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We have 2 kayaks that we'd like to occasionally take on camping trips with us.  I'd like to take them on top of the camper.  We do have the cartop kayak carriers that mount to the luggage rack of the vehicle.  I suppose we could continue to roof mount on the TV, but I'm looking to reduce our overall height profile.  My thought is to use our current rooftop carriers mounted to rails on the camper.  We've got a 10' camper and 13' and 14' boats.  Total weight of the boats is about 70 pounds.  It should work.

At any rate, does anyone here have any suggestions for rails that would be reasonable priced?  Yakima just seems to be quite expensive for what you get.

Have you done a search on eBay for what you need?  You need to be careful when installing a rack on the roof of your PU.  Could you make a rack out of PVC to hold the kayaks?  :confused:

Yakima, Thule, and Sportsrack make kayak carries to mount to their rack systems. I'll bet your current carriers would fit on one of the PU rack systems.
 
BUT, remember you roof has a maximum load rating. Either 300 or 350 pounds closed and 150 pounds raised and that includes ANYTHING attached to the roof. The rack, the kayaks, your awning, and an AC if so equipped.

Quote from: tlhdocHave you done a search on eBay for what you need?  You need to be careful when installing a rack on the roof of your PU.  Could you make a rack out of PVC to hold the kayaks?  :confused:

WOW!!!

That's a GREAT idea tlhdoc  :D

I have been wondering how I could carry kayaks on our PU as well.

Making a frame out of 2" PVC tubing would be cheap, easy and light weight. It wouldn't even have to attach to the top. It could simply encompass the top and have short legs that go down the side to keep it from siding off. Strap the kayaks to the rear bumper and trailer tongue and you're ready to roll. the entire carrier would only be about 30 pounds and you could easily take it off (if needed) before popping up the top.

Thanks for the idea :D

Quote from: waveryWOW!!!

That's a GREAT idea tlhdoc  :D

I have been wondering how I could carry kayaks on our PU as well.

Making a frame out of 2" PVC tubing would be cheap, easy and light weight. It wouldn't even have to attach to the top. It could simply encompass the top and have short legs that go down the side to keep it from siding off. Strap the kayaks to the rear bumper and trailer tongue and you're ready to roll. the entire carrier would only be about 30 pounds and you could easily take it off (if needed) before popping up the top.

Thanks for the idea :D

I'd want to be careful with PVC.  The stuff is pretty weak.  The weight of the boats would be sufficient to depress the PVC to the roof.  I'd be concerned that vibration from towing would damage the roof.  Feet, unless well cushioned, might do the same thing on a small spot on the roof.  I could make most anything with PVC that I wanted to (I do enough plumbing and drain lines with the stuff), but I think design would be critical.  Something rigged up coming up off the tongue in the front and the bumper in the back might work.  Maybe use 3/4" galvanized water pipe.    

Weight is not a problem.  I have nothing on the roof right now, no AC.  I would not pop up with the boats on the roof.

Quote from: waveryWOW!!!

That's a GREAT idea tlhdoc  :D

I have been wondering how I could carry kayaks on our PU as well.

Making a frame out of 2" PVC tubing would be cheap, easy and light weight. It wouldn't even have to attach to the top. It could simply encompass the top and have short legs that go down the side to keep it from siding off. Strap the kayaks to the rear bumper and trailer tongue and you're ready to roll. the entire carrier would only be about 30 pounds and you could easily take it off (if needed) before popping up the top.

Thanks for the idea :D

Wavery I will let you know how it goes but my hubby is already having the bug to build a PVC carrier for our Kayaks.  We have 2 sit on tops, one tandem and one sport fishing.  If you finish your mod  first how about some pics?!?! ;)

Quote from: PITPOP27Wavery I will let you know how it goes but my hubby is already having the bug to build a PVC carrier for our Kayaks.  We have 2 sit on tops, one tandem and one sport fishing.  If you finish your mod  first how about some pics?!?! ;)

We haven't even purchased the kayaks yet :p . One of my concerns was carrying them on top of the PU. The PVC carrier is brilliant.

