We've rec'd about 30+ emails and 5 phone calls complaining about the friction between Bearbait and Birol. I felt I had no other option than to ban both of them from the boards, a decision that I'm sure will be unpopular with some of you, but a decision I felt necesary.
I have personally met both Bearbait & Birol and enjoyed their company, but this is a forum for friendly conversation and exchanges of information.
Feuding, personal attacks at others, name calling or unfriendly comments are not welcomed here.
What about a "cooling off" period instead of a life time ban? :confused:
My opinion is that Birol did little more than try to defend himself, against Bearbait and those who sided with him. Something he got punished for.
Doesn't seem right. Not at all. Not sure I would want the same fate to befall me if I tried to stand up for myself.
I think I have to do some re-evaluation of whether or not this is the right place for me anymore.
I think tlhdoc offers a fair alternative that I'd like to see happen. In the end, it's Daves decision though.
Quote from: SkipPI think tlhdoc offers a fair alternative that I'd like to see happen. In the end, it's Daves decision though.
Couldn't agree more, Skip.
Quote from: SkipPThis is exactly the type of divisive comment this board does not need!
There are actually people on this board who choose not to "take sides", those who see things differently than the above quote and those who feel Dave has been stuck between a rock and a hard place. There are a lot of "those" people.
I think tlhdoc offers a fair alternative that I'd like to see happen. In the end, it's Daves decision though.
Like I said... it's my opinion.
And I respect other's rights to their opinions, even if it conflicts with mine.
Dave's included.I don't think it's divisive. I think it's not being 2 faced. I have a side of the fence that I stand on and simply said what side that is.
I think it's wrong to get rid of someone for standing up for himself. If it's hard for Dave to hear that, well what can I say? He made a choice. Not everyone is going to like it, he said so himself. So he's got to accept that some will voice their displeasure.
I am sure someone will chime in and voice the same displeasure about Bearbait being banned too.
And... if there are people who chose not to takes sides... they are welcome to voice their standings on this matter too.
By saying you don't agree with my statement, I think you have made what you call a divise statement too. You don't agree with me. I don't agree with you. Your and my perrogative, both.
Quote from: KellyCouldn't agree more, Skip.
Isn't this "taking sides" too?
Quote from: MommaMiaIsn't this "taking sides" too?
There were no sides in this comment.
Do you not understand what was said?
Quote from: PopUPTimesFeuding, personal attacks at others, name calling or unfriendly comments are not welcomed here.
Please just drop it or email your comments to Dave. There is no reason for you to try to flare this back up with the membership. The management has spoken, we cannot change this, he can.
Quote from: MommaMiaBy saying you don't agree with my statement, I think you have made what you call a divise statement too. You don't agree with me. I don't agree with you. Your and my perrogative, both.
Sigh....... By nature, I try and not be confrontational but I can't sit here quietly while you my twist words to suit your agenda. Did I say I didn't agree with your statement? NO. I said what it was.... divisive.
I don't think I offered anything in the original statement that wasn't factual.
THAT is an opinion!
Sick of arguing....
I deleted alll my post, now I respectfully ask the rest of you to delete yours too
P.S. I think this Thread should be changed to only act as a notice and not allow members to respond to it.
did i miss something? the only post i see from Lee is :
Munchausen by Internet
For decades, physicians have known about so-called factitious disorder, better known in its severe form as Munchausen syndrome (Feldman & Ford, 1995). Here, people willfully fake or produce illness to command attention, obtain lenience, act out anger, or control others. Though feeling well, they may bound into hospitals, crying out or clutching their chests with dramatic flair. Once admitted, they send the staff on one medical goose chase after another. If suspicions are raised or the ruse is uncovered, they quickly move on to a new hospital, town, state, or in the worst cases - country. Like traveling performers, they simply play their role again. I coined the terms "virtual factitious disorder" (Feldman, Bibby, & Crites, 1998) and "Munchausen by Internet" (Feldman, 2000) to refer to people who simplify this "real-life" process by carrying out their deceptions online. Instead of seeking care at numerous hospitals, they gain new audiences merely by clicking from one support group to another. Under the guise of illness, they can also join multiple groups simultaneously. Using different names and accounts, they can even sign on to one group as a stricken patient, his frantic mother, and his distraught son all to make the ruse utterly convincing.
