I read in the Honda Odyssey owners manual that they don't want you going over 55 mph when towing anything. I was wondering because I did go with my 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager between 65mph and 75mpg on the highways. The RPM's were around 3.5 on the dial at 75mpg. What is the optimal speed that has no impact on trans and engine?
I guess I am also asking how fast do people go and how fast should they go?
Quote from: edwardr132I guess I am also asking how fast do people go and how fast should they go?
Obviously, the faster the TV roars down the road, the more the miles per gallon drops and in this day & time of high gas prices, a real big consideration. My TV is a full size GMC pick'em-up with a small V-8, automatic, 2-whl drive, regular cab (not the extented version) and it's capable of getting a decent gas mileage as far as a pick-up goes. It will do pretty decent keeping the cruising speed at 65 MPH - just going to 70 drops it a full mile per gallon and drops like a rock after that.
Then, there's the matter of the camper and what size tires it has. The smaller the tire, the more revolutions it has to make to keep up with the TV's larger (usually) tires and that can lead to heat build-up which then can lead to a tire failure. I pull a small Starcraft with the 12" tires and both Starcraft and the tire manufacturer say that 65 is tops for that size tire. Since the truck can handle the small camper with ease. on level country I'll set the speed control at 65. As I get into the rolling hill country, off goes the cruise and I'm subject to pick-up a little extra speed going down hill (like maybe to 70) to help with climbing the next hill coming up. I have, without being aware of it, increased my speed to excess ... like 80! Especially prone to do this after dark and have to keep an eye on my driving habits.
Also, there's the matter of saftey. At 65 there's a little more time to react to whatever is going on along the way; and should something go amiss like a tire blow-out.
Bottom line ... I like 65.
Fly
Personally for us we have found that going over 65 produces sway. When we keep the camper below 65 we generally do not have any sway issues. Perhaps that is the line of reasoning that Honda used, I doubt it had anything to do with mileage or tire heating.
Sharon
The issue is more about, "how far it takes for you to stop", more than it is about, "how fast you can drive".
I think that Honda is telling you that if you drive over 55mph (while towing), your vehicle may not be able to stop within the legal limits. It's called "Disclaimer". Pretty soon you will have to sign a disclaimer in order to buy a McDonalds hamburger. I'm not sure that I even disagree with that. The only problem is, disclaimers are becoming so common place that very few people take them seriously until something bad happens. When it does, the manuf can say, "I told you so".
We just purchased a property in Fallbrook. We had to sign 47 pages of disclaimers and disclosures. I'm not the type to take that sorta stuff lightly, so it took about 3 hours to read and sign these papers. The real-estate agents almost came unglued because I wanted to take the time to "READ" :yikes: what I was signing. They alloted 1 hour for the singing of about 75 pages of documents.
BTW, as an added note............I agree with 55 on your Honda. They have very thin disk brake rotors and may be susceptible to premature brake fading when over-loaded (JMHO)
As wavery said, Honda's 55 mph tow limit is legal disclaimer. I suppose they are trying to cover their posteriors lest someone sue them who was towing a two ton TT at 90 mph and crashed.
You're likely not going to do any damage to your TV by driving 70 or 75 mph on a nice, flat highway. Your gas mileage may or may not suffer, either. I've noticed with my Durango and current popup, the gas mileage remains the same whether I'm going 65 or 75 mph in the flatlands.
Sway might be a concern. If your camper starts swaying, slow down. Perhaps consider getting a wdh.
Braking is the real concern, as wavery said. If you have brakes on your camper, though, that's not really an issue, either.
My bottom line: Drive speed limit if you like. Most of us do, I'm pretty sure. I promise not to tell Honda!
Quote from: mountainrevBraking is the real concern, as wavery said. If you have brakes on your camper, though, that's not really an issue, either.
I don't believe that is universally true. Our van, a 2000 Chevy Astro, weighs about 900 lbs per wheel normally, and about 1150 lbs per wheel when fully loaded for a trip. Our pop-up weighs over 1600 lbs per wheel, and the 10" drum brakes are not as good as the Astro's at raw braking power. That's a lot to ask of pop-up brakes to not have an impact on stopping distance, especially in a panic stop.
