I'm off to Louisville, KY for the RVIA's national trade show on Monday. There I'll meet with all of the pop up makers, see their new models and talk about the future - which right now is bleek for pop ups.
Folding camper sales have dropped by almost 50% since 1999 but they keep making bigger, more equipped models with price tags that make it easier to justify a travel trailer.
Here's your opportunity to tell the RV makers what you want. If you'll concentrate more on features and less on dealer / warranty issues, I'll take your responses to them.
Do you want a camping trailer or a $15,000 folding RV?
Let's tell them.
Please, tell them that for what we pay for these things, we shouldn't have to worry about what part of it is going to fall off on our next camping trip. We know something will, just never know what it'll be. The curtains need some better kind of track assembly, the drawers need better slides and guides, the thermostat shouldn't be right at floor level where the heat never gets to it so that the furnace would turn on and off properly. The manual for the camper should include more comprehensive information for things like the converter. Maybe they could make two models, one for those who go to the State or private campground and grill out and hang around the fire, and a heavier duty model for those who drag the camper into the bush and give it some hard use. It's suppose to be a camper, not a Barbie doll penthouse.
T
;)
Thanks for the opportunity Dave.
I think it is quite common for people to have leaking plumbing problems, I would like them to replace the plastic hoses and sink drain with standard household lines. That way I wouldn't have had needed to replace them.
Drawer slides that don't break.
Also, they put bends into their paper-thin ABS panels, which create weak points. These weak points are cracking in many units, so they should either eliminate the bends, thicken the ABS or reenforce the weak points.
There has to be a better way to attach the propane tank to the frame. The hook-and-bolt method is difficult at best, and it's nearly impossible not to mangle the threads in the process of replacing the tank.
It would be cool if they could incorporate solar material into the bunk ends...very cool indeed.
Nothing earth-shattering. But sure would be nice additions.
Scott
Here are my thoughts:
1.) I would like to see some kind of system that pulls the canvas in while you're cranking down the roof. Walking around the popup 3-4 times while popping down adds to breakdown time. I think even a loop-and-string system on all sides that we could pull on from the outside would be effective.
2.) I agree with Scott, non-leaking plumbing would be great
3.) More sturdy dinette tables. I'm not talking heavier, just better designed so they don't wobble around.
4.) All manufacturers should use high pressure propane lines for cooking outside and the stoves should be compatible with both systems. Flip a switch on the stove for indoor or outdoor use.
5.) All should use RV-style awnings that roll out/in by themselves.
6.) Start using lighter weight materials. If I have to pull a well-equipped popup with an SUV or minivan, as much as I like popups I'll get a hybrid instead. Maybe design a lighter weight canvas...that stuff is heavy. On the other hand, I could ask the auto manufacturers to make minivans with higher tow ratings (and they have recently). The king-sized bunk ends are really heavy to hold up while attaching the support poles.
7.) Give consumers certain package combinations to choose from, not just one. For example, the outdoorsy type might want rant roof racks for their popup to put the bikes, an extra propane tank, batteries, and/or small generator. Whereas somebody else might want the interior decor pack, sliding front storage trunk tray, add-a-room, etc. While another might want beefier suspension, diamond coated front, 15" off-road tires solar panels etc. Their marketing teams should know which type of customers want which types of features because I don't, I'm just giving suggestions.
8.) Little things like the ball-on-a-rod hitching up assist system would be a nice freebie to throw in.
9.) Make all of the popups compatible with WDH systems. Even the smaller ones. That may allow some mid-size cars to pull the lighter ones without exceeding their rear axle capacity.
10.) Floor insulation. Styrofoam is cheap and lightweight.
11.) Model-specific reflector panels for the bunkends and also for the interior for cold weather camping. They could attach/detach by velcro I've found they are effective at preventing excessive heat loss. Removable reflector sheets under the mattresses are lightweight, cheap, and pretty darn effective at keeping you warm. Costs less than heated mattresses, too.
