Hello,
Definately a newbie here. Just purchased a 2003 Coleman Utah, that needs a little TLC. First question I have is how to hook up the battery. I have an expedition with 7 wire plug connection, that mates with the trailor wiring. Turn lights etc work fine. However, in my purchase I received a battery that has not been hooked up. What I have, near the the battery location on the trailor is two red wires with lugs attached. One of them has a little box connected to it (small, 1.5 in long 1.2 in. wide) then both wires disappear into the trailer wiring loom. No ground wire spotted for the battery. Any guesses on how I hook it up? Can it be as easy as just hooking the two red wires to the positive side of the battery and installing a ground wire to the negative? Thanks, Rob
Welcome to Pop Up Times. There should be a small white plug in the area where the battery goes which is the hookup for the battery. You need a mating plug with the wiring and circuit breaker to hook to the battery and plug to the one on the camper. A Coleman dealer will have one if you didn't get one with the camper. The white wire is the - and the black wire is the + on the wires for the plug.
Thanks for the info on the plug. Just took a glance at the pu, looks like the plug has been cut off and the red wires I mentioned have been added instead. So it seems if I connect the wire that is connected to the black to the positive, and the other (connected to the white) I should be good. Is it possible that little block I described that is in line with one of the wires is a ckt brkr? thank
Whichever wire is for ground will be attached to the frame somewhere in its travels. The safest way to determine positive and negative is to use an ohm meter and check each wire to a bare spot on the frame. The one with continuity (no resistance) is the ground wire. Some converters are tolerant to reverse hookup and some are not.
Quote from: rccsWelcome to Pop Up Times. There should be a small white plug in the area where the battery goes which is the hookup for the battery. You need a mating plug with the wiring and circuit breaker to hook to the battery and plug to the one on the camper. A Coleman dealer will have one if you didn't get one with the camper. The white wire is the - and the black wire is the + on the wires for the plug.
I'm not doing this post from home and the camper, but are you sure that white is neg? I could swear that is pos on my camper...
Quote from: wynotI'm not doing this post from home and the camper, but are you sure that white is neg? I could swear that is pos on my camper...
White is neg from the factory. It sounds like the previous owner of this PU tampered with the wiring and anything could have been changed.
Quote from: waveryWhite is neg from the factory. It sounds like the previous owner of this PU tampered with the wiring and anything could have been changed.
I am the previous owner of the camper, I bought it new...with the battery connected and everything working correctly.
Now you all got me wondering...but I am almost positive that white is pos on my camper.
Quote from: wynotI am the previous owner of the camper, I bought it new...with the battery connected and everything working correctly.
Now you all got me wondering...but I am almost positive that white is pos on my camper.
When I said, "It sounds like the previous owner of
this PU tampered with the wiring", I was referring to the original poster, "Eorb". Are you saying that you are the original owner of his PU? :confused: I'm confused.
Quote from: wynotI'm not doing this post from home and the camper, but are you sure that white is neg? I could swear that is pos on my camper...
I'm with wavery on this one; white is negative.
Austin
Maybe this will help:
http://www.tekonsha.com/instructions/BC%20Wiring.pdf
However, I agree with chasd60, once you find that the wiring has been tampered with, tread carefully. Especially when you see that someone used the same color wiring for both + and - to the battery.
Quote from: EorbThanks for the info on the plug. Just took a glance at the pu, looks like the plug has been cut off and the red wires I mentioned have been added instead. So it seems if I connect the wire that is connected to the black to the positive, and the other (connected to the white) I should be good. Is it possible that little block I described that is in line with one of the wires is a ckt brkr? thank
That is correct. The little block is a circuit brkr. The standard Fleetwood/Coleman battery wires are a black wire +, and a white wire - , that have a plastic plug that connects to the plug on the camper. It is easy to unplug the battery (just unplug the connector), so that the propane detector doesn't drain it when you are not camping.
Quote from: wynotI'm not doing this post from home and the camper, but are you sure that white is neg? I could swear that is pos on my camper...
