He just looked at me and said " You do what you have to do" . I then went hom and called Feister RV to see if they could do warranty work. They said they don t want to be involved in the mess we have going with Walt Michal s. The next nearest Viking place is in Detroit somewhere.
This is what I have been putting up with for the last week and a half. The good thing is that the e-mails seem to be wearing down on them!!
-Debby
MPTDATWhat a nightmare. Sounds like everybody would come out way ahead if they would take you up on the deal on a hybrid.
Larry
MPTDATThe service department in that place must be staffed with total idiots. I hope you can get out of the deal. Don t give up we are all on your side.
MPTDATcould your insurance company do anything for you???
MPTDATthis is all so crazy! I d think they would just give you your $$$ back, and take the PU, just to be done with it. I m definately going to e-mail them![>:]
MPTDATJust out of curiousity, is anyone who has read this a lawyer?? I have made copies of all the paperwork and a copy of my daily log to give to my cousin, who is a legal secretary. She is on vacation this week and won t be bringing in anything to show her boss until Monday. I just want to make sure that I have a case before I get my hopes up. If need be, I can e-mail you the entire daily journal for you to look over. Thanks in advance to anyone that can help!!
-Debby
MPTDATI hate that has happened to you.
I have a 2000 Viking 2460 and have not a problem with it.
The only time I had the warranty work was preformed and I got it back as soon as promised..
I ahte teh dealer is giving you the BS run around..
I have enjoyed our PU for over 3 years and not had a bit of problem..
The dealer should back you up.. Sorry for your problems as that gives us Viking owners a bad rep.
randy
MPTDAT
QuoteThe service department in that place must be staffed with total idiots. I hope you can get out of the deal. Don t give up we are all on your side.
Trust me, they are. They can sell the stuff at good prices, but God forbid you have any problems with your unit afterwards. From a service perspective I have never dealt with anyone more incompetent.
MPTDATJust to let you know, Viking called yesterday to tell us that Feister RV is refusing to service our trailer because they do not want to get in the middle of the crap between Walt Michal s and us. The other place that Viking said was ok to service us told us that there was at least a three week waiting list for them to even look at our unit. Connie from Viking said she is calling Walt Michal s and putting pressure on them to fix the unit. She said she would be playing her hand as manufacturer and will keep applying more and more pressure until they agree to fix it. Viking has been wonderful and helpful through this whole ordeal. We still just want our money back though.
-Debby
MPTDATWell, DH called the service manager of Walt Michal s, Casey. He was the one Viking told us to get in touch with because they had talked to him about having to fix our unit. He said " No, we will not be servicing it." and hung up on my DH. Have to call Viking in the morning.
-Debby
MPTDATHow disappointing and typical. They mistreat the customer, and when customer complains, they ignore it, when customer raises hell, they say, we don t want to deal with this rude customer, or something like that.
I wonder how rude they would get, if they were still owed a thousand bucks on this unit !
Also wonder how polite they would be and bent backwards, if they were still owed a big portion of the PU.
I hope they pay for what they are doing to MPTDAT !
MPTDATIs it illegal to record your phone calls? If not I would try calling him again and then play the tape to Viking.
MPTDATI can t believe how all this has played out! I guess I missed this thread in the past and have went back in the last week and read through it. I sure hope all turns out well for you.
MPTDATSo where are you at right now, You have no one to service your trailer?
MPTDATThat s right!! No one to service our trailer. The only place that will do it has a three week back up getting ready for the RV show. After three weeks they will be starting service on units that are in. I wonder how many would be before ours?? They already told us that their customers (ones that bought from them) are first in line. Viking says that three weeks is not an acceptable wait and that is why they are pressuring Walt Michal s. I have a lawyer that specializes in contracts looking for loopholes and what not. I just hope we can get out from under this. I am extremely frustrated.
-Debby
tlhdoc
QuoteORIGINAL: tlhdoc
Is it illegal to record your phone calls? If not I would try calling him again and then play the tape to Viking.
Not sure if it is a state thing for federal, but as long as one of the parties know it is being recorded, it s legal. However, I would tape it just to play back to Viking. May not be able to be used in a court case, but I m sure that Viking would like to hear how a customer is being treated.
It seems that by the way this board has been, most people when they buy a new PU, they stay with the same mfg because of the way they were treated. If they go to look for a different mfg they ask people opinions and if Viking doesn t resolve this, most people wouldn t want to deal with Viking because they are not standing behind the customer.
MPTDATWell, I just got off the phone with Viking. We told them what Walt Michal s said and they told us all they can do is contact their sales rep. and for us to go to the place that has the three weeks wait. This has turned into a complete nightmare.
