Well, we opened it up because we noticed the last owner left water in the tank :yikes: Greeeeeennnn yummies inside, so we'll be flushing the tank with the bleach solution recommended in the handbook, any extra tips you've come up with to:
1. Make the job easier
2. Make sure it's done properly
3. help with the non bleachieness of it (Lol I hate bleach! I've ruined so many clothes with it)
Thanks in advance!
Quote from: PITPOP27Well, we opened it up because we noticed the last owner left water in the tank :yikes: Greeeeeennnn yummies inside, so we'll be flushing the tank with the bleach solution recommended in the handbook, any extra tips you've come up with to:
1. Make the job easier
2. Make sure it's done properly
3. help with the non bleachieness of it (Lol I hate bleach! I've ruined so many clothes with it)
Thanks in advance!
Bleach is the way to go.
I'd put about a gallon of it in the tank, tow the trailer down a fairly rough road. I'd run my pump on hot water setting to get it through the hot water heater and all of the lines. I'd repeat the proceedure with fresh water, a couple of times to clear out the bleach.
The "Green yummies" will be gone. The left over bleach will dissipate.
Not a good idea to get it on your clothes but 1 gallon of bleach in 20 gallons of water is about the same as you put in your washing machine. Just wear white :D
I used to use this same procedure on my yacht, once a year. I had 3 - 100 gallon tanks and I was taking on water in all sorts of foreign countries. Actually, rain water was the worst. I used to put 3 OZ of bleach in every (100 gallon) tank full of water to keep the "Green Yummies" away.
Quote from: waveryI'd put about a gallon of it in the tank...1 gallon of bleach in 20 gallons of water...
This is about three times the bleach Fleetwood reccomends (1/4 cup per gallon) for normal sanitation. What you describe is not normal. I don't think it would do any harm to use the whole gallon, and if the tank were really gross, I'd be likely to do the same, but it's not according to the manufacturer's instructions.
I'd expect to have to run an extra flush using that concentrate.
Austin
Quote from: AustinBostonThis is about three times the bleach Fleetwood reccomends (1/4 cup per gallon) for normal sanitation. What you describe is not normal. I don't think it would do any harm to use the whole gallon, and if the tank were really gross, I'd be likely to do the same, but it's not according to the manufacturer's instructions.
I'd expect to have to run an extra flush using that concentrate.
Austin
I think that the manuf tends to be a bit conservative for liability reasons. A gallon of bleach in 20 gal of water really isn't that strong IMHO (which means little). Also, I would imagine that they were giving maintenance instruction ("for normal sanitation"). PITPOP27 is talking about having algae in the tank. I (personally) would like to make sure that the algae were gone.
Having said that, 1/4 cup may be enough to kill all of it. It really doesn't take much. an entire gallon may be a little overkill but I don't think that it will hurt anything (other than the "Green yummies) :D . I think that I would, at least, double the delusion for algae presence as compared to "normal sanitation".
Don't forget the white vinegar flush if you have any bleach aftertaste. Yea, I know......... How do you get rid of the vinegar aftertaste?
Believe it or not, it goes away with a simple flush with water.
Bleach is hard on plastics and rubber, so don't allow it to stand any longer than needed.
Quote from: chasd60Don't forget the white vinegar flush if you have any bleach aftertaste. Yea, I know......... How do you get rid of the vinegar aftertaste?
Believe it or not, it goes away with a simple flush with water.
Bleach is hard on plastics and rubber, so don't allow it to stand any longer than needed.
Bleach (More accurately "Chlorine") isn't too hard on plastic as is evidenced in the container that it is sold in. Chlorine is hard on rubber especially when combined with hot water. Cold water and bleach doesn't seem to be a problem unless it is very concentrated over long periods of time. Having said that, I don't believe that you will find any rubber in your system. Most pump parts, seals and hoses are made of neoprene. It doesn't effect neoprene.
