I went to the RV show in Tampa Florida yesderday, and looked at a 2003 Tacoma.
It came with Furnace, 13500 A/C, Hot water & outside shower, show price $7995.00 MSRP $10,235.00. They threw in an extra fan/light combo and Decor Package (Vanity mate, sink cover/ cutting board, Camper caddie) and a folding love seat, looks like a double folding lawn chair. For $35.00 a screen room or $135.00 an add a room. The dealer said that the add a room cost over $500.00, I think that is what he said? Dealer prep. $200.00 no destination charge or other charges. I put a $100.00 (refundable) deposit to hold it until next week. What do you think? Good deal or bad deal..... Good camper or bad camper.... Add a room or screen room (or niether).
I must say that for " the biggest RV show in the nation" pop-ups were not well represeted. Coleman, Jayco (both presented by the same dealer) and Rockwood. Starcraft had a hugh display but not one pop-up. nobody else. Anyway, please give me some input on the Tacoma.
WatchmanIt sounds like a good price to me. As of last Sept. my dealer was charging $8094 for the same setup with an awning and refrigerator. Coleman has a special each spring and the screen room and AAR sounds like they may be this years special. I have an AAR and I don t use it on every trip, but if we are staying for more than 2 days or the bugs are bad we use it. If you are going to get a room, you might as well get the AAR. It is also a screen room, but it gives you weather protection and privacy that the screen room doesn t. Also if you do get a room, have the dealer install the velcro, velstick and hardware for attaching the AAR to the PU. It isn t hard to do, but the directions stink. Good luck and let us know if you get the trailer.[:)]
WatchmanOops! Forgot, it come with the awning and refrigerator as well.
WatchmanHello?
WatchmanWe have a 2000 Tacoma with AC, heat, fridge, awning, 2 propane tanks, and the Coleman gray water tank. We paid $6750.00 new. It was a left over though. So with the " extras" they are throwing in, I d say it s a good deal. You ll love the floorplan. We do.
WatchmanThanks for the response. We really liked the Tacoma s floorplan. Any input on towing? The dealer recommended sway control. I thought about using the Reese 350 mini WDH on it. Pulling with a Toyota Highlander.
Thanks again!
WatchmanI tow with a Dodge Dakota ext. cab V8 and we have not experienced one bit of sway in the least. I do not have any type of sway control or brakes. Another one of the great things about the Tacoma, is that most of the storage areas are in front of the axle. This puts the weight onto the tongue. Can t really comment on the Toyota Highlander as I am not familiar with it.
WatchmanDoesn t higlander have a tow weigth limit of 3,500 lbs ? GVWR of Tacoma is 3,000 lbs. I would think you are little bit too close to the tow limit of Highlander. (I love that Truck though, I wish I could get my hands on one !).
I also love the floor plan of Tacoma, Hope it works out for you.
Birol
WatchmanTrue... 1900 empty and GVWR 3000lbs. Do you really add 1100lbs to that thing when you camp? I thought that with occupants 1100 would be more than enough and we would still be under the max towing weight. I have had this conversation a couple of times on this forum before and I usually get one of two responses " no problem, you can pull it," or " wow you need to get a Taos" . Then someone gives me a complex scienentific calculation of vehicle weight vs trailer weight. Don t get me wrong I value the input. I encourage it. I listen to all of it. My purpose for asking the members of this forum is to be well informed. My objective has been to get good size pop-up for my family of 4 (or 5 depending on the oldest one) without damaging the TV or being a hazard on the highway. It would be a much easier task if I had bought something with more towing capacity. So what do think? What do you pull with the windstar? It would be better to find out before spending $9000.00 on pup-up that would not work out.
WatchmanYou need to add the weight of anything you add to the vehicle and the trailer. As long as the total isn t more than 1100 pounds you are ok. So if you had 4 150 pound people in the vehicle you could add 500 pounds to the trailer. As long as you don t go crazy you should be OK.[:)]
WatchmanI heard that I get 1 person (170lbs) with the vehicle and all others are added weight, to be considered. Is that true? I am just a tad over that 170 [;)] My wife and two (at home) kids are only add about 200lbs more. I think I am okay there. I was concerned about the added weight of the A/C unit and furnace. I know it might be close, but smaller (10ft) Pop-ups don t remove much weight.
