Title: Suggestions on Kayaks
Post by: wavery on May 09, 2006, 04:39 PM
Post by: wavery on May 09, 2006, 04:39 PM
I am shopping for a kayak. My wife thinks that she would like for us both to be in the same kayak so I am looking at kayaks built for 2. I am 6'4" 225lbs. My wife is 5'4" 100+ :p lbs.
This kayak is supposed to have a capacity of 650lbs. Does anyone have any input on this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Feelfree-Gemini-Tandem-2-Person-Sit-On-Top-Kayak-NEW_W0QQitemZ7240552494QQcategoryZ36122QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#Surf.
It looks like I can pick it up for $500-550. They have a depot about 30 minutes from me so I can pick it up for a mere $40 handling charge (no shipping cost).
Any comments would be appreciated. I've already ruled out inflatables.
You can even get training wheels for these things :p
http://cgi.ebay.com/kayak-stabilizers-easy-to-cart-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ7239153761QQcategoryZ36122QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
This kayak is supposed to have a capacity of 650lbs. Does anyone have any input on this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Feelfree-Gemini-Tandem-2-Person-Sit-On-Top-Kayak-NEW_W0QQitemZ7240552494QQcategoryZ36122QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#Surf.
It looks like I can pick it up for $500-550. They have a depot about 30 minutes from me so I can pick it up for a mere $40 handling charge (no shipping cost).
Any comments would be appreciated. I've already ruled out inflatables.
You can even get training wheels for these things :p
http://cgi.ebay.com/kayak-stabilizers-easy-to-cart-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ7239153761QQcategoryZ36122QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Post by: dthurk on May 09, 2006, 05:59 PM
Post by: dthurk on May 09, 2006, 05:59 PM
Well, it's a Sit-On-Top. We've got 2 boats, both that you sit in, with decks and all. One's a single, the other's a tandem. The single will hold 350 lbs, the tandem will go 450. I would think the sit-on-tops would be less stable. We've never had a problem with one of ours overturning...once we were in them. We don't have training wheels.
We used the boats once for a river camping expedition. Two days, one night. We had to boat all of our equipment. Every inch of space inside both kayaks was filled with equipment. Not sure you could do that with the sit-on-top. No, we didn't tow the popup. We did the tent thing. The frogs were obnoxious. They probably thought the same of us.
We used the boats once for a river camping expedition. Two days, one night. We had to boat all of our equipment. Every inch of space inside both kayaks was filled with equipment. Not sure you could do that with the sit-on-top. No, we didn't tow the popup. We did the tent thing. The frogs were obnoxious. They probably thought the same of us.
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Post by: wavery on May 09, 2006, 06:29 PM
Post by: wavery on May 09, 2006, 06:29 PM
Quote from: dthurkWell, it's a Sit-On-Top. We've got 2 boats, both that you sit in, with decks and all. One's a single, the other's a tandem. The single will hold 350 lbs, the tandem will go 450. I would think the sit-on-tops would be less stable. We've never had a problem with one of ours overturning...once we were in them. We don't have training wheels.Thanks for the input. We don't plan on making any expeditions with ours.
We used the boats once for a river camping expedition. Two days, one night. We had to boat all of our equipment. Every inch of space inside both kayaks was filled with equipment. Not sure you could do that with the sit-on-top. No, we didn't tow the popup. We did the tent thing. The frogs were obnoxious. They probably thought the same of us.
We beach camp 90% of the time. We thought that it would be fun to be able to drag the kayak down the the beach and put it in through the surf and go cruising around the cliffs & caves and interacting with the Dolphin that we always see out there.
How easy is it to mount one of these things from the water? I used to go diving from my inflatable dinghy. It wasn't easy getting back into that thing from the water :eyecrazy: . I just don't see how it could be done on one of these things, without swamping it. Maybe the "training wheels" would come in handy for that :D . I guess that you must have to bail it out after getting in :p .
The other thing that I was wondering is if it is worth while to get the "Optional" skeg. Also.....any recommendations on paddles?
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Post by: GeneF on May 09, 2006, 06:44 PM
Post by: GeneF on May 09, 2006, 06:44 PM
I have a real nice Winonhah Adirondack canoe that does not get used very often. Dw and I always seemed to want to go in different directions.
We now have two kayaks and we are both happier.
If you are planning on doing a lot of surf with a kayak, maybe you should talk to a few kayak shops in CA to see what they deem to be safe and appropriate for what you are planning to do.
A lot of shops here on the East Coast will let you try out a demo kayak.
Maybe you will need a sea kayak.
We now have two kayaks and we are both happier.
If you are planning on doing a lot of surf with a kayak, maybe you should talk to a few kayak shops in CA to see what they deem to be safe and appropriate for what you are planning to do.
A lot of shops here on the East Coast will let you try out a demo kayak.
Maybe you will need a sea kayak.
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Post by: dthurk on May 09, 2006, 09:00 PM
Post by: dthurk on May 09, 2006, 09:00 PM
Quote from: waveryThanks for the input. We don't plan on making any expeditions with ours.
We beach camp 90% of the time. We thought that it would be fun to be able to drag the kayak down the the beach and put it in through the surf and go cruising around the cliffs & caves and interacting with the Dolphin that we always see out there.
How easy is it to mount one of these things from the water? I used to go diving from my inflatable dinghy. It wasn't easy getting back into that thing from the water :eyecrazy: . I just don't see how it could be done on one of these things, without swamping it. Maybe the "training wheels" would come in handy for that :D . I guess that you must have to bail it out after getting in :p .
The other thing that I was wondering is if it is worth while to get the "Optional" skeg. Also.....any recommendations on paddles?