-Debby
angelsmom10
QuoteORIGINAL: angelsmom10
Not sure if it is a state thing for federal, but as long as one of the parties know it is being recorded, it s legal. However, I would tape it just to play back to Viking. May not be able to be used in a court case, but I m sure that Viking would like to hear how a customer is being treated.
It s a state thing, trust me.
There are 4 posibilities, depending on the state law where the recording is bing made.
[ul]
- No recordings are allowed
- One party consent - Anyone; One party to the conversation must agree to the recording
- One party consent - Law enforcement investigation; One part must consent to the recording and it can only be made under color of a criminal investigation being conducted by a lae enforcement agency
- Two party consent; both (all) parties to the conversation must agree to the recording
[/ul]
Just making the recording may be a felony in your state. Verify first
MPTDAT
QuoteORIGINAL: MPTDAT
Well, I just got off the phone with Viking. We told them what Walt Michal s said and they told us all they can do is contact their sales rep. and for us to go to the place that has the three weeks wait. This has turned into a complete nightmare.
-Debby
Debby,
Is the place with the 3 week wait McGlinch Camper Sales?
If so, that is where we got our Aliner. They are pretty nice there.
It s a small Dealership. The one time we had to have the Aliner in for minor service
they got the job done in a nice timely manor. Dennis (the owner) has been great to deal with. May be worth the wait if that s the place.
MPTDATYeah that s the place! I heard wonderful things about them also. It is just the simple fact that at this rate I might be able to camp around oh.........Halloween! We bought this when we bought it to camp this year and so far....nothing! We have owned the trailer for 6 weeks today. Out of those 6 weeks, the first week was a waiting period for it to get in to get fixed. Then they had it for three weeks and well, now we can t camp with a hole in the wall and an outlet dangling. It is just extremely frustrating thats all.
-Debby
MPTDAT
QuoteORIGINAL: MPTDAT
. It is just extremely frustrating thats all.
-Debby
I am sure it is extremely frustrating. I feel for all you have been through. But unfortunately it seems you have no choice at this time, but to wait. I m thinking some of the delay getting you in has to do with the camper show in Novi. Most of the staff is probably doing the show.
QuoteThen they had it for three weeks and well, now we can t camp with a hole in the wall and an outlet dangling
2 words...............DUCT TAPE [:D]
ForestCreature
QuoteORIGINAL: ForestCreature
QuoteORIGINAL: MPTDAT
Well, I just got off the phone with Viking. We told them what Walt Michal s said and they told us all they can do is contact their sales rep. and for us to go to the place that has the three weeks wait. This has turned into a complete nightmare.
-Debby
Debby,
Is the place with the 3 week wait McGlinch Camper Sales?
If so, that is where we got our Aliner. They are pretty nice there.
It s a small Dealership. The one time we had to have the Aliner in for minor service
they got the job done in a nice timely manor. Dennis (the owner) has been great to deal with. May be worth the wait if that s the place.
I d talk to Dennis at the other place and explain your situation. He may be able to help just to get your business. He may have other work that can wait as people may be done for the season. It s worth a call
ForestCreatureWe talked to the lawyer today and he says that we definitely have a case. He did say however that we should go through the Federal Trade Commission first and if they can t help us, to come back to him. He said it would be cheaper to see if they will help us first. I think I see a ray of hope at the end of the tunnel!!
-Debby
MPTDAT
Quotefor us to go to the place that has the three weeks wait.
Forgive my ignorance, but from everything I ve ever heard about Michigan in the winter, you should be winding down the camping season anyway, no? Look at it that way and maybe it won t hurt so much.
And I agree with a previous comment to mine, duct tape works really well! LOL As for the wall outlets, you just have to improvise and dry camp a bit. Don t let it rain more on your parade than it already has. Good luck. I m following your story and rooting for you.[:)]
ForestCreatureI am glad to here you should be able to get some satisfaction.
ForestCreatureDuct tape seems like a good idea until you go to pull it off! It is practically impossible to get the sticky stuff off! The hole is in the wood paneling and I want to keep it new looking as long as possible. Actually, my DH doesn t want anything to do with this trailer. He refuses to even go in it at this point. He says that he wants a refund. If the outcome is that we have to keep it, we will probably be selling it next spring. It has nothing to do with Viking, this model or anything like that. It is just this particular trailer. He would probably go and get the same model at another dealership. He said he did not pick this trailer to begin with because it didn t look as nice as the other one of the same model.