Watchmantow limit of your Highlander is 3,500 Lbs, 75% of that is 2,675 Lbs. Ideally you should not tow anything heavier than that. Take out your wife and kids (200 Lbs), you are looking at 2,476 Lbs fully loaded Tacoma PLUS anything else you have in the car which brings it above its curb weight.
So you can only carry 576 Lbs of stuff in the PU and The TV (Total, that s it) in addition to your family.
If you can achieve that, no body would/should say anything, but I understand weight accumulates quickly. In addition, highlander does not have a long wheelbase, which might make things little bit more difficult.
Isn t there a PU model which has a GVWR of 2,500 Lbs ? That would be ideal for you. IF you can keep the weight to 2,476 Lbs , Tacoma should be just fine too. You would be right at the limits too.
If I am wrong, I know the Tow Gods will correct me :)
Birol
P.S. I do not tow anything :(
WatchmanSomething to think about! Maybe I will look more.
[quote If I am wrong, I know the Tow Gods will correct me :)
[/quote] I know the tow gods well and found them to be very unforgiving[;)]
WatchmanHey, don t misunderstand me, keep the weight down and you should be prefectly ok with Tacoma !
Between you and me. I am going to tow a 19 Bantam Hybrid with my Windstar so go figure ! :):):) I need to drive it to ground for trying to kill me !.
Birol
P.S. Today is the first day I could get out of the car by using my my left leg, yehaaaaaaa.
WatchmanThanks!
Congrats on the rapid recovery!!!![:D]
WatchmanWatchman- couple of things to consider, especially since you haven t laid out any money *yet*.
What s your Highlander equipped with: 4 banger, or V6? Where do you live, and where will you be towing? How much " stuff" do you like to take with you? (I ll plead guilty on this one- we really *do* take the kitchen sink [;)] ) All this figures into the whole package, and that s what you have to consider: all the variables that will combine to become " that which you go camping in" .
True, you have 2000 to 3500 lbs. (standard/maximum... what the heck is " standard" ?) towing capacity, properly equipped. As has already been mentioned, adding cargo to the tow rig will reduce you towing capacity, but don t forget tongue weight-- that will have to be included in the tow rig s cargo weight. Figure 250-300 lbs., more if the trailer is loaded to the max. Sounds like you will need a WDH, others who use them can better answer what you need. Ok, so you figure 200 lbs. for the wife and kids, plus 300 lbs. for the tongue weight, that s already 500 lbs off the 1,325 lbs. cargo capacity of your Highlander. Got some room to spare, but not much. What s else needs to go inside/on the tow rig? Any bikes, fishing gear, canoe, stuff like that? Don t forget that kind of stuff.
Make dang sure you get an inertia-style brake controller. Run, do not walk, away from a time-based controller. With your combination of a maxed out tow rig, a time based controller can be disastrous in an emergency.
The short version is, you can tow the Tacoma, and you can take your family, but you will have to leave your anvil collection at home. [;)] I would be very careful about how much " stuff" I took. You might want to cram everything you think you ll need for a camping trip into your Highlander, add the family, and go down to the local truck stop, cement contractor, or feed center, and have your rig weighed. Then you ll have an idea of how much leeway you have in your Highlander, if any. Sure, some of that is gunna go in the trailer, but it gives you a starting point, and you can weigh individual items at home on the bathroom scale.
Next, remember that the dry weight of your Tacoma doesn t include the furnace, A/C, hot-water heater, outside shower, add-a-room/awning, battery, or liquids (water and propane). This is gunna kick up the " pre-camp" weight of the trailer. What s left is your Tacoma s *real* cargo capacity, and out of that will come the sleeping bags, paper plates, towels, silverware, Lynx levelers, water hoses, folding chairs, food, camp stoves and lanterns, firewood (the Sumo wrestler of cargo items), etc., etc. ... In short, everything else you stow in the trailer. So you are already towing a trailer weighing more than the 1900 lbs. you planned on, and then adding stuff to the trailer from home.
You can see how this adds up quickly.
The final decision is yours. You need to know how much the personal stuff you will take camping weighs. Then you can make a better decision on purchasing the Tacoma. I believe Coleman has the weights of all their options listed somewhere, or give them a call and see how things add up, no pun intended.
