PopUp Times

We were heading south on I-35 between Duluth and Minneapolis MN today (Labor Day), with the Taj MaHaul in tow.  PJay was driving, and we were doing 69mph in cruise (speed limit there is 70).  Anyway, she pulled into the left lane to provide safety clearance for three vehicles that were on the shoulder and just starting to move.  The center vehicle was a pickup pulling a smallish Palomino.

A few minutes later, the Palomino passed us, travelling at least 80.  The spare tire was shredded.  These were the little tires on the 10" wheels...

Folks, I consider 70 to be pushing it speed wise, and I have sigificantly larger tires/wheels than this guy.  The RPM's those little wheels had to be turning makes my head spin.  He was asking for another shredded tire.  I'm sure this guy is blaming the tire, not his speed.

Don't push your luck.

Austin

I am totally new to the pop up thing. Infact we jusy got our first and, have not taken her out yet. I have been acussed of having a lead foot. Thank you for the heads up warning.

Our first year of camping, I traveled 65 on the interstates, speed limit 70. Then, on a long trip to VA, we drove 70 with no problems, and I have since then. However, I have recently started driving 65 again, while towing, because it is easier to let them pass me, rather than me having to work hard at passing others.

I am also much less stressed about the tire RPM's at this speed, as AB alluded to.

Larry

I would tow at 65 mph max with the popup.  Now, I'm 60 mph max with the travel trailer.  People on a TT board I'm active on pooh pooh the idea that excessive speed can affect the life of a tire, yet they complain in various threads that this tire it terrible and that tire is no good.  Too many blowouts!

Quote from: dthurkI would tow at 65 mph max with the popup. Now, I'm 60 mph max with the travel trailer. People on a TT board I'm active on pooh pooh the idea that excessive speed can affect the life of a tire, yet they complain in various threads that this tire it terrible and that tire is no good. Too many blowouts!

OMG.... 65 max with a pu? I've been going 75, my bro-in-law goes 80! He always complains what took me so long!

Quote from: madkatz1OMG.... 65 max with a pu? I've been going 75, my bro-in-law goes 80! He always complains what took me so long!

Have you had a tire blow out?  I never liked (and still don't like) higher speeds when towing.  I feel more in control of the rig with a slower towing speed.  I'll get there.  If I want to get there sooner, I'll leave earlier.

My top speed is 65 on the super slabs. I tow our Niagara with a  Dodge 1500 pickup and have never used a sway control, however, at 70 mph the trailer will start to wiggle slightly and remind me that I am going to fast. It's a great speed control..We prefer to travel on the back roads as much as possible at 55 to 60. The fuel milage goes up and the trip is much more relaxing. The scenery is much better too.....

Quote from: Old GoatMy top speed is 65 on the super slabs. I tow our Niagara with a  Dodge 1500 pickup and have never used a sway control, however, at 70 mph the trailer will start to wiggle slightly and remind me that I am going to fast. It's a great speed control.

I feel the same way.  When I drive and sometimes get over 65 I can feel the PU start to wiggle.  I don't like that feeling at all.  I slow down and it gets under control again.  I figure I AM going camping so what is the hurry.  I can relaxe when I get there.

I go a slower now too.  Usually about 60.

We went to South Dakota this summer ~ Black Hills ~ and a combination of things conspired to take out both my tires.  I didn't have a blowout, but only because I noticed how bad the tires were when I got to the campground and replaced them in Rapid City ~ before we drove home.

This was our only 'long' trip of the season and I had repacked the PU to get a few more things in.  This trailer has always towed beautifully ~ no sway or any other issues.  Shortly after we left she started swaying and I repacked again ~ adding some tongue weight.  That took care of that problem ~ or so I thought.

I made another rookie mistake in not checking the air pressure in the tires.  (I haven't made the same mistake since!)  The combination of poor loading, underinflated tires, 100*+ temperatures across SD and speed (70-75) led to the tires being worn THROUGH the tread.  We would have had a blow out with both tires on the way home for sure.  (btw ~ our trailer was the 3rd one at the campground we were at that needed new tires!)