12.) 12-volt cigarette style receptacles hooked up to the battery system, standard. While they're at it, make an inverter an option so the AC plugs can still work while on battery power. Fully educate consumers about the risks and limitations of this type of system.
13.) Ditch the white linoleum. It shows dirt in 5 minutes.
14.) Quick release propane tanks.
15.) Swing away tongue, like Trailmanor. Most of us can fit our popups in our garage, but another two feet would be welcome! Some have bought smaller popups because they didn't have another two feet.
16.) I would personally like a pop-up sink. I know I would lose cabinet space, but I can't access the storage aisle in my popup when popped down because my sink blocks it. Also, the swing-down galleys block storage space. Either way, there's a sacrifice, and I'm willing to concede permanent cabinet storage to gain access to my center aisle for storage while traveling.
17.) 10-foot slideout with cassete potty shower.
I don't think most of my suggestions add that much weight or cost to a popup. Finally, I think it's a mistake to focus the popup market on the higher end models to compete with hybrids and travel trailers. That approach isn't what made popups successful in the 1970s. My suggestions appear to conflict with that simplistic approach, but my point is that functionality can be improved while remaining simple.
A Canadian View point. They are losing a lot of market because they are not looking at how these units are actually used. In our provincial park system water hook ups are not available but its a PITA to refill the system using jugs which is how you have to do it. A standard collection system for grey water would be nice. Realistically environmental laws are getting tougher everywhere and we can do our part too! A hot water shower system in a 10' box would be more practical for a usual family of 4 instead of forcing us to go to the bigger heavier models and therefore the bigger tow vehicles (again environmental issues as these vehicles only tow a very minor part of the year). Two queen beds instead of the double/king combo would be helpful also, this again in reference to family issues my 2 preteen girls cannot share that double bunk its just too small. Awnings that are more user friendly... it takes 2 to deploy most of them out there now.
Hope some of this helps.
As you know I'm new here and have never owned a trailer. I've been camping on the ground in a tent for years and already have a lot of camping equipment, most of which is in great condition.
I've been looking at trailers for 2 months now. I've seen new & used, big and small, some with everything, some even nicer than my house.
Here's what I'm looking for -
Something simple to pull with my small pickup or my wife's minivan.
Simple to manuver around a campsite and setup.
Something that is big enough to stand in (I'm 5'10).
I want a tent doesn't leak and windows with screens & flaps.
I want an electric hook up for private campgrounds and a big battery with solar charging for remote camping.
I want a water hook up for campgrounds and a 15-20 gallon tank for remote camping.
I want something that I won't feel bad about getting dirty.
I want to pay less than $5000
Here is what I'm not looking for-
A microwave, gold trim or designer curtains.
The fabric doesn't need to compete with motorhomes. I prefer the Field & Stream look over the Better Homes and Gardens, at least when camping.
Let me know if you see anything in Louisville that fits my bill.
Dan
Florescent light throughout, especially over the table and the galley!
They are less hungry than the bulbs, and provide a white light. Even skip the fluorescents, just a light above the sink and stove......
Quote from: MtnCamperFlorescent light throughout, especially over the table and the galley!
They are less hungry than the bulbs, and provide a white light. Even skip the fluorescents, just a light above the sink and stove......
Yes! Flourescent lights!
I want a self-cleaning, self-setup unit with programmable controls. :D Just kidding. My wish list would be for a light decor but one that doesn't show dirt immediately, thermostat controls that are easier to read without having to get out the magnifying glass to see the setting. Potty shower in the smaller models (somehow), better builtin drawer storage and shelving. Insulation on the bunk ends,Mildew resistant bunkend covers, and something that doesn't cost as much as a Travel Trailer or Hybrid.
Sounds like most of it was covered above.
One thing I didn't see and think many us of would love to have, is an outside sink with hot & cold taps, and a drain back to the gray tank. Many of us prefer to cook outside, and as such, most of also would rather clean up outside too. Plus having water & sink while cooking out there is helpful. This could be something that simply folds into/out of the side of the trailer. My outside shower sort of works, but doesn't have a sink, no drain, and is on the wrong side of the trailer.