-Debby
MPTDAT
QuoteORIGINAL: MPTDAT
We talked to the lawyer today and he says that we definitely have a case. He did say however that we should go through the Federal Trade Commission first and if they can t help us, to come back to him. He said it would be cheaper to see if they will help us first. I think I see a ray of hope at the end of the tunnel!!
-Debby
One word of caution here, when it comes to lawyers, they have a lot more money to throw at lawyers and might try to wear you guys out financially. They don t look like the type of people who would not use such tactics. of course if you win, they have to pay for eveything anyways.
Are the tv s or papers not giving any space for your story ? That would move them really fast.
ForestCreatureWith the way this dealer is working, I don t know if I would use it either -- the dealership could turn around and say they you damaged the PU.[:@]
ForestCreature
Quoteof course if you win, they have to pay for eveything anyways.
Birol, That s not the case in the U.S.
If you win a case you don t get your expenses covered.
Unless your lawyer is able to get your expenses added in.
So you could go to court win and make them take back the trailer, and still have to pay your lawyer. So you don t really win either. [&:]
IMO, it s a goofy system.
Jeffrey
QuoteORIGINAL: Jeffrey
Quoteof course if you win, they have to pay for eveything anyways.
Birol, That s not the case in the U.S.
If you win a case you don t get your expenses covered.
Unless your lawyer is able to get your expenses added in.
So you could go to court win and make them take back the trailer, and still have to pay your lawyer. So you don t really win either. [&:]
IMO, it s a goofy system.
Thanks for the info, an eye opener, and I think it is not fair !
ForestCreatureMPTDAT, any news on this yet ?
Jeffrey
QuoteORIGINAL: Jeffrey
Quoteof course if you win, they have to pay for eveything anyways.
Birol, That s not the case in the U.S.
If you win a case you don t get your expenses covered.
Unless your lawyer is able to get your expenses added in.
So you could go to court win and make them take back the trailer, and still have to pay your lawyer. So you don t really win either. [&:]
IMO, it s a goofy system.
Not sure where you got that info. I ve negotiated hundreds of business and consumer lawsuits out of court and I ve never seen a suit filed that did not include attorney fees and court costs. In fact in California the courts have a schedule to as what an attorney can claim for fees based on the amount of the suit.
Even in the times our company has taken a past client to small claims for unpaid fees we have always been awarded the cost of filling, service and such.
ForestCreatureBirol, I am not thinking of any of that crap today!! It is my birthday!!
-Debby
MPTDATHAPPY BIRTHDAY
MPTDAT
HAPPY BIRTHDAY
[/size] [/color]
ForestCreatureTO YOU...
ForestCreatureHappy, Happy Birthday!!!
T
[;)]
ForestCreatureDebby, I ve been reading this saga and have felt so bad for you and your family. Here is my wish to you....Hopefully this problem shall pass quickly and next year on your birthday you will shake your head and laugh because all will be well and you will be happily camping.
Happy Birthday To You!!!![/size]
ForestCreatureHappy Birthday to you Debby
May your camping problems be gone before the new camping year begins.
ForestCreatureSo what happened?????????????????????????????????
Nick
QuoteBriol -
Quote...of course if you win, they have to pay for eveything anyways.
ORIGINAL - Jeffrey
Birol, That s not the case in the U.S.
If you win a case you don t get your expenses covered.
Unless your lawyer is able to get your expenses added in.
So you could go to court win and make them take back the trailer, and still have to pay your lawyer. So you don t really win either.
IMO, it s a goofy system.
QuoteNick-
Not sure where you got that info. I ve negotiated hundreds of business and consumer lawsuits out of court and I ve never seen a suit filed that did not include attorney fees and court costs. In fact in California the courts have a schedule to as what an attorney can claim for fees based on the amount of the suit.
Even in the times our company has taken a past client to small claims for unpaid fees we have always been awarded the cost of filling, service and such.
Thanks, Nick. I was going to say the same thing. I worked for an attorney for 2 years & we always saw attorney fees & court costs listed in suits. Doesn t mean those fees/costs were always covered with the judgement. But most of the time, those who win & have added the fees/costs in their suit usually get the sum rolled into their settlement.
Peace be with you all.
DanusmomHmmm, I haven t checked this thread in a while.
Well, Nick and Danusmom, maybe your both right and I m wrong.
But my info came from what happened to me a couple years ago. In a very similar situation. And even though it ended in my favor, nobody reimbursed me for my expensives. I still wrote the check to my attorney.
It was explained to me back then, There is actually term used that in someplaces.
It s guaranteed if someone sues and they lose, they are required to cover all costs for both sides. Unfortunately I can t remember what it s called to do a search.