Report Post (//%22http://www.arveeclub.com/report.php?p=86304%22) | IP: Logged (//%22http://www.arveeclub.com/postings.php?do=getip&p=86304%22)
and the start of the thread where to read about it the diease, where did Lee make any statement that he was talking about Birol?
I see birol making an attack, and charlie trying to figure out how it was a personal attack
did i miss a post somewhere? please clue me in , the two threads on this topic bear-bait made no statement, others made them , yet bear was banned. I'm confused!
I think all this crap needs to be deleted ASAP as well as all threads (including my own) dealing with this stupid little war. And I think Birol and bb need to be made to sit in the corner for 3 days and then invited back after being ordered to leave each other strictly alone except for remarks like "you can get that porta-potti blue stuff at Wal-Mart.".
This is just like the Gun Question: you will NEVER change anyone's mind about this, not if you argue until doomsday. Remember--we wisely banned talking about guns and see how nice it has made the place? So we need to do the same with this.
So then the whole bunch of us need to forget all this controversy and move on--get back to having fun together, put this stuff behind us and start behaving POLITELY to each other ALL THE TIME!
Geeze, isnt it Kelly who is always saying when things get tense: "let's go camping!" ? Good idea!
I will pledge right here in front of God and everyone that I will no longer take sides in ANYTHING except maybe to insist that Al Parker admit that Bubba Burgers REALLY DO taste better:# (He really ticked me off when he insisted they were "greasy")
Also, I still like Skip's idea of having a forum for prayer requests and sympathy for those who have lost loved ones or have just had their mother-in-law move in permanently.
Quote from: NightOwlI will pledge right here in front of God and everyone that I will no longer take sides in ANYTHING except maybe to insist that Al Parker admit that Bubba Burgers REALLY DO taste better:# (He really ticked me off when he insisted they were "greasy")
NO more sides for me either... well, unless it's coleslaw or bbq beans with those Bubba burgers...They are better, especially if they are fried, not grilled! That's something I will take sides on too!
I'm done. Way done. So over done. Gonna just read for a while. Got plenty of better things to do with my time than argue.
Quote from: MommaMiaSick of arguing....
I deleted alll my post, now I respectfully ask the rest of you to delete yours too
Happily done!
Quote from: dee106did i miss something? the only post i see from Lee is :
Munchausen by Internet
For decades, physicians have known about so-called factitious disorder, better known in its severe form as Munchausen syndrome (Feldman & Ford, 1995). Here, people willfully fake or produce illness to command attention, obtain lenience, act out anger, or control others. Though feeling well, they may bound into hospitals, crying out or clutching their chests with dramatic flair. Once admitted, they send the staff on one medical goose chase after another. If suspicions are raised or the ruse is uncovered, they quickly move on to a new hospital, town, state, or in the worst cases - country. Like traveling performers, they simply play their role again. I coined the terms "virtual factitious disorder" (Feldman, Bibby, & Crites, 1998) and "Munchausen by Internet" (Feldman, 2000) to refer to people who simplify this "real-life" process by carrying out their deceptions online. Instead of seeking care at numerous hospitals, they gain new audiences merely by clicking from one support group to another. Under the guise of illness, they can also join multiple groups simultaneously. Using different names and accounts, they can even sign on to one group as a stricken patient, his frantic mother, and his distraught son all to make the ruse utterly convincing.
Report Post | IP: Logged
and the start of the thread where to read about it the diease, where did Lee make any statement that he was talking about Birol?
I see birol making an attack, and charlie trying to figure out how it was a personal attack
did i miss a post somewhere? please clue me in , the two threads on this topic bear-bait made no statement, others made them , yet bear was banned. I'm confused!
I must have missed it too. :confused:
Quote from: NightOwlAlso, I still like Skip's idea of having a forum for prayer requests and sympathy for those who have lost loved ones or have just had their mother-in-law move in permanently.
Elisa ~ I disagree. Respectfully, of course. That is the purpose of the campfire section ... always has been. People can (and will) choose what to read and what to respond to ~ no need to add yet another forum to sort through. I think we have plenty!
Let's go Camping.