Just to keep this in perspective, Chlorine (bleach) is what the Water Companies in most cities put in your drinking water for sanitation purposes. In Los Angeles, the chlorine is so strong that you can smell it in the water sometimes.
If you want to be concerned about something, be concerned about your skin and especially your lungs. Don't inhale that stuff as it comes out of the bottle. It is extremely caustic and can harm your lungs. Also, keep it far away from ammonia. Ammonia and bleach make a very deadly poison.
With the condition you have stated, green stuff growing in the tank, I would first drain the tank and as much of the water system as you can. Then mix 1/4 cup of bleach in with a gallon of water. Pour that into the tank, fill the tank and then pump the bleach water all trough your water system, water heater, hot and cold water lines, outside shower etc. Leave it soak for a few hours pump some water through the system to move as much of the dead stuff out of the lines, then drain the lines and do it all over again. I would also run a lot of water through the lines to move any gunk along after the second bleaching. There is a screen on the electric water pump that will need to be cleaned. Do several rinses with fresh water and you should be good to go. If you don't leave the bleach water in the lines for more than a few hours there shouldn't be much bleach taste left in them.:)
Quote from: AustinBostonThis is about three times the bleach Fleetwood reccomends (1/4 cup per gallon) for normal sanitation. What you describe is not normal. I don't think it would do any harm to use the whole gallon, and if the tank were really gross, I'd be likely to do the same, but it's not according to the manufacturer's instructions.
I'd expect to have to run an extra flush using that concentrate.
Austin
Austin,
I just re-read your post. Are you saying that the Fleetwood manual states, "
(1/4 cup per gallon)"?? If that's correct (I doubt that it is) that would mean 5 gallons of bleach in a 20 gallon tank. Could this have been a typo? Did you mean 1/4 cup of bleach in a gallon of water, poured in the tank (Like tlhdoc just posted)? Just curious.
Quote from: waveryAustin,
I just re-read your post. Are you saying that the Fleetwood manual states, "(1/4 cup per gallon)"?? If that's correct (I doubt that it is) that would mean 5 gallons of bleach in a 20 gallon tank. Could this have been a typo? Did you mean 1/4 cup of bleach in a gallon of water, poured in the tank (Like tlhdoc just posted)? Just curious.
20 1/4 cups would be 5 cups (a little more than a quart), not 5 gallons.
Quote from: waveryAustin,
I just re-read your post. Are you saying that the Fleetwood manual states, "(1/4 cup per gallon)"?? If that's correct (I doubt that it is) that would mean 5 gallons of bleach in a 20 gallon tank. Could this have been a typo? Did you mean 1/4 cup of bleach in a gallon of water, poured in the tank (Like tlhdoc just posted)? Just curious.
You mis-read his post. He said 1/4 cup not 1/4 gallon. A 20 gallon tank would use 5 cups not 5 gallons.
Quote from: dthurk20 1/4 cups would be 5 cups (a little more than a quart), not 5 gallons.
DUH!! :eyecrazy: Not sure what I was thinking about. :p
Quote from: waveryDUH!! :eyecrazy: Not sure what I was thinking about. :p
You gotta get that green stuff outa yo' pipe, man!
Quote from: waveryBleach (More accurately "Chlorine") isn't too hard on plastic as is evidenced in the container that it is sold in. Chlorine is hard on rubber especially when combined with hot water. Cold water and bleach doesn't seem to be a problem unless it is very concentrated over long periods of time. Having said that, I don't believe that you will find any rubber in your system. Most pump parts, seals and hoses are made of neoprene. It doesn't effect neoprene.
Just to keep this in perspective, Chlorine (bleach) is what the Water Companies in most cities put in your drinking water for sanitation purposes. In Los Angeles, the chlorine is so strong that you can smell it in the water sometimes.
If you want to be concerned about something, be concerned about your skin and especially your lungs. Don't inhale that stuff as it comes out of the bottle. It is extremely caustic and can harm your lungs. Also, keep it far away from ammonia. Ammonia and bleach make a very deadly poison.