And if you are right why wouldn t their attorney just go forward, why would it be expensive? If they win IYO there would be no cost!
Well, if I ever need that kind of help again, I ll be sure to contact one of you.[;)]
Hopefully I won t! But maybe you should jump in and help on this one.
Jeffrey
QuoteIt was explained to me back then, There is actually term used that in someplaces.
It s guaranteed if someone sues and they lose, they are required to cover all costs for both sides. Unfortunately I can t remember what it s called to do a search.
I believe the term you re looking for is punitive damages.
Any news on this problem? What's happened to the camper?
Any news!!!!
No news is good news???
Well, we haven't heard from the Federal Trade Commission yet. We have to see what they are willing to do. If nothing than we will be filing a law suit against them. On the bright side, I received my missing valances and curtains directly from Viking via UPS. Walt Michal's told us that it would take a minimum of six weeks to get them. We got them in less than 3 weeks after calling Viking directly. I was also told that I should make a police report about the damage to my trailer. I was told by a policeman friend from the county sherriff's office that if damage is done to any property and the people responsible are not willing to fix it or pay to have it fixed, it is considered reckless vandalism, accidental or not. Well, it hasn't come down to that yet, but it is nice to know it is there.
-Debby
Well, my DH decided that we waited long enough for McGlinch to catch up on their repairs after the RV show. When we called them to set up an appointment, they told us that they do not want to be involved in any dispute either. The man DH talked to said they were sick of doing Walt Michal's warranty work because they refuse to service people. They told us that Walt Michal's has already been paid to do warranty work and that they won't see a penny of it unless Viking goes after them for the money. When DH told him we were thinking about sueing Walt Michal's, he told him, "Get in line." Now we have NO ONE to service our trailer. DH then called Viking and told them that he is sick of this and just wants his money back or a brand new trailer. They said they would have someone call him back when people get back from lunch. This is never going to end is it??
-Debby
Looks like this is Viking's chance to make this all right. If they give you a new unit and make you happy, look how many people will know about it and give Viking the respect they deserve for making a horrible situation good. They should also revoke any rights Walt Michal's has to sell Viking products!
If they ignore you, then they are just as bad a manufacturer as the dealer and even MORE people will know about them not standing behind their products and dealers.
Good luck and keep us informed!
Quote from: campingboatersLooks like this is Viking's chance to make this all right. If they give you a new unit and make you happy, look how many people will know about it and give Viking the respect they deserve for making a horrible situation good. They should also revoke any rights Walt Michal's has to sell Viking products!
If they ignore you, then they are just as bad a manufacturer as the dealer and even MORE people will know about them not standing behind their products and dealers.
Good luck and keep us informed!
I hope Viking makes you happy. happy might not necessarily mean a new unit, but you getting what you wanted, or reconditioning your unit to that status or any other compensation you both agree that it is fair.
I hope Viking will make things right for you. I also hope they will pull the franchise from Walt Michal. If I was a manufacturer I would not want a dealer selling my product that wouldn't make things right if there was a problem or that did not do what they said they would. If Viking does step in, it will show just how good of a manufacturer they are.
From everything you have gone thru, I'd first demand my $$$ back, if that is not an option, then a "NEW" PU and a NEW DEALER to work with.
We got two phone calls yesterday. One was Charlie from Viking. He is also the Viking rep. for Walt Michal's RV. He enlightened us on two things. One - Walt Michal's service department is not owned by Walt Michal's. Most of our problems are with this other company. Two - McGlinch RV will service our trailer because they get paid extra from Viking to take care of Walt Michal's problems. Now, if they have so many problems with Walt Michal's that they have to pay another dealer to take care of them, why don't they just not let Walt Michal's sell their product??
The second phone call was from McGlinch saying that they would be servicing our trailer. We take it in tomorrow. We have a list of at least a dozen or so problems.
-Debby
Quote from: MPTDATWe got two phone calls yesterday. One was Charlie from Viking. He is also the Viking rep. for Walt Michal's RV. He enlightened us on two things. One - Walt Michal's service department is not owned by Walt Michal's. Most of our problems are with this other company. Two - McGlinch RV will service our trailer because they get paid extra from Viking to take care of Walt Michal's problems. Now, if they have so many problems with Walt Michal's that they have to pay another dealer to take care of them, why don't they just not let Walt Michal's sell their product??
The second phone call was from McGlinch saying that they would be servicing our trailer. We take it in tomorrow. We have a list of at least a dozen or so problems.
-Debby
Glad that you are getting a little more -- hopefully McGlinch will do a lot better job.
