We are thinking of replacing our Astro van and maybe buying a used Ford Expedition. I am looking at a 2001 that has 34,000 miles on it. I have been looking around and have noticed 2 different engines. One is a 4.6 liter and the other is a 5.4 liter. We will probably be keeping our Westlake for a couple more years and then upgrading to either a smaller hybrid (19-21 ft) or a high-wall popup. I have no doubt that either engine will tow my Westlake but what about the hybrid or high-wall? Also could you tell me how much an Expedition is rated to tow? Any help would be appreciated.
Jacqui
The 5.4 engines have a history of spark plug problem, the plugs blow out of the number 3 cylinder. This is the same engine offered in the F-150s. My Explorer has the same 4.6 engine and its tow capacity is over 7000 pounds. :)
We don't have an Expedition, but do have the 5.4 engine in our van. It's been a good dependable motor. If you plan on moving up to a hybrid or a heavier PU I'd stay away from the 4.6
Quote from: ForestCreatureWe don't have an Expedition, but do have the 5.4 engine in our van. It's been a good dependable motor. If you plan on moving up to a hybrid or a heavier PU I'd stay away from the 4.6
Why? :)
Quote from: tlhdocWhy? :)
Power ! your gas mileage drop will be less while towing & not be much different than the 4.6 while not towing , handling inclines better... We get 18 to 20 mpg towing with the 5.4.... what do you get with the 4.6?
The Expedition with the 4.6 liter is rated to tow 6,300 lbs, thats only 800 lbs more than the Astro's 5,500 lb towing capacity.
The 5.4 liter engine, depending on the rear axle ratio is rated to tow 6,700 or 7,700 or 8,200 lbs,which if you are thinking of a Hybrid in a few years time is the better engine to get.
I presume you will be looking at Hybrids in the 4,000 to 5,000 lb range, so will need the extra towing capacity.
Well my trailer is 3000 pounds with bikes on top. 14 mpg when towing at 75mph. At 60 mph I get 17 towing. If we tow in flat land it is much better. How much does your trailer weigh? How much can you tow with your van?
When the spark plug blows it cost $1500 to $3000 for a new head. DH had the plug blow in December, just driving down the highway.
Hay Jacqui!
We have a 2003 Expedition with the 5.4L engine. It's rated to tow 7900 pounds. But don't just look at number of pounds it can tow, but also torque b/c that goes to how well it tows those pounds. Beyond that, I'm not very technically inclined, so I'll let the big boys weigh in on that. :)
Dave was a Chevy man before the Expy, but he really likes it. It's roomy and can take a whole carload from a campground to dinner if need be. ;) We haven't had any trouble with spark plugs, so I dont know anything about that. It's nice having all that power, especially on hills, and if we get a hybrid someday, we know we won't also have to get a new tow vehicle.
Hope that helps! :D
Thanks everyone for the input. I think we better go get a consumer reports and figure out what is going on with the engine/spark problems.
Jacqui
Quote from: OC CampersThanks everyone for the input. I think we better go get a consumer reports and figure out what is going on with the engine/spark problems.
Jacqui
Jaquai, get the 5.4 we have the 4.6. we opted for the everyday gas milage over the power but that was BEFORE the hybrid. I used to be able to do the toll road at 60 with barely any effort now its an effort to go 40-50. when I trade this in it will have the bigger engine.
Hey all!
The 4.6L came out in 1992 in Crown Vics/Grand Marquis/Town Cars and was Ford's first "modular" engine. I guess they designed major components ("modules") to be interchangable throughout an engine family... While I have heard of the aforementioned spark plug problem on 5.4's I can say from a LOT of experience that the 4.6 has proven indestructable. What a cool little V8! I have had them in many, many Police Crown Vic's and they simply love to rev high and hard. (While also withstanding abuse that police cars endure!) If you are used to an old pushrod V8 that makes torque way down low, then the 4.6 screamer will take some getting used to... When I ordered my new E-250 van, copcargirl was very surprised that we only got the 4.6L, being that we usually order the biggest baddest motor available. I told her that the 4.6 was waaaay more reliable than the base 4.2L V6 and the optional 5.4L, and the 6.8L V10 is a gas hog. We have a Powerstroke Diesel in our F-250 so we didn't want another diesel vehicle. The reason that we didn't get an E-350 was because the 4.6 isn't available. I tow a loaded car trailer with the van (5800 pounds), a boat, an ATV trailer, and of course the camper. I ordered the 4.10 rear axle ratio and have no problem doing whatever speed I want wherever I want with the 4.6L. Solo I get 18mpg if I put the cruise on @ 60mph, and towing I get 15 @ 60mph. I hope this helped or at the very least gave you some more confusing information... lol :screwy:
Quote from: tlhdocWell my trailer is 3000 pounds with bikes on top. 14 mpg when towing at 75mph. At 60 mph I get 17 towing. If we tow in flat land it is much better. How much does your trailer weigh? How much can you tow with your van?
When the spark plug blows it cost $1500 to $3000 for a new head. DH had the plug blow in December, just driving down the highway.
Tracy, the towing cap on my van is 6,700.. but we all know what they say and what we can all tow comfortably while maintaing acceptable power when needed in reality is different. If I were to tow that much I'd want at least a 250 Truck or Van with better suspension than my little 150 can offer.
The Aliner tops out loaded at 2,400 lbs and you have seen part of the mess I drag along in the back of the van !
I did a little digging on the net and found that this spark plug blowout issue you talked about is not just with the 5.4, but also the 4.6 and read of instances on the V10 too. We have 70,000 and so far so good..seems to be a hit and miss thing. In reading , the best thing that can be done to avoid this is to change the factory installed plugs, be sure to not cross thread and tighten to specs.
We did a tune up at 45,000 miles for no real reason other than we were taking a road trip, maybe we avoided that happening without even knowing.
Quote from: tlhdocWell my trailer is 3000 pounds with bikes on top. 14 mpg when towing at 75mph. At 60 mph I get 17 towing. If we tow in flat land it is much better. How much does your trailer weigh? How much can you tow with your van?
When the spark plug blows it cost $1500 to $3000 for a new head. DH had the plug blow in December, just driving down the highway.
When the spark plug blows it cost $1500 to $3000 for a new head. DH had the plug blow in December, just driving down the highway.[/QUOTE]
I have a 1997 Ford F-250, and the problem is the original plugs in the motor. They are rated for 100,000 miles, but have a problem with ruining the coil packs around 70,000-90,000. I had this happen at around 95,000 and the only damage is to the spark plug and coil pack. Because the engine uses coil packs on each plug rather than a distributor, you have to replace both. I decided to have all my plugs and coil packs replaced and the cost was $850. You can replace the individual plug an coil pack, but the cost for one is about $200. I would recommend replacing if they haven't been yet. If they have, you should be fine. I have over 100,000 miles on mine and it shows no signs of slowing down soon.
Carlstone
1997 F-250
Currently looking at PUCs to replace the tent
This is what i have learned 4.6/5.4 spark plugs,the plugs that come with the motors are not threded all the way to the seat of the plug there is a gap. The dealer that I get the parts to fix the police cars i work on told me to buy plugs with the threads all the way to the seat , so i did and not one car has had a problem (out of 120 cars) had three cars do it (plug blowout) before the swap i did this to my 2001 Expedition 5.4.with 260 hp and 350tq it pulls my hi-bird very good plenty of power to spare
We have the 5.4 in our 02' 150 van. We could not be happier with the engine. I have driven for hours towing our Utah, at ...let's just say high speeds, ...with bikes and canoe and kayaks on the TV roof and camper. If we did it again we would go for the 250 or 350 just because of the heavier duty suspension and hardware. The 150 jsut rides so low even before being loaded.
I appreciate reading everyones ideas regarding their engines. It is this kind of sharing that makes this site worth the time. There is seldom a right answer that fits everyone, but a great exchange of information.
We personally like the acceleration on the hills, and mountains. Power has never been an issue...(stopping is a whole other discussion (I will save for another thread) )
I would buy the 5.4 again.
Hey all you gearheads! I know Jacqui somewhat well, and I think what you're talking is Greek to her! I know it is to me, and my DH is quite the gearhead.
Jacqui, a friend replaced her Aerostar with an Expy with the smaller motor and loved it, but then they decided to buy a 28 foot trailer after being evacuated during the fires in Arrowhead last year. They couldn't even get the trailer up the grade to Blue Jay and had to call a friend with a big truck to take it up the mountain to their house. They traded in the Expy on a Suburban and have had all kinds of transmission problems right away with it (go figure!) that weren't under warranty, even though it was brand new.
Most people with the bigger motors on the Expedition seem to feel it's got plenty of power.
I'd ask Paul for you, but he's out of town and will be gone for a few weeks. If Randy wants to talk with him about it, feel free to E-mail us. You guys knew what to tell us about sway bars and brake controllers, Paul knows about tow rigs!