Neoprene does not stand up well with "chlorine" but it does fair well with Chlorox which is a very dilluted solution of chlorine not to mention further dilluting by mixing with water.
Quote from: SpeakEasyYou gotta get that green stuff outa yo' pipe, man!
Ya!! I guess :p
Maybe I should try bleaching it. :D
Hi Pitpot,
I love this website!
Here is my perspective on "cleaning" fungal build-up. In the heathcare field, we are required to stick to standards developed by the CDC (Center for Disease Control) for taking care of everything from fungal issues to more serious problems like viral growths on surfaces (example: blood spatter that has traces of hepatitus).
The CDC standard for killing and disinfecting (the purpose of my posting) fungal build-up with a 5% sodium-hypoclorite solution (example: Clorox bleach) is 9 parts water to 1 part bleach or a 10% solution for a minimum of 10 minutes. The entire surface must remain within the solution for the entire 10 minutes. If the surface dries prematurely, the surface may look clean, but it may not be entirely disinfected. Rinsing the surface after the solution has been removed is also recommended.
The other issue with fungal growths is that they are also breeding grounds for bacterium and viral attacks. If your think your system may have a combination of one of these also, you are going to need a minimum time of 20 minutes to disinfect the surface with the same solution.
You can get hospital grade cleaning solutions which have disinfection times of 1 minute for everything up to viral infections that are very safe for drinking systems. In fact, we use many of them to clean our systems. Our systems have rubber gaskets, etc and we have not had problems with decay. The good thing about these disinfectants is the time factor to disinfect surfaces (1 minute verses 20 minutes), the bad thing is cost.
If you are interested in names of solutions other than bleach, please feel free to email me and I can send you links to look at.
Good Luck.
Jeff
WOWOWOWOW :yikes: :eyecrazy: FUNGAL OVERLOAD! Awesome answers! Yup I read the guidelines, but they do not have an amount of time, because they are for maintenance rather than the presence of fungus - so I take this information away:
1. 5 cups bleach to 20 gallons of water
2. Wait at least 20 minutes before flushing through both hot and cold running systems, shower, sink, outside shower.
3. I think a repeat would be in order (I mean it wasn't THAT much fungus but a little green is enough for me)
4. Rinse system with water.
5. Do vinegar rinse.
6. rinse
7, Rinse again.
And enjoy. Sound about right?
I wouldn't use that much bleach, but I agree with the rest. Using less bleach and letting it sit for an hour or two will work and you will not have to dispose of such a strong bleach solution. That is a lot of bleach water to get rid of, you don't want to just dump it on the ground. It will kill anything living in the ground. :)
I'd also reccomend after the bleach soultion is in, hitch up and take the PU for a 20 min spin around town. That'll slosh it around and get the whole tank bleached and possibly dislodge any algae stuck to the tank walls.
I manage a 40 unit apt building. When tenants move out we sometimes find mold on the shower tiles.
When there is no mold present, the procedure that the cleaning people use is to wash the tiles down with a household cleaner like 409 or tube & tile cleaner (we'll call that "Standard maintenance"). If there is ANY mold present. The entire bathroom gets washed down with a solution of 1 quart bleach to 1 gallon water. They leave it sit for 20 minutes then wash it down again with the same solution.
This is not my idea. This is the SOP of the professional cleaning crew and a requirement of the management company that I work for. They manage over 5000 apartments and are fully aware of the risks of the presence of the smallest amount of mold. They are also aware of the risks of working with bleach and are careful to follow the guidelines of the health dept.
I am talking about bathroom walls here. I would take my water tank much more seriously. Mold is not something to be taken lightly and as was described in a previous post by batsignal2, may offer a significant health risk.
Just as a side note:
In warmer climates (like SoCal) you are much better off to store your PU with the water tank full with a small amount of bleach added to the tank. Dump the tank then rinse it before filling for an outing. Leaving the tank with a small amount of water in the bottom is asking for mold invasion. Always replace the plug in the tank immediately after draining to avoid the invasion of mold spores.
after reading all the posts on this thread I just have to say ....
