We finally are breaking out and buying a Pop-up and want to make sure we have adequate towing ability. We are looking at a Coleman Bayside so its a pretty big unit and have a 3.8L Ford Windstar. Will this vehicle be adequate enough to tow this. Any replies would be helpful. Thank you in advance.
Consult your owners manual. Should tell you the tow rating of that van with that engine. I think you tow rating is not more than 3500 lbs with the 3.8 L.
So you will have to research how much the bayside weighs. Consider also People, cargo, and other thing add weight and play a big part.
Not sure how well the Windstar will handle that big of a camper. It may do fine and I'm sure others will chime in.
I do have a TV for sale with a 7500lb tow rating on this thread if you are interested, I'll even leave the brake controller installed.
http://www.arveeclub.com/showthread.php?t=53836 (//%22http://www.arveeclub.com/showthread.php?t=53836%22)
Not to be a buzzkill here but, A windstar is rated for 3500#'s. I'm not a Coleman owner but I'm sure a Bayside has to weigh in at around 3200#'s. Given that, if you load equipment, bodies, etc., that will put you well over the weight and in an unsafe situation. For that PU I would not tow it with anything less than a TV that could tow 5200#'s. Remember, you have to include everything in the GVWR. The weight of people in the TV, camping gear, coolers, etc. Plus, as a safety factor you should have about 10% less weight than your maximum.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Maybe if you can find a 2001 Dodge truck for sale somewhere, it would tow easy. LOL Chas
It says the GVWR is 5540#'s for the Ford Windstar. Its hard to distinguish what that # means. Is this the tow weight allowed and does this mean I'm okay with the Bayside? Thanks again for all of your quick replys. The weight of the Bayside is 3250#'s. Also I am getting a sway bar put on along with the hitch.
Quote from: gonecampingIt says the GVWR is 5540#'s for the Ford Windstar. Its hard to distinguish what that # means. Is this the tow weight allowed and does this mean I'm okay with the Bayside? Thanks again for all of your quick replys. The weight of the Bayside is 3250#'s. Also I am getting a sway bar put on along with the hitch.
I'm sure others will chime in ~ as I am definitely no expert on the subject ...
Without knowing what year or options you have on that Windstar ... I'm only guessing. I would assume that the 5540 is a combined weight (CGVWR) ~ the weight of the van and ALL the stuff in it PLUS the weight of the trailer and ALL the stuff in it shouldn't exceed that number. Near as I can tell the curb weight of your van is about 1600 lbs. Add in a couple people and some supplies and you'll be pushing 2000 lbs.
That Bayside is one HEAVY trailer. I'm assuming 3250 is the unloaded weight. I camp very simply and take little gear with me ~ but I still have about 300 lbs of stuff that goes in the trailer. That would put you at about 3550 ... add that to your TV weight ... you're over your limit.
That would be cutting it way too close in my book. I have an Astro van that's rated to tow a lot more than that and I simply won't do it. I wouldn't feel comfortable and I would be constantly worried about the safety of my family.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong in the information I've included here.
I have to agree with Kelly. I have a 2001 Dodge Ram pickup with a 3.9L V-6 that has a tow rating of 3600 pounds. It makes no sense that a Windstar would have a rating of 5500 pounds. I think you are right on with CGVWR.
**Also, make SURE you have an electric brake controller installed before you tow it anywhere. It's one thing to tow it, it's completly another thing to stop it.
I've found some info and a link to the full page. This should shed some light on it.
Performance
Base Number of Cylinders: 6 Base Engine Size: 3.8 liters
Base Engine Type: V6 -1 Horsepower: 200 hp
Max Horsepower: 4900 rpm Torque: 240 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 3600 rpm Maximum Payload: 1831 lbs.
Maximum Towing Capacity: 3500 lbs. Drive Type: FWD
Turning Circle: 39.3 ft.
http://www.allautoreviews.com/auto_reviews/ford/ford-windstar.htm
I am not an expert either but my personal feeling is the Bayside may be a little too much trailer for your Windstar. Most of the mini vans out there can only tow a max of 3,500 lbs. If your Bayside comes in at 3250 that doesn't leave much weight for additional people and cargo. Even if you apck light you may be pushing it. You will also most likely need a weight distribution hitch along with your sway bar. Usually you need one if towing more than 2000 lbs.
If you are going to be towing on level ground and not going thru the mountains you may be alright for a while but I would be really stressed out towing that much weight. We have a 2003 Odyssey and when our Astro (old tow vehicle) died we had to go out and buy another tow vehicle. I know deep down that my Honda is no match for our big Westlake (which is pretty similar in weight to the Bayside.)
If you decide to go through with the purchase you will want to make sure you have a tranny cooler put on your van, and double check your owners manual about the weight distribution hitch.
Best of luck with your purchase. Owning a popup is a wonderful experience but with your family in the car it also needs to be a safe experience.
Jacqui
Mini Van + Bayside = Problems ($$$)
I'd look at a smaller trailer or a real truck. maybe a used one, just for camping??
But I wouldn't pull with a minivan, at least not a Bayside.
Let's see, first the 2005 Bayside is rated at 3770 pounds maximum gross weight and usually comes off the dealer's lot at around 3000 pounds without any of your "stuff" added in.
Second, if your Windstar didn't come with a towing package it's towing limit without MAJOR upgrades is 2000 pounds.
Even if the van has the towing package that 3500 pound limit also includes everything in the van except the driver. That means passengers, cargo, fuel, dogs, etc all have to be subtracted from the 3500 pounds before figuring the maximum trailer weight.
Can you tow a Bayside with a Windstar, sure. Should you do it, JMHO, but NO.
Methinks that you are looking at too much PU for that Windstar.
I own a Mesa that weighs in at around around 3,300 # loaded, (A/C, furnace, WH, 3-way fridge, front storage with camping supplies, twin propane bottles, etc) and my 200 HP Silverado just handles all that weight. My Silverado is rated to 6,200 #. Once you get into the mountains, I think you will be passed by people on bicycles.
I had a 1999 Windstar with the towing package. It was rated to tow 3500 pounds. I have a PU with a 10 foot box, maxed out it weighs 3000 pounds. I felt that I was at the maximum capacity of the Windstar when I towed the PU. I really, REALLY loved the Windstar, but moved on to an Explorer for the towing capacity. After towing with the Explorer I would not want to go back to towing my PU with a mini-van.:(
I've done some research since yesterday and have found out that the 2000 Bayside weighs 2608 lbs with a rating of 3250lbs. This means that we have roughly 600 lbs of extras and cargo that can be loaded in the PU. This model doesn't have AC or heat so that helps. My Windstar is a 2003 with a 3.8L rated at 3500 lbs towing capacity so as long as we don't go over the 3250, we should be in decent shape. We do not have the tow package on our van but was told that installing the electric brakes and sway bar is essentially what the tow package is. I have 3 little ones and don't want to put any of them in harms way but also don't want to over react. Thanks for all the replies. We have already put a down payment on it and am getting very concerned. Any additional comments or knowledge would help. Thanks again.
If you really must tow with that combo, at least get a Tranny cooler, If you have one get a bigger one. And add a temp gage for the transmission, so you know what's going on there. Not a light an actual gage.
Unfortunately you were told wrong about the trailer towing package. The windstar is a special case in that a lot of the package comes in the upgrade to the SEL model which in later years is the only model to get the towing package.
The SEL comes with larger halfshafts, extra cooling for both IIRC the trans and the engine, etc.
Plus that 3500 pound rating includes all the family, and loading you put in the van. A couple of people other than the driver, a full tank of gas and even the receiver hitch all come off the 3500 pound rating.
Back to my original post on being a Buzzkill...Seriously, it's unanimous that you will have too much PU for your van and could create a strain on the TV as well as a danger to yourself and your family. I wanted a pop-up with a slide out dinette so bad when I saw them. But since my TV at the time would only tow 3600#'s, not only did I know deep down I could not pull it but the salesman at the dealer I went to told me he would not sell me a PU he knew I could not tow.
That is a whole other thing, if your dealer(if your buying from one) is selling you a PU that he KNOWS is a danger to pull with your TV what does that say about him and his company. If I had my PU for sale and a family came to purchase it driving a TV that I know would put them in harms way I would not sell it to them.
Thank you everyone for your thoughts. When in doubt, err to the side of safety so even though its hurting my wallet, we are breaking out further for a legitimate TV.
Quote from: gonecampingThank you everyone for your thoughts. When in doubt, err to the side of safety so even though its hurting my wallet, we are breaking out further for a legitimate TV.
I think that is a smart move (applause)
Quote from: thevikingI think that is a smart move (applause)
What TheViking said ...
although he really is a buzzkill, isn't he? ;) :) :D :p :J
Quote from: KellyWhat TheViking said ...
although he really is a buzzkill, isn't he? ;) :) :D :p :J
Hey... Easy
Smart decission..... or opt for a smaller model PU.
You won't be sorry either way.
I think you made the right decision.:)
Its funny because I remember when I was young, we had a PU and then a trailer and my father would haul these with and old jalopy station wagon with no sway bars or WDH or anything. I know that nowadays these campers have more weight as they are more sophisticated but I guess I was thinking of the old days. The Viking is certainly a buzzkill but he sounds like he knows what hes talking about and if it wasn't so unanimous, I may try using the Windstar but I won't. Any ideas for a TV that would be good for a family of 5 that still would be useful for carpooling multiple kids to sporting events but still be good for towing would be helpful. Money is a big factor. I don't want to get rid of my 2003 Windstar and get a 2000 TV and pay more. The Explorers seem to be reasonable especially with the 3rd seat in the back. Thanks once again.
Don't know anything about towing with an Exploder cuz mine just wasn't equipped to do that (manual transmission, 4wd and a few other options made it a less-than-ideal tow vehicle) ... but I do know I loved it for hauling kids!
It was a great vehicle for me for day-to-day driving and I think there are more than a few Explorer drivers around here that will tell you it's a fine tow vehicle. I didn't have the third seat ~ hence a new-to-me van when the kids outnumbered available seats! LOL
As far as safe towing ~ it's a whole different world from our parent's, eh? I remember going on camping trips with my family. We'd put the tent and other gear in the boat and hitch that to the pickup. The back of the truck (under the topper) was full of food, sleeping bags and 4 kids! Can't see that happening today. ;)
Glad you recognize that we're not out to kill your fun, but to make sure you get there safely ...
You might want to start a new thread to talk about possible Tow Vehicles ... [/FONT]
WOW, I had typed out a reply, but then noticed you had posted earlier so I am editing this.
You say your windstar is rated to tow 3,500lbs yet it does not have the tow package????? This is conflicting information.
The Windstar with the 3.8 engine without a tow package is only rated to tow 2,000 lbs.
The tow package does add numerous things, offhand I think it is a larger battery, larger generator, a transmission cooler, larger crankshaft... I'm sure there is more..
The listed weight of 2,600 lbs for the Bayside, is a stripped down unit, with no battery, propane, awning, empty hot water heater, ect. Tyen when you add in all the stuff you need to pack inside, sheets, pillows. pots pans, plates, clothes, hoses, chocks, chairs, food, drinks, toys, it will add up.
When I was emptying my Coleman Niagara to leave it in to the dealer for some service work, and I weighed everything, it totaled 700 lbs of stuff we would bring along.
I would highlt recommend looking at tow vwhicles with a rating of 5,000 lbs inorder to SAFELY tow a 2000 Bayside.
If the truth was known the weight they put out as "Towing Capacity" is probably way less than the vehicle is capable of. Case in point: I have a 2001 Dodge Ram 1/2 ton pickup with a 3.9L V6. By 1/2 ton, they are saying I can carry 1000 lbs of stuff in the back of my truck. I have loaded 2150 lbs of dirt in the back and yes it did squat quite a bit but it still performed. So, I think if your weight is at your TV's maximum you will still be alright with the right equipment like brake controllers, sway bars, and a WDH. I'm not saying to go out and buy a camper that is too big for your TV, just thowing an opinion in the ring. Just like another post in here, my Dad towed some pretty big things back in the day with his truck too and it did fine. I think people these days are just more cautious or nervous these days. How many of you wore helmets while riding bikes when you were a kid? Now it's a law! I don't think we turned out too bad even after a couple of bike crashes(except maybe a few of us and you know who you are).
I am also a new Jayco trailer owner, as I purchased a 2006 model 1006 just this past August 1st, 2005.
I have been on four camping trips where we towed this trailer with my Jeep Cherokee (downsize model). The trany does get a bit warm and the shimmy and shake of the trailer is a bit annoying, even on the short 2-3 hour trips we took last summer.
The best details I could find indicate that my 4WD Jeep Cherokee has a towing capacity of 3500 lbs. However, Since my Jeep does not have the towing package installed (nor a trany cooler), does that mean that it would be rated lower than this?
I found out recently that in addition to my 3 year old daughter we may be having triplets arriving this next summer. The immediate question comes up, what mini-van can I get that will hold my new family while I tow the 2900 lb trailer (empty weight)?
Others have suggested a Chevy Venture or something like that. What do you think?
Quote from: geraldgroganI am also a new Jayco trailer owner, as I purchased a 2006 model 1006 just this past August 1st, 2005.
I have been on four camping trips where we towed this trailer with my Jeep Cherokee (downsize model). The trany does get a bit warm and the shimmy and shake of the trailer is a bit annoying, even on the short 2-3 hour trips we took last summer.
The best details I could find indicate that my 4WD Jeep Cherokee has a towing capacity of 3500 lbs. However, Since my Jeep does not have the towing package installed (nor a trany cooler), does that mean that it would be rated lower than this?
I found out recently that in addition to my 3 year old daughter we may be having triplets arriving this next summer. The immediate question comes up, what mini-van can I get that will hold my new family while I tow the 2900 lb trailer (empty weight)?
Others have suggested a Chevy Venture or something like that. What do you think?
I think the Chevy Astro-Van is the one that people have been talking about on here. I have actually been looking for one myself. My main reason for wanting the Astro-Van is so that we can take the grand kids with us, without having to take a separate vehicle. I could also use one for my work.
I am currently towing my PU with my 2001 Chrysler Concorde 4dr sedan. It does a good job and I have absolutely no problem towing my 2700# PU with it (although I
DO NOT recommend it to others). I can't even tell that it's back there until I start up a grade. That little 2.7L V6 has to work pretty hard on a long grade but I've never had engine or trans heating problems (I installed a trans cooler and trans temp gage). Braking is not a problem as the trailer has brakes. I've even tried to overheat the TV brakes and they won't. I have done some extensive brake modifications.
As for your Jeep Cherokee, it is extremely easy to add a trans cooler to most vehicles and you can buy a good one for around $40-$75 (bigger is always better). My big question would be, does your engine overheat while climbing hills? If the engine temp remains normal, chances are the trans will be OK. Your existing trans cooler is inside of the engines radiator. If the trans is overheating, it will normally show up as a higher temp on your engine temp gage. Although I would still recommend a trans cooler and changing your trans fluid every 25K miles. There is now a "Lifetime" synthetic trans fluid out for Chrysler products. It's called ATF 4. I
HIGHLY recommend it for your Jeep (I'm pretty sure that you have a Mopar trans). It has far superior heat dissipating properties and it also increases your clutch pack efficiency (especially when towing).
If the trailer has a shimmy and shake, I doubt a different TV will help that. You may want to find out why it is shimmy & shaking. You may have too low tongue weight, too high tongue height, a bent wheel (fairly common on trailers), a broken spring or an alignment problem.
--------------------Astro-Van----------------
http://research.cars.com/go/crp/reviews.jsp?makeid=9&modelid=74&year=2002&myid=&acode=&revid=46533&crpPage=summary.jsp&revlogtype=21&aff=nationalThe Astro uses a 4.3-liter V-6 engine that produces 190 horsepower. The four-speed-automatic transmission incorporates a Tow/Haul mode that alters shift patterns when transporting heavy loads. A RWD passenger model can tow up to 5,400 pounds, while the Cargo Van is capable of pulling 5,800 pounds. AWD Astros offer towing capacities that are 200 pounds lower. RWD passenger Astros have a 1,648-pound payload rating, vs. 1,527 pounds for AWD models.
Hey all!
Instead of guessing your towing capacity, why not know? Just click on Trailer Life Magazines TV guide at http://www.trailerlife.com/output.cfm?id=42175 (//%22http://www.trailerlife.com/output.cfm?id=42175%22) or better yet, look in your owners manual?
Quote from: copcarguyHey all!
Instead of guessing your towing capacity, why not know? Just click on Trailer Life Magazines TV guide at http://www.trailerlife.com/output.cfm?id=42175 or better yet, look in your owners manual?
HMMMM! His Cherokee is a '96. That search only goes back to '99.
He can search here but he has to click on his particular model vehicle.
http://research.cars.com/go/crp/features.jsp?year=1996&makeid=23&modelid=244&myid=2289&defaultSelection=true&logtype=7&aff=nationalI think that he may be surprised to find out that his 4 wheel drive vehicle has a substantially lower towing capacity.
For instance the 4x4 2dr SE is:
Max trailer weight 1,000 lbs.
geraldgrogan congratulations on the impending birth!
Can you give us more detail of the problem when towing the PU?
As for a vehicle that has more seating capacity and can tow, have you considered a full size van? A friend of mine tows with an older Chevy conversion nicknamed the "MOOSE", because of its size. Plenty of room for kids/babies and all of their stuff.:)
I think I've seen some ads on TV (television, that is) that show a new model of Jeep that is a 7 passenger model. Don't have any information on it, but the Grand Cherokee and the Liberty models are both rated at 5,000 lbs. I would think this newer model would have a similar capacity.
Quote from: waveryHMMMM! His Cherokee is a '96. That search only goes back to '99.
He can search here but he has to click on his particular model vehicle.
http://research.cars.com/go/crp/features.jsp?year=1996&makeid=23&modelid=244&myid=2289&defaultSelection=true&logtype=7&aff=national
I think that he may be surprised to find out that his 4 wheel drive vehicle has a substantially lower towing capacity.
For instance the 4x4 2dr SE is:
Max trailer weight 1,000 lbs.
Hey wavery - if you re-click on that link, and read the
entire webpage, you'll see that they have the information for PRE-99's available if you email them.
Quote from: copcarguyHey wavery - if you re-click on that link, and read the entire webpage, you'll see that they have the information for PRE-99's available if you email them.
I saw that :) . Just thought that one would be easier than emailing and waiting for a reply.
As I was attempting to see exactly what the towing capacity and GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight rating?) is for this Jeep (using http://research.cars.com/ ).
I always have the same issue when looking up this Jeep. The Jeep is built in 1995. It is not the sport model nor the Country nor the SE model. It is 4WD however. All I know is that it has the 4.0 engine and is fairly stripped down.
I found it hard to believe that this vehicle is rated for 4900 lbs towing capacity as mentioned on cars.com.
Just to double check I searched and I found the following information on my Jeep (it's a 1995 not 1996).
http://www.internetautoguide.com/car-specifications/09-int/1995/jeep/cherokee/index.html
Weights:
gross vehicle weight rating (kg) 2,064 (4,550 lbs)
and curb weight (kg) 1,305 (2877 lbs)
When pulling the trailer on the open highway for over an hour or more I notice the console (directly above the trany) getting fairly warm to the touch. Given that my Jeep has all dummy gages, I wouldn't know the temp of the engine or the trany :screwy: .
Other symptoms I notice are that when the Jeep and the PU Trailer are fully loaded the Jeep rear end sits very low to the ground and sags substantially (large front storage box causes too much tongue weight I imagine). I am wondering if a new set of heavy duty shocks with perhaps a stabilizer bar in the back would do the trick. I get a steady shimmy as I go down the expressway at 65 mph. As others have said, it is 'white knuckles the entire way'
I am not sure this Jeep (with 140,500 miles) is worth the trouble to put in these added upgrades, however I wanted to make sure I understood the problems before I ran out and purchased another TV, and possibly ended up with the very same issues.
With the details for GVWR shown above, what would that mean the maximum trailer weight should be for this Jeep? :confused:
Quote from: geraldgroganAs I was attempting to see exactly what the towing capacity and GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight rating?) is for this Jeep (using http://research.cars.com/ ).
Weights:
gross vehicle weight rating (kg) 2,064 (4,550 lbs)
and curb weight (kg) 1,305 (2877 lbs)
I'm responding to geraldgrogan's message, deleting most of your message to save space. The first link I clicked on came up Dodge Grand Caravan with my zip code. Didn't give me any usable information. The second was on a Jeep, but didn't see anything on towing.
We own a 2004 Grand Cherokee Laredo with the inline 4.0L 6 cylinder engine. The tow numbers are similar to the current Jeep Liberty model which might be comparable to the Cherokee. I will give you numbers for my vehicle from our owners manual in hopes it may help some.
All weights are in pounds.
Weight on registration FWIW: 3880
Front axle: 2750
Rear axle: 2950
GVWR Jeep: 5400
Tow capacity with class III hitch: 5000
Max tongue weight: 750
GCWR 9550
I find no VWR (empty weight) numbers for the Jeep, niether on the vehicle or in the manual. Without this number, it's difficult to compute cargo capacity.
GVWR of our camper: 2440 We normally tow at 2140
Our actual GCWR: 6200
Hope this might help in your situation. Your GVWR is a bit lower than mine. I'd think the other numbers would be proportionally lower. I know the reality might be different. What I got here is the best I can do to help you out. In the end, you might want to consult a Jeep dealer. They should be able to get accurate numbers for any model produced.
You may consider adding a transmission cooler to your list of upgrades. The rear end of our Jeep also shows a dip when towing. Because of this, we do not tow in 4WD.
Most Minivans without factory tow packages are only rated at about 2000 lbs. Minivans don't usually make good tow vehicles.
Check the link that copcarguy gave you:
http://research.cars.com/go/crp/fea...=7&aff=national
You can email them your 13 digit V.I.N. # and they will email your specs.
I noticed that the '95 has leaf springs in the rear (didn't notice '96). That could make the difference in towing capacity. If you're sagging, you could add a leaf to your springs or simply add a set of air shocks:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/80-96-FORD-Tr-JEEP-NEW-AIR-SHOCKS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33590QQitemZ8027448067QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V
http://www.racepages.com/brands/buy.php?part_name=shock_absorber&brand=monroe&make=jeep&model=cherokee&year=1995
If you install air shocks, just pull into a gas station after you load your trailer, and fill them with air until your vehicle is level. After you return, let the air out to return your normal vehicle height. They work great.
Remember, the biggest issue with towing capacity is stopping distance. The GVW has little to do with towing capacity. In some cases, it can make towing more difficult because the engine and trans is moving the total package. The more weight that they have to move, the less efficient the engine and trans become.
If/when you ad the trans cooler, it is simple to add a temp gage at the same time. Just make sure that you install the sending unit in the line that is moving fluid from the trans to the cooler. That will give you the temp of the fluid after it goes through the trans.
An aftermarket temp gage is also easy to install and relatively inexpensive.
I work ford a Ford dealer and the most when properly equiped is 3500 lbs. and no more than that. If you want to tow more than I would look at getting some type of SUV that can handle that. The small suv's like escapes and crv the most om almost all off these is no more than 3500 lbs. max if that. My 03 Explorer Sport Trac 4.0l V6 4x4 can tow 5080 lbs when equiped with tow package and weight distribution.. My 05 Explorer 4dr 4.6l V8 4X4 with weight distribution can tow 7100 LBS with tow package. I find that suv with fullframes and that are rear wheel tow can tow the best unless you want to buy a big truck. We have a 05 Fleetwood Niagara which weighs around 3800 lbs loaded.
Hope this helps
Mark '74
Susan '78
Hey all!
You can check Trailer Life's tow rating guides here http://www.trailerlife.com/output.cfm?id=42175 (//%22http://www.trailerlife.com/output.cfm?id=42175%22) broken down for each engine/ tranny/ gear ratio combo.
Model - Tow Rating
Windstar Van 3.8L V-6 - 2,000
Windstar Wagon 3.8L V-6 - 2,000
Windstar Wagon 3.8L V-6 - 3,500*
*Requires Class II Trailer Tow Package.
This is from the Trailer Life Website (http://www.trailerlife.com/downloads/03towingguide.pdf) , assuming your Windstar is a 2003 model.