This style kayak should do well in surf. I've seen them rented in the Outer Banks area of NC as "sea kayaks" for running the surf. You can't swamp a sit-on-top kayak. It can be capsized, but not swamped. Many of them are also self draining. Even so, getting back in it while it's in the water is going to be difficult, if you can't touch bottom. There are some tricks, but it would be easier to have them demonstrated rather than try to describe it here. Find a good kayak shop and they should be able to help you there. The training wheels would help greatly. I would stay plenty far away from cliffs and caves if there's any kind of wave action. A wave could slam you against a rock wall before you knew it was going to happen. Waves in general aren't fun in one of these things. Anything 2' high is going to be head high when you're paddling, and higher than that will seem like "The Perfect Storm". Paddling through waves is a real workout.
We don't have a skeg on either of our boats. Haven't really been in a situation where we'd need one. I'd think a rudder would be more versatile. For recreational use, most any paddle will do. You can spend as much on 2 paddles as you say the boat costs, but I don't think you'd get that much out of them. Generally, the more expensive the paddle, the lighter it is. That would have advantage if you're spending hours on the water. The exotic paddle styles are designed for increased speed in the water. It doesn't sound like you're interested in racing. Most likely a basic, fairly inexpensive paddle will do you well. I think ours cost us $60 each, IIRC. Make sure it's the correct length for you and your wife. My wife, daughter and I each have our own paddle and they are all different lengths for each of us.
You might try here http://www.paddling.net/ for some good information.
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Post by: garym053 on May 09, 2006, 09:10 PM
Post by: garym053 on May 09, 2006, 09:10 PM
Tandem Kayaks are also known as "Divorce Boats" in some paddling clubs!!!
No matter what you end up getting, I would try a few models out BEFORE you buy! Go to a demo day or rent some, but try out both singles and Tandems.
Also, if you really get "into" paddling, you will outgrow your first boat quickly.
We now have Necky Zoar Sports, 14' long, long enough to paddle fast and straight, short enough for me to lift on to the roof of our Jeep. Paddled 13 miles on Sunday like it was a walk in the park!
No matter what you end up getting, I would try a few models out BEFORE you buy! Go to a demo day or rent some, but try out both singles and Tandems.
Also, if you really get "into" paddling, you will outgrow your first boat quickly.
We now have Necky Zoar Sports, 14' long, long enough to paddle fast and straight, short enough for me to lift on to the roof of our Jeep. Paddled 13 miles on Sunday like it was a walk in the park!
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Post by: wavery on May 09, 2006, 10:23 PM
Post by: wavery on May 09, 2006, 10:23 PM
I guess it's a mute point now. I just bought the kayak:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7240552494
Now.......I need to know about paddles. Nothing fancy but I don't want something that is junk either. What about these??
http://cgi.ebay.com/98-PADDLES-OARS-Inflatable-KAYAK-CANOE-BOAT-Paddle-Oar_W0QQitemZ7239382046QQcategoryZ36122QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I figured out where I am going to store it. I'll hang it from the ceiling in my office. My office is 15' long and has a boating theme anyway. This should be really novel. :D
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7240552494
Now.......I need to know about paddles. Nothing fancy but I don't want something that is junk either. What about these??
http://cgi.ebay.com/98-PADDLES-OARS-Inflatable-KAYAK-CANOE-BOAT-Paddle-Oar_W0QQitemZ7239382046QQcategoryZ36122QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I figured out where I am going to store it. I'll hang it from the ceiling in my office. My office is 15' long and has a boating theme anyway. This should be really novel. :D
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Post by: dthurk on May 10, 2006, 03:57 AM
Post by: dthurk on May 10, 2006, 03:57 AM
Quote from: waveryI guess it's a mute point now. I just bought the kayak:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7240552494
Now.......I need to know about paddles. Nothing fancy but I don't want something that is junk either. What about these??
http://cgi.ebay.com/98-PADDLES-OARS-Inflatable-KAYAK-CANOE-BOAT-Paddle-Oar_W0QQitemZ7239382046QQcategoryZ36122QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I figured out where I am going to store it. I'll hang it from the ceiling in my office. My office is 15' long and has a boating theme anyway. This should be really novel. :D
Congratulations on the new boat! Do you have a color choice?
I would think the paddle would work out fine. The price certainly is attractive. I prefer an asymetrical blade, and ours have variable feathering. A square blade may work out, although it may give you more "chatter" than the asymetrical blade, that wouldn't be any fun. You may want to find out if these paddles have a feathering option. It's nice to have the choice. We have paddled in windy conditions that I've been glad to have the feathering option.
I would be most concerned about length. This paddle should be fine for you, but may be too long for your wife. It's easier to use a paddle that's too short than too long. Too long means you'll either have to hold your hands and arms higher, or have the blade dig deeper into the water than necessary. Both options will tire you out faster. I don't see a length choice available on this paddle, that would be the greatest concern to me. Paddles are usually measured in centimeters. 96" would be about 240 cm. I would suspect your wife would be happiest with something about 200 cm.
You would also want to be concerned about the joint. An inexpensive joint might result in the two shaft halves to twist in their socket. That would become bothersome during a paddle. It may be smarter to look for a one piece paddle in this price range.
Post a photo of your office with the kayak hanging in it!
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Post by: Surfcal on May 10, 2006, 10:05 AM
Post by: Surfcal on May 10, 2006, 10:05 AM
Hello Wavery:
I'm sure this is stating the obvious, but don't forget the usual safety suspects. There are PFD's that are made specifically for paddling, wide holes for the arms for full flexibility. They come with weight ratings.
