Okay ~ all you minivan drivers. Now is your chance ... for a variety of reasons I am down-sizing from a Suburban. I have 4 children ~ 2 still in booster seats and one still in a car seat. I need help choosing my next vehicle. When fully loaded, my PU weighs in at slightly under 2000 lbs
- Please tell me what kind of van you drive and what made you choose that one
- What are the pros/cons of your van ~ I'm especially interested in cargo capacity
- Is it front-wheel or rear-wheel drive? or do you have the all-wheel drive option
- If towing wasn't a consideration would you still have chosen this van?
- anything else you think might help?
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Any help would be greatly appreciated ... and please, no SUV/Minivan wars! :J
Kelly..... we have towed our 2000 lb Santee with only one vehicle...our Town n Country LXI. It pulls so well and smooth, I most likely will have a very hard time tryng anything else ever. ( 104000 now on van ) We actually bought the van before the camper and the two just happened to pair up beautifully. I cannot speak for any other TV's but I most definately would recommend this one. Standard class 3 hitch, zero sway, and adequate braking even in the NC mountains. The only thing I wish it had was a V 8. Stay away from the smaller 3.3 V 6 , the 3,8 is a better motor. Tow capacity by the way on ours is 4000 lb. Best of luck
We have a 2001 GMC Safari AWD we tow a 2001 Jayco 14SO. Our van does pull our camper plus brings the wife, 3 kiddos, & our australian shephard. Mine has the 3.73 rear end so my tow capacity is 5200#'s. The van does pull the camper sufficiently but you won't win any races. The Safari/Astro do have soft rear-ends so a wdh would have to be used or air springs as we use for the Jayco.
I think for an all around van the Safari/Astro has many things to offer with the amount of cargo that can be packed in it, plus the cargo rack on top that goes almost the full length of the van.
I think the most precious thing that the van has to offer is the AWD feature which is a life saver here in the snow, plus pulling through gravel areas. Two years ago we pulled a trailer for some friends at a 4 day outdoor concert. It rained for 2 days solid, as vehicles were being pulled from the mud we just coasted out of the concert field w/o an issue.
Quote from: KellyOkay ....for a variety of reasons I am down-sizing from a Suburban.
Oh, cool! So yer gunna get yerself an Excursion, right? ;)
I'll second the Safari/Astro. We have an older Astro, and it's hauled a family of four plus friends, while towing a 24' skiboat. Plenty of power for what you need, and cargo room to spare. Yeah, it's old styling, but I personally like their looks over the newer mini-vans (hey, I'm a truck guy, I can't help it). Rear wheel drive vs. front wheel drive (better with a lot of cargo, even if you are not towing), and a real frame vs. unibody construction. I guess I just like the higher view you get in a Safari than in a mini-van, but that's my truck-driver day-job speaking out.
Sure, Sacto likes to tow his new 35' hybrid with his minivan, but I like a little more room to spare. :D
Kelly,
Ab Diver doesn't know I just upgraded to a Geo Metro pulling 40' fifth wheel.
If you buy an Astro, which are cheap and plentiful, you will need to beef up the rear suspension since the Palomino doesn't allow weight distribution. The Astro's butt sags like, well, let's just say it sags bad.
Also depends how you view safety. Is it more important to tow with an Astro (unsafe in an accident) for towing the 10% of your miles and 90% of others, or drive a FWD minivan (much safer in an accident) for the other 90%. It's your call. I'm not convinced an Astro van is safer for towing a popup, despite having a higher tow capacity. At least you have a Palomino that tows extremely well ;) .
It won't be an easy decision.
1. We chose a Chrysler Town & Country because we knew it could easily tow our 2300 lb Palomino. Fully loaded with family and gear I had over 700 lbs availalbe in my GCWR (8300 lbs), if I were towing your popup, it would be 1000 lbs. If you get a late model DC minivan you have 8600 lb GCWR. It would be impossible for you to violate this without overloading any or all of your axles. That's in excess of 1200 lbs of people and cargo inside.
2.Pros: Very comfortable, good tow vehicle. Frame handled the popup with no problem at all. AWD is great in the snow...Astro doesn't have a monopoly on that. Cons....none really...a few more horses would be great. Fuel economy with AWD isn't great...about 19 in mixed driving....15-16 towing.