Kershner the black wire is the POS and the white is the NEG on the Coleman/Fleetwood trailers. Check your battery wires. The black wire has the circuit braker on it, Honest, I just went and looked at mine. You had me half convinced that I had it backward.:eyecrazy:
Thanks to all for the quick response, think I have it figured out now. Will ohm it out first to make sure, but I now feel comfortable with the wires. Last question, my assumption is that my TV (Expedition) will charge the battery through the trailer connection? I do have the 7 pin plug. And while I am on shore power, an inverter (converter?) will charge it? Thanks.
Quote from: EorbThanks to all for the quick response, think I have it figured out now. Will ohm it out first to make sure, but I now feel comfortable with the wires. Last question, my assumption is that my TV (Expedition) will charge the battery through the trailer connection? I do have the 7 pin plug. And while I am on shore power, an inverter (converter?) will charge it? Thanks.
Your TV will charge the battery somewhat, but not very well. You will need to check and see if your "hotline" is connected. Some Fords come with a relay in the glove box that needs to be installed, others have the relay already installed so the "hotline" is already hot. Your camper will also charge the battery, BUT a regular battery charger is much better at charging your batteries. A 3 stage "smart charger" is the best type of charger to get. Wal-Mart and Sam's Club both sell them. You can also get one on line.:)
tlhdoc is absolutely correct. I would just like to elaborate on the the "Converter".
Many people think that the converter (it is not an inverter) is designed to "Charge" the battery. That is a mis-perception. The converter is designed to take the load off of the camper battery. It takes the "shore power" (110v AC) and outputs about 12v - 12.2v DC. That is not sufficient voltage to charge the battery, merely to run the camper's 12v accessories and prevent discharge of the battery.
Quote from: waverytlhdoc is absolutely correct. I would just like to elaborate on the the "Converter".
Many people think that the converter (it is not an inverter) is designed to "Charge" the battery. That is a mis-perception. The converter is designed to take the load off of the camper battery. It takes the "shore power" (110v AC) and outputs about 12v - 12.2v DC. That is not sufficient voltage to charge the battery, merely to run the camper's 12v accessories and prevent discharge of the battery.
This was true at one time, but no more.
First, my converter has separate outputs for the battery and the pop-up. It puts out 12.7V on the pop-up side whenever there is shore power.
What happens on the battery side is a bit more complex. If it detects a load on the battery (or detects the battery is in a discharged or partly discharged state) it's output
to the battery goes to 14.4V (with a 20 amp current limit). Total converter output is limited to 25 amps.
After some period of time, (I think 4 hours), if it decides the battery still isn't charged, it will drop to 13.8 volts. There is another circumstance (charge level?) where it drops to 13.8 volts.
If, after 48 hours, it detects no battery use, it disconnects from the battery except to monitor for use. During that time, it will put 13.8V on the battery for ten minutes out of every 48 hours.
That's a lot more than "discharge preventor" and is probably more sophisticated than most "automatic" battery chargers out there.
This is the standard converter on some Fleetwood models (the ones that were "Elite" under the Coleman name) for at least three years. It wasn't standard on my model at the time, but it's what I got from a fleetwood dealer when my original converter gave up the ghost.
Austin
Our converter seems to work along the lines outlined by AB. When charging, the converter fan comes on. Apparently it's working pretty hard to charge that battery. Our converter is a 25 amp version. Maybe smaller converters work differenly.
We also have a 3 stage charger to charge independently. DW also charges independently, but that should be another thread.
I stand corrected :D . I should have stated that some (if not most) model converters do not have battery charging capabilities.
My 2002 Coleman puts out 12.2v max. It has no battery charging capacity. My brother has a TT that he bought (new) 2 years ago. I believe it is a 2004 model. It also has no battery charging capacity. Last year, we were at Doheny SP together. He asked me to check his batteries for him because he didn't know how to check the water. I checked the water and the voltage. The batteries were at 12.2V, exactly the voltage that the converter was putting out. In fact, it has the exact same converter that mine has, only it is a 30A and mine is a 20A.
I, personally, think that these converters are silly :eyecrazy: . I plan to re-wire my camper exactly the same way that my boat was wired. I am going to run the (00 size) battery cables from the battery to a 12v circuit breaker panel on the inside of the camper, then run the 110v through a separate circuit breaker panel. I will merely leave the battery charger inside the camper (plugged into the 110V) and leave it hooked up permanently to the battery cables.