Quote from: MPTDATWe got two phone calls yesterday. One was Charlie from Viking. He is also the Viking rep. for Walt Michal's RV. He enlightened us on two things. One - Walt Michal's service department is not owned by Walt Michal's. Most of our problems are with this other company. Two - McGlinch RV will service our trailer because they get paid extra from Viking to take care of Walt Michal's problems. Now, if they have so many problems with Walt Michal's that they have to pay another dealer to take care of them, why don't they just not let Walt Michal's sell their product??
The second phone call was from McGlinch saying that they would be servicing our trailer. We take it in tomorrow. We have a list of at least a dozen or so problems.
-Debby
Ha ! I knew Viking would come through with this problem ! I hope they work efficently and take care of all the problems you have had ! I also hope that the other dealer will get what is coming their way ! Revoking of their dealership ! They surely deserve it. It is not an excuse that another company is doing the service, I am sure the same owner owns both parts ! Or sub contracted or something !
YEA, something is getting done at last. :)
I find it hard to believe that a company could be in the selling business and not the service end too. I think Birol may be right. On paper they are two companies, but in reality I bet they are one.
Seems shady to me -- gives them an out and blame the other. That is why at work, I want a company who services from start to finish, then new excuses:eek:
Quote from: MPTDATOne - Walt Michal's service department is not owned by Walt Michal's. Most of our problems are with this other company.
-Debby
Let's see, 1) the service department is physically attached to the showroom, 2) I have personally seen Walt Michals himself talk to people in the Service Department, 3) The idiot who sold me my trailer while in sales was working in the service department the last time I saw him there, 4) all of my invoices from the Service Department say "Walt Michals" on the top, 5) when you call Walt Michals and say transfer me to service, they do and they say they are not owned by Walt Michals? Now all this is dated back to prior to 2001 when I last visited that place but it certaintly looked like it was part of the same company to me back then. This sounds like some kind of tax dodge or some way for Walt Michals to separate themselves from service for some quality or customer satisfaction ratings reason.
Debby, I sincerely hope you get all this resolved and go on to many exciting camping adventures. I know I learned a lesson five years ago and your trials and tribulations reinforce it, shop for the dealer first and then find the best camper they offer that suits your needs. Good luck with your new dealer, take it easy on them, they get stuck with angry customers off the bat when they had nothing to do with the problem and they don't get any commission on the original sale to boot. It sounds like others on this board have had good experiences with them and I am sure if you work with them they will work well with you.
Quote from: Jim in MichiganLet's see, 1) the service department is physically attached to the showroom, 2) I have personally seen Walt Michals himself talk to people in the Service Department, 3) The idiot who sold me my trailer while in sales was working in the service department the last time I saw him there, 4) all of my invoices from the Service Department say "Walt Michals" on the top, 5) when you call Walt Michals and say transfer me to service, they do and they say they are not owned by Walt Michals? Now all this is dated back to prior to 2001 when I last visited that place but it certaintly looked like it was part of the same company to me back then. This sounds like some kind of tax dodge or some way for Walt Michals to separate themselves from service for some quality or customer satisfaction ratings reason.
Debby, I sincerely hope you get all this resolved and go on to many exciting camping adventures. I know I learned a lesson five years ago and your trials and tribulations reinforce it, shop for the dealer first and then find the best camper they offer that suits your needs. Good luck with your new dealer, take it easy on them, they get stuck with angry customers off the bat when they had nothing to do with the problem and they don't get any commission on the original sale to boot. It sounds like others on this board have had good experiences with them and I am sure if you work with them they will work well with you.
They sound even shardier now. Since Viking doesn't seem to care enough about the problems with this service department, I don't know if I'd ever consider a Viking -
Just thought I would share pictures of what "Walt Michal's" service department did to our beautiful new pop up. All we wanted was the door and the outlets fixed!!
http://home.hpphoto.com/servlet/com.hp.HPGuestLogin?username=mptdat&password=53440064
Goes to main page - need to correct the link
I hope that worked!! Try the link again!!
Quote from: MPTDATI hope that worked!! Try the link again!!
There should be a law against Pupup torture !
You wouldn't think that the original damage would have been that hard for them to fix. :(
Quote from: tlhdocYou wouldn't think that the original damage would have been that hard for them to fix. :(
It wouldn't have been, but this looks like the Three Stooges were inside with a 10 foot 2X4. Not acceptable!
This looks like they sent in an 8 yr old and said, "tear the place apart". Are you positive this is even your camper, the one you took to them?
T
;)
Yes. I am positive this is our camper!! DH told them this was not acceptable and they told us that they can no longer service our unit because we accused them of the damage and taking our grill 2 go. Nice huh?? Whatever you do, stay away from Walt Michal's RV Center in Belleville, Michigan!!!