Even though it's Southern California, the water is still cool, so those neoprene shorts, shoes and gloves do come in handy. Pick up the right shirt too. As one veteran kayaker once told me, dress for when you go overboard and you'll be fine.
Just a friendly reminder for additional, but necessary expenses.
Surfcal
I'm sure this is stating the obvious, but don't forget the usual safety suspects. There are PFD's that are made specifically for paddling, wide holes for the arms for full flexibility. They come with weight ratings.
Even though it's Southern California, the water is still cool, so those neoprene shorts, shoes and gloves do come in handy. Pick up the right shirt too. As one veteran kayaker once told me, dress for when you go overboard and you'll be fine.
Just a friendly reminder for additional, but necessary expenses.
Surfcal
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Post by: wavery on May 10, 2006, 10:35 AM
Post by: wavery on May 10, 2006, 10:35 AM
Thanks, I appreciate all the advice that I can get at this stage.
They do have an 87" paddle available also. I'll figure out a way to keep it from twisting, even if I have to weld them together. I'll keep looking however, I like the feathering and asymmetrical suggestion.
We have wet suits and will decide on PFDs after we try it out for the first time. We are both very good swimmers and spend hours at a time snorkeling. I sailed around the world twice on a 45' sailboat. I never once put on a PFD. I also took my Zodiac inflatable from Oahu, HI to Molokai. About half way across the 35 mile channel, the wind kicked up and put up a 10-12 sea which slowed my 40mph sprint to 5mph. The seas were pushing me farther out to sea than I could make progress across channel and I didn't have a tremendous amount of fuel (although I had enough). About then, I discovered that I forgot to put in a PFD (pretty scary discovery). As I got in the lee of Molokai the seas died down, I was again able to get on course and speed up. So I appreciate how important PFDs are if you get too far off shore (out of swimming distance). I think that I may be able to handle the kayak but I was a little younger then :p .
I do intend to get PFDs. I just want to wait and see how adventuresome we may get and might even get enough (small ones) for a couple grandkids. Those things can get expensive and we may find that we don't even like to kayak (although I doubt it). I just HATE renting things. When I was sailing and we would get to a country that we planned on staying 3 months or more, I would buy a car and sell it (often at a profit) before we left. In my 14 years of sailing from country to country, I think that my automobile expense (including gas & maint) was a zero. I bought a car in Brisbane, Australia that we used for a year (and 15K miles) and sold it for $1,000 more than we paid for it. That paid for all our gas, registration and insurance. Not sure what all this has to do with kayaking :confused: . I just thought that it was a fun story :D . I'll shut up now. :p
They do have an 87" paddle available also. I'll figure out a way to keep it from twisting, even if I have to weld them together. I'll keep looking however, I like the feathering and asymmetrical suggestion.
We have wet suits and will decide on PFDs after we try it out for the first time. We are both very good swimmers and spend hours at a time snorkeling. I sailed around the world twice on a 45' sailboat. I never once put on a PFD. I also took my Zodiac inflatable from Oahu, HI to Molokai. About half way across the 35 mile channel, the wind kicked up and put up a 10-12 sea which slowed my 40mph sprint to 5mph. The seas were pushing me farther out to sea than I could make progress across channel and I didn't have a tremendous amount of fuel (although I had enough). About then, I discovered that I forgot to put in a PFD (pretty scary discovery). As I got in the lee of Molokai the seas died down, I was again able to get on course and speed up. So I appreciate how important PFDs are if you get too far off shore (out of swimming distance). I think that I may be able to handle the kayak but I was a little younger then :p .
I do intend to get PFDs. I just want to wait and see how adventuresome we may get and might even get enough (small ones) for a couple grandkids. Those things can get expensive and we may find that we don't even like to kayak (although I doubt it). I just HATE renting things. When I was sailing and we would get to a country that we planned on staying 3 months or more, I would buy a car and sell it (often at a profit) before we left. In my 14 years of sailing from country to country, I think that my automobile expense (including gas & maint) was a zero. I bought a car in Brisbane, Australia that we used for a year (and 15K miles) and sold it for $1,000 more than we paid for it. That paid for all our gas, registration and insurance. Not sure what all this has to do with kayaking :confused: . I just thought that it was a fun story :D . I'll shut up now. :p
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Post by: Surfcal on May 10, 2006, 10:44 AM
Post by: Surfcal on May 10, 2006, 10:44 AM
Hello Wayne:
You can also get a little fancied up with the boat and get good seats and nice cushions, but that's on the wish list when you really get into it. Dry bags are great for bringing along your knick knacks and food. I don't own a sit on top, but I wouldn't mind owning them. Although, I already have two sit in and some inflatables.
I love kayaking. It's one of the best things I've discovered as a hobby.
Surfcal
P.S. If you ever consider inflatables, Advanced Elements makes great ones.
You can also get a little fancied up with the boat and get good seats and nice cushions, but that's on the wish list when you really get into it. Dry bags are great for bringing along your knick knacks and food. I don't own a sit on top, but I wouldn't mind owning them. Although, I already have two sit in and some inflatables.
I love kayaking. It's one of the best things I've discovered as a hobby.
Surfcal
P.S. If you ever consider inflatables, Advanced Elements makes great ones.
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Post by: wavery on May 10, 2006, 01:21 PM
Post by: wavery on May 10, 2006, 01:21 PM
Quote from: SurfcalHello Wayne:Where were you a few days ago :p j/k
You can also get a little fancied up with the boat and get good seats and nice cushions, but that's on the wish list when you really get into it. Dry bags are great for bringing along your knick knacks and food. I don't own a sit on top, but I wouldn't mind owning them. Although, I already have two sit in and some inflatables.
I love kayaking. It's one of the best things I've discovered as a hobby.