The kayaks only weigh about 30# each. The strength of the 2" PVC is not a concern. I have built lounge chairs that carry my lard butt (225#). The kayak's weight is not an issue. However, padding it with 2" rubber insulation would be in order. At least in the areas where it would come in contact with the top.

Running supports all the way down to the bumper and trailer tongue may also be a consideration.

Pipe, be it PVC or metal, is not structural.  It would basically not have support.  It may work for very short spans, such as in a chair, if it's a large enough diameter, but long spans that would be needed to traverse a pop up roof would not support any weight.  Use of foam may help protect the roof, but I would suspect vibration and wind would ultimately work it loose, risking damage to the roof.  Even the possibility of that risk is unacceptable to me.

One possibility I've been considering is to buy the foam block rooftop carriers designed for kayaks and lash the things down directly to the roof.  These are for direct use on car roof tops and should present the least amount of risk to the roof.  At least if they're intended to be used directly on the painted surface of vehicles without damage, they should work on a pop up roof.  It might be nice to position them directly over the interior roof "rafters".  How do you locate them?  I still might be concerned for roof damage, but might be willing to try it on a short trip to see how it does.  I would think it would  be inexpensive, quick, clean, easily reversible and would put no holes in any part of the camper.  It may, in the end, be the best alternative.

Quote from: dthurkPipe, be it PVC or metal, is not structural.  It would basically not have support.  It may work for very short spans, such as in a chair, if it's a large enough diameter, but long spans that would be needed to traverse a pop up roof would not support any weight.  Use of foam may help protect the roof, but I would suspect vibration and wind would ultimately work it loose, risking damage to the roof.  Even the possibility of that risk is unacceptable to me.

One possibility I've been considering is to buy the foam block rooftop carriers designed for kayaks and lash the things down directly to the roof.  These are for direct use on car roof tops and should present the least amount of risk to the roof.  At least if they're intended to be used directly on the painted surface of vehicles without damage, they should work on a pop up roof.  It might be nice to position them directly over the interior roof "rafters".  How do you locate them?  I still might be concerned for roof damage, but might be willing to try it on a short trip to see how it does.  I would think it would  be inexpensive, quick, clean, easily reversible and would put no holes in any part of the camper.  It may, in the end, be the best alternative.

The foam that I was talking about is the round stuff , about 4" O.D. and 2" I.D. I'd slip the 2" PVC tube inside the foam and glue it in place. There is no way that stuff would come off. I used to use that stuff on the roll cage of my dune buggy. It lasted for years and was pretty chafe resistant.

As for the PVC.......If you are concerned about the weight of the kayak on it, a support could be run straight down from the center of each kayaks position on the a mount, bolted to the rear bumper and the trailer tongue.

You're right, that stuff has very little lateral strength and may even set up a bouncing rhythm that would break the PVC or damage the roof top and/or the kayaks if it were not supported properly. However, I still think that it would work well if the kayaks were set right over a vertical support. I would also use 2 short legs (with cushions) on each side, just touching the side of the top, to eliminate any side to side motion.

I just hate using metal (even galvanized) for that kind of stuff. I can't stand dealing with rust  :swear: (just a fetish I have) :screwy: . I had to deal with it for 14 years when I lived on my boat.

I would think salt water on the sea would encourage rust a lot quicker than we might experience from rain, dew, etc.  A good galvanized metal primer and some metal paint colored to coordinate with the camper might be a nice touch and help further to prevent rust.  If possible, I'd like to work out something that nothing is touching the roof.  Not sure if it's feasible.  The camper's covered right now.  I'll have to wait for warmer weather, grab a lawn chair, look at the thing for a while and mull ideas over in my head.  DW accuses me of sleeping when I do that, but sometimes I can come up with some interesting ideas that way.