Quote from: Camping CoxesHey all you gearheads! I know Jacqui somewhat well, and I think what you're talking is Greek to her! I know it is to me, and my DH is quite the gearhead.
Jacqui, a friend replaced her Aerostar with an Expy with the smaller motor and loved it, but then they decided to buy a 28 foot trailer after being evacuated during the fires in Arrowhead last year. They couldn't even get the trailer up the grade to Blue Jay and had to call a friend with a big truck to take it up the mountain to their house. They traded in the Expy on a Suburban and have had all kinds of transmission problems right away with it (go figure!) that weren't under warranty, even though it was brand new.
Most people with the bigger motors on the Expedition seem to feel it's got plenty of power.
I'd ask Paul for you, but he's out of town and will be gone for a few weeks. If Randy wants to talk with him about it, feel free to E-mail us. You guys knew what to tell us about sway bars and brake controllers, Paul knows about tow rigs!
Thanks Trina. It isn't all that foreign to me. I am a car buff. Unfortunately, when you start talking torque and gear ratios that is a little over my head. I pass the spark plug issue on to Randy. We are still on the fence as to what to do. The Astro is still going strong but it does have 105,000 miles on it. Our trips are getting a little longer in distance and we are just a little nervous. Now I have to say in defense of the Astro, it has never left us stranded. We are definately in no rush to change tow vehicles but I don't want to make a big mistake in buying an expensive used vehicle.
Jacqui
Jaqui,
We run the Astros at work to the tune of 50,000 miles a year. We regularily get 200,000 miles out of them. The major problem we have is that the fuel pumps go out at about 125,000, other than that they are great trucks! I know that you have taken good care of yours and I would expect that you could easily get another 100,000 out of it. HTH.
Quote from: DiplomatJaqui,
We run the Astros at work to the tune of 50,000 miles a year. We regularily get 200,000 miles out of them. The major problem we have is that the fuel pumps go out at about 125,000, other than that they are great trucks! I know that you have taken good care of yours and I would expect that you could easily get another 100,000 out of it. HTH.
We just replaced the fuel pump not too long ago and today the air conditioner went. It has been a good van. Unfortunately, our new vehicle dreams keep getting swamped. Today the air conditioner went out and now the dog is sick. We have already spent $500 on her at the vet and another $400 will have to be spent next week. Oh yeah, the television is going too. When it rains it pours.:mad:
Jacqui
sorry to hear about your misfortuns
with fuel pumps never go below 1/4 tank of gas, the gas "cools" the pump always change the gas filter once a year 12000 miles a pluged gas filter will cause the pump to work harder shortning its life.. Larry
For popup use the 4.6 would be fine, but with a hybird or TT the 5.4 would be the better motor. I have a '98 F-150 with the 4.6 and it does a fine job towing the hybird (I believe my trailer weight dry is around 3400 lbs), but my trips are generally no more than an hour drive from the house. If I was to travel more extensively I would have opted for the 5.4. My biggest complaint with the 4.6 is the constant knock or ping the engine experiences under load.
From a personnal standpoint I would look for a newer body style Expedition, one of the improvements I like was replacing the soild rear axle with an independent suspension.
A great source for information any any light-duty Ford truck is //www.f150online.com The forum section has plenty of topics.
If the motor is pinging under a load then the ports are plugged where the EGR goes into the thottel body,this has to be physicly cleaned
by taking the thottel body apart but there is a big diffrence when
it is done no more ping.... Larry
see //www.F150online.com
since we are talking about expeditions and there seems to be some experts out there.
Mine doesn't want to start well, it has lots of cranking power, but doesn't seem to be getting fuel right away. I even tried the "ol push the pedal down once" trick. sometimes it's worse than others but can't relate it to the engine being hot or cold it does it either way. It's under warranty but I know it's going to be one of those waste my time things..They sit in it, it will start and they'll think I'm nuts :screwy: so I thought maybe some one would have some ideas so I can go in with some knowledge behind me
Here is some reading about hard start/ no start
http://www.f150online.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=188419
Thanks the link helped alot...that pretyy much sounds like it. Hopefully it's covered under warranty. The dealers charge too much $$$ :mad:
glad i could help
Larry,
Thanks for the tip, I'll take a look at the ports.
The EGR cools the combustion chamber by putting exaust gases back into the chamber when this doesnt happen you will get a ping or whats called detonation or spark knock