Quote from: dee106did i miss something? the only post i see from Lee is :
Munchausen by Internet
For decades, physicians have known about so-called factitious disorder, better known in its severe form as Munchausen syndrome (Feldman & Ford, 1995). Here, people willfully fake or produce illness to command attention, obtain lenience, act out anger, or control others. Though feeling well, they may bound into hospitals, crying out or clutching their chests with dramatic flair. Once admitted, they send the staff on one medical goose chase after another. If suspicions are raised or the ruse is uncovered, they quickly move on to a new hospital, town, state, or in the worst cases - country. Like traveling performers, they simply play their role again. I coined the terms "virtual factitious disorder" (Feldman, Bibby, & Crites, 1998) and "Munchausen by Internet" (Feldman, 2000) to refer to people who simplify this "real-life" process by carrying out their deceptions online. Instead of seeking care at numerous hospitals, they gain new audiences merely by clicking from one support group to another. Under the guise of illness, they can also join multiple groups simultaneously. Using different names and accounts, they can even sign on to one group as a stricken patient, his frantic mother, and his distraught son all to make the ruse utterly convincing.
Report Post | IP: Logged
and the start of the thread where to read about it the diease, where did Lee make any statement that he was talking about Birol?
I see birol making an attack, and charlie trying to figure out how it was a personal attack
did i miss a post somewhere? please clue me in , the two threads on this topic bear-bait made no statement, others made them , yet bear was banned. I'm confused!
The thing is... You won't see anything obvious unless you were able to read all the posts that were in the thread titled " Update" That Birol had started. That entire thread is gone. So, since people can't see what was said there, No one is able to make fair judgemnts for themselves for either side of the issue.
PLease Dee and Tlhdoc... delete your posts. It just stirs and muddies things up again.
It's sad that it came to this. Please reconsider total elimination for a cooling off period with a warning that if it happens again, they will be eliminated for good -- unless, of course, they were already warned prior to this...
:( :confused:
I know I'm not a regular poster, but I've been lurking for years and here's my 2 cents-
I think Birol airs too much of his personal laundry here. I've witnessed way more more silly situations that would have gotten him booted from other forums.
Bearbait kills me! I think he's funny but too often at someone else's expense.
MommaMia ~
IMHO it would appear that you are taking sides by the line under your name.
Let's go Camping.
Cooling off period strikes me as a better option than lifetime ban but of course Dave is the ultimate arbiter.
My 2 cents
Quote from: KellyMommaMia ~
IMHO it would appear that you are taking sides by the line under your name.
Let's go Camping.
I am friends with LOTS of people, Just couldn't fit them all there! This better? :D
Hey Dave,
Create an unmoderated forum for those who want to scrap. Let Bearbait & Birol back in and they, along with anyone else can duke it out there. When threads start to go downhill, move them to the unmoderated forum. That way the rest of us don't have to be spectators unless we choose to.
Ahhhh....don't ban them...Birol maybe went a little too public and Bearbait didn't directly launch an attack...let's just send them both off to a corner by the campfire for a little while and then let them come back and play with us all again!!!!.....please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I like the idea of a forum for those seeking consolation, etc., due to some unfortunate situation. That way folks can opt to go over there and offer support as needed.
Quote from: MommaMiaI am friends with LOTS of people, Just couldn't fit them all there! This better? :D
That is the ULTIMATE compromise, thanks for doing that.
Sometimes people can be stubborn and unresponsive to other peoples feelings, what you just did rises above the rest and shows that you really care!!!
F.O.B.
Friend
Of
Bearbait....... who would have known????????
;););););););););)
Just kidding, that is why I winked so much!!!!
C'mon everybody let's all hold keyboards and sing Kum-bi-ya and do a group hug!!!!!
Can ya feeeeeeeeeeeeeeel the love???? C'mon, can ya feeeeeel it???
PLEASE do not take this wrong, it is my sad attempt at humor in these trying times.
I missed all the action, but I heard about it when I stopped by the PUT office today. The intention is only to ban them for a short time; a cooling off period..
I was under the impression that this was a camping board and that it is a pay board. With this in mind, I enjoy reading about camping adventures and problems while camping. I do not care to hear about something that has nothing to do with camping.. But that is just me.. Am I wrong?
The campfire section is suppose to be for members to be able to venture off the usual camping type topics that may not apply specifically for pop up camping. It's often fun and entertaining and can be sad when those of us need to ask for help in the support of getting through a tough situation. But there probably be should kind of line as to just how personal one can really get when discussing very disturbing private family matters. That would be up to the moderator to draw the line when things get a little to nitty gritty.