We almost always carry our kayaks on the TV, as we'd end up loading them there if we had to drive to a put-in.

We use the foam blocks made for kayak carrying when we put our spare yaks on the PU for family to use when camping near water.  

We tie off each end then two straps side to side.

You do NOT want a kayak coming off at highway speeds. It's not healthy for the people behind you!

It sounds like saving up for racks for the big truck is in order.....AGH!  Why can't we just tow with the hubby truck....I know we can!  Always have to get salt water on his truck not mine hee hee!

We had the same question about putting our canoe on our popup.  In the past when we were tenting I had a pickup rack that utilized the toe hitch we got from Cabelas.  The fisrt time I rented a popup I tried using the same rack.  It had an accesory to use while towing a trailer all it was was a peice of metal that extended the rack to the side.  But every time I turned the frpntend of the popup moved the canoe after half a block I turned back it a fit of rage and took off the canoe with my wife pissed and me brain storming.  I got the old foam blocks I had long ago and put them on the gunnels and like a caffine maddend hercules I  lifted the damn thing up on top of the popup all by my self.  I have modified it somewhat since doing away with 4 out of the 8 ratchet tiedowns which was a bit overkill.  but I have used this method ever since.  IT's probaly not the best for my back and if you are not very careful you might damage the roof of the popup.  I have looked into the yakima rack system and other comperable things but they are just too damn expensive I think too.   Now that I got a 12 foot aluminum fishing boat I might have to beak down and buy a roof rack system but Im gonna fart around and think about what I can deam up as soon as the warm weather returns.
Mick

Quote from: doonoakI got the old foam blocks I had long ago and put them on the gunnels and like a caffine maddend hercules I  lifted the damn thing up on top of the popup all by my self.  I have modified it somewhat since doing away with 4 out of the 8 ratchet tiedowns which was a bit overkill.   Mick

Do you have any pictures?  It looks as if we are going to be towing our 3 kayaks on top of the pup on foam blocks.  I doubt we'll buy the soft rack from yakima, but we may.  My husband says he'd rather make it himself as it's just a ripoff.

We'll let you know how it goes, the kayaks weigh a total of 260 lbs.  I know we are bringing all three...

Quote from: PITPOP27We'll let you know how it goes, the kayaks weigh a total of 260 lbs.  I know we are bringing all three...

Wow.  Are you sure about the weights?  That's about 85 lbs. per boat.  We've got 2 inexpensive plastic recreational kayaks about 14' long.  Nothing fancy here, no exotic materials.  I can easily lift the weight of each boat myself, no caffeine needed.  The bulkiness makes them difficult to carry.  Total weight for the 2 is about 75 lbs.  

On a side note, it amazes me that a 40 lb. boat is capable of carrying 450 lbs. in the water.  The forces and effects of hydraulics is astounding.

:eyecrazy: Nope the weight was wrong - it was really late an my math wasnt so good!  It's 180!  they are 60lbs each.  They are fishing kayaks so a little heavier than the average but not that heavy! :p  Sorry, shouldn't really type that late in my very long day!

I would think your camper roof would be able to handle them, even if you have an air conditioner.  IIRC, I've commonly seen 300 lbs for a camper roof when it's down.  Don't forget to take them off before popping the top. though.  What kind of boats do you have?  They sound interesting.

Actually, I've had my eye on one of the Sea Eagle inflatables, one that can mount a small trolling motor and handle up to 3 people.  Seems like one of those would do really well for us on a camping trip.  The kayaks seem to be too much of an effort with size and weight.

Quote from: dthurkI would think your camper roof would be able to handle them, even if you have an air conditioner.  IIRC, I've commonly seen 300 lbs for a camper roof when it's down.  Don't forget to take them off before popping the top. though.  What kind of boats do you have?  They sound interesting.

Actually, I've had my eye on one of the Sea Eagle inflatables, one that can mount a small trolling motor and handle up to 3 people.  Seems like one of those would do really well for us on a camping trip.  The kayaks seem to be too much of an effort with size and weight.