(http://www.gonecamping.net/images/emoticons/iconshower.gif)
(On edit: I do belive the Rockwood Premier Series PU had a sink/stove combo that slid in/out of the trailer)
Someone else mentioned the reflective solar covers. Why do we need to go out and buy these seperately? Seems to me the PU and Hybrid makers are in this for a profit, why not make this an add-on option for extra cost? I'm sure they could come up with an even better system that the 2 or 3 that are out there now.
Mattress is the primary thing that turned me off on my PU's, and even on my current Hybrid. I've got a 2004 trailer, but I'm sleeping on an air mattress. (http://www.gonecamping.net/images/special/xx.gif)
Rockwood PU's have at least used the inner spring mattress with mattress heaters, that's definately a step in the right direction.
Ok, trying to keep it to realistic, actually "do-able" ideas, and not my list of "dream" ideas...
I would LOVE some form of "component" cabinetry. Think about it... the basic *box* could be configured for each trip. Need a cabinet for dishes, or want a gaucho for more sleeping area? Want the dinette on one side, or as a u-dinette on the end? And that dang door that's on the wrong side at most State campgrounds cuz the camp sites were designed fifty years ago? Move it to the other side of the box, insert the removable lower wall section into the door's previous location, zip in the upper wall section and.... Presto! the door is on the other side. (the component cabinetry makes this kind of switch possible since the cabinet that was in the way can now be moved)
If you are going to have a slide-out, make it larger than just the dinette. The Jayco 14SO is a terrific example of this, and the front runner for our next pop-up. If no slide-out, the component interior would allow us to configure the trailer to suite our needs, even while at the campsite (removable camp kitchen?)
I think interior adaptability would be a major selling point, and something not available in hybrids or lower priced travel trailers. The key is to offer something not found in the pop-up's similarly priced RV competition.
A high pressure automatic switchover regulator for dual tank set-ups so the outside stove can be used on both tanks, or a dual-pressure stove, as already noted.
A TRANSFERABLE WARRANTY TO SECOND OWNERS FOR STRUCTURAL COMPONENTS OF THE TRAILER.
Let me repeat that: A TRANSFERABLE WARRANTY TO SECOND OWNERS FOR STRUCTURAL COMPONENTS OF THE TRAILER. This will protect our resale value and encourage us to stay with the same manufacturer on our next RV. And there *will* be a next one, trust us. (Sorry, Dave... but I couldn't resist the warranty thing)
Tires that are not operating at their limit, and easily replaced while on the road. Translation: ever tried to find a replacement 13", 1660 lbs. rated tire in Smalltown, USA?
The ability to "zip in" flexible insulation on the bunk ends. Kind of like adding a layer of Thinsulate or Reflectix for cold weather. Maybe a "zip off" bunk roof, leaving only a screen above the bunk. Great for summer sleeping under the stars.
A sink drain that works first time, every time. Gimmee a break, a drain is dead simple, and gravity operated. It shouldn't take tweaking and modification by the owner to make it work properly.
Stuff that doesn't rattle loose or break just from using it. If you are going to brag about employee craftsmanship or Amish workers making your trailer, remember that Amish furniture is built last *generations*, not months.
A free-standing "E-Z-UP" type of screen/add-a room that can mate to the side of the trailer, or be moved to cover a picnic table. Best of both worlds this way.
Real, live, honest-to-gosh manufacturer participation at PUT. Let us know you are listening, or at least give us your ear. To date, only a couple manufactures that I know of have done this. They are to be commended for doing so.
Ok, there's a good start. When you've got all those taken care of, I'll submit the Secondary List.;)
Dave, Thanks for giving us this opportunity.
Dave, much as we love our TM, we are thanking of keeping it semi-permanently at some nearby mountain property we own and going back to a PU for travel-type camping!
One thing you are dealing with here (and you already alluded to it) is what we want of a popup today. Currently, there seem to be two major markets for popups. Are they to be used for a "resort" type vacation or for camping? If they are entry level RV's then what happens to the price when so many features are added?