The last few trips I've made sure to check the air pressure, kept the trailer properly loaded and slowed down.  It's made a difference in both my peace of mind and in the TV gas mileage.  I may not get there fast, but I'll get there.

Quote from: madkatz1OMG.... 65 max with a pu? I've been going 75, my bro-in-law goes 80! He always complains what took me so long!

It's easy for beginners to bite off more than they can chew.  A review of your post history makes me think you are fairly new to towing.

Those responding that they tow at 60 or 65 have been towing for many years or even decades.  They come from all over the country and drive on all kinds of roads.  There is wisdom in their experience.

I know what my response to a family member making that kind of comment would be..."What you do is up to you, but you have absolutely no business trying to pressure me to put my family's safety at risk like that."  If he kept it up, I would tell him where to go.

I know when I was new to towing, I got into a situation that could have been fatal for a number fo people, and not just those in my van.  It was so dangerous that the story made Pop-Up-Times.  I thought I knew what I was doing and what the risks were, but I was wrong - almost dead wrong.  I was lucky.  We drove away.  You many not be.

A week in the hospital and months or years paying medical bills will soak up all the time saved by speeding in an entire lifetime several times over.  A life lost can not ever be made up.  It's not worth it.

Austin

I tend to do 70mph max, depending on the traffic flow.  I have 13" tires on my popup.  Hopefully the popup tires can handle it.  When towing, I always accelerate slow from a full stop and try to do slow stops as well.  My goal is to keep the RPM's on the tow vehicle around 2 at all times.

I've joined the 65mph crowd as well; and for some good reasons.

The faster one goes the quicker things happen and as much as I hate to admit it, I simply do not have the fast reflex action I had once upon a time. In short, 65 is a resonable safe speed for me towing and keeping abreast of what's going on.

My little Starcraft sports the 12" tires and Starcraft, as well as the running gear manufacturer (Dexter Axle), plus the tire manufacturer, all recommend a top speed of 65. The little twelvers have to revolve faster to keep up the larger TV  wheels/tires.

What's more, I have discovered that my full sized GMC pick'em-up delivers some decent gas mileage while towing at 65. On my last trip to the mountains I had to drop south to pick-up a fishing buddy and that made a considerable distance towing in the level country side which resulted in 19.8mpg ... not too shabby for a V-8 pick-up! Of course, getting into the mountain foot hills and certainly the mountains themselves, the mileage drops off. Takes more energy (fuel) to tow uphill. Have towed this rig faster with this present TV and I can tell you the mpg really drops like a rock at 75+.



Fly

When we camp, we generally take the PA Turnpike to get where we are going.  I stick to 60, 65 when passing.  The reason?  Too many times I have come across people who belive the Yield sign on the entrance ramp applies to the folks on the Turnpike and not them.  They will drive right out in front of you without a thought, and without looking.  I'd rather take it slower and have more time to react to the idiots, and keep my family safe.  Less tire wear and better gas milage are just secondary benifits.

Quote from: madkatz1OMG.... 65 max with a pu? I've been going 75, my bro-in-law goes 80! He always complains what took me so long!

Your brother-in-law is one of those people that, as they pass me, I say to myself, "I get paid to be a trauma nurse. I'm not getting paid today."

Larry

Quote from: KellyThe last few trips I've made sure to check the air pressure,

This is, almost, more important than speed.


I was thinking about creating a thread on PUT today about tire pressures; at our last Rally, I walked around with my digital pressure guage.

Every tire I checked (about 5 rigs) was a minimum of 10 lbs low.  One PUP, which was supposed to be at 65 PSI was at 40 and 38 PSI.


