I guess it's good Coleman found someone to put their name on popups. But, Coachman? Has anyone ever been in one of them? There's a dealer near where we camp and we've been in every one on their lot. I can truthfully say that the Coachman Clippers are very cheaply manufactured. There's no way I would own one of them. :( Hopefully, the ones that bear the Coleman name will be of higher quality.
Quote from: topcat7736I guess it's good Coleman found someone to put their name on popups. But, Coachman? Has anyone ever been in one of them? There's a dealer near where we camp and we've been in every one on their lot. I can truthfully say that the Coachman Clippers are very cheaply manufactured. There's no way I would own one of them. :( Hopefully, the ones that bear the Coleman name will be of higher quality.
We own a clipper and have not had any problems.... no roofs to be replaced, no cracked panals, nothing (unlike the colemans).....
Quote from: jpreiserWe own a clipper and have not had any problems.... no roofs to be replaced, no cracked panals, nothing (unlike the colemans).....
"SOME" Coleman/Fleetwood have had issues, not all of them. Mine hasn't had any issues yet, but it's only 9 years old. ;)
I haven't seen many Coachman PUs. They tend to be Jayco, Coleman, Rockwood, Starcraft, or Viking around here.
It'll be interesting to see if their partnership works out better than the one with Fleetwood. I was surprised to hear they will have a model with the Coleman name THIS year, and some new styles next year.
Sneaky Dave knew what was up before he told us! Dave, we work on rumors too, so don't hold back on anything you hear in the future! :D
The announcement says that it will be a new line, so I think they will be different that the other brands they already sell. :)
No offense meant JP. We've been in a lot of popups & there's a world of difference between the things used in them. Some have cushions that are laughably thin, others tissue paper thin plastic used as tenting materials and still others have 1/4" spouts on the sink fixtures and on & on. The plus for the Clippers was their floor plans which were infinately better than Fleetwoods.
An interesting thought just popped up into my head. The lifter system, used on Coleman/Fleetwood trailers, was proprietary to Coleman. What will Fleetwood do without the best lifter system in the industry???
It's mu inderstanding that when Fleetwood originally signed the contract with Coleman they purchased all manufacturing acilities and the patents. I would assume that means FFT continues with the historical designs; Coachman will need to design a totally new line of pop ups.
When you think about it, most of te manufacturers work with the same materials and supplies. It will be interesting to see what Coachman does with the name and contract.
Coachman is an old and trusted name in the RV business, and they also make the Viking...which I've rarely seen a bad word about them. I looked hard at Vikings when I bought my camper, needless to say if I had, I bet the roof wouldn't have needed replacing like my Coleman did.
Each manufacturer has their 'good lines' and the less than good lines. I'd venture to say that the Coachman PU was the lesser of the two PU lines (I.E. Viking being the better of the two).
I've been drooling over a Coachman Chapperal 5th wheel for months now, as it really is something I like. But when shopping for a trailer, I ruled out the Coachman Spirit of America line as they didn't seem to have the quality...
I hope they choose Sunbrella as the fabric again. Ours is still holding up great and remains 100% waterproof, yet breathable. Never seen another fabric like it.
Most campers share the same shoddy construction. Chipboard flooring, 70s paneling, staples to hold it all together. There are a few things that set some models apart. The heavy duty welded frame and monster lifters were a big selling item to me when we bought ours. We looked at most others too. They lacked in those two departments.
I'd sure like to be a part of their design team. Some things I'd change/modify to all the current designs I've seen.
Quote from: 2manytoyzI'd sure like to be a part of their design team. Some things I'd change/modify to all the current designs I've seen.
Yes, but, Robert, you'd have to change your screen name before you got in touch with them or they'd probably delete you right away!. ;) :W
This is certainly some interesting news. The next year surrounding Coleman and Coachmen will be very interesting.
Whether you like Coleman or Coachmen or not, this is what free enterprise, competition, and better campers are made of!
Larry
Change can be good. The idea that Coleman is staying with the pop-up business is overall good for the pop-up business and good for all of our investments.
Quote from: topcat7736Has anyone ever been in one of them?I can truthfully say that the Coachman Clippers are very cheaply manufactured.
I've been in a bunch of them, and to be honest I think they're designed/engineered pretty good. As good as any other PU that is.
We were in some Coachmen travel trailers today at an RV show, and we were rather impressed with how well they were built. If they make PU's like they make their TT's, then Coleman has probably done their research!
Larry
Throughout the years, I've always owned Coleman camping equipment and won't ever change. The Coleman name stands for quality and the Coleman Company has always stood behind their products.
When we looked at trailers in 2000, the Coleman trailers appeared to be made the best. Having been in several 20+ year old Coleman trailers, we expected the one we bought to last just as long. I didn't realize at the time that they weren't made & QA'd by Coleman but by Fleetwood.
The first two years went by with just minor problems occuring. This past summer was extremely humid and wet. Well, all the moulding came off and the countertop area swelled & cracked. I noticed swelling in all the areas made with the pressed fiberboard (or whatever the junk is that Fleetwood uses).