Now, a disclaimer: I tow with a relatively large tow rig. Others who tow with smaller rigs may be better able to give you some insight into the " feel" of towing a pop-up with only a 3500 lbs. tow rating. Many report no problems over thousands of miles. But the math is still the same, and it sounds like you are doing your homework already. Good for you, that s the first step.
WatchmanWell, I don t know how much " stuff" you take camping with you, but personally I think you d be fine. While I have and do come here for advice and to give it, IMHO I think some of the folks here get a bit carried away with all this weight calculation stuff. Like the above post. The tongue weight is part of the total weight. You don t automatically subtract it. Just remember to keep your tongue weight around 10 - 15% of the total trailers weight.
Flame away folks, but you got to admit some of you take this weight thing a bit too seriously. I m not saying it s not an important issue. But then again a lot of you tow with a front wheel drive mini-van.
WatchmanBikolee, we are not taking it too seriously, we are just taking it seriously :)
Birol
WatchmanBirol,
First off let me say that I m glad you are here. Now then. I know you don t have a PU or other camper and I m not sure what your towing experience is. I m just saying some folks here take these weight calculations to the extreme. Heck, the way some go about it, one would have to have a Masters Degree is Calculus to figure it out.[:@]
WatchmanBikolee,
Thanks for the nice words. I have no towing experience but understand the mechanisc of towing and the calculations it requires. I just try to give the general guidelines to people who ask the now infamous question :).
I would be tempted to tow a 19 bantam with my Windstar if I had the money, so I don t think I take the calculations too seriously (naa, I won t do it, I am just toying with the idea and teasing you guys)
Birol
Watchman
[:(] AAARRGH!
bikoleeNo flame here, Bill, but a discussion on facts, points of view, and opinions.
A subject like this is not as cut and dry as the average salesman would have us believe. We can t just hook up a trailer and go merrily down the road unless we know how much we are towing, and if it is safe to do so.
I tried to explain what can be a complex subject in fairly generic terms. And certain points must be made: a TV is rated at *only* so much, a trailer *will* weigh so much, tongue weight *will* become part of the TV cargo weight, options of both the trailer and TV are not considered when the cargo capacity (payload in a truck) is listed, and cargo added to the TV must be subtracted from the towing capacity. If you meant that I was adding tongue weight twice, I m not. Tongue weight doesn t subtract from towing capacity, but it does subtract from the TV s cargo capacity. Tongue weight may be part of the trailer s gross weight, but it certainly does impact the tow rig s weight ratings.
Then there are the Iron Rules of towing: GVWR and GCVWR. Not to mention front, rear, and trailer GAWR. If a person does not take this into account, he could load up his brand new " Binford 3000 SUV" tow rig to the limit, cuz that s what he was told he could do, and then hitch up a trailer. That trailer s tongue weight is going to put his rig over the limit. Or, he could be fine with one vehicle s GVWR, and be over his GCVWR. And *if* he gets into an accident, the local cops will certainly not look with favor upon an overloaded traveler, much less the other party s insurance company.
Watchman is doing something too many buyers don t do: getting the " facts" first. I applaud his effort, and offer some advice he can accept, reject, or double-check on his own. That s why we all come to this forum: to learn from each other. I ll be the first to admit I don t know everything (far from it). But if a question is asked with which I can help, I ll try to give as much pertinent information as possible, from my " point of view" . If I m wrong, I ll take my lumps, eat my helping of crow, and learn from the incident. I m sure both of us have only Watchman s best interests at heart. I may tend to be more cautious when telling others how to figure their tow limits, but that s only my " opinion" . [;)]
No harm, no foul, Bill. Just an exchange of ideas.
WatchmanDave, No harm done. I know we are all trying to help each other here. I guess my point about some folks taking this weight thing too seriously was improperly worded. I realize that when trying to tow something with less than a full size pickup, all things must be considered. Now, after saying that I went to the Toyota website to look at some numbers. Below is what I found:
Weights and Capacities 2WD 4WD
Curb weight (lbs.)
4-cylinder/V6 3,485/3,660 3,715/3,880
Gross Vehicle Weight
Rating -- GVWR (lbs.) 4,985 4,985
Payload(2) (lbs.)
4-cylinder/V6 1,500/1,325 1,270/1,105
Towing capacity(3) (lbs.)