We are thinking of inflatables also. Do you have any info on that one that you mentioned here?

We don't have an air conditioner. We have 2 sea kayaks, and 1 tandem.
1 is a Malibu Kayak's Extreme
1 is a Malibu Kayak's Pro 2 Tandem
1 is a Malibu Kayak's X Factor

The Extreme and the X Factor are fishing Kayaks, which carrying all sorts of options you can put on them i.e., a bait tank, trolling motor, pole holders etc etc.  They have pictures at Malibu Kayak with several men catching Marlin on their X Factor and Extreme's.  You can stand up on them , with a little practice with your balance - I can do it and I haven't been out that much, so catching large fish is possible, you can get drug around but you can catch some biguns!
They are ride-on-top Kayak's meant for recreation use, not river use for rapids. When we are using them we are in the back bay harbor area, when my husband is using them he is out in the ocean fishing or traveling  to the California Islands.

Search Engine Malibu Kayaks and you'll get their site.  We love ours.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/hellodarla/Kayak2.jpg)
The tandem with the dog

and our xFactor:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/hellodarla/kayak2.jpg)

We just recently got the Extreme so we don't have pictures yet:

Quote from: waveryWe are thinking of inflatables also. Do you have any info on that one that you mentioned here?

http://www.seaeagle.com/motormount/SE8.asp
 
I was looking at the Motor package, at the bottom of the page.  $600 doesn't seem too bad for boat and motor.  I don't think it includes a battery.  This is the middle size of 3 sizes.

Two Eskimos sitting in a  kayak were chilly, so they lit a fire in the craft. Unsurprisingly it sank,  proving once again that you can't have your kayak and heat it  too.

Quote from: dthurkhttp://www.seaeagle.com/motormount/SE8.asp
 
I was looking at the Motor package, at the bottom of the page.  $600 doesn't seem too bad for boat and motor.  I don't think it includes a battery.  This is the middle size of 3 sizes.

If there is one thing that I know a LOT about, it's inflatable dinghies. I lived on my yacht and commuted by dinghy for 14 years (all over the world). I've had all kinds of inflatable dinghies and I can give you some good advise.....don't take one of those toy inflatables any farther from shore than you can swim. I am serious about that. That SeaEagle inflatable is no more than a kids toy and I would not recommend it for ocean use. If you go see one in person, then look at a Zodiac, you will see why there is a huge price difference.

In fact, I'm glad that you posted that. It brings back memories of all of the reasons that I swore that I would never get another inflatable. I even had a $2000 Zodiac RIB (hard bottom inflatable). I still had problems with leaks.

I sure do like the looks of those Malibu Kayaks. I'm still struggling with where to store it though.

Ours are stored outside, my husband built a rack to hold them out of 2 x 4's and the eave of our roofline holds the rack in place, quite ingenious design, he's so handy.  :D Then we hung outdoor blinds over them to protect from sun fading.  Later I could post pictures if you can't picture what I'm saying, but I'm on the way out the door.

Quote from: PITPOP27Ours are stored outside, my husband built a rack to hold them out of 2 x 4's and the eave of our roofline holds the rack in place, quite ingenious design, he's so handy.  :D Then we hung outdoor blinds over them to protect from sun fading.  Later I could post pictures if you can't picture what I'm saying, but I'm on the way out the door.

That may not work well for me ;) . I live  (manage) in an apt building. I'm pushing it by parking my PU in the garage. I've already had tenants come and ask me if they could put an RV in the garage. I say, "Sure, if it's not unsightly and if you can get it in the 6'2" gate and it will fit in your parking space without interfering with others". That pretty well narrows it down to a new looking PU trailer and not much else. Leaving the kayak on top of the PU is an option but that sorta fits into the "Unsightly" category :( .