Folks, rubber tires leak, period.  According to Cooper Tire, they normally lose about 2 PSI.  However, there are numerous wonderings on the Internet why tires that are used more frequently seem to lose air SLOWER (lots of discussions on bicycle forums).  A hypothesis is that unused tires contract, weakening seams & seals.  Another is that rubber does outgas, and also air simply slowly leaks through.

Also, check your pressure COLD.  I've had 5th wheelers tell me that the number on the side of the tire isn't right, you are supposed to check it warm, and make sure the pressure NEVER goes over the "recommended number" no matter how hot the tire is.  Huh
 :eyecrazy:

Think your car/camper tires are bad?  Aircraft tires lose up to 5% pressure in 24 hours (allowed by FAA)


As for the pressue - do not use the pressure printed on the tire.  That is the max the tire can handle; use the number printed on your car/camper's vehicle tag (eg, my Explorer is 30 lbs front, 35 rear -- but the tires can handle up to 45 lbs).

According to surveys, a mere 15% of drivers keep the correct pressure in their tires.

A tire can also lose up to half its pressure before it STARTS to look flat

Ford & Firestone lost a lot of money because so few people maintained their Explorer tire pressures.  I had an "affected" Explorer (ie, with the Firestone tires).  I kept my pressure proper, and they lasted about 70,000 miles.

After taking out our new Utah on its maiden voyage, I found myself sticking around 65-70 mph thru Wisconsin. Not only did I feel safer, I didnt get a ticket like all the other suckers this past weekend. :p  I think that will be about as fast as I will push it. I would be worried about a blowout going faster. I did get it up to 75 at one point, only because it felt so nice and smooth towing it and I didnt realize it right away :yikes: . As soon as I realized, it was back to 70.  ;)

John

A couple of comments on the subject.

 
First folks see 8 or 10 inch wheels and assume the tires must be rotating lot's faster than say a 13 inch wheel. Well the wheel size means diddly. It's the diameter of the tire that controls the distance the tire rolls per reveolution and the number of revolutions per mile.
The average size for 8 & 10" tires sizes is between 20 and 22 inches in diameter. For 13 inch tires between 24-26 inches. So at most the smallest diameter tire rotates only apx 25 % faster than the largest.
 
Until about 2 years ago the only speed rating for ST tires was "capable at highway speeds". Recently tire manufacturers have started listing 65 mph or 60 mph as the speed rating for their ST tires. Mainly due to the increased limits that exceed 60 & 65 mph on several states' highways.

Quote from: zamboniAs for the pressue - do not use the pressure printed on the tire. That is the max the tire can handle; use the number printed on your car/camper's vehicle tag (eg, my Explorer is 30 lbs front, 35 rear -- but the tires can handle up to 45 lbs).

This is true for the original tires on a vehicle.  For trailer tires you should always tow with them at the max capacity, if you are loading the tires close to their maxims weight capacity.  I changed the tire size on my PU.  My old tires were 50 psi max, my new tires are 65 psi max and I run them filled to 65.  If you don't inflate them all they way and you are towing a heavy load you will run the risk of extra heat build up and loosing a tire.:)

Did you ever notice anyone who wouldn't get out of  YOUR way is a Idiot and anyone who passes YOU is a Maniac ! ! ! ha ha ha

Quote from: Billy BobDid you ever notice anyone who wouldn't get out of  YOUR way is a Idiot and anyone who passes YOU is a Maniac ! ! ! ha ha ha

For me, that depends on which lane they are in (and whether they just had to pass me before slowing down).

Austin

Oh, the pass and slow down folks. It should be mandatory that every vehicle has cruise control.

Quote from: Billy BobOh, the pass and slow down folks. It should be mandatory that every vehicle has cruise control.

Just because a vehicle has it, doesn't mean the drivers will use it.;)

Or knows how to use it. :(

Quote from: Billy BobOr knows how to use it. :(

I've seen many cases where people made buying decisions based in part on some product feature.  Then they never used that feature.  Often, it's because they couldn't figure it out in 20 seconds and, although they were willing to part with cash for it, they weren't willing to educate themselves about it.