This may not be the best solution for people that camp with hook-ups on a regular basis. However, I almost always dry camp. It seems silly, to me, to run the 12V battery current through the converter to run my lights, w/pump and 12v accessories. It seems far more efficient to run them straight off of the batteries (through a circuit breaker panel). All boats are wired that way. I don't understand why campers use these converters :confused: .
The voltage loss, going through that converter, is very annoying to me. I lived with 12V current on my yacht for 14 years and never experienced all this silliness of dimming lights when the water pump or furnace is running :mad: . I am also convinced that the converter uses up some of the current. It has to..... the mere fact that the wires run through it causes resistance which burns up watts for no reason IMHO.
Quote from: waveryI stand corrected :D . I should have stated that some (if not most) model converters do not have battery charging capabilities.
My 2002 Coleman puts out 12.2v max. It has no battery charging capacity. My brother has a TT that he bought (new) 2 years ago. I believe it is a 2004 model. It also has no battery charging capacity. Last year, we were at Doheny SP together. He asked me to check his batteries for him because he didn't know how to check the water. I checked the water and the voltage. The batteries were at 12.2V, exactly the voltage that the converter was putting out. In fact, it has the exact same converter that mine has, only it is a 30A and mine is a 20A.
I, personally, think that these converters are silly :eyecrazy: . I plan to re-wire my camper exactly the same way that my boat was wired. I am going to run the (00 size) battery cables from the battery to a 12v circuit breaker panel on the inside of the camper, then run the 110v through a separate circuit breaker panel. I will merely leave the battery charger inside the camper (plugged into the 110V) and leave it hooked up permanently to the battery cables.
This may not be the best solution for people that camp with hook-ups on a regular basis. However, I almost always dry camp. It seems silly, to me, to run the 12V battery current through the converter to run my lights, w/pump and 12v accessories. It seems far more efficient to run them straight off of the batteries (through a circuit breaker panel). All boats are wired that way. I don't understand why campers use these converters :confused: .
The voltage loss, going through that converter, is very annoying to me. I lived with 12V current on my yacht for 14 years and never experienced all this silliness of dimming lights when the water pump or furnace is running :mad: . I am also convinced that the converter uses up some of the current. It has to..... the mere fact that the wires run through it causes resistance which burns up watts for no reason IMHO.
I would think the converters are there for those of us who camp with shore power electric. It appears to be an easy way to power the 12v side of the camper and charge the battery at the same time while plugged in, unless I'm not really understanding your set up "a la" marine, which very well may be.
We haven't dry camped yet. DW is resistant. I'd like to try it. She doesn't believe she can live without the "amenities". I'd provide the amenities, only with 12v and propane instead of 110v. I don't think I've convinced her yet. Anyone use a 12v hair curler? Do they make one that uses propane? Wow! What a concept! Curl that hair in 3 seconds.
Quote from: dthurkI would think the converters are there for those of us who camp with shore power electric. It appears to be an easy way to power the 12v side of the camper and charge the battery at the same time while plugged in, unless I'm not really understanding your set up "a la" marine, which very well may be.
We haven't dry camped yet. DW is resistant. I'd like to try it. She doesn't believe she can live without the "amenities". I'd provide the amenities, only with 12v and propane instead of 110v. I don't think I've convinced her yet. Anyone use a 12v hair curler? Do they make one that uses propane? Wow! What a concept! Curl that hair in 3 seconds.
Actually, they do make gas hair curlers :D:
http://cgi.ebay.com/BNIP-CONAIR-CORDLESS-CURLING-IRON-BRUSH_W0QQitemZ9502942136QQcategoryZ116165QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemIt sounds to me like you need an inverter though. We have a 2500W inverter. We use it to run the microwave, blow dryer, hair curler and any other 110v appliance. We also have a small 400W inverter. That runs her hair curler just fine. You can pick them up for under $50 and they are 95% efficient. The bigger ones are only about 90% efficient.