I'm glad to hear they've just been given a cooling off period. I'd like to welcome them both back around the campfire when the time comes again.
Man, you take a few days off... I can't believe what's happened in such a short period of time. I hope they can both come back soon. I like the campfire's off topic theme, it's a great place to share news (births, deaths, divorce, marriage, in-laws) Sometimes we might share to much info, but sometimes we also take cheap shots at eachother ;) .
Sigh......., isn't it just like a real family! :eyecrazy:
Quote from: chasd60That is the ULTIMATE compromise, thanks for doing that.
Sometimes people can be stubborn and unresponsive to other peoples feelings, what you just did rises above the rest and shows that you really care!!!
F.O.B.
Friend Of Bearbait....... who would have known????????
Just kidding, that is why I winked so much!!!!
C'mon everybody let's all hold keyboards and sing Kum-bi-ya and do a group hug!!!!!
Can ya feeeeeeeeeeeeeeel the love???? C'mon, can ya feeeeeel it???
PLEASE do not take this wrong, it is my sad attempt at humor in these trying times.
Exactly why I chose to change it to what it is. Those who know what it really is appreciate it. Those who don't know can make any association they want. And if they are making the wrong association, guessing it's that B you said, I am sure they know it so it still works for me.
And yes, you are right about one thing.... it is a sad attempt. Pitiful, actually. I think you should open up to everyone about how bad you feel at being such a poor joke maker and ask for sympathies. :D ;) :D
Ready... let's sing:
There's a calm surrender to the rush of day
When the heat of the rolling world can be turned away
An enchanted moment, and it sees me through
It's enough for this restless warrior just to be with you
And can you feel the love tonight
It is where we are
It's enough for this wide-eyed wanderer
That we got this far
And can you feel the love tonight
How it's laid to rest
It's enough to make kings and vagabonds
Believe the very best
There's a time for everyone if they only learn
That the twisting kaleidoscope moves us all in turn
There's a rhyme and reason to the wild outdoors
When the heart of this star-crossed voyager beats in time with yoursActually, I think these lyrics are very befitting to the needs of this board at this time.
:book: Keep it relevant to pop up camping in all forums except the Campfire area
It s OK to criticize a product, manufacturer, campground or Pop UP Times. Just be honest and fair to all parties involved, including your fellow board readers
NO name-calling - like TROLL!
Just thought I would bring up a couple of the rules for the board.
And mention that I GOT NEW SOCKS !:D :D
Quote from: homecrewI GOT NEW SOCKS !:D :D [/color[/size][/font]
Never mind "Are they
RED SOX" Or "Are they
Green?" I'm guesing they are black stretchy elasticized pressure socks right? ;) :p
Quote from: MommaMiaNever mind "Are they RED SOX" Or "Are they Green?" I'm guesing they are black stretchy elasticized pressure socks right? ;) :p
They are WHITE SOX....straight from Chicago:D
Wow,
I guess I have not been staying abreast of the topics as much as I should. I lurk and read on the forum a couple times per week but the events that have transpired hit so quickly I'm a little lost about the feuding.
I have camped with both individuals also and have enjoyed camping with each. I also agree that just a temporary ban would be more appropriate than a lifetime ban, a cooling off period is more appropriate for the offense that transpired, even though I had no idea of what transpired.
Hmmmm.. I must of missed it too!! Oh wait, All my posts are still there.. I am not causing trouble!! Dee, are you trying to get me to go to band camp?
Quote from: dee106did i miss something? the only post i see from Lee is :
Munchausen by Internet
For decades, physicians have known about so-called factitious disorder, better known in its severe form as Munchausen syndrome (Feldman & Ford, 1995). Here, people willfully fake or produce illness to command attention, obtain lenience, act out anger, or control others. Though feeling well, they may bound into hospitals, crying out or clutching their chests with dramatic flair. Once admitted, they send the staff on one medical goose chase after another. If suspicions are raised or the ruse is uncovered, they quickly move on to a new hospital, town, state, or in the worst cases - country. Like traveling performers, they simply play their role again. I coined the terms "virtual factitious disorder" (Feldman, Bibby, & Crites, 1998) and "Munchausen by Internet" (Feldman, 2000) to refer to people who simplify this "real-life" process by carrying out their deceptions online. Instead of seeking care at numerous hospitals, they gain new audiences merely by clicking from one support group to another. Under the guise of illness, they can also join multiple groups simultaneously. Using different names and accounts, they can even sign on to one group as a stricken patient, his frantic mother, and his distraught son all to make the ruse utterly convincing.