Braking is always a concern with any trailer. It's just a matter of degrees.
Austin
Hi all
I am a School Bus Driver with a federal license. leagally any vehicle towing anything must follow the 55mph as it is not safe for braking and other drivers as well. Just some info for ya.
Steff
Remember your not the only one on the road.
Safety First
Aside from Steffin's correct reply...
With my Explorer V8, we originally had a small (lightweight) popup. No brakes. It towed OK, but at about 65, showed signs of sway, and was the upper limit of what I would normally drive.
Next was a much heaver Coleman Niagara... but it had brakes and a sway bar. It was far easier to tow, and I was comfortable cruising at 75 - or higher, but that really was pushing "the law". Stopping was good with trailer brakes (generic brake controller).
Now, I tow a Jayco 23B Hybrid. Much bigger & heaver. A big "cross-section" behind me to catch the wind. However, I also now have an Equal-i-zer hitch. Honestly? It is easily far more rock solid and stable behind me than my Niagara - due to the Equal-i-zer hitch. I recently upgraded from generic to a Prodigy brake controller (my wife was dumbfounded by me spending over $100 to replace "something that worked"). Now, if my Explorer could handle it, I'd probably be comfortable at 90mph. Note, my camper has dual axles, and good brakes that can easily drag my Explorer to a fighting stop if I apply the "emergency" on the Prodigy. Sadly, due to the wind seriously affecting my MPG, I usually tow at about 60-65 (ie, in California, quite a bit slower than traffic).
So, what is the best answer for you? Well, since you are using a lighterweight tow vehicle, and your PUP may have smaller tires (does it have brakes?), I'd honestly suggest you give a lot of weight to the manufacturer's suggestion. From there, it is a personal evaluation of your ability to control your TV & camper "beyond normal standards" (ie, skill and practice).
MPG:
Bare: 18
Light Starcraft PUP: 16
Heavier Niagara: 14
Bigger/Heavier Hybrid: 11mpg
(towing uphill, V8 can still do 60 mph, but I drop to like 6-7 mpg!)
Quote from: SteffinMIany vehicle towing anything must follow the 55mph
This is true in Michigan, but not necessarily in other states. In Colorado, the maximum speed limit for towing is 75 mph. Here's a link which lists the towing speed limits in all states:
http://www.boatus.com/trailerclub/laws.aspI'm not advocating that everyone ought to tow at 75 mph, by any means. Be safe and prudent! But 55 mph across Nebraska? Not this camper!
Quote from: SteffinMIHi all
I am a School Bus Driver with a federal license. leagally any vehicle towing anything must follow the 55mph as it is not safe for braking and other drivers as well. Just some info for ya.
Steff
Remember your not the only one on the road.
Safety First
Definitely a state-by-state restriction.
Austin
Quote from: mountainrevThis is true in Michigan, but not necessarily in other states. In Colorado, the maximum speed limit for towing is 75 mph. Here's a link which lists the towing speed limits in all states: http://www.boatus.com/trailerclub/laws.asp
I'm not advocating that everyone ought to tow at 75 mph, but any means. be safe and prudent! But 55 mph across Nebraska? Not this camper!
Howdy!
I was sent the page below as a guide to all the towing laws from a Colorado RV dealer...none of the States here list any speeds above 65, and most below this!
It is also a good idea to check your specific owners manuel to see if a recommended maximum speed is listed!
Also be aware that on most trailer tires, there is a speed rating for the specific sizes...
Remember my favorite saying..."Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!"
http://www.recvehicle.com/laws.html
Quote from: mountainrevTHere's a link which lists the towing speed limits in all states: http://www.boatus.com/trailerclub/laws.asp
I am not sure where (or when?) they got their information... but that page lists California as requiring brakes on trailers over 3,000 lbs -- however,
CA is 1500 lbs... so, if possible, check with each state's own Motor Vehicle department.
Granted, 10 minutes of looking hasn't revealed Colorado's laws - but this page contradicts the above link and says Colorado is 65 mph for trailers:
http://www.rvcentral.com/towusa.htmConfusion abounds...
Quote from: zamboniConfusion abounds...