Surfcal
P.S. If you ever consider inflatables, Advanced Elements makes great ones.
If we really get into it, I may consider the Advanced Elements kayaks. I have a lot of grandkids :D . I did look at them but with all the problems that I have had with inflatable dinghies, throughout the years, experience dictated that I go with a "Hard" boat. At least for now.
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Post by: Surfcal on May 10, 2006, 02:43 PM
Post by: Surfcal on May 10, 2006, 02:43 PM
And Wayne...
Figure on the great opportunities that just opened up. You can approach camping with a different point of view. You can now plan and camp near navigable rivers and lakes and get in the water as opposed to just looking at it. Just a couple of those foam carriers and good straps and you're good to go, kayaks right on the Coleman.
A trip I'd like to take is Mono Lake to see the tufa towers. That's not too far way from you too.
Have fun with kayaking. It's a great way to go.
Surfcal
Figure on the great opportunities that just opened up. You can approach camping with a different point of view. You can now plan and camp near navigable rivers and lakes and get in the water as opposed to just looking at it. Just a couple of those foam carriers and good straps and you're good to go, kayaks right on the Coleman.
A trip I'd like to take is Mono Lake to see the tufa towers. That's not too far way from you too.
Have fun with kayaking. It's a great way to go.
Surfcal
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Post by: wavery on May 10, 2006, 03:02 PM
Post by: wavery on May 10, 2006, 03:02 PM
Quote from: SurfcalAnd Wayne...PLEASE.....don't get me started :p . The last time I got started on something like this, I quit my job, bought a yacht and sailed around the world for 14 years. I can just see myself selling out again and taking off with my PU and kayak, never to be seen again :J ................(or maybe not :J ).
Figure on the great opportunities that just opened up. You can approach camping with a different point of view. You can now plan and camp near navigable rivers and lakes and get in the water as opposed to just looking at it. Just a couple of those foam carriers and good straps and you're good to go, kayaks right on the Coleman.
A trip I'd like to take is Mono Lake to see the tufa towers. That's not too far way from you too.
Have fun with kayaking. It's a great way to go.
Surfcal
I hope that my wife isn't reading this at work............She'll come home with a straight jacket ;) .
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Post by: griffsmom on May 10, 2006, 03:41 PM
Post by: griffsmom on May 10, 2006, 03:41 PM
Sorry I missed the earlier discussion...I suppose it's moot now, but we have two of these: http://www.oceankayak.com/kayaks/single_kayaks/scupper_pro_tw.html (//%22http://www.oceankayak.com/kayaks/single_kayaks/scupper_pro_tw.html%22)
The only difference between the kayak pictuted on the Web site and our kayaks is that ours has two hatches, not just one. We had our PU dealer install Yakima cross bars on our PU so we can carry ours on top when we go camping. We haven't been able to use them much since Griffin has been so young, and it would break his heart if we went kayaking without him. But he's 5 1/2 this summer and he could probably now sit between my legs as I paddle. I'm thinking next summer may just be the summer Mommy teaches her baby boy to surf. That way I can get back out in the line up too!
Congrats on the new toys, Wayne! :S
The only difference between the kayak pictuted on the Web site and our kayaks is that ours has two hatches, not just one. We had our PU dealer install Yakima cross bars on our PU so we can carry ours on top when we go camping. We haven't been able to use them much since Griffin has been so young, and it would break his heart if we went kayaking without him. But he's 5 1/2 this summer and he could probably now sit between my legs as I paddle. I'm thinking next summer may just be the summer Mommy teaches her baby boy to surf. That way I can get back out in the line up too!
Congrats on the new toys, Wayne! :S
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Post by: Surfcal on May 10, 2006, 05:04 PM
Post by: Surfcal on May 10, 2006, 05:04 PM
Quote from: griffsmomSorry I missed the earlier discussion...I suppose it's moot now, but we have two of these: http://www.oceankayak.com/kayaks/single_kayaks/scupper_pro_tw.htmlLori:
The only difference between the kayak pictuted on the Web site and our kayaks is that ours has two hatches, not just one.
:S
I think the perfect accessory for that kayak is a Starcraft Travelstar 23SBS. That boat will track better and you won't need a skeg at all.
Surfcal
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Post by: wavery on May 10, 2006, 06:02 PM
Post by: wavery on May 10, 2006, 06:02 PM
Quote from: griffsmomSorry I missed the earlier discussion...I suppose it's moot now, but we have two of these: http://www.oceankayak.com/kayaks/single_kayaks/scupper_pro_tw.htmlHow cool is that?? :D
The only difference between the kayak pictuted on the Web site and our kayaks is that ours has two hatches, not just one. We had our PU dealer install Yakima cross bars on our PU so we can carry ours on top when we go camping. We haven't been able to use them much since Griffin has been so young, and it would break his heart if we went kayaking without him. But he's 5 1/2 this summer and he could probably now sit between my legs as I paddle. I'm thinking next summer may just be the summer Mommy teaches her baby boy to surf. That way I can get back out in the line up too!
Congrats on the new toys, Wayne! :S
Have you surfed with yours? I was wondering how they would handle in the surf. I'd hate to flip it and have it come down on my head :yikes: .
I can't wait to try it out. Our next campout is May 26-29 at Pt Mugu. You can bet that we will bring it then. I don't think that I will surf in on it though. That beach is all rocks. I don't want to scratch up the bottom first time out.