I knew there was a reason I never used the onboard water tank in either PU I've owned! :J
(said with tongue firmly in cheek and knowing full well that it doesn't matter how you camp ~ as long as you camp!! :D)[/FONT]
Quote from: waveryI manage a 40 unit apt building. When tenants move out we sometimes find mold on the shower tiles.
When there is no mold present, the procedure that the cleaning people use is to wash the tiles down with a household cleaner like 409 or tube & tile cleaner (we'll call that "Standard maintenance"). If there is ANY mold present. The entire bathroom gets washed down with a solution of 1 quart bleach to 1 gallon water. They leave it sit for 20 minutes then wash it down again with the same solution.
This is not my idea. This is the SOP of the professional cleaning crew and a requirement of the management company that I work for. They manage over 5000 apartments and are fully aware of the risks of the presence of the smallest amount of mold. They are also aware of the risks of working with bleach and are careful to follow the guidelines of the health dept.
I am talking about bathroom walls here. I would take my water tank much more seriously. Mold is not something to be taken lightly and as was described in a previous post by batsignal2, may offer a significant health risk.
We own a motel. The NYS Health Dept. has no requirement for cleaning and disinfecting motel rooms and bathrooms on room turnover between guests. I would think motel turnover would be looked at more carefully than apartment turnover. NYS and CA will have different standards, of course, and I have no experience with CA Health Dept. We do use disinfectants, obviously, but no standard exists here. The Health Dept. looks for mold and mildew during inspections quite rigorously. Don't know what would happen if they found any. That hasn't happened to us. However, the requirements for water service and food service are precise and intense.
A 20% concentration of bleach in water is VERY heavy. That will most definitely kill anything! Very small amounts of chlorine are all that's necessary to keep public water supplies safe. I've also killed off mildew with very small concentrations of bleach. I would suspect 20% is overkill (is that a pun?). It probably won't hurt anything, though, particularly in bathroom situations.
As far as camper water supply, I do disinfect our system, usually several times a season. We generally use the on board system for cleaning and applications that would use heated water. I don't depend on our disinfection to keep the family safe, although I would think it to be safe. We carry 2.5 gallon jugs of bottled water from the local grocery store for drinking and cold use and buy more as needed where we might be camping. It's worked for us so far.
Quote from: dthurkWe own a motel. The NYS Health Dept. has no requirement for cleaning and disinfecting motel rooms and bathrooms on room turnover between guests. I would think motel turnover would be looked at more carefully than apartment turnover. NYS and CA will have different standards, of course, and I have no experience with CA Health Dept. We do use disinfectants, obviously, but no standard exists here. The Health Dept. looks for mold and mildew during inspections quite rigorously. Don't know what would happen if they found any. That hasn't happened to us. However, the requirements for water service and food service are precise and intense.
A 20% concentration of bleach in water is VERY heavy. That will most definitely kill anything! Very small amounts of chlorine are all that's necessary to keep public water supplies safe. I've also killed off mildew with very small concentrations of bleach. I would suspect 20% is overkill (is that a pun?). It probably won't hurt anything, though, particularly in bathroom situations.
As far as camper water supply, I do disinfect our system, usually several times a season. We generally use the on board system for cleaning and applications that would use heated water. I don't depend on our disinfection to keep the family safe, although I would think it to be safe. We carry 2.5 gallon jugs of bottled water from the local grocery store for drinking and cold use and buy more as needed where we might be camping. It's worked for us so far.
This is a little off topic but.....
I think you got me wrong. There are no
HD requirements on cleaning and disinfecting apartments. The requirements are our own company policy. The reason being, that the penalty for mold intrusion is
quite severe. We spent $12,000 on professional mold removal from one apartment. It must be done by a Mold Removal Specialist. They treat the apartment like it has been contaminated with a viral agent. The tenant must be moved out. They build a full containment room and must wear special hazardous material suits with outside breathing apparatus. Like you saw when the old poison letters went through some of the post offices.