I think back to our old 66 or 67 Skamper. It was built like a Sherman tank, had very few amenities (gas furnace, small sink, small freshwater tank, ice box and one or two electric plugs.) But it had a 13' box with dinettes at each end and huge storage bins. The window zippers were huge and never gave us a problem. The large windows themselves had HEAvy clear vinyl zip-up windows in addition to the canvas ones. The canvas was some kind of heavily coated vinyl that NEVER LEAKED. As I look back, I realize we probably abused the thing, yet nothing ever broke.
We covered thousands of miles in it ( four cross-country trips plus many shorter ones and lot of trips Michigan to Georgia and back) pulled behind our station wagons. Once we took 4 teen-age girls and 3 Yorkshire terriers with us on a 5 week trip Michigan to Montana. NO glitz! Now, it seems there is a lot of glitz and at some of the camper shows, the campers seem more flimsy, more like a shiny kids' playhouse.
STURDY. That's what I would like to see.
I realize manufacturers are in a tough spot--Travel Trailers are cheap--often as cheap as a PU or cheaper now, and fold-down customers keep asking for more and more bells and whistles. They want lots of conveniences and luxuries, and all on a light weight, easy-to-use and economical-to-pull wagon-bed which needs to be well-built and sturdy. And it is kind of like the old saying about not being able to please all the people all the time--it probably cannot be done in real life.
New technologies and new "space age" materials are going to make the future of entry-level RV"s very interesting for all of us. I hope to see a long report from you when you get back telling us of the exciting new things going on in the industry and the direction popups are taking.
Dave,
I think people who are looking at pop-ups for the first time are generally going to fall into three groups:
1. Tent campers and others who want to get up off the ground and still CAMP instead of staying in a hotel room on wheels.
2. First time rv buyers who cannot afford a trailer that costs m ore than their tow vehicle
3. Families who want to tow their camper with a mini-van or smaller suv.
Manufacturers need to make quality, reasonably priced units with many available option packages that can be purchased separately and easily installed. Components similar to what you would see on a car dash or on a computer CPU. Prewire, preplumb.
The biggest reason why many people do not even consider a pop-up is the set up and take down. Make that as simple as posible. I like the higher side pop-up that does not require galley flip over or pull down.
Built in sound systems and microwaves plus oven only raise the price. We're camping! Do we need a built in sound system? What happened to a good old fashioned battery operated radio? While I think longingly about an oven in a pop-up, I also wonder just how often I would really use it. Ditch the oven, keep the microwave.
I think one of the real problems with pop-up sales is that people are led to believe that they need something bigger and more upscale and that anything else is slumming. We are a nation of extravagent consumers who are never content with what we have that fills our needs but are always longing for what we WANT whether we need it or not.
Quote from: wssfetchWe are a nation of extravagent consumers who are never content with what we have that fills our needs but are always longing for what we WANT whether we need it or not.
Boy isn't that the truth!
Quote from: wssfetchDave,
I think people who are looking at pop-ups for the first time are generally going to fall into three groups:
1. Tent campers and others who want to get up off the ground and still CAMP instead of staying in a hotel room on wheels.
2. First time rv buyers who cannot afford a trailer that costs m ore than their tow vehicle
3. Families who want to tow their camper with a mini-van or smaller suv.
Built in sound systems and microwaves plus oven only raise the price. We're camping! Do we need a built in sound system? What happened to a good old fashioned battery operated radio? While I think longingly about an oven in a pop-up, I also wonder just how often I would really use it. Ditch the oven, keep the microwave.
I think one of the real problems with pop-up sales is that people are led to believe that they need something bigger and more upscale and that anything else is slumming. We are a nation of extravagent consumers who are never content with what we have that fills our needs but are always longing for what we WANT whether we need it or not.
Wow--there are so many good ideas here coming from members and the statements by WSF (above) and loveourjayco and OnTheGround and others could easily have come from me and my DH.