BTW, this does have 2 hatches. One forward and one aft:
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Post by: griffsmom on May 10, 2006, 06:11 PM
Post by: griffsmom on May 10, 2006, 06:11 PM
Our hatches are quite a bit bigger. I think the Pro Scuppers were designed for scuba diving capabilities, as there is a space behind the seat back where you could put an oxygen tank...or a cooler full of ice-cold libations. ;)
Back in the day, I used to ride the surf quite a bit on my kayak, and sorry to break the bad news, but yes, it will flip you. Because these are sit-on-tops, your center of gravity tends to be high, making it fairly unstable as far as kayaks in the surf go. Also, there is no rudder, so your only means of steering is by using the paddle as a rudder. It works for a short distance, but then, inevitably, the wave pushes the kayak sideways and out you spill. It's no big deal, though. I've taken hundreds of spills and never been hurt. But then again, I've always surfed mine at Old Man's in San Onofre, where the break is very gradual. If you were at a steeper shorebreak style beach or there was a huge swell breaking, you probably could have more chance of being injured. Just be sensible and you'll be fine.
Back in the day, I used to ride the surf quite a bit on my kayak, and sorry to break the bad news, but yes, it will flip you. Because these are sit-on-tops, your center of gravity tends to be high, making it fairly unstable as far as kayaks in the surf go. Also, there is no rudder, so your only means of steering is by using the paddle as a rudder. It works for a short distance, but then, inevitably, the wave pushes the kayak sideways and out you spill. It's no big deal, though. I've taken hundreds of spills and never been hurt. But then again, I've always surfed mine at Old Man's in San Onofre, where the break is very gradual. If you were at a steeper shorebreak style beach or there was a huge swell breaking, you probably could have more chance of being injured. Just be sensible and you'll be fine.
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Post by: griffsmom on May 10, 2006, 06:33 PM
Post by: griffsmom on May 10, 2006, 06:33 PM
Quote from: SurfcalLori:That is a nice trailer, but it's too short inside for Dave, or perhaps, Dave is too tall for that trailer. Either way, it doesn't work well for us.
I think the perfect accessory for that kayak is a Starcraft Travelstar 23SBS. That boat will track better and you won't need a skeg at all.
Surfcal
We do like the Roos though, and they do have a tall enough interior height for Dave. If I can play my cards right, I may be able to get Dave to look at the model I like (23SS) this weekend. I hear Roo hybrids work almost as well as the Starcrafts at improving the tracking abilities of kayaks. ;)
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Post by: Surfcal on May 10, 2006, 11:01 PM
Post by: Surfcal on May 10, 2006, 11:01 PM
Wayne:
I just want you to know that I did some research for you and that sit-on-top is very compatible with a Coleman Tacoma, therefore, you should be able to track very well with what you already have.
You don't need anything else. Well, if you are burning to spend some money, put your money into a light paddle. Fiberglass is pretty good, however, cabon fiber is better. In the long run, your arms will appreciate it.
Surfcal
I just want you to know that I did some research for you and that sit-on-top is very compatible with a Coleman Tacoma, therefore, you should be able to track very well with what you already have.
You don't need anything else. Well, if you are burning to spend some money, put your money into a light paddle. Fiberglass is pretty good, however, cabon fiber is better. In the long run, your arms will appreciate it.
Surfcal
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Post by: wavery on May 10, 2006, 11:10 PM
Post by: wavery on May 10, 2006, 11:10 PM
Quote from: SurfcalWayne:WHEW!!.....I was concerned about that....I think :eyecrazy:
I just want you to know that I did some research for you and that sit-on-top is very compatible with a Coleman Tacoma, therefore, you should be able to track very well with what you already have.
You don't need anything else. Well, if you are burning to spend some money, put your money into a light paddle. Fiberglass is pretty good, however, cabon fiber is better. In the long run, your arms will appreciate it.
Surfcal
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Post by: PI on May 12, 2006, 10:51 AM
Post by: PI on May 12, 2006, 10:51 AM
Quote from: garym053Tandem Kayaks are also known as "Divorce Boats" in some paddling clubs!!!
No matter what you end up getting, I would try a few models out BEFORE you buy! Go to a demo day or rent some, but try out both singles and Tandems.
Also, if you really get "into" paddling, you will outgrow your first boat quickly.
We now have Necky Zoar Sports, 14' long, long enough to paddle fast and straight, short enough for me to lift on to the roof of our Jeep. Paddled 13 miles on Sunday like it was a walk in the park!
Gary - funny you should say that "Divorce Boats". My DH and I did just that. We had rented a tandem and I was ready to knock him in the drink as I am sure he was too!!!! :) You have to be in sync with paddling and leaning and we just weren't. I agree with trying them each one first.
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Post by: wavery on May 12, 2006, 11:17 AM
Post by: wavery on May 12, 2006, 11:17 AM
Quote from: PIGary - funny you should say that "Divorce Boats". My DH and I did just that. We had rented a tandem and I was ready to knock him in the drink as I am sure he was too!!!! :) You have to be in sync with paddling and leaning and we just weren't. I agree with trying them each one first.Well, when you get to be our age, that sort of thing is just expected :p . I'm sure that we will find it more humorous then annoying :D . We aren't in a hurry anyway.
The nice part is, we got this kayak cheap enough that we can sell it and buy 2- singles if that becomes an issue. I have a real fobia about renting stuff. I just hate it :mad: . At worst, we may take a $100 hit on selling this kayak if it doesn't work out.
The problem with renting is, you get a few hours for $100 and I just don't think that is enough time to fairly evaluate something like this. Like you say, it may take several hours for us just to learn how to paddle and get coordinated with each other. On top of that, if we go back several times to rent, chances are, we will get a different canoe each time. I just don't see the up-side in renting ;) (for me) it feels like flushing money down the toilet. Besides, I just don't like using other people's equipment. If I want to bend the paddle over my knee (out of frustration :eyecrazy: ), I want to know that it's MY paddle and not someone else's :D .