Quote from: waveryActually, they do make gas hair curlers :D:
http://cgi.ebay.com/BNIP-CONAIR-CORDLESS-CURLING-IRON-BRUSH_W0QQitemZ9502942136QQcategoryZ116165QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
It sounds to me like you need an inverter though. We have a 2500W inverter. We use it to run the microwave, blow dryer, hair curler and any other 110v appliance. We also have a small 400W inverter. That runs her hair curler just fine. You can pick them up for under $50 and they are 95% efficient. The bigger ones are only about 90% efficient.
Too bad! Another money making idea stolen by someone else. 99 cents isn't bad, less than $10 with shipping. Wonder how they figured $8.10 shipping? I'll bet it would get expensive fast, though, if I started bidding. Might be a good item for a snipe.
I had considered buying an inverter. It's not really necessary at this point, as all our camping is with at least electric and we can plug in anything we want. Someday we'll be dry camping, though. I may gradually buy the needed items as we go.
Quote from: dthurkToo bad! Another money making idea stolen by someone else. 99 cents isn't bad, less than $10 with shipping. Wonder how they figured $8.10 shipping? I'll bet it would get expensive fast, though, if I started bidding. Might be a good item for a snipe.
I had considered buying an inverter. It's not really necessary at this point, as all our camping is with at least electric and we can plug in anything we want. Someday we'll be dry camping, though. I may gradually buy the needed items as we go.
Actually, the cost doesn't stop at the inverter. Anyone that may be thinking of getting an inverter should know that you really should have a minimum of 2 - 27 series deep cycle batteries.
Our microwave only draws 1000W but at 12v that's 80A. That's not a big deal in overall consumption because you only run the microwave for, maybe, 5 minutes. So your consumption is only 7A. The problem is, an 80A load on a single battery for 5 minutes is a lot. It won't be a problem in the short term but over the long haul, it would be far better to spread that type of amperage over 2 batteries and effectively cut the stress in half.
When we dry camp, which is 90% of the time, we don't do without at all. You would never even know that we weren't hooked up. The only thing is, if we stay out more than 2 days, we have to charge the batteries for about 8 hours. A normal weekend is no problem. However, on the 3rd day, we to get out the generator (another expense). Don't let anyone tell you that dry camping is cheaper. It just simply isn't, unless you are willing to do without certain things.....like electricity.
Quote from: waveryActually Don't let anyone tell you that dry camping is cheaper. It just simply isn't, unless you are willing to do without certain things.....like electricity.
We dry camp all the time, and with our 12 volt electricity. I don't take things like curling irons, microwaves, etc, camping, even when we have an electric hook up site. I think you are over stating it when you say dry camping isn't cheaper unless you do without. The only electrical item we don't use dry camping is the air conditioner. You apparently bring/need a lot of electrical stuff when you camp that we don't. We have camped 13 days on one group 31 battery without needing to have it recharged. We used lights(electric), the water pump (electric), fans (electric), etc. It is much cheaper at most campgrounds to have a no hookup site, or even cheaper if you camp in the wilderness where the camping is free.:)
Quote from: tlhdocI think you are over stating it when you say dry camping isn't cheaper unless you do without.
Of course, you're right. When I said, "Do without". I meant the items that I was talking about IE, microwave, hair blower etc.
Most people can camp perfectly comfortably without that stuff. So can we, we just prefer to use it because we can :D .
Quote from: waveryActually, the cost doesn't stop at the inverter. Anyone that may be thinking of getting an inverter should know that you really should have a minimum of 2 - 27 series deep cycle batteries.
Our microwave only draws 1000W but at 12v that's 80A. That's not a big deal in overall consumption because you only run the microwave for, maybe, 5 minutes. So your consumption is only 7A. The problem is, an 80A load on a single battery for 5 minutes is a lot. It won't be a problem in the short term but over the long haul, it would be far better to spread that type of amperage over 2 batteries and effectively cut the stress in half.
When we dry camp, which is 90% of the time, we don't do without at all. You would never even know that we weren't hooked up. The only thing is, if we stay out more than 2 days, we have to charge the batteries for about 8 hours. A normal weekend is no problem. However, on the 3rd day, we to get out the generator (another expense). Don't let anyone tell you that dry camping is cheaper. It just simply isn't, unless you are willing to do without certain things.....like electricity.
