PopUp Times

Getting ready to buy our first popoup. The usual story, been camping for years in a tent, in all kinds of weather and with small children. We are a hardy crew. So I know about tents and rain and how after 24 hours of a good soak or a few hours of a driving rain that hits the side of the tent, they leak.

What I am wondering is how do popups do in these same situations? The one we are considering purchasing has "Sunbrella" tenting.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Quote from: cbirdGetting ready to buy our first popoup. The usual story, been camping for years in a tent, in all kinds of weather and with small children. We are a hardy crew. So I know about tents and rain and how after 24 hours of a good soak or a few hours of a driving rain that hits the side of the tent, they leak.

What I am wondering is how do popups do in these same situations? The one we are considering purchasing has "Sunbrella" tenting.

Thanks in advance for your input.

The Sunbrella works excellent. Absolutely no leaks from the material or stitching. I used to build cockpit enclosures for yachts, using Sunbrella. I sailed mine around the world and spent a lot of time in pouring rain in the tropics and breaking seas in storms at sea. I never once had a failure with the Sunbrella in 14 years of using and building with it.

Quote from: waveryThe Sunbrella works excellent. Absolutely no leaks from the material or stitching. I used to build cockpit enclosures for yachts, using Sunbrella. I sailed mine around the world and spent a lot of time in pouring rain in the tropics and breaking seas in storms at sea. I never once had a failure with the Sunbrella in 14 years of using and building with it.

This is great news! Can't wait to share it with my husband who has a knack for choosing the side of the tent that leaks.

Quote from: cbirdThis is great news! Can't wait to share it with my husband who has a knack for choosing the side of the tent that leaks.

This is the exact same material as used in the PU. Let me assure you that this sailboat gets a LOT more punishment than your PU will ever get. It stays dry as a bone inside (with the exception of some condensation in cold weather).

Quote from: waveryThis is the exact same material as used in the PU. Let me assure you that this sailboat gets a LOT more punishment than your PU will ever get. It stays dry as a bone inside (with the exception of some condensation in cold weather).

 Nice boat...One other question. How long can we expect the material to last?

We used to tent camp.  Nylon, canvas, etc. all "let water through".  We have been 95-99% drier in the pop-up than in a tent.

The moisture problems that can come up are:

• Condensation while in use.  Leaving a window open a few inches or turning on the furnace has always fixed this.
• Condensation while in storage.  If you live in a damp or humid climate (such as Florida or the PNW) using a moisture absorber like damp-rid can help.
• Setting up/taking down in the rain.  It's usually not difficult to get everything ready, wait for a lul in the rain, then do a "speed takedown" of the tenting and roof.  We can limit rain exposure to 3-5 minutes tops.  Open her up and dry her out as soon as possible after this, because the tenting is wet and will cause interior problems.

(Lowering voice so rain gods don't hear)

Getting out of the rain was one of several reasons for us to move to a pop-up.  The net result was a truly amazing string of good luck, where it seems like it almost never rains on our vacations any more.  After taking the Taj to more than 25 states and using it for more than 120 nights, I don't think we've had more than 8-10 rainy days or nights.

When it does rain, we are very happy to not be in a tent!

Austin

Quote from: cbirdNice boat...One other question. How long can we expect the material to last?

Not very long when in contact with Jarts, darts, marshmallow skewers, knives, and pointy writing tools.  The stuff also dosn't hold up well to direct flame.  Elephants and trees rubbing against the tenting can abrade it.

So, avoid sharp objects, rubbing things, and fire and you should be good to go for at least 15-20 years.  Assuming you have it Popped-Up and exposed to the sun's ultraviolet rays about 90 days a year, and you store it in a clean and dry condition.

Quote from: cbirdNice boat...One other question. How long can we expect the material to last?

Sunbrella is vulnerable to 2 things, sun & chafe (not including knives & fire :p )

You could expect 3-5 years on a boat in the sun every day in the tropics. Therefore, I don't think the sun will be an issue on the PU for several decades unless you leave it up in your yard all year round :D . The awning, in front of my apt building is made of Sunbrella and has been there for longer than 7 years. I believe that it was a few years old when I took over this building. The umbrellas on the roof were made at the same time. They are up (in direct SoCal sunlight) 365 days a year and don't show any signs of wear.

Chafe is another matter all together. This material is absolutely the best choice for the PU but you must take care that it is not constantly rubbing against anything rough (like a tree branch), like when the wind is blowing. It does very well with rounded smooth surfaces. It does not like rough surfaces and will wear a hole in one outing if you don't watch it.

Nylon tent material is much more resistant to chafe but the drawbacks far out-way the advantages.