Quote from: MPTDATWhatever you do, stay away from Walt Michal's RV Center in Belleville, Michigan!!!
I just wanted to repeat this for you. Anybody else wanna repeat it?
Quote from: brainpauseI just wanted to repeat this for you. Anybody else wanna repeat it?
Whatever you do, stay away from Walt Michal's RV Center in Belleville, Michigan!!!
Quote from: angelsmom10Whatever you do, stay away from Walt Michal's RV Center in Belleville, Michigan!!!
Whatever you do, stay away from Walt Michal's RV Center in Belleville, Michigan!!!
By the pics it looks almost like they used all defective parts to make your PU.
Quote from: birolyou dWhatever o, stay away from Walt Michal's RV Center in Belleville, Michigan!!!
Whatever you do, stay away from Walt Michal's RV Center in Belleville, Michigan!!
I haven't read every response to this, but have read enough to know that ENOUGH IS ENOUGH:mad: It's time to get a lawyer if you haven't already done so and be done with it. Let them take care of it.
Hey Flacamper, We made that same recommendation to them some time ago in a personal e-mail.
If competent counsel, someone who specializes in your states warranty law is not retained, then this is going to continue to be a very long thread with most likely an unhappy ending.
My fear is that you have waited so long you may have already waived some of your rights. Run, don't walk to a good product warranty lawyer. You can find one through your local Bar Association. But do not go to your friend or neighbors general family lawyer or personal injury lawyer. Nor should you talk to some legal secretary or clerk in some law office in order to have them talk to a lawyer where they practice some unknown law......Good luck!
This absolutely has gone on for far too long. Get legal advise.
From what I recall, they did speak to a lawyer and the lawyer suggested they go through the Federal Trade Commission first, to see if it could get resolved that way.
Is this correct, MPTDAT?
After seeing all the damage, wonder if it can be claimed on you PU insurance and let the insurance company go after the dealership.
I'd think it would be just like the PU sitting in driveway and someone damaging it, the insurance should cover it.
Right now we are just sort of chilling out waiting. Waiting to see if they fix everything on our PU. Waiting to hear from the Federal Trade Commision and the numerous other agencies we have complained to. From what I understand, there are many people ahead of us in line to sue Walt Michal's. The whole situation has just got us frustrated. By the time our turn comes up how long into the future will that be? We just want out. I am thinking we are going to sell the PU come next spring and try to forget the whole situation. We can go back to a Jayco like DH wanted to begin with. At least we know that dealer is good. I don't know. I just wish something could happen and fix everything.
-Debby
If others are have legal action pending against them, that could explain why the service department is "not owned" by Walt Michal's. :confused:
Quote from: tlhdocIf others are have legal action pending against them, that could explain why the service department is "not owned" by Walt Michal's. :confused:
How convenient for them ...... Under one roof, two different companies .....I am sure they will get nailed. MPTDAT, please keep us updated on how the repairs are going. Did the other Viking dealer get the PU yet ?
Yeah they have it. We brought it in last Friday. They told us it could take up to 3 weeks to get the paneling (where the hole is) and the shower cabinet. (The outlet that was "fixed" by Walt Michal's was in the shower cabinet. Nice that that is the one that was left hanging by the wires 'ay? You don't think they were trying to electricute us or anything do ya??) This guy seems very competent and nice. He is just tired of fixing Walt Michal's mistakes all the time. Charlie from Viking was supposed to call us back last week about the free sheets Walt Michal's told us we would get. I guess we will have to call him back AGAIN!!
-Debby
Quote from: MPTDATYeah they have it. We brought it in last Friday. They told us it could take up to 3 weeks to get the paneling (where the hole is) and the shower cabinet. (The outlet that was "fixed" by Walt Michal's was in the shower cabinet. Nice that that is the one that was left hanging by the wires 'ay? You don't think they were trying to electricute us or anything do ya??) This guy seems very competent and nice. He is just tired of fixing Walt Michal's mistakes all the time. Charlie from Viking was supposed to call us back last week about the free sheets Walt Michal's told us we would get. I guess we will have to call him back AGAIN!!
-Debby
I am glad that things are being fixed, after a lot of unnecessary suffering and stuff. I guess this drove home the message "buy from a good dealer" for me !
What you wrote about Charlie from Viking reminds me sort of myself, When I was working for Nortel as a QA manager for one of their product, I had so many calls to return to, so many fires to fight, I would not be able to make those calls on time. I just had no time to do everything I was supposed to do, maybe Charlie is in the same situation ? After all they arranged for your PU to be fixed at another dealer (I bet that costs them money), and I am sure they lined everything up for other stuff.