I would think dry camping specific equipment could be bought over time, at least spreading out the cost. For the microwave, if it's the biggest draw you've got, seems to me like it would be more effective to run the generator for 5 minutes to power the microwave and save the batteries. I'd probably just as soon leave the microwave home. We're already set up for outdoor cooking with propane and briquettes.
Quote from: tlhdocKershner the black wire is the POS and the white is the NEG on the Coleman/Fleetwood trailers. Check your battery wires. The black wire has the circuit braker on it, Honest, I just went and looked at mine. You had me half convinced that I had it backward.:eyecrazy:
Sorry Tracy...
I haven't YET looked at mine...
Quote from: waveryI stand corrected :D . I should have stated that some (if not most) model converters do not have battery charging capabilities.
My 2002 Coleman puts out 12.2v max. It has no battery charging capacity. My brother has a TT that he bought (new) 2 years ago. I believe it is a 2004 model. It also has no battery charging capacity. Last year, we were at Doheny SP together. He asked me to check his batteries for him because he didn't know how to check the water. I checked the water and the voltage. The batteries were at 12.2V, exactly the voltage that the converter was putting out. In fact, it has the exact same converter that mine has, only it is a 30A and mine is a 20A.
My Coleman's converter is putting out about 13.6 V when there are no 12 V (other than the detector) running. Put a light or two on, and the voltage drops to 12.9 or so, but still charging. Have the water pump kick on, and it drops below the 12.6.
If your converter is putting out only 12.2 V, you are effectively discharging the battery, as it seems like most of them I've checked have a standing voltage of 12.7-12.8 V (higher than a normal 12.6 fully charged voltage on an automotive starting battery).
Quote from: wynotSorry Tracy...
I haven't YET looked at mine...
Black is pos, white is neg just as was noted. I thought otherwise, when I had disconnected the battery a few days earlier.
Quote from: dthurkI would think dry camping specific equipment could be bought over time, at least spreading out the cost. For the microwave, if it's the biggest draw you've got, seems to me like it would be more effective to run the generator for 5 minutes to power the microwave and save the batteries. I'd probably just as soon leave the microwave home. We're already set up for outdoor cooking with propane and briquettes.
The microwave doesn't use up a lot of battery storage capacity. When we do use it, which is often, at least every morning before the end of "quiet time", it demands enough amperage for a short period of time to heat up one battery. That's the reason that I suggest having 2 batteries if you are going to start using an inverter and 110v appliances.
We camped this entire weekend without starting the generator once. We used the inverter quite a few times for different 110v appliances, including the microwave oven. In total, I would say that the microwave ran about 30 minutes which would be about 40A of battery capacity.
That's the beauty of the inverter. You don't have to go out and start the generator to operate 110v appliances for a short period of time. You can also use your 110v appliances during quiet time. If the batteries get low, I just run my generator with the battery charger all day (about 8 hrs usually does it) during daytime hours to charge the batteries and use whatever I want. Then I'm good to go for a couple more days without running the generator at all. My Honda EU2000I generator is very quiet and can hardly be noticed outside my campsite. When not in use, I just lock it in the trunk of my car.
Quote from: waveryMy Honda EU2000I generator ... When not in use, I just lock it in the trunk of my car.
I wonder what your insurance agent and/or state laws would say about that. Do you drain the gas tank (or run it dry)?
Austin
Quote from: AustinBostonI wonder what your insurance agent and/or state laws would say about that. Do you drain the gas tank (or run it dry)?
Austin
I don't think that there is any law against carrying a generator, with fuel in it, in your vehicle. However, for storage purposes, I run it out of fuel after every campout and I don't put fuel in it unless I'm going to use it. Then, I only put in about 1/2 gallon, for that very reason. If I'm going to run the A/C or leave the generator running for 8 hours, I'll fill it. I never store the generator with fuel in it because gas has a tendency to turn to varnish, after a while.
When I was talking about sticking it in the trunk of the car, was for security (peace of mind), not transportation. I transport the generator in the trailer when we are traveling. That's one of the nice things about having the inverter. I don't have to drag the generator out and start it if I want to run something 110v. In most cases, you will see people leave their generators laying around. If you have an inverter, that's not necessary. That was my point. :D