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Post by: dthurk on May 12, 2006, 12:14 PM
Post by: dthurk on May 12, 2006, 12:14 PM
Generally, with a tandem, the person in front sets the pace. The person in back would copy their stroke and speed. That should help keep your paddles from getting tangled up. Most likely, wavery, that would be you in back following your wife's lead. Normally the larger person sits in back. If you spend a couple minutes talking about it before your first "cruise", it may help ward off some headaches and help slow down some lawyer buying a Class A.
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Post by: wavery on May 12, 2006, 12:21 PM
Post by: wavery on May 12, 2006, 12:21 PM
Quote from: dthurkGenerally, with a tandem, the person in front sets the pace. The person in back would copy their stroke and speed. That should help keep your paddles from getting tangled up. Most likely, wavery, that would be you in back following your wife's lead. Normally the larger person sits in back. If you spend a couple minutes talking about it before your first "cruise", it may help ward off some headaches and help slow down some lawyer buying a Class A.
THANKS.........that's a great tip. Should be fun learning together. We work together well. We never get angry or upset with each other, so that's not a problem :D .
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Post by: wavery on May 12, 2006, 04:42 PM
Post by: wavery on May 12, 2006, 04:42 PM
Quote from: waveryTHANKS.........that's a great tip. Should be fun learning together. We work together well. We never get angry or upset with each other, so that's not a problem :D .I picked up the kayak today. It fits perfect on top of DW Camry :D .
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Post by: Azusateach on May 12, 2006, 10:59 PM
Post by: Azusateach on May 12, 2006, 10:59 PM
Quote from: waveryI sailed around the world twice on a 45' sailboat. I never once put on a PFD. I also took my Zodiac inflatable from Oahu, HI to Molokai. About half way across the 35 mile channel, the wind kicked up and put up a 10-12 sea which slowed my 40mph sprint to 5mph. The seas were pushing me farther out to sea than I could make progress across channel and I didn't have a tremendous amount of fuel (although I had enough). About then, I discovered that I forgot to put in a PFD (pretty scary discovery). As I got in the lee of Molokai the seas died down, I was again able to get on course and speed up.
Yo-ho-ho and a bottle of rum ... ! ;)
BTW, Wavery ... For those poor folks still using dial-up, trying to get on to this site becomes an exercise in frustration when they have to wait for picture to download. It's fun seeing pictures, but not if they take 20 min. to download. Maybe just a link would be ... nice. Just a thought! :)
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Post by: griffsdad on May 13, 2006, 10:59 AM
Post by: griffsdad on May 13, 2006, 10:59 AM
Quote from: AzusateachYo-ho-ho and a bottle of rum ... ! ;)
Glug glug :p
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Post by: wavery on May 13, 2006, 12:12 PM
Post by: wavery on May 13, 2006, 12:12 PM
Quote from: AzusateachYo-ho-ho and a bottle of rum ... ! ;)WOW!! Thanks for the tip. I never even thought of that :(
BTW, Wavery ... For those poor folks still using dial-up, trying to get on to this site becomes an exercise in frustration when they have to wait for picture to download. It's fun seeing pictures, but not if they take 20 min. to download. Maybe just a link would be ... nice. Just a thought! :)
Sorry to all you people on dial-up. I won't do that any more. My brother has dial-up (no broadband available in Fallbrook, CA :confused: ) I hate it when I get on his computer and have to wait.....and wait......and wait for pictures to download. I'll cool it :D .
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Post by: Surfcal on May 23, 2006, 09:23 AM
Post by: Surfcal on May 23, 2006, 09:23 AM
Wayne,
I saw in another thread you broke your paddle. What happened?
Ray
I saw in another thread you broke your paddle. What happened?
Ray
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Post by: wavery on May 23, 2006, 09:50 AM
Post by: wavery on May 23, 2006, 09:50 AM
Quote from: SurfcalWayne,
I saw in another thread you broke your paddle. What happened?
Ray
We....we ......(Sniff...sniff) were coming in, in the surf......and...and a big shark came up and bit it :yikes: .
Naaaaa I hit the bottom with the end of the paddle when we were coming in, in the surf. That cheap, crummy plastic joiner, that holds the 2 halves of the paddle together, broke. Now my paddles are 1 piece :D .
While we are back on the subject......what offset do you use on your paddle blades? I'm starting to understand how that works (thanks to PITPOP27 ;) ). I'd just like to hear a little more about it :) .
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Post by: Surfcal on May 23, 2006, 12:27 PM
Post by: Surfcal on May 23, 2006, 12:27 PM
I have three paddles of varying levels (read price). My favorite of course is the carbon fiber shaft, the lighter the better. It comes in two pieces. I offset it so that when one paddle is in the water, the other blade is not flat against the wind, but more like the way the wings of a plane cuts into the wind.
When you dip into the water, you have either one of your hands as the strong grip, it's the one hand that does the twisting while the other hand is the loose side. Depending on how you twist or which side is your strong grip, a two part paddle will give you three options depending on which setting fits you best. I also use neoprene gloves. It lessens the wear on my soft hands, in case I need it for on-camera modeling, and it keeps my hands warm.
And when you paddle, don't just rely on the arms, twist your body with the stroke. If you envision the center of the paddle being in line with the center of your lifejacket as you paddle, you're in good shape. You will tire less, your strokes will be stronger and efficient. And stroke from the tip of your toes to just past your hips. Beyond that is worthless.
Some other paddles come with curvy shafts. From what little I know, those are meant for racing and I'm not one of those.