Report Post | IP: Logged
and the start of the thread where to read about it the diease, where did Lee make any statement that he was talking about Birol?
I see birol making an attack, and charlie trying to figure out how it was a personal attack
did i miss a post somewhere? please clue me in , the two threads on this topic bear-bait made no statement, others made them , yet bear was banned. I'm confused!
Quote from: Firefyter-EmtHmmmm.. I must of missed it too!! Oh wait, All my posts are still there.. I am not causing trouble!! Dee, are you trying to get me to go to band camp?
Not to worry Lee. I think that Bearbait's name is also Lee. :)
:eyecrazy: oh....
For those of you that missed it, count it as one of your blessings tonight in your prayers. It wasn't pretty. Don't ask what happened, except in private email to someone. It is best that you missed it.[/I]
Larry
So, did I miss something somewhere??? I got an email from Birol today, seems BearBait is back, but Birol is not?!?!
Quote from: Gone-CampingSo, did I miss something somewhere??? I got an email from Birol today, seems BearBait is back, but Birol is not?!?!
I just noticed BearBait is back (he posted a reply to one of my questions). I noticed Birol is still not showing as a member. Seems BearBait has been posting since the 11th. I was wondering the same thing why one and not the other!!
Can we expect an answer to these last two questions?
T
;)
Apparently not, seems the powers that be let the "sticky" go so this thread would go away, but I can tell you it won't. I've stopped posting in all the other threads, haven't posted much at all since this happened. If they keep Birol away, I'll just fade away too in protest!! I don't what's going on here, but I expect an explanation...
"Apparently not, seems the powers that be let the "sticky" go so this thread would go away, but I can tell you it won't. I've stopped posting in all the other threads, haven't posted much at all since this happened. If they keep Birol away, I'll just fade away too in protest!! I don't what's going on here, but I expect an explanation..."
Well said, Cliff. My sentiments exactly. I realise that this is Dave's board and he can make his own policies, but it's extremely rude to totally ignore the questions of the members. The very least someone could do would be to have enough respect to say that we aren't entitled to a reply. And if it isn't Dave who has made this decision, then I think maybe his moderator has taken on a bit too much responsibility.
I have been a literal cheerleader for PUT, inviting people that I see and talk to to take a look at both the website and the magazine. I have worn my bumper stickers proudly, and stood up for Dave and the board during the broughaha over going to a pay site. When other members predicted that we would have faded away soon, I said "not as long as I, and some of my friends, are here." We'll see how long I'm here now.....
Toni
Quote from: Gone-CampingApparently not, seems the powers that be let the "sticky" go so this thread would go away, but I can tell you it won't. I've stopped posting in all the other threads, haven't posted much at all since this happened. If they keep Birol away, I'll just fade away too in protest!! I don't what's going on here, but I expect an explanation...
Yes... why is there no response?
Over the last 3 years we've had more people complain and quit the forums because of about Birol. And now it looks as if we'll lose a few more members because of him. I won't defend or field complaints about him anymore.
BTW I haven't had anyone quit because of Bearbait, Forestcreature, Genef, Cyclone, and a handful of others who left in protest over Birol. And I want them back.
Dave a couple of questions: if you have had so many people leave here over the past 3 years because of Birol, have you written and told him this and asked him to calm down his personal revelations or his silly "fluff" posts? Did you explain to him how he was violating your rules and warn him to cease or he'd be booted? Did you warn his supporters that they were be-friending someone who was a troublemaker for you and the board and you'd like them to lay off? How did we miss the fact that he was so destructive?
I agree, you cannot allow one person to ruin a board and drive away good members like the ones you mention, but it would make a lot of us feel better if you let us know what kind of warnings Birol had since we ourselves had no idea how bad he was and are completely shocked by what you have revealed here.. Thanks. Elisa
For questions about this thread. Please email the ADMIN