They remove all of the drywall and scrape all of the surfaces with wire brushes and grinders and 100% bleach until all signs of mold are gone. Then they have to spray it all down with a neutralizer (like vinegar) to keep the nails from corroding away. All debris had to be removed it hazardous waste containers and transported for incineration via a specially marked vehicle. The workers had to be sprayed down with a special chemical before leaving the containment area. Then a chemist had to come in and take lab samples (another $800). If the samples come back negative, the containment area must be kept up with special air purifying machines for 10 more days. If they come back positive, the entire process starts over.
With a motel/hotel, you are assured of a regular cleaning. With apartments, it's a lot different. I have had tenants live here for 10 years or more. The average tenant stays 40 months. In a motel/hotel, your average tenant stays 2 days. then the place gets a professional cleaning. Some apartment dwellers NEVER clean the tiles in the bathrooms and we don't find out that there is mold in there until they move out. It's usually not a big deal but it does have to be treated aggressively so that the next tenant is not effected.
You're right, I misunderstood you. I went back and read your post, and found this paragraph...
This is not my idea. This is the SOP of the professional cleaning crew and a requirement of the management company that I work for. They manage over 5000 apartments and are fully aware of the risks of the presence of the smallest amount of mold. They are also aware of the risks of working with bleach and are careful to follow the guidelines of the health dept....
It's the health dept. reference at the end of the paragraph that I focused in on. Sorry to have misunderstood you.
Quote from: PITPOP27WOWOWOWOW :yikes: :eyecrazy: FUNGAL OVERLOAD! Awesome answers! Yup I read the guidelines, but they do not have an amount of time, because they are for maintenance rather than the presence of fungus - so I take this information away:
1. 5 cups bleach to 20 gallons of water
Don't use any less than 5 cups.
Quote2. Wait at least 20 minutes before flushing through both hot and cold running systems, shower, sink, outside shower.
I agree with what others have said - drag it down a bumpy road, with a few modest starts, stops, and turns to slosh it around.
Quote3. I think a repeat would be in order (I mean it wasn't THAT much fungus but a little green is enough for me)
You might look at things after a rinse. If there is absolutely no trace visible from the outside it's probably fine. If you miss a bit of stuff stuck to the tank, it's dead anyway. OTOH, if there is still algae/mold/mildew residue, then go ahead and repeat the cleaning.
Quote4. Rinse system with water.
5. Do vinegar rinse.
6. rinse
7, Rinse again.
And enjoy. Sound about right?
Yep. Especially the enjoy. You might consider putting a bit of the sanitation mix in your supply hose as well.
Austin
Thanks guys, (have I mentioned how much bleach and me don't get along?) But we have to drain it slowly anyways, because of taking it through the systems, and then placing grey water tanks on sons skateboard down a VERY long driveway to the gutter :p it shall be great!
Quote from: PITPOP27Thanks guys, (have I mentioned how much bleach and me don't get along?) But we have to drain it slowly anyways, because of taking it through the systems, and then placing grey water tanks on sons skateboard down a VERY long driveway to the gutter :p it shall be great!
Why not just attach a long garden hose from the drain on the PU and run it down to the gutter? You could even connect a couple of hoses together, if need be. Then flush that thing until your heart's content. :D
DH though of that, but are you talking about from the side drains? We don't have one yet....hmmmm may be a purchase before tomorrow morning, have to go get vinegar anyway.
Quote from: PITPOP27DH though of that, but are you talking about from the side drains? We don't have one yet....hmmmm may be a purchase before tomorrow morning, have to go get vinegar anyway.
How does your sink drain to the outside?
Our Coleman has a fitting that a garden hose hooks to. We run a short piece of hose to our gray water tank, which we stick under the trailer.