Now, I'll admit that Peggy & I are hard on the popup. We've dragged it into areas where we once tent camped and banged it around more than anyone else would. But, it has begun falling apart in only 3 years not 20+. When we went looking for a TT, we looked inside the Fleetwoods. Sure enough, same garbage stuff used for cabinets. No way would I buy anything made of that junk again.
The new Fleetwood popups have "white tape" covering the splits in the ceiling inside the trailer. They couldn't get a one piece sheet of metal that would reach 8 or 10 or 12 feet long? Or, cover them with an aluminum seaming strip? And, in every trailer we were in, the tape was coming off because of the humidity. Ridiculous! Sunbrella is the finest tenting material I've ever been around. But, below the Sunbrella on Fleetwoods is vinyl. Seems the vinyl they used for 2001 was too thick so, they are using some thinner junk that looks the same. While the mattresses on the Destiny series are the same thickness, they managed to leave a piece of the covering hanging over the edge so it appears that the mattresses are 6" thick! Their abs roof "looked good" too, at one time. Along comes their heavy from too much pressboard, overpriced Caravans with a "sandwich" floor that develops "soft spots" from walking on it! (Hey, you can get it replaced for only another 6 or 7 grand)! Seems that every new year that comes along brings with it a new, cheaper made version of last years model that "looks the same".
I don't enjoy being experimented upon and don't like low quality junk. When I buy a Coleman product, I want a Coleman product. Not a fake replica that belongs in a junk pile and not a product made by a manufacturer who turns his back on you when there's a problem. I don't mind paying extra for what I consider to be the top of the line, which in camping equipment is that which carries the Coleman name.
I'm thankful Coleman terminated Fleetwood's license and I, for one, would never buy a Fleetwood product. I just wish it could have happenend before folks got stuck with all those "good looking" abs roofs.
Take heed Coachman. There's a lot more popup owners now than there were 20 years ago. The first product you put out bearing the Coleman name had better be worthy of it.
Quote from: topcat7736Throughout the years, I've always owned Coleman camping equipment and won't ever change. The Coleman name stands for quality and the Coleman Company has always stood behind their products.
When we looked at trailers in 2000, the Coleman trailers appeared to be made the best. Having been in several 20+ year old Coleman trailers, we expected the one we bought to last just as long. I didn't realize at the time that they weren't made & QA'd by Coleman but by Fleetwood.
The first two years went by with just minor problems occuring. This past summer was extremely humid and wet. Well, all the moulding came off and the countertop area swelled & cracked. I noticed swelling in all the areas made with the pressed fiberboard (or whatever the junk is that Fleetwood uses).
Now, I'll admit that Peggy & I are hard on the popup. We've dragged it into areas where we once tent camped and banged it around more than anyone else would. But, it has begun falling apart in only 3 years not 20+. When we went looking for a TT, we looked inside the Fleetwoods. Sure enough, same garbage stuff used for cabinets. No way would I buy anything made of that junk again.
The new Fleetwood popups have "white tape" covering the splits in the ceiling inside the trailer. They couldn't get a one piece sheet of metal that would reach 8 or 10 or 12 feet long? Or, cover them with an aluminum seaming strip? And, in every trailer we were in, the tape was coming off because of the humidity. Ridiculous! Sunbrella is the finest tenting material I've ever been around. But, below the Sunbrella on Fleetwoods is vinyl. Seems the vinyl they used for 2001 was too thick so, they are using some thinner junk that looks the same. While the mattresses on the Destiny series are the same thickness, they managed to leave a piece of the covering hanging over the edge so it appears that the mattresses are 6" thick! Their abs roof "looked good" too, at one time. Along comes their heavy from too much pressboard, overpriced Caravans with a "sandwich" floor that develops "soft spots" from walking on it! (Hey, you can get it replaced for only another 6 or 7 grand)! Seems that every new year that comes along brings with it a new, cheaper made version of last years model that "looks the same".
I don't enjoy being experimented upon and don't like low quality junk. When I buy a Coleman product, I want a Coleman product. Not a fake replica that belongs in a junk pile and not a product made by a manufacturer who turns his back on you when there's a problem. I don't mind paying extra for what I consider to be the top of the line, which in camping equipment is that which carries the Coleman name.
I'm thankful Coleman terminated Fleetwood's license and I, for one, would never buy a Fleetwood product. I just wish it could have happenend before folks got stuck with all those "good looking" abs roofs.
Take heed Coachman. There's a lot more popup owners now than there were 20 years ago. The first product you put out bearing the Coleman name had better be worthy of it.
What kind of pop up do you have now?
Quote from: jpreiserWhat kind of pop up do you have now?
We still have our 2001 Coleman/Fleetwood. (What's left of it.)