I hope everything will be fixed to your satisfaction, and I hope The dealer gets punished for what they put you thru. At this stage I am thinking they (the dealer) should have to compensate you somehow because you missed a complete camping season.
Well, McGlinch RV just called and said that our pop up is done. Does that seem like enough time to get everything fixed?? I guess I just expected them to have it a lot longer. We are going to go pick it up in a few hours. I just hope everything is fixed! I will be so happy if it is!!
-Debby
You might want to set it up and check it out at the dealer. That way if there is anything not to your liking, you can tell them about it right away and not have to tow it back and forth again. Good luck, I hope this is the end of your problems.
Quote from: MPTDATWell, McGlinch RV just called and said that our pop up is done. Does that seem like enough time to get everything fixed?? I guess I just expected them to have it a lot longer. We are going to go pick it up in a few hours. I just hope everything is fixed! I will be so happy if it is!!
-Debby
Well.........how did it go?? Hope they got it all done to your satisfaction.
Inquiring minds want to know!:J
Larry
Quote from: MPTDATWell, McGlinch RV just called and said that our pop up is done. Does that seem like enough time to get everything fixed?? I guess I just expected them to have it a lot longer. We are going to go pick it up in a few hours. I just hope everything is fixed! I will be so happy if it is!!
-Debby
Maybe McGlinch wants to get it fixed and get it out of there instead of having it hanging around for weeks when they have others wanting in to get winterized, etc. Also, it may seem like a lot to you to fix, but for a dealer who does all this stuff all the time, this may be small potatoes to them. But I'd be sure to set it up (in front of them if possible) so you can check the work before you leave. And if everything's AOK, I'd be back within the week with a big plate of cookies or something and a nice thank you note to them. They didn't cause your damage, but they're fixing it and it sounds like they did it quickly.:)
Come on you can tell us how it went, or did you run out and go camping in it??? :D
Actually, we picked it up and haven't set it up yet. Just as we were pulling up to the place, it started pouring down rain. He went through the list my husband gave him and told us what he did and even gave us some extra weatherstripping for the door. He said that that happens alot and we may need it later. He also made sure the water tanks were empty for the winter and so forth. He said if we find anything at all not to our satisfaction to give him a call. He seems like a very nice guy. If it ever stops raining around here, we will set it up. Actually, it did stop pouring but it is drizzling right now. Not to mention DH is at work. He wants to set it up. I hope everything is alright now.
Quote from: MPTDATHe also made sure the water tanks were empty for the winter and so forth.
Did he winterize it? Or just make sure the tanks were empty? Better find out.
Fresh water
and Hot water tanks, I assume.
Quote from: MPTDATHe said if we find anything at all not to our satisfaction to give him a call. He seems like a very nice guy.
The few minor thing that needed to be done to our Aliner, they did well and quickly. I'm going to guess that things will be fine for you as well.
Yes, they are very nice there. It's always been a good experience dealing with McGlinch for us. When our vent cover dissappeared driving up 75 on our first trip they gave us a whole new vent assembly, not just the cover that we needed. It was due to our error that it flew away, so this was something he did not have to do.
He made sure both tanks were empty. DH had already blown the lines with compressed air to get all the water out. He wants to add RV antifreeze to it. He also showed us where the fuse for the battery is and how to unhook it, etc. We hadn't had a battery on our old PU. We haven't had the new one long enough to really go over everything while reading the instructions. I like to have it in front of me so that I know what the book is talking about. I know I plan on reading up all winter so that first chance we get, we can go camping and we will know what the hell we are doing!! Our old PU didn't have half the stuff on it. That is if DH doesn't decide to just sell it, he is still talking about that. He thinks it is jinxed or something. I think I would like to camp in it at least once in it since if we do sell it, it isn't considered new anymore. Especially with all the repairs that have been done already. If we camp in it at least I can honestly say weather or not everything is "like brand new". Ya know.
-Debby
If you enjoy it now, Why sell it.... You are going to get hammered on the $$$$. Just camp in it for a year or so, and see how it goes. This whole thing wasn't the camper's fault. :(
Quote from: MtnCamperIf you enjoy it now, Why sell it.... You are going to get hammered on the $$$$. Just camp in it for a year or so, and see how it goes. This whole thing wasn't the camper's fault. :(
Very well stated ! If the camper is now how you wanted it to be, please keep it and give it a good home :S I know you went thru hell to get what you wanted, but we all go thru tough times sometimes before something is exactly what we want it to be.
The problem was the with the dealer not the trailer. Un less you continue to have trouble, you might want to think about keeping it. I remember how excited you were you first posted about buying the trailer. :)
Quote from: tlhdocThe problem was the with the dealer not the trailer. Un less you continue to have trouble, you might want to think about keeping it. I remember how excited you were you first posted about buying the trailer. :)
Well, if you still not like it, park it at my driveway :D :D :D :D
I am so glad it sounds like you were FINALLY treated well! Pretend next year you have a brand new '04 camper, and forget about this year! ;)
-Teri
MPTDAT, did you set it up yet ? I hope the weather cooperated and you could. I hope everything was fixed to your satisfaction, I know it is not the same with having it perfect when you got it, but in no time you will forget those bad memories. Please let us know ...
:S Debby, this is such good news. Now I hope that when you can actually camp, it will be such a happy occasion that it will take away all the bad memories and you will only experience sweet times in it. We have been following your long saga with great interest and concern, and by sharing it with us, you may have saved other members from a similar unpleasant awakening. It is easy to trust people in the excitement of buying a camper and sometimes that trust is abused. So it doesnt hurt to be careful, and your tale of woe proves it.
Just think of all the positive feedback and views that McGlinch has gotten, :S
versus the negative feedback and views that Walt Michal received. :mad:
Larry
O.k. new problem! I don't know if you recall, but Walt Michal's promised us free sheets for our pop up on the day they refused us service. My DH told Jeremy Miller that if they can't service us they at least need to compensate us by giving us the sheets. He agreed. Well, when Charlie from Viking called the other day, DH mentioned it to them. He stated he has not been able to get in touch with Walt Michal's and they haven't returned any of his phone calls. (Imagine that!!) He said to give him a few days and he would call us back. He never called. DH decided to call him back. He was not in but a nice lady, Connie, told us she would talk to Charlie and get back with us. She called back day before yesterday. She told us that Charlie still can't get in touch with them, but she could give us a deal on the sheets. We explained to her that Walt Michal's promised us free sheets. She asked us what the date of purchase and what date did he promise us the sheets. Since I have been logging everything, I was able to tell her dates and even times!! She looked it up and said Walt Michal's has not ordered any sheets from them in quite a while and that no orders have been put in for sheets since before we bought our PU. She suggested that we get in touch with Walt Michal's. She thinks that we, as the customer they have screwed over and over, would have more luck getting in touch with them than the manufacturer they are representing. Does that make any sense to anyone??
-Debby
Quote from: MPTDATO.k. new problem! I don't know if you recall, but Walt Michal's promised us free sheets for our pop up on the day they refused us service. My DH told Jeremy Miller that if they can't service us they at least need to compensate us by giving us the sheets. He agreed. Well, when Charlie from Viking called the other day, DH mentioned it to them. He stated he has not been able to get in touch with Walt Michal's and they haven't returned any of his phone calls. (Imagine that!!) He said to give him a few days and he would call us back. He never called. DH decided to call him back. He was not in but a nice lady, Connie, told us she would talk to Charlie and get back with us. She called back day before yesterday. She told us that Charlie still can't get in touch with them, but she could give us a deal on the sheets. We explained to her that Walt Michal's promised us free sheets. She asked us what the date of purchase and what date did he promise us the sheets. Since I have been logging everything, I was able to tell her dates and even times!! She looked it up and said Walt Michal's has not ordered any sheets from them in quite a while and that no orders have been put in for sheets since before we bought our PU. She suggested that we get in touch with Walt Michal's. She thinks that we, as the customer they have screwed over and over, would have more luck getting in touch with them than the manufacturer they are representing. Does that make any sense to anyone??
-Debby
I can see their point, as they seem to have corrected the problems. They didn't "scr&w" you over as Walt did, but I don't think that Walt will return your call any easier. I think they should just go ahead and give you a set of sheets -- what can their cost be (max $50 - I guess) -- GREAT CUSTOMER RELATIONS to me.
my unsolicited two cents: I have no idea about Viking sheets, but the free sheets we got with our coleman, although we appreciated the gesture, aren't the most comfortable things I've slept on... it might not be worth your time or trouble to chase these down.
I'd give up on the sheets and walk away, chalk it up to lessons learned. Seems a lot easier to drive to Target or one of the linen stores and spend a few bucks for some matching sheets, without the hassle of dealing with the idiots at WM any more.
One thing I have learned is to get everything in writing if I were to buy from a new dealer. You can go after the Walt Michael's to get them, but I doubt if you will get anything from them. You have shown them for what they are, :mad: so I doubt that they will give them to you now.