Ar ( always feel like saying that back to you when you post heehee) That's what I mean! We have a drain on the side there on the left:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/hellodarla/PU.jpg) that drains the sink, one on the opposite side for the shower, and the tank underneath. Of course the most easy way would be fill her up and let the tank drain, but we've got to run the bleach through everything, thus it'll be coming out the grey water tanks my hubby has put together....if the pup was in the street, I'd just attach the fitting for hookups and let her go, but it's not our driveway or our grass at the end heehee!
You know....ARRRRRRR!!!!
I just thought of something that might work well and does not contain bleach. In fact, it's pretty harmless. Basically, it kills mold by super oxygenating it. Check it out:
http://www.ascleanedontv.com/oxiclean-tips.html
Quote from: waveryYou know....ARRRRRRR!!!!
I just thought of something that might work well and does not contain bleach. In fact, it's pretty harmless. Basically, it kills mold by super oxygenating it. Check it out:
http://www.ascleanedontv.com/oxiclean-tips.html
OxyClean would work for mold, mildew, and anerobic bacteria, but not for non-anerobic bacteria or most algae. Bleach kills everything. OTOH, oxyclean would probably physically remove (clean off) more than the bleach. One of the things I keep thinking is the stuff is probably stuck to the inside of the tank; soaking in bleach will kill it, but it isn't going to remove it. Oxyclean would do a better job of removing it.
Like most other cleaning products, Oxyclean should NEVER be mixed with chlorine bleach, as this can produce chlorine gas, an extremely toxic nerve agent.
Austin
BTW......
I added a ballcock, shut-off valve with a garden hose fitting to the drain on my water tank. It is really easy. Take the plug from your tank to any hardware store. Go to the PVC fitting section. Get yourself a PVC fitting that is the size of your plug on one end (male) and 3/4" pipe (female) on the other end. Just buy a 3/4" ballcock shut-off valve. I was fortunate that my tank's plug was 3/4" pipe, so I just needed a 3/4" ballcock shut-off valve that screwed directly into my tank. Also get a 3/4" PVC pipe cap (that keeps out road grime). The garden hose screws right on to the 3/4" shut-off valve.
I keep my PU in our apartment building garage, so I have to run a hose from the tank to the garage floor drain, every time that I empty my tank. I store my PU with a full tank of water, with about a shot glass full of bleach. I drain it before we tow the trailer, then fill up at the campgrounds. With that small amount of bleach, I don't even need to rinse the tank.
Thanks again, Arrrrr, I showed your fitting to my husband and he said he remembered me showing him before and that is what he was looking for but couldn't find the proper male fitting, it's driving him nuts, he really would like something simple to drain away from the place we store.....we'll see. We still haven't bought our hose, maybe one was thrown in in the deal, I need to see before I purchase one.....back to open up the pop again tomorrow :p
Quote from: PITPOP27Thanks again, Arrrrr, I showed your fitting to my husband and he said he remembered me showing him before and that is what he was looking for but couldn't find the proper male fitting, it's driving him nuts, he really would like something simple to drain away from the place we store.....we'll see. We still haven't bought our hose, maybe one was thrown in in the deal, I need to see before I purchase one.....back to open up the pop again tomorrow :p
If you find that they included a WHITE hose in the deal, don't use that for draining your tank. A WHITE hose is specially formulated for supply water. It gives you a clean taste (not hosey). If you use it for draining your tank you won't want to use it in the future for your water supply. It won't taste hosey, but it will be contaminated.
Thanks, I didn't mean for draining, but rather filling. And no there was no hose. I ended up getting a collapsable hose 40ft on reel for $20 at Target. Worked great and very compact.
The whole bleach process went well, except that we were doing it between rain showers, just glad it's raining this week and not next weekend!
Thanks guys, (have I mentioned how much bleach and me don't get along?) But we have to drain it slowly anyways, because of taking it through the systems, and then placing grey water tanks on sons skateboard down a VERY long driveway to the gutter it shall be great!
I don't thinnk I would dump bleach into the storm system. Carry it in and dump it in the sanitary system, (unless septic tank)