I have an entire 50' long wall of storage lockers in the garage (next to my PU parking space). Each locker is 6' x 3' x 3'. I could probably empty the first 3 and by taking out the dividing walls(making one 18' long locker) and put it in there.

Quote from: waveryIf there is one thing that I know a LOT about, it's inflatable dinghies. I lived on my yacht and commuted by dinghy for 14 years (all over the world). I've had all kinds of inflatable dinghies and I can give you some good advise.....don't take one of those toy inflatables any farther from shore than you can swim. I am serious about that. That SeaEagle inflatable is no more than a kids toy and I would not recommend it for ocean use. If you go see one in person, then look at a Zodiac, you will see why there is a huge price difference.

In fact, I'm glad that you posted that. It brings back memories of all of the reasons that I swore that I would never get another inflatable. I even had a $2000 Zodiac RIB (hard bottom inflatable). I still had problems with leaks.

I sure do like the looks of those Malibu Kayaks. I'm still struggling with where to store it though.

I'd certainly want to see one before I bought it.  I'd want to feel the weight of the inflatable tubes and the bottom.  I'd want to look at the construction.  They're listed in the Cabela's catalogue.  If I ever get to a store...

Look for the foam Kayak pads available in a kit with tie downs $30-50. The pads are soft and cradle the boat nicely.  I use them on the roof of my Pontiac Vibe. My boat is 17'6" and my car is 14'. I have driven hundreds of miles with the boats on top without any problems. I will use the pads on the coleman PU I am buying in the morning.

Srfnkth

Quote from: srfnkthLook for the foam Kayak pads available in a kit with tie downs $30-50. The pads are soft and cradle the boat nicely.  I use them on the roof of my Pontiac Vibe. My boat is 17'6" and my car is 14'. I have driven hundreds of miles with the boats on top without any problems. I will use the pads on the coleman PU I am buying in the morning.

Srfnkth

I am going to pick up my new kayak in the morning (it's only 12'9" long). I'm going to bring it home on top of my wife's Toyota Camry (I don't want to scratch up my car :p) . For now, I'm going to try to get away with packing blankets on the roof of the car. I have plenty of them so that i can adjust the spacing.

When I carry it on top of the PU, I may well consider the foam pads. I was thinking of building a rack out of PVC and mounting it on the rear bumper and trailer tongue, to keep the weight off of the PU top. However, after much reflection, I think that the foam pads may be the best way to go. The kayak only weighs 57 lbs. That's about 30 lbs or so on each end. I don't think that will be a problem.

Quote from: waveryI am going to pick up my new kayak in the morning (it's only 12'9" long). I'm going to bring it home on top of my wife's Toyota Camry (I don't want to scratch up my car :p) . For now, I'm going to try to get away with packing blankets on the roof of the car. I have plenty of them so that i can adjust the spacing.

When I carry it on top of the PU, I may well consider the foam pads. I was thinking of building a rack out of PVC and mounting it on the rear bumper and trailer tongue, to keep the weight off of the PU top. However, after much reflection, I think that the foam pads may be the best way to go. The kayak only weighs 57 lbs. That's about 30 lbs or so on each end. I don't think that will be a problem.

My foam pads have cut outs that fit around the factory rack bars on the car. Try and put your pads under the bulkheads inside your kayak if it has them. Those are the strongest points of your kayak and reduce the bowing effect if space is to far apart on a warm/sunny day. My wifes 2 person kayak is bad about heat flex...

Quote from: srfnkthMy foam pads have cut outs that fit around the factory rack bars on the car. Try and put your pads under the bulkheads inside your kayak if it has them. Those are the strongest points of your kayak and reduce the bowing effect if space is to far apart on a warm/sunny day. My wifes 2 person kayak is bad about heat flex...

Thanks. My kayak is a molded construction, plastic boat. However, I did find 4 closed cell foam blocks that I forgot I had. They should work perfectly for the job. We'll see in just a few hours :D .

If you do get bowing in a plastic boat, simply let it sit in the sun for a while.  It will return to it's original shape.