What a waste.

Austin

Quote from: AustinBostonIt's easy for beginners to bite off more than they can chew. A review of your post history makes me think you are fairly new to towing.
 
Those responding that they tow at 60 or 65 have been towing for many years or even decades. They come from all over the country and drive on all kinds of roads. There is wisdom in their experience.
 
I know what my response to a family member making that kind of comment would be..."What you do is up to you, but you have absolutely no business trying to pressure me to put my family's safety at risk like that." If he kept it up, I would tell him where to go.
 
I know when I was new to towing, I got into a situation that could have been fatal for a number fo people, and not just those in my van. It was so dangerous that the story made Pop-Up-Times. I thought I knew what I was doing and what the risks were, but I was wrong - almost dead wrong. I was lucky. We drove away. You many not be.
 
A week in the hospital and months or years paying medical bills will soak up all the time saved by speeding in an entire lifetime several times over. A life lost can not ever be made up. It's not worth it.
 
Austin

You're right, Austin. I will take this into consideration next time I tow my pu and arrive alive!

Quote from: AustinBostonI know when I was new to towing, I got into a situation that could have been fatal for a number fo people, and not just those in my van.  It was so dangerous that the story made Pop-Up-Times.  I thought I knew what I was doing and what the risks were, but I was wrong - almost dead wrong.  I was lucky.  We drove away.  You many not be.

For those of you still wondering what happened ~ you can read about it here.
Scared the bejeebers out of me the first time I read it and it's stuck with me ever since!

Austin just was'nt driving any faster than his Guardian Angel could fly.......

Quote from: Kelly
For those of you still wondering what happened ~ you can read about it here.
Scared the bejeebers out of me the first time I read it and it's stuck with me ever since!

I don't post that link any more when I would have in the past because I think it has scared some people away from towing alltogether.  I don't want to be responsible for scaring people away from a lifetime of fun and enjoyment because I had one really bad (and really stupid) day back six years ago.

Austin

Quote from: AustinBostonI don't want to be responsible for scaring people away from a lifetime of fun and enjoyment because I had one really bad (and really stupid) day back six years ago.

I didn't look at the link, but I remember what you are talking about.  It is hard to believe it has been that long ago.:)

I had a similar experience when I was young and dumb and a newbie at towing.  Coming home from camping on the PA Turnpike, going 80 mph I had to quickly swerve to miss a deep pothole.  My camper started swaying back and forth rapidly.   The camper sways one way which forces the car to swerve in the opposite direction back and forth.  I had no clue what was happening, but I knew it was not good.  I can still see that concrete mediun we were headed for.  Everything was in slow motion.  Someway, somehow we got to the shoulder of the road with no physical damage.   As we sat on the shoulder and saw all of the cars we had passed a few minutes ago slow down and pass us,  I silently thanked them all for realizing I was in trouble and giving me the room to somehow get myself out of the mess I was in.  As I reviewed my situation on the side of the road,  I then realized I could have killed my whole family and it was not worth the extra 20 minutes I may have gained in the end.  Strange thing was that my 3 and 5 yr old slept through the whole thing.

It was also the only time, I did something that stupid, that my wife did not yell at me about it...... well at least for the next 20 minutes.  Not to worry, she's back to normal now!

Take it slow, enjoy the ride and enjoy your life.

One thing I was wondering in regards to your experience AustinBoston, was that the Reese 350 is specifically designed not to allow any sway.  I still understand that what you did caused swaying.  I don't believe it should have.  I have the Reese 350 and find it incredibly difficult to apply the side bars.  I believe once the side bars are in place, there should be no way to to sway.  

I still don't understand what exactly "failed" causing you to sway.

Quote from: edwardr132One thing I was wondering in regards to your experience AustinBoston, was that the Reese 350 is specifically designed not to allow any sway.  I still understand that what you did caused swaying.  I don't believe it should have.  I have the Reese 350 and find it incredibly difficult to apply the side bars.  I believe once the side bars are in place, there should be no way to to sway.  