When you dip into the water, you have either one of your hands as the strong grip, it's the one hand that does the twisting while the other hand is the loose side. Depending on how you twist or which side is your strong grip, a two part paddle will give you three options depending on which setting fits you best. I also use neoprene gloves. It lessens the wear on my soft hands, in case I need it for on-camera modeling, and it keeps my hands warm.
And when you paddle, don't just rely on the arms, twist your body with the stroke. If you envision the center of the paddle being in line with the center of your lifejacket as you paddle, you're in good shape. You will tire less, your strokes will be stronger and efficient. And stroke from the tip of your toes to just past your hips. Beyond that is worthless.
Some other paddles come with curvy shafts. From what little I know, those are meant for racing and I'm not one of those.
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Post by: wavery on May 23, 2006, 12:36 PM
Post by: wavery on May 23, 2006, 12:36 PM
Quote from: SurfcalI have three paddles of varying levels (read price). My favorite of course is the carbon fiber shaft, the lighter the better. It comes in two pieces. I offset it so that when one paddle is in the water, the other blade is not flat against the wind, but more like the way the wings of a plane cuts into the wind.
When you dip into the water, you have either one of your hands as the strong grip, it's the one hand that does the twisting while the other hand is the loose side. Depending on how you twist or which side is your strong grip, a two part paddle will give you three options depending on which setting fits you best. I also use neoprene gloves. It lessens the wear on my soft hands, in case I need it for on-camera modeling, and it keeps my hands warm.
And when you paddle, don't just rely on the arms, twist your body with the stroke. If you envision the center of the paddle being in line with the center of your lifejacket as you paddle, you're in good shape. You will tire less, your strokes will be stronger and efficient. And stroke from the tip of your toes to just past your hips. Beyond that is worthless.
Some other paddles come with curvy shafts. From what little I know, those are meant for racing and I'm not one of those.
Thanks for the tips................maybe someday I will understand, "stroke from the tip of your toes to just past your hips. Beyond that is worthless." :confused:
For right now, I'm really happy that we were able to make the thing go through the water by paddling with my arms (Toes & hips are somewhere down the road :p ). I was impressed at how fast the thing moved with, seemingly, little effort. I can't wait to go trolling with it. We just have to work on our technique and build our endurance. It's a long way to Catalina :p .
Oh ya...I have to work on that, "stroke from the tip of your toes to just past your hips" thing too.
How do the shafts connect together on your 2 piece paddles?
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Post by: dthurk on May 23, 2006, 12:53 PM
Post by: dthurk on May 23, 2006, 12:53 PM
Quote from: waveryThanks for the tips................maybe someday I will understand, "stroke from the tip of your toes to just past your hips. Beyond that is worthless." :confused:It means, when you place the tip of your paddle in the water, don't reach any further than the tips of your toes are in the boat. Then pull the paddle out of the water just as it reaches the area of your hips as you are seated. It controls the length of the stroke in the water. That, combined with the twisting of your torso make for a powerful stroke that is least tiring.
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Post by: wavery on May 23, 2006, 01:18 PM
Post by: wavery on May 23, 2006, 01:18 PM
Quote from: dthurkIt means, when you place the tip of your paddle in the water, don't reach any further than the tips of your toes are in the boat. Then pull the paddle out of the water just as it reaches the area of your hips as you are seated. It controls the length of the stroke in the water. That, combined with the twisting of your torso make for a powerful stroke that is least tiring.
Got-it.....thanks for clearing that up :book: .
I have been sitting on the living-room floor for the last half hour trying to figure out how to hold the paddles with my feet and not let them go past my hips.........heck, I couldn't even get close to my hips. I had to tape the paddles to my feet and kept polling back on my head. :J I was beginning to get discouraged, thinking, "Man this kayaking is tougher than I thought" :eyecrazy:
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Post by: dthurk on May 23, 2006, 01:41 PM
Post by: dthurk on May 23, 2006, 01:41 PM
Quote from: waveryGot-it.....thanks for clearing that up :book: .
I have been sitting on the living-room floor for the last half hour trying to figure out how to hold the paddles with my feet and not let them go past my hips.........heck, I couldn't even get close to my hips. I had to tape the paddles to my feet and kept polling back on my head. :J I was beginning to get discouraged, thinking, "Man this kayaking is tougher than I thought" :eyecrazy:
LOL!
Sometimes we try to make things more complicated than they should be. In the end, if the boat's moving the direction you intend to go, you're probably doing something right.
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Post by: wavery on May 23, 2006, 02:51 PM
Post by: wavery on May 23, 2006, 02:51 PM
Quote from: dthurkLOL!That's the same thing that I found out about sailing.
Sometimes we try to make things more complicated than they should be. In the end, if the boat's moving the direction you intend to go, you're probably doing something right.
Back in '83 I went sailing with a friend. Once I figured out that I could make the boat move, I got so excited that I was sailing around the world, with my own boat 12 months later (I didn't return to the US until '98). I hadn't even sailed beyond Catalina Island (and I only did that once)....next stop was Hawaii :yikes: .....and that's the truth! :D
I'm already trying to figure out how to strap a sail to this kayak....I'll bet that I make a trip to Catalina with this thing by the end of the summer.
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Post by: Surfcal on May 23, 2006, 04:46 PM
Post by: Surfcal on May 23, 2006, 04:46 PM
Wayne:
The good news is, they do make sail rigs for kayaks along with outriggers. I bet that you "do" make it to Catalina by summer. From what I understand, it's an easy mod.
I'm interested in your progress.
BTW: That paddling with your feet bit is funny. LOL.
The good news is, they do make sail rigs for kayaks along with outriggers. I bet that you "do" make it to Catalina by summer. From what I understand, it's an easy mod.