Here's a quick tip. If your Sunbrella ever does get a hole in it, burn a circle around the hole (preferably with a hot-knife). This will keep it from tearing until you can put a patch on it. Sunbrella should always be cut with a hot-knife instead of scissors. The threads are actually made of acrylic (plastic) it melts and seals itself when cut with a hot-knife. It unravels when cut with a scissors.

The thing that you will enjoy about a popup when it rains is that you have a place to sit or move around.

Really nice to climb up on a bunk and listen to the rain and keep out of each others way.

We always kept a couple of board games in the camper just in case of rain.  Of course, Candyland was the favorite one when they were young.

Having the awning is also nice.  If it isn't heavy rain, another nice place to lounge.

If it is raining heavily, you may want to just move the pillows and sleeping bags a little away form the canvas.  Sometimes you can get some wicking which ends up with some damp spots.

Camping in the rain is really no fun no matter what rig you have but a popup does make it a lot nicer than a tent.

Good luck and happy camping.

One thing I left out is that rain is quite a bit louder falling on our pop-up roof (made of ABS "plastic") than it ever would sound on a tent.  It's not an offensive noise, but it can wake me from a sound sleep.

Austin

I remember one year we got out about 10 times, it rained every time and we never had a leak.
I agree with Gene, I like to hear it rain when I'm in the bunk.
D.

Quote from: cbirdSo I know about tents and rain and how after 24 hours of a good soak or a few hours of a driving rain that hits the side of the tent, they leak.
 
What I am wondering is how do popups do in these same situations? The one we are considering purchasing has "Sunbrella" tenting.

We have camped about 250 nights in our current PU.  There have been times it has been left set up for 2 weeks at home.  It has Sunbrella tenting and other than a few dirty marks the tenting looks like new.  Sunbrella is warranted for 5 years form the factory (gee do you think that is why Fleetwood offers a 5 year warranty?).  It is water proof, breathable, mildew proof (although any dirt on the Sunbrella can mildew) and fire retardant.  If you clean the tenting with a solvent you can remove the water proofness, but it is easily reapplied applied using 303's Hi Teck Fabric Guard.  If you take good care of the tenting it will last for many years.  Good luck with the hunt for a PU.:)

I usually bring a large tarp to cover our PU with when we camp. Although our PU doesn't leak, I cover it anyways if there is any threat of rain. When I do cover it, I drape over the PU with the tarp and then open it. I haven't had any problems with the beds or bedding getting wet. As far as condensation goes, I open a window a bit to ventilate.

One of our pop-ups had an aluminum roof and when it rained real hard in the middle of the night, it sounded like a herd of elephants running across the top!  But we stayed completely dry.  Well, I stayed completely dry.  DH was outside trying to get the chairs under the awning real quick to keep them somewhat dry!  

Our Coleman has been rained on for many hours in Lake Tahoe.  It was just a constant drumming on the roof.  We stayed dry and warm and played many rounds of rummy and Uno.
 
We live in sunny So. Cal., so we don't have to wrry about rain very much, but when we got rain, we stayed dry.  You need to read your manufacturer's directions about cleaning the canvas.  We don't use heavy soap on those occasions we feel the need to wipe down the canvas.  We use a soft car brush and a light spray of the house to wipe off all the gunk that might accumulate after a week of camping under a messy tree.  (Popup Gizmos takes care of that problem too).

We went through 8 1/2 inches of rain in less than 8 hours this last fall with nary a drop inside.  This was up in NW Missouri on the river across from Kansas (Leavenworth).  Morning came, clouds went away and the sun came out for a gorgeous day except for the flooding everywhere.  

It was amazing and I was frankly impressed with how dry we were with no condensation or anything.  I had lots of time to think since we couldn't sleep with the constant thunder.  What was interesting was the water that collected under the beds where the vinolon goes around and velcros on.  I just unhooked them and it fell out.  

It was the worst rainstorm (unforecasted of course) I have ever been in.  Imagine, a bad thunderstorm.  You know the ones that last for less than a half hour.  This one went on like that for 8 hours.

Thanks to all for your notes. We anxiously await our first rain in the popup!

Quote from: KavoomWe went through 8 1/2 inches of rain in less than 8 hours this last fall with nary a drop inside.  This was up in NW Missouri on the river across from Kansas (Leavenworth).  Morning came, clouds went away and the sun came out for a gorgeous day except for the flooding everywhere.  

It was amazing and I was frankly impressed with how dry we were with no condensation or anything.  I had lots of time to think since we couldn't sleep with the constant thunder.  What was interesting was the water that collected under the beds where the vinolon goes around and velcros on.  I just unhooked them and it fell out.  

It was the worst rainstorm (unforecasted of course) I have ever been in.  Imagine, a bad thunderstorm.  You know the ones that last for less than a half hour.  This one went on like that for 8 hours.