I made out just fine camping numerous times with kids, dogs, and devoted flyfisherman for over ten years in our Skamper with a little 3 burner gas stove and my Coleman Stove and gasoline lantern and folding oven, and we ate meals ANYONE would be delighted to share in! We were CAMPING not--as others have put it so well--staying in a hotel room on wheels. We like all the bells and whistles on the TM including the oven & hardsided bathroom, but we will NOT be looking for those features in our next popup. We are interested in "camping!" and not in something made with that fake wood with hinges and brackets that break at a touch like others have experinced now and then on the board. I hope someone will consider making something basic but sturdy again because there sure doesnt seem to be anything out there like that now--at least not that I have heard of yet.
PS--some people want and need all those conveniences, and their desires and needs should be respected and accommodated; it is just that we are at a different stage of life in our family and are looking for simplicity once more. :W
( I also recognize the fact that DH and I, in our needs just now, are part of a tiny minority and that manufacturers must make what sells most readily. I dont fault them for that at all for doing what gives them good market share
Features I want in a PU:
1. I would like to have the bunkend windows have see through vinyl with curtains or zippered flaps covering the window. That way when the weather is not nice (cold, windy, raining, hot and the AC is on) you could see out with the windows closed.
2. Access to the refrigerator when the top is down.
3. A bigger refrigerator with a fan built in to help exhaust the hot air in the back of the unit.
4. I would like an oven.
5. I like the idea of the hight wall trailers where you don't have to fold the galley and dinette down.
6. Shower/cassette potty option in smaller trailers.
7. Back up lights.
8. Outside storage.
I have to agree with the first post: "we shouldn't have to worry about what part of it is going to fall off on our next camping trip." I too would like to see a better track for the curtains, better drawer systems (or no drawers - make big bins that we can USE) and ditto for the thermostat... I'm too old to sleep on the ground, which means I'm too old to crawl under the table to see/ turn on the furnace. Finally, they really need to get rid of the cheap plastic plumbing parts - it's enormously aggravating to set up and wind up with water spraying all over when one of those crappy lines breaks.
Manufacturers would do well to take a look at this website and see what so many campers have done for modifications.
I'm interested in camping. I don't need to feel like I'm in a hotel room. (And I'm a girl!)
Utility, utility, utility.
I would like a pop-up that combined the features of the Jayco Baha and the Jayco Eagle Select 12HW. The Baha has simple, easy set-up, basic features in a 10 foot box, and the Select has the new high sides to allow more storage & possibly a fixed position sink. Our '95 Eagle 8 has a flip over sink, & I really wish there could be another option.
Like most every one else, price is important. I like my camper simple, but most of the new models are overloaded with features that really do not appeal to me.
My ideal camper would be:
10 foot box. I love the space of my 12 foot box, but would like my PU to be able to fit in my garage. A 10 foot box would be a great comprimise, if the following could be accomidated.
King bunk on one end, Queen bunk on the other end. The King/King combo is kind of a wastefull, unless you have two adult couples, which is not typical.
A slide out dinnette, with the 10 foot box. The slide out seems to make a great difference in the spacious feel.
And of course, materials that don't break.
I often thought that if I were to upgrade to a travel trailer , a toy hauler (i.e. Weekend Warrior) would be great, even though we don't have any toys like ATC, dirt bikes, etc. This is because there is much functional space, minimal fancy dancy cabinetry, etc. So, if that same philosiphy could be carried into a pop up or hybrid, that would be pretty cool.
Since I don't have much knowledge of other pop-ups, I'll just address what I would change in our current one (Coleman, Sun Valley) - which by the way is almost perfect!
1. It seems as if a simple block of wood mounted under the drawer slides would prevent them from breaking annually.
2. I'd like curtains on the bay window so I could leave the window open in the warm weather and not have people looking in while I'm sleeping (I know it's remote that that would happen but I feel funny anyway.) I'm sure they don't put them there because of the stove but if there were tie-backs on them you could tie them out of the way for cooking, a lot of us cook outside most of the time anyway.
3. I'd like the couch to be just a little wider so you don't feel like your falling off it.
4. If I were to purchase a new pop-up
a. I'd like one that didn't take so many cranks to raise the roof. (we're
getting older you know)
b. I'd like the larger of the bunks to be on the back side not over the hitch
(I know, it's probably a weight thing)
c. I don't want to waste my space with fancy toilets and showers, my
port-a-potty works just fine but I would like a place where I can leave it
out and have it not be in the way. My current set up is great but the
new version of the Sun Valley (another name, don't remember what) now
has a wrap around couch which eliminates where we put it.
First, I would probably be in the market for a popup if they were lighter. As it is, I will probably have to get a new TV first. If we get a bigger TV, then I will likely move to a hybrid.
At the same time, let me resound the above ideas of stronger cabinetry/latches/handles/etc. My Palomino is very strong in this area, and we love it. I do NOT worry about this stuff breaking. It is as strong as most household cabinetry/latches. And it is 17 years old!
I also agree about the plumbing. I have had to do a little work on ours. Flimsy. That is all I can say.
Of course, my ideas make for a HEAVIER unit, and my first request was for a LIGHTER unit. That said, we will probably get a bigger TV in 2-3 years, along with whatever size trailer we want. However, I have friends who want to camp, but don't want to invest the money in a new TV like we do/will. A simple, light camper (with some space) would be a great entry level camper! It would probably get more people hooked. After all, I got my wife hooked on camping with an OLD, LIGHTWEIGHT camper that was basic, but well-built. Barring accident or disaster, I have no doubt that our camper will EASILY last us 2-3 more years (or MORE), until we trade up.
Just make them better.
Thanks, Dave, for the opportunity. And I'm jealous. I bet the RVIA is interesting (but not open to the public).
Larry
A front storage unit that is easy to access when popped up! Jayco may have addressed this already.
Someone else has mentioned quick release propane tanks, and I want to add my two cents to that one. Last week we ran out of propane while deer hunting. We had to run the furnace a lot, because it was cold, and since we didn't have regular shore power we weren't using out ceramic heater. Having to disconnect the tanks, from under the queen bunk in the front is a real hassle. There must be some easier way, then to have to stand there all crunched over trying not to strip the threads (which are counterlockwise), and not to hurt yourself hoisting the tanks in and out of that spot. A few have also mentioned the clear vinyl over the windows so you can see out even if it's raining or cold, and I'd like to second that motion too. I am not surprised to see so many good ideas here, and I hope that someone in a place of authority actually gives us a good listen. Thanks, PUT, for providing us with this place to give our feedback.
T
;)
Some of the things I can do without,
1. Crummy cheap cardboard cabinets.
2. Particle board not so much on the bunkends but on the interior, cabinet doors, etc.
3. Gaudy cheap gold finished hardware.
4. Fake paper wood look finish.
5. Terrible drawer slides
Some things I'd like to see added,
1. A leveling bubble, I don't know but we are suppose to level and if you don't add your own your out of luck.
2. 12 Volt outlets.
3. Fluorescent indoor lighting.
4. Larger outdoor stove table.
5. Attached outdoor table similar to outdoor stove without the stove.
6. Additional outdoor AC/DC outlets.
The main problem I believe they need to address is quality control and pride in workmanship, after seeing how they slap these things together it's a wonder they hold up as well as they do. I also believe that money talks and they use the cheapest materials available to create the desired effect, maybe for a few cents more they can build a much better camper. These suggestions are based on my knowledge of my 1998 Coleman/Fleetwood
Sorry if this sounds like kind of a rant, but..........You know what...PU's used to be unique. You had a camper, rather than a tent, that the ordinary "joe lunchkit" could afford and pull with their regular family vehicle. Now, the PU's are built with so many features...to be as good as their TT competitors...and the TT industry has built lighter TT's to respond to consumer preference ...and people are opting for SUV's and 6 cylinder minivans versus mid size cars and 4 cylinder minivans (that first came out). Frankly, the PU's, are becoming uncompetetive.
We bought a new PU this year (2004 Flaggstaff 227). We shopped around a lot and most of the the dealers we spoke to would show us a pretty sweet light weight TT we 'should' be able to pull with our van, for really not a heck of a lot more than we paid for the new PU, expecially if you were financing it over 4-5 years and just looking at the monthly payments.
Yes,we stuck with the PU, largely because of PUT and the advise from this board that told me to be cautious when towing with minivans, but unfortunately a low percentage of the people out shopping for a camper catually frequent this board and thus are not as well informed as you and me.
Sorry for the long story, but if PU's are going to be successful with in a competetive market place, rather than with just us enthusists, I feel they have to seperate themselves, again, from the TT industry by offering affordability...."towablility", righly or wrongly, has left the equation.
My spin to the manufacturers would be...offer the larger size PU's,10-12 foot boxes at a cheap base price. Explaination....we had an older PU with a 7.5 ft box and the main reason we upgraded to a 12 foot box was because, guess what, we ran out of room or maybe we just wanted more space. Our friends camped in tents which was pretty cool most days, but when it rained, we were glad to be off the ground! We weren't really looking for the porti potty, heated beds, RVQ, demand pump water supply, 2 tables, blah, blah ,blah,.... we wanted more room. Most of the CG's aroung here are upgrading their facilities to make them more convenient for your average consumer to enjoy. Sure it was nice to get the extras, but really, we didn't need them, and they drove the price up. Suddenly, the light weight TT's were "price based" attactive to us. Don't get me wrong, if you want a PU with all the extras go ahead and get it that way, most of us already decided we want a PU, it's the "uninformed" that are listening to the salesmen......"if you are going to spend that, why not buy this light weight TT?"
It really came down to the fact if we wanted a more basic PU, we were limited to the small ones and that is not what what we wanted. I don't.
A more basic 12 foot would have made the choice "lots of room and bed space for $x (and you can tow it) vs a light weight TT for 2 times $x (and iffy if you should even try to tow it)
Some of our gripes, which have been covered but bear mentioning again:
1. Cabinet and drawer latches that break continually.
2. Ineffective drawer latches that allow the drawer to "walk out" when traveling from the vibration.
3. Having to use extra long-nosed pliers to get the cotter pin in/out of the slot to take off the propane cover, and then the struggle with the tie-downs to change the propane tanks. There's got to be a better way.
4. If you're going to put in a narrow cabinet that backs into another larger cabinet, cut out the middle wall and make it a pass-through. That narrow cabinet is basically useless, but if I can use it to access my dinette storage, it becomes a cabinet that I can put a big bin in to store big stuff.
5. We need better mattresses. We've all had to replace our foam with thicker stuff. High density foam is not that expensive and will make a difference between your brand and the next. It also helps with insulation.
6. Built-in fans in the fridge would be nice.
7. The reflective bunkends and flourescent lights would help with dry camping. Many people say they never dry camp, so why need it, but it should always be an option for anyone. You know, with earthquakes and electrical outages, you need to be able to dry camp for at least a week.
Well, for those of you that don't visit "That other campground" I've got something to tweak your interest, especially those that advocate a more back to earth pop-up camper. Over "there" I found a link to this the Quick Silver...
http://www.livinlite.com/ (//%22http://www.livinlite.com/%22)
That's very interesting. Do you have any idea how much those cost?
So far I haven't seen any prices, or for that matter, any spec's on the trailer either. They claim to weigh less than conventional PU's, but failed to provide a page on their site listing the specifications.
My first Starcraft was as primitive and basic as I ever wanted to get, I'm one who will gladly admit that moving up was a good idea. I just couldn't camp here locally in the summer months without an A/C, so I either went to New England or didn't camp at all. Buying one with an A/C opened up the entire summer for me.
Quote from: Gone-CampingWell, for those of you that don't visit "That other campground" I've got something to tweak your interest, especially those that advocate a more back to earth pop-up camper. Over "there" I found a link to this the Quick Silver...
http://www.livinlite.com/
We're meeting with them on Tuesday, we'll keep you informed.