You said it! Lots of contradictory info on the websites. Most have disclaimers saying you should contact your local enforcement agency.
This is a fairly major issue, since many of us tow our campers through many different states. I'm going to try to contact the Colo. Highway Patrol and see if they have an answer, but the CHP and CDOT websites don't seem to have any info on laws regarding trailers. Frustrating and confusing!
Mountainrev
Thanks for the link to the site.
I about choked when I checked NH and Maine. If I tow at their limit of 45 mph I will get run off of the road. I generally tow at about 60 to 65 and it is rare that I pass anything but a dead bird. I feel comfortable at these speeds and I wonder if I wouldn't be more of a hazard to others if I was doing 45.
Minimum highway speed is 45 mph and max is 65 mph in NH. Below 45 and I need to turn on my flashers.
I searched and searched on the 'net for info about towing speed limits from official (i.e., dep't of transportation and highway patrol) websites for western states, esp. Colorado. Nill. I put in a call to the Colorado State Patrol. They haven't returned it.
I have driven in Illinois, and I believe they actually post the limit for towing vehicles on their Interstates. But beyond that, I've never seen any sign indicating that there is a different speed limit for towing campers. I've always driven at the posted speed limit (or below if I feel it's too fast). I've passed many a state patrol with radar gun. And I've never been pulled over.
I'm starting to wonder if these towing speed limits are kind of like "no spitting on the sidewalk on Sunday" laws. Sure, they're on the books (at least in some states), but most people (including law enforcement) are ignorant of them, and they are widely ignored and unenforced.
Remember when the speed limit in Nevada was "Reasonable and Proper"?
Besides trying to not getting tickets, I shoot for R&P. Is it truly safer for me to be travelling down a 2 lane road on a holiday weekend with a line of cars a mile long folllowing? Or is it safer to stay with traffic and leave a greater distance between the car in front of me? My experience is that if I don't stay with the flow, lots of others will take unnecessary chances trying to pass me, endangering me as well as themselves and approaching traffic.
Wonder why we have so many laws, disclaimers, and fine print? I believe it is because so many people have no concept of Reasonable and Proper and need someone else to help them use common sense. That scares the bejeebers out of me.
Common sense also tells me to keep my rig well maintained and then I don't have to worry about burning up bearings, etc. Check my trailer brakes at the intervals recommended, make sure the brakes on the TV are in good shape. Remember, PU brakes or not, you are probably causing more wear and tear on the TV brakes, check them often.
Speaking of driving, I had some "interesting" experiences on our recent 4800 mile trip.
First off, yes, the trailer towing speed limit in Illinois is posted (on I-80 at least) as 55 MPH. This applies to commercial trucks too. Few of them were obeying this, however. Except one time - i noticed a whole line of trucks in the right lane ahead of me, all of them doing the 55 MPH thing. A bit later we all passed a patrol car with a radar gun. These professionals had obviously detected him and had made the necessary adjustments.
Now back to the "interesting" part. I kept my speed about 61 or 62 most of the time because I found that my mileage drops drastically above that speed. Several times on the trip I found myself behind someone who was going much slower than the speed limit. I would move into the passing lane to pass, and suddenly this guy decides to go the speed limit. Since he's now going 65 (or 70, depending on the state,) I'm starting to be left behind at my 62 MPH. So now, here I am in the left lane, traffic is behind me, and I want to avoid an unsafe and unreasonable speed (for a trailer) in order to pass the guy. I want to move back into the right lane, but by now an impatient driver has decided to get around ME by moving into that lane to pass! I always signal my intentions, I wait for the guy in the right lane to either go past me or slow down to let me in. (Even though this sort of person NEVER slows down to let me in.) If it's especially bad, there are now several people who have decided to use the right lane for their passing lane. The last time this happened, the guy passing in the right lane was a motorcyclist. He gave me the one-fingered salute as he passed me.
This got me to thinking. Since this happened so many times (I'm guessing about a half-dozen to maybe ten times on the three-week trip), my driving habits might need to change. I'm thinking that from now on I'm going to pass even if I have to go faster than I am usually comfortable. What do you think? Am I causing these situations by my unwillingness to drive at 70 or 75 MPH while passing?