3. If we weren't towing we would still own it or some other minivan like it.
4. Whatever minivan you get, and you know this already, make sure you get the tow package. But you better be careful trying to climb those grades in Minnesota. With your kids, cargo, and high tongue weight, you will need to be careful with overloading the rear axle. You'll need a minivan with load leveling since you cannot use WD with the Palomino. If you're looking used, only the DC minivans and GM minivans once offered this, and the GM minivans have less power. If you don't like either of those options, then you could go with another brand and add air bags to the rear suspension.
I have heard so many good things about the Astro's/Safari's (before this thread). No personal experience, but lots of good things. I will add that the true frame of an Astro will hold up better than a unibody, for towing.
Although I am not a Dodge/Chrysler fan, I have seen the Chrysler T&C tow a Westlake beautifully. It was a late model at the time (probably around '01 model). The Westlakes, remember, are a 3500# (loaded) PU.
Also, just in case you don't know or haven't realized it, the GMC Safari is the same as the Chevy Astro, so keep that in mind when you are looking.
Larry
If you are looking for a used van I would make sure you get one with the sliding doors on both sides. I've had 2 vans and 3 kids and it's much easier with the 4th door. I had a Plymouth Voyager and a Grand Voyager. The grand Voyager had much more Cargo Room. The Voyager I used the bench seat in the farthest back spot and used the center for cargo. We hed to replace the tranny on the 94 Voyager and there was a belt mount that had to be replaced on the 97 Grand Voyager. We didn't tow with either one so I can't speak about that. I do like a van but I needed 4 wheel drive so I bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee. that way we can tow and still travel as a family.
I have to vote for the Astro/Safari. Drove a 1994 Safari until I traded it in on the current Astrol in 2001. I show dogs so interior cargo space is at a premium when figuring out how many dog crates we can set up in the van and how mucy "stuff" we can pack for feeding and grooming them and us. The Astro fits the bill for me.
I would go with the Dodge Gran Carvan. We had a 97 that we use to tow our 01 Bayside did a great job. Yes we did the upgrade. Trans cooler extra leaf spring .We took many trips with the van, no problems at all. We have now upgrade to a new TV Dodge Ram 1500. Like night and day. Do not know that the Bayside is back there.How this helps you out. Still have the 97 Carvan.
We have not towed with a mini van... but from the voice of experience... we had a Caravan... got rid of it for a full size Chevy conversion van... which we truly loved.. We only had 2 girls, but with them in dance competitions, we needed the room for equipment and other children. We did not regret getting it. Once they were out of dance, we did trade it in for our Dakota truck.
Just keep in mind what you will be doing the times you are not camping (ie soccer and if you will be hauling other children. You may need the room of a larger van.
We pull the Niagara... Loaded to the max.. 3 kids, 2 adults...
My guess is we are pulling the max - 3,500 in tow... With the weight in the car - (people, fridge, wagon, stuff) we are probably over by 300 LBS.. So my ONLY concern is stopping... have breaks tweaked - keep distance - and take the slow lane when traffic is around...
To florida and back (2,600 miles) - just got back....
Pulled like it wasn't there..... WDH, and Sway control help I am sure...
Van has 3.8L engine... We pull out one seat - to provide moving around space... Love it...
Van didn't have tow package - so I upgraded w/transcooler
Move along at 70/75...
3rd year pulling in this combo - Wouldn't consider a Truck...
Might upgrade to a travel van a few years down the road.... Nice not to have to setup on 1 / 2 night stays...
dumb female question: what exactly do you mean by "tow package?"
do you mean get the hitch factory-installed?
when I got my Kia Sedona it was new to the market and it was several months before any hitches were made for it - and I got one at U-Haul made for the Sedona (and it's pretty ugly - thick round "bars") before Kia had made one.
Quote from: sandykayakdumb female question: what exactly do you mean by "tow package?"
do you mean get the hitch factory-installed?
when I got my Kia Sedona it was new to the market and it was several months before any hitches were made for it - and I got one at U-Haul made for the Sedona (and it's pretty ugly - thick round "bars") before Kia had made one.
Not a dumb question. Tow package usually refers to equipment that allows a minivan (or other vehicle) to tow at it's highest rated capacity. It usually is sold as a "package" you select when purchasing a vehicle. Other vehicles, however, come equipped from the factory, without options, capable of towing their highest rated capacity.