I'm interested in your progress.
BTW: That paddling with your feet bit is funny. LOL.
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Post by: sandykayak on May 23, 2006, 05:59 PM
Post by: sandykayak on May 23, 2006, 05:59 PM
well, I'm late on this one as well...but that's not going to stop me from opining ;)
Did you buy the aluminum shaft paddles with a flat (ie like two canoe paddles joined together)? IMO, they are real dogs..especially since you tend to flip it higher to dig the blade into the water. My favorites are Swift paddles - I especially like the Mid-Swift. Really lightweight... costly but worth their weight in comfort.
I got two other 4-piece paddles (trying to save money) for my folding kayak (Puffin //www.pakboats.com) before finally getting my 3rd swift (I have my first fiberglass one, then the carbon fiber, and now the 4-piece 'glass one) for Xmas. I don't think there's much difference weight-wise in the 'glass or carbon fiber paddles. Paddling with a heavy paddle is hell.
Was amazed that you were planning to go out in the surf without a PFD (and I do realize you are an experienced boater). In FL the law says you must have one on board (as well as a whistle)...you don't have to wear it, but if you flip and your boat hits you on the head....well, it DOES make it easier to find the body.
Some tandem SOTs (sit-on-tops) are easier to paddle solo because they have a third seat in the middle. I recently (6 months ago?) got the Pelican Apex II at Sports Authority dirt cheap. Its MSRP is about $500 and I've seen it priced at $450 on the 'net. SA had it for $299 with a $50 discount - so I paid $250 for it. I saw that last week they had the same offer. The epinions are that it's a good starter boat. I bought it mostly to lend to friends (I live on a lake).
Came with the ##$%%%@@@ back-bands and the one time I tried it I found seating very uncomfortable, so I bought two seats ($50 each).
Wet re-entry is much easier in a SOT.... the trick with kayak re-entry is to float on your tummy (many people use paddle floats - slip paddle in the float and under your bungees and then use it as a lever for your legs) and get your legs up to the surface and perpendicular to the boat - so you form a T. (It's much harder to try and pull yourself up if your feet are straight down). Then you sort of belly up onto your boat and turn over.
Paddling tandem is not easy...having a rudder helps...ditto with the sail rigs...
Did you buy the aluminum shaft paddles with a flat (ie like two canoe paddles joined together)? IMO, they are real dogs..especially since you tend to flip it higher to dig the blade into the water. My favorites are Swift paddles - I especially like the Mid-Swift. Really lightweight... costly but worth their weight in comfort.
I got two other 4-piece paddles (trying to save money) for my folding kayak (Puffin //www.pakboats.com) before finally getting my 3rd swift (I have my first fiberglass one, then the carbon fiber, and now the 4-piece 'glass one) for Xmas. I don't think there's much difference weight-wise in the 'glass or carbon fiber paddles. Paddling with a heavy paddle is hell.
Was amazed that you were planning to go out in the surf without a PFD (and I do realize you are an experienced boater). In FL the law says you must have one on board (as well as a whistle)...you don't have to wear it, but if you flip and your boat hits you on the head....well, it DOES make it easier to find the body.
Some tandem SOTs (sit-on-tops) are easier to paddle solo because they have a third seat in the middle. I recently (6 months ago?) got the Pelican Apex II at Sports Authority dirt cheap. Its MSRP is about $500 and I've seen it priced at $450 on the 'net. SA had it for $299 with a $50 discount - so I paid $250 for it. I saw that last week they had the same offer. The epinions are that it's a good starter boat. I bought it mostly to lend to friends (I live on a lake).
Came with the ##$%%%@@@ back-bands and the one time I tried it I found seating very uncomfortable, so I bought two seats ($50 each).
Wet re-entry is much easier in a SOT.... the trick with kayak re-entry is to float on your tummy (many people use paddle floats - slip paddle in the float and under your bungees and then use it as a lever for your legs) and get your legs up to the surface and perpendicular to the boat - so you form a T. (It's much harder to try and pull yourself up if your feet are straight down). Then you sort of belly up onto your boat and turn over.
Paddling tandem is not easy...having a rudder helps...ditto with the sail rigs...
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Post by: dthurk on May 23, 2006, 07:39 PM
Post by: dthurk on May 23, 2006, 07:39 PM
Quote from: waveryThat's the same thing that I found out about sailing.
Back in '83 I went sailing with a friend. Once I figured out that I could make the boat move, I got so excited that I was sailing around the world, with my own boat 12 months later (I didn't return to the US until '98). I hadn't even sailed beyond Catalina Island (and I only did that once)....next stop was Hawaii :yikes: .....and that's the truth! :D
I'm already trying to figure out how to strap a sail to this kayak....I'll bet that I make a trip to Catalina with this thing by the end of the summer.
Get a large golfing umbrella and open it up. It works, at least in lower wind conditions. Be really careful in open water treks. An open water trek is anything where you are further from land than you can swim. Before you go, make sure you have a PFD (and you're wearing it!) and make sure you know how to get back in your kayak if somehow you were to go over. Bad things can happen very fast in a kayak, and your swimming ability is not a factor to safety.
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Post by: PLJ on Jun 06, 2006, 12:25 PM
Post by: PLJ on Jun 06, 2006, 12:25 PM
thanks for the helpful replies. Lots to think on. I guess I need to get to the stores and get my hands on them.
I'd be ok with my 11 year old in a kayak. She is very sporty and very well coordinated. Naturally she would always be wearing a PFD. We could always put a tow rope on her.
I'd be ok with my 11 year old in a kayak. She is very sporty and very well coordinated. Naturally she would always be wearing a PFD. We could always put a tow rope on her.