-Speak
California posts speed limits on all fwys. as 55mph for cars with trailers. Depending on the freeway, I'd say it's a crapshoot about enforcement. While my little trailer pulls as if it's not there, my 10" wheels would simply explode if I tried to go with the flow of traffic. So, my speed is never more than 60. In addition, because of the craziness of drivers here I rarely stay in the right lane. If they're POed at me, fine. Law also states that trailers can travel in the right two lanes, so I'm not illegal. In So. Cal we have some fwys. with left exits, so as soon as I see the sign for the exit I move over. I actually called the CHP & asked them if that's what I could do without getting a ticket & they said it would be fine. My first time out I did get a ticket, just because I was dumb & didn't learn the laws before towing. Made me kind of mad at the dealer for not telling me what the laws were, but it was still my responsibility. Pretty expensive lesson!
Quote from: SpeakEasySpeaking of driving, I had some "interesting" experiences on our recent 4800 mile trip.
First off, yes, the trailer towing speed limit in Illinois is posted (on I-80 at least) as 55 MPH. This applies to commercial trucks too. Few of them were obeying this, however. Except one time - i noticed a whole line of trucks in the right lane ahead of me, all of them doing the 55 MPH thing. A bit later we all passed a patrol car with a radar gun. These professionals had obviously detected him and had made the necessary adjustments.
Now back to the "interesting" part. I kept my speed about 61 or 62 most of the time because I found that my mileage drops drastically above that speed. Several times on the trip I found myself behind someone who was going much slower than the speed limit. I would move into the passing lane to pass, and suddenly this guy decides to go the speed limit. Since he's now going 65 (or 70, depending on the state,) I'm starting to be left behind at my 62 MPH. So now, here I am in the left lane, traffic is behind me, and I want to avoid an unsafe and unreasonable speed (for a trailer) in order to pass the guy. I want to move back into the right lane, but by now an impatient driver has decided to get around ME by moving into that lane to pass! I always signal my intentions, I wait for the guy in the right lane to either go past me or slow down to let me in. (Even though this sort of person NEVER slows down to let me in.) If it's especially bad, there are now several people who have decided to use the right lane for their passing lane. The last time this happened, the guy passing in the right lane was a motorcyclist. He gave me the one-fingered salute as he passed me.
This got me to thinking. Since this happened so many times (I'm guessing about a half-dozen to maybe ten times on the three-week trip), my driving habits might need to change. I'm thinking that from now on I'm going to pass even if I have to go faster than I am usually comfortable. What do you think? Am I causing these situations by my unwillingness to drive at 70 or 75 MPH while passing?
-Speak
Impatient drivers often endanger others. I do not change my driving techniques while towing. I would sit in the left lane driving a safe speed until safe to get back into the right. If others are bothered by that, too bad. They are the ones driving unsafely by passing in the right lane. I have seen trucks caught in this situation, and I'll sit in the right lane and clear traffic to let them in, even while not towing. I hope they appreciate the effort.
A situation of my own a couple weeks back. I was towing our TT, approaching a construction area, driving in the right lane about 60 MPH in a 65 MPH speed limit. A dark colored Land Cruiser had been traveling in the left lane just behind the trailer for about a mile. The left lane was closed ahead, plenty of signs posted to warn of the situation. This guy decided to pass me just before the lane closed. He almost took out a couple of barrels before he cut back in front of me, it was that close. I was pretty upset, but did nothing. The closure was only for a short bridge, then the highway was opened back up again. It wasn't like this was a multiple mile closure. About 5 miles later, I passed a dark colored Land Cruiser pulled over by a state trooper. I almost stopped and told my story to the trooper, but didn't. Just smiled, waved and continued on. Sometimes justice is served.
Thanks for all your replys. I may decide to keep my speed limit to 65mph based on the comments here even though the speed limit in Michigan is around 70mph on the highway.