To cbird:  Pop-ups can be a dangerous place in a thunderstorm.  Pop-ups offer no protection from lightning, falling limbs/trees, extreme winds or tornadoes.  Be sure you are safe before deciding to ride out a T-storm in a pop-up.

I am sure Kavoom knew what they were doing and had thought the situation through.

Austin

Here's a handy tip for those of you that get stuck in a lightening storm. First off, the safest place in the world is in your car (assuming you don't have an all plastic car). The car offers you what is called a "Cone of protection". It is not likely to get struck because it has rubber tires and is not grounded. In the unlikely event that it does get struck,the metal in the car will absorb the lightening strike (often causing some damage to the car) and the occupants should be safe as long as they are not touching any metal.

The PU will offer some of the same properties but I suppose that there is a 1 in a billion chance that you could take a direct hit in the bunk end. However, the PU should be pretty thoroughly grounded it the jacks are on the wet ground. The lightening would then be more apt to hit the aluminum roof or siding and be directed to ground, thus putting you in that "Cone of protection". The aluminum roof, 4 side lifts (connecting the roof to the frame) and the frame itself should be an ideal "Faraday's cage,"  It would surely do a lot of damage to the electrical in the PU but the occupants should be a lot more safe than being outside or in a tent.

All  that being said, if a large bolt of lightening strikes anything near your body, you may well get hit by a "trailer", large enough to kill you. I guess the bottom line is, there is really no completely safe place to hide from lightening. Then again, that is surely not a big enough threat to determine the course of your decision making process of buying or staying in a PU.

I have studied this extensively because I spent many a years living on a boat, at sea and this is a real big concern in that situation.
http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/lightning.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d000001-d000100/d000007/d000007.html

As for tornadoes, that's a completely different story. In the event of a tornado bulletin, get the heck out. Have you ever wondered why so many trailer parks get hit by tornadoes?

Tornadoes are a phenomenon of very low pressure that comes from high up inside of a swirling mass of clouds and finds it's way to the earth. Kinda like when you flush your toilet. You overwhelm the toilet bowl with the high pressure of the water coming down from the tank. This forms a tunnel (if you will) of low pressure that actually sucks the water swirling down the very small drain hole at a very fast rate. You will notice that the "funnel" inside your toilet avoids touching the sides of the toilet. That's because there is higher pressure on the outside of the funnel wall and that pushes water away from the funnel and  steers the funnel away from the side of the toilet. However, the center of the funnel is desperately searching for an area of lower pressure from which to suck air up through that center of the funnel. In the case of the toilet, it is the much larger sewer pipe that has plenty of low pressure air available.

While the cone of the tornado is on the ground, it is constantly searching out areas of lower pressure (cold air) and avoiding areas of higher pressure (warm air). Aluminum is one of the best heat dispersement materials on earth. Therefore when warm air hits the aluminum it is quickly dispersed and causes the air to cool and fall to the ground. That's a small area of low pressure (air falling). If you get a lot of aluminum structures together, you have a real tornado magnet as the warmer air on the outside of the funnel is rapidly cooled by the aluminum siding on the structure and feeds the inside of the funnel with the cooler air.

I hope all that makes sense. The long & short is, if you live in an aluminum structure or camp in one, That's not the place to be in a tornado.

Quote from: waveryThe aluminum roof, 4 side lifts (connecting the roof to the frame) and the frame itself should be an ideal "Faraday's cage,"

One thing I would like to point out, there are many PUs with plastic or "canvas" tops.  One question I have is I thought the Faraday's cage went from the high spot down, which could end up being just the lift arms of the trailer.  The "cone" goes out on an angle, so there would be a lot of the PU that isn't in the "cone" of protection.  Since the frame of the PU is under the trailer and people are above it, I don't think it would offer much protection.  Am I wrong?
 
I don't stay in the PU during an electrical storm.  A building with wiring and plumbing is much safer than being in the PU.  If there isn't a building accessible, we go to the car.

>>I am sure Kavoom knew what they were doing and had thought the situation through.<<

Hah! I wish...  We were in a pretty safe area trees but not really too big, and there were a lot of targets in the campground besides us.  

Don't mention Tornados.  Living in Kansas and running from an F-4 the size of a field in May 04 (this only being my most recent) was not fun...

Kavoom

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Post by: Camping Coxes on Jan 28, 2006, 12:45 AM

Quote from: waveryHave you ever wondered why so many trailer parks get hit by tornadoes?
 
If you get a lot of aluminum structures together, you have a real tornado magnet.

So when we on the west coast joke about the trailer parks in the midwest being tornado magnets, they really are tornado magnets???  Wow.  
 