4-cylinder
(standard/maximum) 1,500/3,000 1,500/3,000
V6
(standard/maximum) 2,000/3,500 2,000/3,500
Passenger volume (cu. ft.) 105.7 105.7
Cargo volume (cu. ft.)
rear seats in
place/folded 38.5/81.4 38.5/81.4
Fuel capacity (gal.) 19.8 19.8
(2)Includes weight of occupants, equipment and cargo.
(3)Before towing, confirm your vehicle and trailer are compatible, hooked up properly and you have all necessary additional equipment. Do not exceed any Weight Ratings and review all instructions and cautions from your trailer hitch manufacturer and Toyota vehicle Owner s Manual.
Now I m not real sure exactly what they mean by standard/maximum, and they don t give a max. tongue weight rating.
But here are the numbers for a Coleman Tacoma:
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), (lbs) 3,000
Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR), (lbs) 2,650
Unloaded Vehicle Weight, (UVW) (lbs) 1,950
Unloaded Axle Weight, (UAW) (lbs) 1,815
Unloaded Tongue Weight, (UTW) (lbs) 135
Cargo Carrying Capacity, (CCC) (lbs) 860
As one can see from looking at the above numbers, if you load the Tacoma to its GVWR, you have exceeded its GAWR[:(] Go figure. But it looks to me if Watchman has a 2WD V6 Highlander, he should be OK provided he doesn t take everything including the kitchen sink while camping.
Here is a list of items that are in our camper.
2 bag chairs
2 plastic totes containing 4 plastic plates and bowls, 2 coffee cups, 2 plastic drinking glasses, 2 sauce pans, 1 skillet, eating utensils for 4, dish drainer
1 Coleman propane camping stove
1 Weber Little Joe charcoal grill
Lynx Levelors, chocks, fresh water hose, drain hose
13 in TV
The only other things that are added are food, cooler and clothes.
As you can see we haven t loaded up the camper as much as some do.
Now that the numbers are here, maybe someone else could give their opinion/advise. How bout it Sacto?
Wow, I believe this is my longest post ever[8D]
Watchman[;)][8D]Wow Bik. I m starting to think you re taking this too seriously! [;)]
QuoteAs one can see from looking at the above numbers, if you load the Tacoma to its GVWR, you have exceeded its GAWR Go figure.
You forgot about tongue weight. That s the difference. [:)]
Bik, you pack pretty light. We have some pots and pans and eating utensils we keep in there permanently as well as some blankets, space heater, boombox. Won t bother itemizing it all here, but it adds up to about 300 extra lbs
Standard vs. maximum usually means:
Standard = Base towing capacity without tow package
Maximum =Maximum towing capacity with tow package.
SactoCampers
QuoteBik, you pack pretty light.
Hey, we are camping. If I wanted to bring the house with us, I d have a class A RV[8D]
WatchmanOur dealer wouldn t let us off the lot without the sway control bar. And I am glad. With the Dakota Quadcab, I had some sway on the highway on the ride home, probably would have been worse if not for the bar. Of course, the Mesa was empty. I also had a little sway another time due to packing wrong. But again, I think having the bar helped keep it comfortable for me until I could pull over to repack.
The brake controller is a plus as well.
For my family s safety and for my driving comfort, I figure it doesn t hurt to have them.
WatchmanSome thoughts on this thread......
We have a 2002 Tacoma. We bought it as a year end model for about $6800. It was equipped with a Fridge, Furnace, Battery, One LP tank, Awning, Screen Room, 20A converter, Hot Water, and Outside Shower. This price included all destination and prep charges.
We love the floorplan, it works great for our family. The U-shaped sofa comes in especially handy. The outdoor shower is cool - and you can get a privacy shelter for it at JC Whitney for $29. (www.jcwhitney.com)
We tow ours with a Chevy Astro (V6). The tow rating on my Astro is about 5000 lbs. We have been on many trips and have not experienced any sway whatsoever. We are not using an anti-sway bar or a WD hitch, however, I did install some Airlift air bags on the rear end to eliminate the sagging problem. So, you might wanna try it without sway control to see if you need it. The other side of the coin is that it will never hurt to have it - kind of like extra insurance.
As far as towing it with your Toyota, with a 3500 lb tow rating, if you are not overweight, you will be close and pushing your TV to it s limit. I can say after making several trips that I would not push my van to it s towing limit. You would probably not have any issues, however, you might find that you are shortening your tow vehicle s life considerably.