I was wondering just because I used a V6 3.3ltr 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager to tow my pop-up and I went around 65-75mph depending on traffic from Illinois to Michigan and back; maybe around 400 miles or so. I did have a trans cooler installed. I did only drive in 3rd gear for the whole trip. After I came back home; it seemed that something new was happening to the van. I am not sure what was was happening. The strange thing was that this noise would only happening while in idle. Not while driving. It would describe it more like a van "klunk" like the van did a slight lurch. Knowing how bad Chrysler transmissions are on minivans, We decided after that to just trade the Plymouth Minivan in for a 2006 Honda Odyssey minivan. The Honda Odyssey has a more powerful engine and more torque than the older Plymouth did. With today's and (tomorrow's) gas prices a more powerful and gas guzzling TV is out of the question and considering we only tow maybe 2% of all our driving. I want to pop-up camp around 3-5 times a year on three day weekends.
Quote from: DoubleDRemember when the speed limit in Nevada was "Reasonable and Proper"?
No. I do remember some other state doing that, though. It might have been North Dakota.
QuoteBesides trying to not getting tickets, I shoot for R&P. Is it truly safer for me to be travelling down a 2 lane road on a holiday weekend with a line of cars a mile long folllowing? Or is it safer to stay with traffic and leave a greater distance between the car in front of me? My experience is that if I don't stay with the flow, lots of others will take unnecessary chances trying to pass me, endangering me as well as themselves and approaching traffic.
In most mountainous states, it's a violation of law to allow more than 5 vehicles to accumulate. After that, you are required to pull over and allow them to pass (when safe to do so)
even if you are travelling the speed limit.
QuoteWonder why we have so many laws, disclaimers, and fine print? I believe it is because so many people have no concept of Reasonable and Proper and need someone else to help them use common sense. That scares the bejeebers out of me.
Or they just have a lack of experience. On the same mountain pass, I'd be more afraid of a Florida driver with a 1,000 lb. trailer with brakes than a Colorado driver with a 2,000 lb. trailer without. The latter may be violating the law, but the steepest and highest hill the former has seen in his home state is a highway overpass! How would he know that it just ain't safe to tow that setup at that speed over that hill?
QuoteCommon sense also tells me to keep my rig well maintained and then I don't have to worry about burning up bearings, etc. Check my trailer brakes at the intervals recommended, make sure the brakes on the TV are in good shape. Remember, PU brakes or not, you are probably causing more wear and tear on the TV brakes, check them often.
Absolutely true. Absolutely true.
Austin
I just returned from a trip to San Antonio, and I had a blow out on the way back. I saw the popup sway then the tire went. I saw all the cars getting out of my way, but the pu stayed right behind my tv. Maybe I was lucky, but it stayed straight as an arrow behind me. I was going about 60 to 65 mi. per hr.
Quote from: kineI just returned from a trip to San Antonio, and I had a blow out on the way back. I saw the popup sway then the tire went. I saw all the cars getting out of my way, but the pu stayed right behind my tv. Maybe I was lucky, but it stayed straight as an arrow behind me. I was going about 60 to 65 mi. per hr.
What were you towing, and what were you towing with?
Austin
QuoteIn most mountainous states, it's a violation of law to allow more than 5 vehicles to accumulate. After that, you are required to pull over and allow them to pass (when safe to do so) even if you are travelling the speed limit.
Hmmm, just curious. If someone is doing the speed limit, how does someone else legally pass them?
Quote from: banjorulesHmmm, just curious. If someone is doing the speed limit, how does someone else legally pass them?
The slower moving vehicle is required to
pull over. In all of the 41 states I have driven in (apparently with the exception of Maryland), "pull over" means remove your vehicle from the travel lanes of the road and stop. At that point, any moving vehicle at any speed can pass you.
Austin
Quote from: AustinBostonThe slower moving vehicle is required to pull over. In all of the 41 states I have driven in (apparently with the exception of Maryland), "pull over" means remove your vehicle from the travel lanes of the road and stop. At that point, any moving vehicle at any speed can pass you.
Austin
That's got me sorta confused, too ...!
Are you saying that when I'm driving on an ole two lane highway, one coming one way and another going the other, and the posted speed limit is 55mph and I'm traveling that posted speed limit, that because "speeders" want to pass me, I have to pull over and let them by ...?
Please 'splain that to me so I can understand how one law will supersede the other. Now, I can fully understand if I was traveling slower than the posted limit how that would require me to have to yield.