Growing up I always thought of Coleman & camping, and quality. I felt our Niagara was a good camper, never had any problems with it and thought the fit and finish of the interior was the best I saw. Smooth corners and quality products gave a good impression. Was this Coleman quality or Fleetwood? I really don't know I never saw one of the old original Coleman pop ups. The camper served us well. But when the roof issue came up it ticked me off that they were not taking care of their customers, we've all read the various horror stories of second owners getting stuck. Yes the warranty was clearly stated, but that's where a good and average company differ. Coleman/Fleetwood showed me they didn't care about the poor product design but more about their bottom line. Though the impact didn't hut our family and sure didn't hurt the resale of my Niagara I would be hard pressed to ever by another Fleetwood product again.
The Coleman name to me doesn't mean as much as it used to either. I recall the quality Coleman stoves and lanterns, the off brands were always cheaper and poor quality. Today though the Coleman name appears on anything from space bags to hot tubs. The brand that I once counted on for quality camping supplies is now just a name, nothing more. Its marketing its past history of quality.
I will always buy what I feel is the best product I can for the dollar. The past with the Coleman/Fleetwood only reinforced the need to look deeper. I wish Coachmen all the luck and hope they come up with a great product I also hope the various Coleman er I mean Fleetwood dealers all the best, their livelihoods are depending on Fleetwood being able to market without the name now.
We looked at a Coleman camper before we bought our Starcraft. Thanks to all the posts on this board, I saved myself a lot of time, aggravation and money by knowing exactly what to look for. I even pointed out to the Coleman owner that he had terrible roof sag and why I would not buy his camper. He began to tell of his troubles with it when he learned I would not be purchasing. It also had that squishy chipcore floor.
It's always interesting to see so many different opinions when manufactures are discussed. I would like to think that any major manufacture would build a
Quote from: Y-GuyThe Coleman name to me doesn't mean as much as it used to either. I recall the quality Coleman stoves and lanterns, the off brands were always cheaper and poor quality. Today though the Coleman name appears on anything from space bags to hot tubs. The brand that I once counted on for quality camping supplies is now just a name, nothing more. Its marketing its past history of quality.
All there stuff, with the obvious exception of the campers, is probably made in China now, just like everything else. Unfortunately, Coleman is merely a name now -- it carries no additional weight with me any longer either.
Coleman/ Fleetwood is long overdue for a class action suit regarding their roofs.
It is incredible that you can walk on a lot and not be given full disclosure about the roof problems even today. And we wonder why this segment of the market is not growing to expectations....
It used to be that you could depend on brand names but for the most part, those days are gone. Coleman and Fleetwood owe the public alot more for putting out a defective product. Every brand has issues but the coleman roofs are inexcusable....and the way they have handled it is even worst.
They even have owners convinced that paying for shipping to replace their defective product is fair. I am not a litigious person but these guys have it coming.
A new link to another news item release 2/12 http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=SVBIZINK4.story&STORY=/www/story/02-11-2004/0002107806&EDATE=WED+Feb+11+2004,+02:35+PM (//%22http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=SVBIZINK4.story&STORY=/www/story/02-11-2004/0002107806&EDATE=WED+Feb+11+2004,+02:35+PM%22)>The plot thickens AGAIN, and AGAIN and AGAIN
Remember now this is a different judge and court than the ruling earlier this week, so now there's got to be a "meeting of the minds".
Sooooooooo, who's going to be responsible for repairs under warranty, Fleetwood or Coleman? It would seem like that Fleetwood ought to repair the ones under their manufacture using the Coleman name. Then again, the court is going to rule on the use of the Coleman name or for interfering with Coleman in any way.:confused:
Of course Fleetwood is responsible for any and all warranty claims. Don't forget the only thing that Coleman (American Home Products) has to do with the trailers is licensing the NAME to Fleetwood. All production, sales, marketing, advertising is done by Fleeetwood, who's only involvement with Coleman is to pay a fixed royalty payment on each unit sold/produced depending on how the license is written.
Coleman stopped producing trailers in 1989, when they turned the production facilities over to Fleetwood.
It sounds like Coleman wanted the name back and that they were aware of the breach of agreement and so forth. I wonder if they were also aware of the quality issues and the roof sag.
Quote from: B-flatSooooooooo, who's going to be responsible for repairs under warranty, Fleetwood or Coleman? It would seem like that Fleetwood ought to repair the ones under their manufacture using the Coleman name. Then again, the court is going to rule on the use of the Coleman name or for interfering with Coleman in any way.:confused:
Fleetwood is responsible for warranty work. Fleetwood made the trailer not Coleman (unless you have an older trailer that was made by Coleman).
Here's the latest...
http://www.southbendtribune.com/stories/2004/02/12/business.20040212-sbt-MICH-B10-Fleetwood_set_to_sue.sto
well... after this discussion, I guess I'm just glad that when we were looking for an older coleman popup we found a pre-1989 version! It's been great, no problems whatsoever.
Quote from: brainpauseCouldn't read the story. Says Subscription required.
That's very strange. I read that story the day I posted it, and I sure don't have a subscription. But I can't get to it now either. :(