I think in the interest of self-preservation, if there's a major storm involving lightening strikes, etc., it's time to bail out, take in a movie, whatever, and come back later for the trailer -- or what is left of it.

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Post by: tlhdoc on Jan 28, 2006, 07:47 AM

Quote from: Camping CoxesI think in the interest of self-preservation, if there's a major storm involving lightening strikes, etc., it's time to bail out, take in a movie, whatever, and come back later for the trailer -- or what is left of it.

I agree. :)

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Post by: wavery on Jan 28, 2006, 11:23 AM

Quote from: tlhdocOne thing I would like to point out, there are many PUs with plastic or "canvas" tops.  One question I have is I thought the Faraday's cage went from the high spot down, which could end up being just the lift arms of the trailer.  The "cone" goes out on an angle, so there would be a lot of the PU that isn't in the "cone" of protection.  Since the frame of the PU is under the trailer and people are above it, I don't think it would offer much protection.  Am I wrong?
 
I don't stay in the PU during an electrical storm.  A building with wiring and plumbing is much safer than being in the PU.  If there isn't a building accessible, we go to the car.

I agree whole heartedly!!..................If that is an option.

The problem is.......often times some of us are camped out in the boonies. These lightening storms can come up pretty quickly, especially in the mountains. In this case, the car is the best option by far.

I just wouldn't want people to think that PUs are especially dangerous in lightning. IMHO, they are a lot safer then out in the open or (God forbid) under a tree :yikes:  (Absolutely the worst place to be). I didn't mean to imply that the PU was a safe haven  :D .

Having been hundreds of miles out at sea in many storms, I have seen lightning hit the water 100 ft away from the boat about once a minute, with lightning strikes averaging every 3 seconds. Being the only thing within so many miles and having 2 masts sticking up in the air 65', one would think that we would have been struck for sure. I never was. I think, for the most part, that lightning is going to strike where it's going to strike and if you happen to be close enough, you're gonna get hurt (or worse). I for one, am not going to live in fear of lightning. I actually love watching lightning (from a distance :p )

Having said that, if it gets bad enough, I'm heading for the car :D .

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Post by: jstaddwtr on Jan 28, 2006, 02:37 PM

I realize that we are long past rain in this discussion but I just wanted to add....that rain has followed us evrywhere.  We ahve become experts in scurryig around in the rain trying to close up at the right time.....but we have no regrets.  

We have spent lots of time playing games and listening to the storm ooutside while we enjoy our family inside.  We ahve always stayed dry and cozy and grateful to have the PU.  

We don't post much but this is one where we could identify.  Can hardlly think of being without rain.   See Traci....it was our fault when it rained
at your outing when we met.  We forgot to tell you of our luck!

What we don't miss is all the times we tented and spent a good deal of the time waiting for a break in the weather to get everything dry again.

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Post by: tlhdoc on Jan 28, 2006, 05:59 PM

Quote from: jstaddwtrWe don't post much but this is one where we could identify. Can hardlly think of being without rain. See Traci....it was our fault when it rained
at your outing when we met. We forgot to tell you of our luck!

Ha don't blame yourself, we get rained on most of the time, even when you are not along on the trip.:)
 
How are you guys doing?  Any camping on the horizon?  COTOC has several trips planned this coming season.  If you can join us.  It doesn't matter what you are camping in.  Our first trip is only 20 days away.:)

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Post by: jstaddwtr on Jan 28, 2006, 07:40 PM

Quote from: tlhdocHa don't blame yourself, we get rained on most of the time, even when you are not along on the trip.:)
 
How are you guys doing?  Any camping on the horizon?  COTOC has several trips planned this coming season.  If you can join us.  It doesn't matter what you are camping in.  Our first trip is only 20 days away.:)

Thanks!

We still have our Utah..ready to be sold, but we keep making excuses for not parting!  Thanks for the invitation!!!!!   Stay dry!

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Post by: Kavoom on Jan 31, 2006, 07:32 PM

Oh, I forgot to tell you about the hail here.  You seldom find a vehicle "ungaraged" here over three years old without a few hail dings.  Some look like an insane person with a ball pean hammer got loose.  My first Suby got it and my new one just barely escaped this last summer.  

I come from Indiana and it doesn't suffer from a lack of tornado's or thunderstorms, but Kansas is something else and I don't live in the worst parts like south west and northern Oklahoma.  

Storms that you might have once every three years or so in Indiana are 3 times a year here.  But you seldom have to buy a roof.  Wait five years and the hail will buy you a new one with insurance...but then that goes up...  

I suggest checking the weather before clicking your heels together three times and hang on tight to Toto too.  But at least the ground stays still here.  I like that.  You can generally see a bad one coming here.  I've driven 10 miles to get away from known hail.  In CA you just get to sit there and take it when the ground moves...