Fly
Quote from: AustinBostonIn most mountainous states, it's a violation of law to allow more than 5 vehicles to accumulate. After that, you are required to pull over and allow them to pass (when safe to do so) even if you are travelling the speed limit
Austin
Since I do spend quite a bit of time in the North Carolina mountains and never heard of any law saying that I had to yield to traffic that was accumulating behind, even though I was traveling the speed limit. I just e-mailed the NC highway department law enforcement division and inquired if such a law applied here. I'll post it just as soon as I get a reply.
Fly
Quote from: flyfishermanSince I do spend quite a bit of time in the North Carolina mountains and never heard of any law saying that I had to yield to traffic that was accumulating behind, even though I was traveling the speed limit. I just e-mailed the NC highway department law enforcement division and inquired if such a law applied here. I'll post it just as soon as I get a reply.
If you think North Carolina is mountainous, you need to get out more! When you can show me a NC road with a 12% grade or a NC road that maintains >8% grade for 12 continuous miles, then you can call it mountainous.
Yes, I've driven in NC (DSIL is stationed at Camp Lejeune in Jacksonville...drove I-40 from Knoxville with a 5,000 lb trailer strapped on), and I've also driven in Utah, Colorado, California, and Wyoming, where they really do have mountains. There is a huge difference.
When you've sat behind a vehicle that is holding up 40 cars for 10 miles, you get a bit frustrated. So do the other 39 drivers. So it's illegal.
Austin
Quote from: flyfishermanThat's got me sorta confused, too ...!
Are you saying that when I'm driving on an ole two lane highway, one coming one way and another going the other, and the posted speed limit is 55mph and I'm traveling that posted speed limit, that because "speeders" want to pass me, I have to pull over and let them by ...?
Yes, absolutely.
QuotePlease 'splain that to me so I can understand how one law will supersede the other. Now, I can fully understand if I was traveling slower than the posted limit how that would require me to have to yield.
It doesn't superceede the other. You are not allowed to impede the normal flow of traffic. The law doesn't say the "legal" flow of traffic.
It is not your responsibility or perogative to enforce the speed limit. In states with such a law, you must allow faster traffic to get by when you have developed a parade behind you, regardless of your speed.
I should add that you never really know your speed. Although most vehicle spedometers are reasonably accurate, simple things like tire wear or using tires with a slightly different tire diameter can easily affect the reading by as much as 3-4 mph. So if you are at one end of the variation and the guy behind you is at the other, your spedometer may say 55 when his says 48. To him, you are going too slow and he is legal. Those states with the law in question say you are illegal.
This is the reason most courts generally find speeding tickets of less than 5 mph to be unenforceable. (Judges usually have some discretion on this. Giving the cop some lip can make it enforceable in a hurry.)
Austin
The big question is........who gets the ticket? The speeder or the person not speeding?
Pull over when it is safe? I guess that would be in an area where people were not speeding. Hmmmm... what a dilemma.
If I am doing the speed limit, I don't care if I get a ticket for impeding the flow of traffic , towing or not towing.
It would be make for a good conversation piece and probably an interesting news article.
Quote from: chasd60The big question is........who gets the ticket? The speeder or the person not speeding?
Pull over when it is safe? I guess that would be in an area where people were not speeding. Hmmmm... what a dilemma.
If they're stuck behind you and your spedometer, then nobody is speeding.
QuoteIf I am doing the speed limit, I don't care if I get a ticket for impeding the flow of traffic , towing or not towing.
You should. You might well get turned in for being partly at fault in the accident. Remember, every driver behind you will be mad at you, not just the idiot who decided to pass in an unsafe manner.
QuoteIt would be make for a good conversation piece and probably an interesting news article.
Actually, people who live in those areas would not even notice. If there was a news article, the headline would be "How come they don't do this more often?" because they have all sat behind vehicles that would not move out of the way for 12 miles uphill in a 35 zone, then another 8 miles down the other side in a 30 zone.
Believe me, a slower driver can become a real nuisance in some places. These laws didn't grow themselves. They came out of a real need and real political pressure. They have been tested in court, and they have stood up.