I still don't understand what exactly "failed" causing you to sway.

There were a number of things that failed, including my common sense.

First, no sway device can stop all sway.  The Mini-350 is only a mediocre sway control device.  It works by absorbing side-to-side energy in a manner very similar to the way brakes work.  But despite the effort needed to put the bars on, the force on those bars is not very high from a braking perspective.  We're talking about 2 pads of 6 square inches with a few hundred pounds of force on them trying to stop a 3,250 lb. trailer from moving in a particular direction.

If you have a bad setup, no anti-sway device will stop the sway.  I had a bad setup.  No, I had a terrible setup.

I had taken most of the stuff (including all the heavy stuff) out of the nose storage.  Without at least 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue, a trailer will sway.  Completely empty, the Bayside of that era had about 6-1/2% of it's weight on the tongue.  I might have had 9-10% on the tongue, except...

I had left about 1/2 tank of water in the tank that day.  The tank on this trailer is behind the axle, so it's weight reduces tongue weight.  Water weighs close to 8-1/2 lbs. per gallon, so having 1/2 tank behind the axle could take as much as 80-85 lbs. off the tongue.  I doubt I had more than 5% of the trailer weight on the tongue.

In addition, the tank is transverse  (runs side-to-side across the trailer) so that water in it can exaggerate side-to-side movements.  Imagine the impact of 85 lbs of water travelling even 10 MPH.

Now for the WDH.  I had tried to get the bars attached, and found out just how hard it was.  After several minutes of jacking and struggling, I loosened the setting on the Mini-350 (by turning the two rectangular "washers").  Doing so reduces it's sway control.  Then I loosened it again.  And again.  I finally got the bars on with the thing turned all the way down, meaning I had the absolute minimum sway control the Mini-350 could give.

In short, I made things as bad as I possibly could, then added my stupidity to that.  There was no way that trailer was not going to sway.

One other factor that I learned later was that only one trailer brake was working.  Applying the trailer brakes meant causing the trailer to pull to one side.  The moment I let go of the brake controller, the trailer started to pull back straight, and in the process re-started the sway.

It was a situation that, added together, I don't think even the very best sway bar could have handled, never mind a handicapped Mini-350.

Austin

Thanks, AustinBoston, I understand better now.

I wonder if both brakes worked instead of one side, I personally think your situation wouldn't have been as dangerous.  I wonder if that is what caused the popup to hit your bumper in the first place.

Quote from: edwardr132Thanks, AustinBoston, I understand better now.

I wonder if both brakes worked instead of one side, I personally think your situation wouldn't have been as dangerous.  I wonder if that is what caused the popup to hit your bumper in the first place.

As much as I hate to admit it, my stupidity was the biggest factor that day.  Everyone has five minutes of fame and five minutes (or more) of being an idiot.  It was my turn to be the idiot.

Austin

I'm just a dump (b) truck driver but I think that the poeple that think a sway control bar is the first thing to do when the trailer wiggles are dead wrong.
  First make sure your tires are aired up and not overloaded. Check that none of your axles are overloaded. Make sure the load is distributed front/rear and side/side. Make sure the trailer is proper level front/rear so the caster is right. After you get it set up to where it is naturaly stable then put on the anti-sway to increase the comfort level.

Quote from: ScoobyDooI'm just a dump (b) truck driver but I think that the poeple that think a sway control bar is the first thing to do when the trailer wiggles are dead wrong.
  First make sure your tires are aired up and not overloaded. Check that none of your axles are overloaded. Make sure the load is distributed front/rear and side/side. Make sure the trailer is proper level front/rear so the caster is right. After you get it set up to where it is naturaly stable then put on the anti-sway to increase the comfort level.

That's what I say, Scooby.  A sway bar is for insurance, not as a band-aid.

Austin