As I posted in this thread (//%22http://arveeclub.com/showthread.php?p=128078#post128078%22):
 

Quote from: griffsmomColeman, nee Fleetwood, offered Yakima cross bars as an accessory for their PUs. We had our dealer install ours on our PU roof, and then we use Mako saddles to carry our two Pro Scupper kayaks (each about 60 lbs.) By having the dealer install the cross bars, you don't void the warranty on the roof. You may still be able to get them through a dealer.
 
Here's a few pictures of our roof rack from different angles (sorry I don't have any pics with the kayaks on them though)::
 
http://community.webshots.com/photo/72197140/1072197789040023405kozifr
 
http://community.webshots.com/photo/73764576/1073767289046392905JJgzuJ
 
http://community.webshots.com/photo/73764576/1073767390046392905plCPLg

Quote from: waveryI am going to pick up my new kayak in the morning (it's only 12'9" long). I'm going to bring it home on top of my wife's Toyota Camry (I don't want to scratch up my car :p) . For now, I'm going to try to get away with packing blankets on the roof of the car. I have plenty of them so that i can adjust the spacing.

When I carry it on top of the PU, I may well consider the foam pads. I was thinking of building a rack out of PVC and mounting it on the rear bumper and trailer tongue, to keep the weight off of the PU top. However, after much reflection, I think that the foam pads may be the best way to go. The kayak only weighs 57 lbs. That's about 30 lbs or so on each end. I don't think that will be a problem.

Wayne which Kayak did you go with?  Husband has taken his fun noodle/PVC invention over to the pup to see how it works with the kayaks.  Will post pictures if all turns out well.

Quote from: dthurkWe have 2 kayaks that we'd like to occasionally take on camping trips with us.  I'd like to take them on top of the camper.  We do have the cartop kayak carriers that mount to the luggage rack of the vehicle.  I suppose we could continue to roof mount on the TV, but I'm looking to reduce our overall height profile.  My thought is to use our current rooftop carriers mounted to rails on the camper.  We've got a 10' camper and 13' and 14' boats.  Total weight of the boats is about 70 pounds.  It should work.

At any rate, does anyone here have any suggestions for rails that would be reasonable priced?  Yakima just seems to be quite expensive for what you get.

Hey dthurk - check out our semi-homeade bike/kayak carrier.  I used two bike carriers (purchased at overstock.com) and mounted them onto a homeade wooden kayak carrier and it is all placed on top of the pop up.  Here is our webshot page...

http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=viewAllPhotos&albumID=550355220&security=ffGYFZ

Like your wood carrier, husband says wouldn't work for us since we carry three and the weight of the wood would be adding....he tried what he did,. worked out fine but he didn't like the way it looked.  He felt over time it may really damage the pup if we should drop one while loading, so now he knows and is looking at the TV again.  He has 3 days until we need to camp again  :eyecrazy: He always waits until last minute drives me nutty :yikes:

Quote from: bbklavanHey dthurk - check out our semi-homeade bike/kayak carrier. I used two bike carriers (purchased at overstock.com) and mounted them onto a homeade wooden kayak carrier and it is all placed on top of the pop up. Here is our webshot page...
 
http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=viewAllPhotos&albumID=550355220&security=ffGYFZ

It looks really neat.  How much does it weigh?  I can't tell from the photos how it attaches to the roof.  Did you dig a channel out for the roof seam or does it just rest on it?

Quote from: dthurkIt looks really neat.  How much does it weigh?  I can't tell from the photos how it attaches to the roof.  Did you dig a channel out for the roof seam or does it just rest on it?

Thanks.

At most it weighs 50 lbs without the bikes, etc.  I attach it with ratchet straps which were not on at time of photos.

No didn't dig out a channel for roof seam.  There are no boards going long ways.  I will take another pic when there are no bikes and kayaks on it on and off the pop up, so you can see it at different angles, etc.