The only reason they are not enforced a lot more is because the roads they really apply on are seldom patrolled. But if you are so worried about the speed limit, you really ought to be concerend with this, because it is just as against the law as speeding.
Austin
I'll take my chances and stick with the posted speed limit. Sounds like we have the right to choose and you choose to break the law by speeding approach and I choose to break the law by impeding the flow of traffic while doing the speed limit.
I have to say that I have had a couple of speeding tickets in my life but I have yet to be stopped for doing the speed limit. I drive 46 miles to get to work every day and haven't had a problem. You refer to people that do the speed limit as "slower drivers". I leave with plenty of time so I don't have to drive like a maniac.
Maybe we should test this out. You drive 20mph over the speed limit every where you go for the next month and I'll do the speed limit and we can collect the data and tabulate the results.:D
Quote from: AustinBostonIf you think North Carolina is mountainous, you need to get out more! When you can show me a NC road with a 12% grade or a NC road that maintains >8% grade for 12 continuous miles, then you can call it mountainous.
Yes, I've driven in NC (DSIL is stationed at Camp Lejeune in Jacksonville...drove I-40 from Knoxville with a 5,000 lb trailer strapped on)
Very familar with that stretch of I-40 from Knoxville to Wilmington, have traveled it many times. But that's really not mountain driving. After all, interstates were designed to find the easest way, and where the going got tough, they drilled and dynamited and tunneled through to make the way a kind of piece a cake. If you want to experience mountain driving in North Carolina, you need to get off that prissy interstate and take on some of the secondary two lane roads, afterall, those would be the kind we were taking about, where you have to find a place to pass. There are some river gorge roads that will fill the bill for what your looking for; a real sharp decent and they will indeed last for longer than 12 miles. They will zigzag and cut back so sharp that you'll be able to study your camper's rear bumper! And you'll drop and drop and drop and wonder if your ever going to reach the bottom, ears popping on the way down. Then when you do, in a short distance, you'll have to start the climb out, just as steep and as long a distance. Guaranteed to sort out the wheat from the shaft on your tow vehicle and it's set-up with the camper!
In trying to get out more, have made a few trips out west myself, even pulling the two different popups I've had (your not the only one to have "motored west"). The last trip I made was in 2001 pulling the present little Starcraft. Bummed around Colorado, southern Wyoming and northern New Mexico for about 5 weeks (my agenda is trout fishing), so I'm inclined to get off the beaten path ... on to a lot of secondary roads. Now, I don't ever recall encountering a steeper secondary road in that part of the Rockies - higher elevations and longer decents to be sure, but not any steeper than the N.C. gorges I've already mentioned.
But all this is beside the point. Secondary mountain roads I've been on, as already mentioned, North Carolina, Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming ... some will have passing lanes in certain areas. It will be a two lane highway and on some steep grades, where possible, they will have widened the road so there is a third passing lane for a distance, with signs saying "slower vehicles keep right" - and where these passing lanes are, the faster drivers can get around.
Got an answer on my e-mail from the North Carolina dept of transportation - there's no such law on the books for NC, but where there are lanes and signs that say the slower drivers are to keep right, then can indeed get ticketed for not moving over. And in their closing, saying the obvious, that it's only common courtesy to pull over in a safe place and let others go by, if possible.
One other point, about me not getting out enough ... back in 1955 when I returned to the U.S. from Korea and was assigned for awhile at Camp Pendleton, California, then got orders to report to Camp Lejeune. I "borrowed" (was given to me) a utility trailer and hitched it up to our, new to me, .. (o.k., it was my wife's), 1954 Ford club coupe, loaded that utility trailer with an old canvas wall tent, a Coleman gas stove and whatever else I could find in camping gear, and we made our way accross country, visiting national and state parks and seeing whatever sights there were to be seen (was a sort of honeymoon). And there were no interstates, mostly two lane highways for the most part. But what a grand time we had ... You remember 1955, don't you, Austin? Now, don't tell me you were making doo-doo in your britches then...? (LOL)
Fly
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Quote from: chasd60I'll take my chances and stick with the posted speed limit. Sounds like we have the right to choose and you choose to break the law by speeding approach and I choose to break the law by impeding the flow of traffic while doing the speed limit.