A typical tow package may include but is not limited to:
-beefier suspension
-additional transmission cooler
-additional engine cooling
and it may or may not have a towing hitch installed. Conversely, a towing hitch and wiring does not necessarily mean you have a towing package.
Have to do your homework on this one as every vehicle is different.
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Thanks for the replies so far. Now I am starting to test drive some vans ... keep your ideas coming. Please!!
We have a Windstar that we've been towing with for the last 4 years. It's towed through the Rockies, the Smokies, and everywhere in between, and we have a very large pop-up. I do think something on a truck chassis like the Astro or Aerostar would have a bit more power, but we forget we're towing with our Windstar, so it's no problem at all. We even had a tire blow out on the PU coming home from Florida last summer and the van handled perfectly.
I really like the minivans for leg room and diversity. We easily fit in our three kids, our pets, and can even take a couple of other kids along. I recently took out all of the back seats in our van to get a load of rescued puppymill dogs from Missouri. I was able to fit four large dog crates and some small crates inside.
I know there are years that the crashtest rating was really, really bad on the Astro, so you might want to do some searching and possibly rule out those years if that is a concern to you.
And for towing, I'm not a fan of the Dodge/Chrysler line in minivans. Our own Dodge minivan's transmission went out under 100,000 miles and we weren't towing anything at the time. A friend who works at a Cottman's transmission said that line is pretty well known for transmission problems.
That said, I want to move up to a full-size van some day. So the Collie has room on the floor and the kids won't always be saying, "Mom, Reno's breathing on me!" ;) Not looking forward to the worse gas mileage the way gasoline prices are atm, though. :(
Quote from: Miss-Teri.....That said, I want to move up to a full-size van some day. So the Collie has room on the floor and the kids won't always be saying, "Mom, Reno's breathing on me!" ;) Not looking forward to the worse gas mileage the way gasoline prices are atm, though. :(
Our conversion van had a 33 gallon tank on it, with today's prices, you would have to take a loan out just to fill it.
We have never pulled a camper with a minivan. We have seen a friend do that & burn up his transmission. Keep in mind, most minivans do not have much cargo space behind the rear seat. So if you're looking for cargo space that might be difficult to find in many of the minivans.
We used our F150 truck instead of our Ford Windstar when we pulled our Jayco 10 footer. We bought a full size van to pull our camper, even before we got the big honkin' Bayside. We love the roominess, especially the cargo room in the van. Added to that is the towing capacity. We have 2 large dogs who camp with us, and along with the standard gear I can't imagine getting everything & everyone in a smaller vehicle.
Good luck on your search!
Quote from: 4campinfoxesWe have never pulled a camper with a minivan. We have seen a friend do that & burn up his transmission. Keep in mind, most minivans do not have much cargo space behind the rear seat. So if you're looking for cargo space that might be difficult to find in many of the minivans.
We used to tow with both our Windstars. The Windstar was a good tow vehicle, but I wouldn't go back after using the Tahoe. It seats 7, and quite frankly, gets about the same gas mileage without breathing hard.
Regardless of what the automakers and folks want to believe, a FWD minivan (e.g., Caravan, Windstar, Quest, Sienna, Lumina, whatever they are called) is a slightly beefed up car designed to haul people - not tow. Automakers like minivans because they can use CAFE ratings to make it a light truck, helping the average of gas sucking light duty pickups, but not hurting their sedan and small car fuel economy averages.
The only thing which allows an automaker to designate a minivan a light truck is the fact that it 'can' be configured to carry a larger volume of cargo than passengers (the EPA stipulation).
Quote from: wynotWe used to tow with both our Windstars. The Windstar was a good tow vehicle, but I wouldn't go back after using the Tahoe.
Another Suburban (or even a Tahoe) is out of the question for me.
If having the Tahoe weren't an option for you ~ would you still tow with a Windstar?Quote from: 4campingfoxesSo if you're looking for cargo space that might be difficult to find in many of the minivans.
Actually the Astro/Safari has more cargo capacity (170.4 cu. ft.) than the Suburban (149.5 cu. ft.) that I've been driving. Haven't checked on the FWD models ~ yet!
I have to say our 98 Astro pulls our Coleman Westlake very well. We did hve sway issues but that has been taken care by the single bar hitch. You can't beat the Astro for room and cargo capacity. We have 3 kids and a dog and have tons of room. We even bring a friend or 2 sometimes. I know the Astro gets a bad rap for reliability but ours has 96,000 miles on it and is still towing beautifully. As far as crashing, I have never had a front impact crash but I did have a lady take out the entire driver side of the van $9,000 in damage) a few years ago and we all walked away without a scratch. I have also been rear-ended 3 times and no injuries. My only wish is that it would have dual sliding doors and then it would be the perfect van. Good luck with your car hunting. There are so many makes and models, it is a tuff choice.
Jacqui
My Astro/Safari History..........
1995 Astro AWD
Bought it with 44,000 miles
Mostly just maintenance stuff
But, Had a couple nearly $1000 repairs over the years.
138,000 the transmission went and I dumped it. This winter
1999 Safari RWD
Bought it with 22,000 miles (with a 100,000 5yr warrenty)
4 weeks after the above Astro sent to Sh*t
This one had 90,000 This transmission went too.
Luckily it was still under warrenty so only $50 for a new transmission[:D]
Including the tranny the Safari has had a total of $5400 in claims on the warrenty.
I'd really suggest renting or borrowing one and doing a test tow before buying. After towing with the Burb, you're not going to be satisfied with the smaller truck. I'm sure todays gas prices are behind this, but they will eventually fall again (I hope)...
Quote from: OC CampersI have to say our 98 Astro pulls our Coleman Westlake very well. We did hve sway issues but that has been taken care by the single bar hitch. You can't beat the Astro for room and cargo capacity. We have 3 kids and a dog and have tons of room. We even bring a friend or 2 sometimes. I know the Astro gets a bad rap for reliability but ours has 96,000 miles on it and is still towing beautifully. As far as crashing, I have never had a front impact crash but I did have a lady take out the entire driver side of the van $9,000 in damage) a few years ago and we all walked away without a scratch. I have also been rear-ended 3 times and no injuries. My only wish is that it would have dual sliding doors and then it would be the perfect van. Good luck with your car hunting. There are so many makes and models, it is a tuff choice.
Jacqui
Yes Kelly---whatever you do, don't get a
Green van gsm x2
Quote from: KellyAnother Suburban (or even a Tahoe) is out of the question for me.
If having the Tahoe weren't an option for you ~ would you still tow with a Windstar?
I feel kind of like I'm tiptoeing around the question of why you're downsizing from a Suburban, but it's none of my business, so I certainly won't ask. The reason for this comment is that a Suburban is usually considered to be the pinnacle of wagon-type tow vehicles.
I had my Windstars set with airbags in the rear, so that I towed level. I ran 44 psi in the Windstar tires. I used my transmission to control downgrade speed. I ran a Class III/IV hitch with a slightly longer drawbar. I ran a tranny cooler rated for 11,500 lbs.
I was happy enough with the Windstar's towing, and 95% of the time you could forget you were towing. But hit the littlest upgrade and the tranny slams out of OD into 3rd, and without much provocation, will slam into 2d. We live in the mountains, so grades are there. It could downshift so abruptly that you would have the steering wheel give a little jerk from the torque steer.
A buddy of mine called it correct - I had an Ace-bandaged vehicle that could do it, but at what cost? I will note, that the Windstar got the best fuel mileage towing, usually two to three mpg better than I could get without a trailer.
To totally answer your question, yes, I would still be towing with the Windstar. But I suspect we wouldn't have taken some extended length (distance) trips that the Tahoe facilitated.
Kelly we pulled our Santa Fe with the Dodge Caravan we have for the first year and still used it a couple of times last year even after we go the Explorer, when we needed more seating capacity (kids brought a friend along). Jeff actually preferred towing with the van over the Explorer. It did a great job. It also had a transmission cooler. No matter which van you look at or choose remember there are several different models, and therefore sizes, of each one. I have seen some Caravans with NO space behind the 3rd seat. But ours when loaded for a road trip to Texas (without the camper), there was usually room behind the 3rd seat for alot of cargo/luggage, strollers, etc. I really like my van and am still driving it. Just passed 100,000 miles a month or so ago and haven't had any major problems with it.