I think you owe me an apology for that. I never said or even implied that I speed. I obey all traffic laws, and all I am asking is that you do the same. You seem to be refusing.
QuoteI have to say that I have had a couple of speeding tickets in my life but I have yet to be stopped for doing the speed limit.
I have never had a speeding ticket and only one other ticket. I've been driving for so long I don't want to calculate it.
That one ticket came in the mail. It was a mechanism for raising revenue, and just by showing up to fight it, it was thown out. The hearing lasted ten seconds. Eventually, the whole system ended with a class action suit. That is the only ticket I have ever received. Oh, and the "infraction" allegedly occured when I was at work and PJay was driving. She was directed through a red light by a uniformed police cadet and written up for doing so by another cadet. Neither had the athority to do what they did, but it was routine procedure.
QuoteI drive 46 miles to get to work every day and haven't had a problem. You refer to people that do the speed limit as "slower drivers". I leave with plenty of time so I don't have to drive like a maniac.
I did not. I referred to slower drivers...whether or not they are doing the speed limit. BTW, don't you live in Maine? I thought that made you a Maine-iac by definition. ;)
QuoteMaybe we should test this out. You drive 20mph over the speed limit every where you go for the next month and I'll do the speed limit and we can collect the data and tabulate the results. :D
How about you drive like you drive and I will drive like I drive and we will tabulate the results. Just don't expect to be ignored driving like that in the mountains of Colorado.
Austin
Quote from: flyfishermanIf you want to experience mountain driving in North Carolina, you need to get off that prissy interstate and take on some of the secondary two lane roads, afterall, those would be the kind we were taking about, where you have to find a place to pass.
If there is a place to pass, it's not really a mountain road - not like the ones I've driven on in other states.
QuoteThere are some river gorge roads that will fill the bill for what your looking for; a real sharp decent and they will indeed last for longer than 12 miles.
An 8% grade for 12 miles is nearly a mile change in altitude. You have river gorges in North Carolina that are as dep as the Grand Canyon?
QuoteThey will zigzag and cut back so sharp that you'll be able to study your camper's rear bumper!
Granted; eastern mountain roads will make western roads look as straight as an arrow. But that is part of the problem. It is often possible to drive these roads at much faster than the speed limit. Everyone knows the speed limits are there for the idiots from flatter states with more vehicle than he can handle. If he obeys the speed limit (and he should) he becomes a nuisance.
QuoteIn trying to get out more, have made a few trips out west myself, even pulling the two different popups I've had (your not the only one to have "motored west"). The last trip I made was in 2001 pulling the present little Starcraft. Bummed around Colorado, southern Wyoming and northern New Mexico for about 5 weeks (my agenda is trout fishing), so I'm inclined to get off the beaten path ... on to a lot of secondary roads. Now, I don't ever recall encountering a steeper secondary road in that part of the Rockies - higher elevations and longer decents to be sure, but not any steeper than the N.C. gorges I've already mentioned.
Short term, perhaps, but in the long haul you can't have a 10,000 foot descent in North Carolina.
QuoteBut all this is beside the point. Secondary mountain roads I've been on, as already mentioned, North Carolina, Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming ... some will have passing lanes in certain areas.
It will be a two lane highway and on some steep grades, where possible, they will have widened the road so there is a third passing lane for a distance, with signs saying "slower vehicles keep right" - and where these passing lanes are, the faster drivers can get around.
I've been on plenty that have not. (But I agree that most do - eventually.) Those that do not usually have a brake check area at the top of the pass. Then you get to do it all in reverse.
QuoteGot an answer on my e-mail from the North Carolina dept of transportation - there's no such law on the books for NC, but where there are lanes and signs that say the slower drivers are to keep right, then can indeed get ticketed for not moving over. And in their closing, saying the obvious, that it's only common courtesy to pull over in a safe place and let others go by, if possible.
In some places, it's not just common courtesy, it's the law.
QuoteFly
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Have a little trouble with the enter key? :)
Austin
Sorry about that, you didn't say you speed.
I think this thread (//%22http://www.arveeclub.com/showthread.php?t=56060%22) will shed more light on whether you should pull over or not:yikes: