Yes, I was talking when I passed the mini-van, on the right, urban 4lane hiway, with my loaded dump truck. I was talking when I moved to the left 10 ft of the 14ft lane to miss the ladder on the right.I was talking when I ducked all over my lane to keep all 20 tires out of the holes the state can't fix. I was talking when the minni-van made 4 lane changes in 1/2 mile to get along side of me.I was talking when I saw that the wreck was likely, moved as far to the right as I could to give him all the room I could. I was not leaning across, yelling out the right window "Get of fone" when the air bags poped!
I'm not sure what even happened...who's air bags popped? Did they "just pop", or did you/minivan hit something? Was he/she yelling at you, or you yelling at her?
Much of what you described sounded like things that could have been avoided in a safer manner had you not been on the cell phone.
Austin
Quote from: ScoobyDooYes, I was talking when I passed the mini-van, on the right, urban 4lane hiway, with my loaded dump truck. I was talking when I moved to the left 10 ft of the 14ft lane to miss the ladder on the right.I was talking when I ducked all over my lane to keep all 20 tires out of the holes the state can't fix. I was talking when the minni-van made 4 lane changes in 1/2 mile to get along side of me.I was talking when I saw that the wreck was likely, moved as far to the right as I could to give him all the room I could. I was not leaning across, yelling out the right window "Get of fone" when the air bags poped!
:confused:
Quote from: AustinBostonI'm not sure what even happened...who's air bags popped? Did they "just pop", or did you/minivan hit something? Was she yelling at you, or you yelling at her?
Much of what you described sounded like things that could have been avoided in a safer manner had you not been on the cell phone.
Austin
Who is "Her"??
Am I missing something here? Is there another thread going that I'm not aware of? Nothing makes any sense to me (not that that's anything new :p ).
Quote from: waveryWho is "Her"??
Am I missing something here? Is there another thread going that I'm not aware of? Nothing makes any sense to me (not that that's anything new :p ).
You're not missing anything...I projected a "her" on the minivan, even after Scoob said "him"...so I'm the one who is confused. :confused:
My original post has been, uh, made gender neutral.
Austin
What could I have done safer? I noticed the van the first time I passed only because of the seat belt hanging out the passager door. (things loose, falling off can make trafic go nuts in a heart beat. At over 100,000lbs I can't change speed or direction very quick so I look for anything that might make a car duck.) Sure I was moving around IN MY LANE to avoid obstructions but if I hit the ladder parts would have been fling and cars dodgeing behind me,would they bang together? I always have to watch for cars weaving thru trafic behind me because when they get past me there is always a gap for them to jump into. The air bags went off in the mini-van because the driver was trying to yell at me instead of watching what he was doing that HE HIT THE CAR IN FRONT OF HIM. I had all the room I needed to stop, and they didn't even bounce into my lane,I was not involved. The only good thing was everybody was going slow, nobody hurt.
When I see a trucker that does not track in a straight line in his lane (pot holes or not), I assume he is either drunk, falling asleep, or on his cell phone. I asume (signal or not) that when he starts moving towards me, that he is going to keep coming.
Of course, yelling out my window to tell the trucker anything would have to be somewhere between total stupidity and road rage.
I hope they were not seriously hurt. My suspicion is it was potentially fatal, with a crushed chest or severly injured neck/head as they hit the vehicle/door frame with no kind of safety restraint. And I am sure, if they were able, they did not tell the police/ambulance what really happened.
Austin
I would say we're dealing with a major case of road rage here. What was the minivan driver looking to accomplish with his actions? Venting might make him feel better and make him think like he's "protecting the public", but inevitably comes down to venting with no change enacted.
Scooby's erratic driving certainly was misinterpreted, but did that justify the minivan driver in his actions? Was Scooby doing anything illegal? Even if he was, does a private citizen have the authority to do anything about it? I would think Scooby might have been a stimulus contributing to the incident, but I wold not think he could be accused of negligence. I would say the incident was caused by the minivan driver, who needs to learn to get a hold of his agressiveness.
Driving while using a cellphone without a hands free unit in NYS is illegal. Is the same the case in MO? That may change the whole perspective on the incident.
I think that a "hand free" adaptor is way over rated as a safty device. The problem with some drivers and cell fones (or makeup,shaving, reading a map,changing CDs) is they pay to much atention to the fone and not what is going on around them. It doesn't matter if your hand is upside your head, or in the trunk if your mind is not on driving. I do have a hands free adaptor in the truck I drive most of the time but would not have had it on if I had been in my normal truck. I use it if I am expecting a call that will take time if I don't have time to wait for it. The day the mini-van driver got so angry I took 5 calls in 3miles of rushhour trafic,but I knew what was going on around me.
Quote from: ScoobyDooI think that a "hand free" adaptor is way over rated as a safty device. The problem with some drivers and cell fones (or makeup,shaving, reading a map,changing CDs) is they pay to much atention to the fone and not what is going on around them. It doesn't matter if your hand is upside your head, or in the trunk if your mind is not on driving. I do have a hands free adaptor in the truck I drive most of the time but would not have had it on if I had been in my normal truck. I use it if I am expecting a call that will take time if I don't have time to wait for it. The day the mini-van driver got so angry I took 5 calls in 3miles of rushhour trafic,but I knew what was going on around me.
As a professional driver, you of all poeple should know that taking 5 calls in 3 miles of rush hour traffic is a dangerous situation, no matter how much you think you know about what is going on around you. In my personal opinion, cell phones should not be used in vehicles by the driver at all, period.
If I get a call while driving, I either let voice mail pick it up, or tell the person I will call them back. It is the leading cause of rear end collisions on the road today; not makeup, shaving or reading a map.
HANG UP AND DRIVE!!!! :swear:
Thank you for letting me vent-you touched on a sore subject with me. Living near a city of well over 400,000 people, I see that every day and have been rear ended twice by people talking on phones.
Dave
I have to tell you that I agree 100%. When I am driving down the freeway, I can always tell when the person in front of me gets a call. That person immediately slows and often swerves in their lane (sometimes out of their lane). Often times they will slow to 55 when the traffic is moving at 75. Then, you see people switching lanes and speeding by at 90 to fill the gap left by the oblivious person on the cell phone. It absolutely drives me nuts. I can't even count the number of times that I have had to sit in the left turn lane behind some person on the phone and that person doesn't move when traffic clears or the light changes.
I had a guy wipe out the entire right side of my car while he was speeding down the shoulder while talking on the phone. I bet that he thought he was is control too. He wandered in my lane and hit me while I was dead stopped.
The California Highway Patrol has concluded that driving while on the cell phone is the equivalent to driving drunk (with or without hands-free). I agree. Most people that drive drunk think that they are under control too. Some even claim that they drive better under the influence than they do sober.
I think that there should be devises installed on all freeways and intersections that disconnect cell signals. That would force people to get off of the highway to make or receive calls.
I agree, also, cellphones have no place on the road. But neither do all the other things people do behind the wheel while driving. NYS's cellphone law is probably the most disregarded law on the road today. It would make more sense to me to ban all activities that occupy your hands other than driving.
Be that as it may, in the OP, I believe the real problem came as a result of the minivan's driver's road rage which has also come under the scrutiny of lawmakers in various states. That's what caused the accident.
It is the leading cause of rear end collisions on the road today; not makeup, shaving or reading a map...
Yeah,right,
where the jell is the computer that keeps track of exactly what time you shaved? Some times when I see some lady tring to put her face on at a lite the chain from the headliner sure looks fun!
To stop to take the calls I would have to pulled onto a 9ft wide shoulder that is paved and rocked about 1/3 as deep as the driving lanes, that takes a real emergancy.
Quote from: waveryWhen I am driving down the freeway, I can always tell when the person in front of me gets a call. That person immediately slows and often swerves in their lane (sometimes out of their lane). Often times they will slow to 55 when the traffic is moving at 75. Then, you see people switching lanes and speeding by at 90 to fill the gap left by the oblivious person on the cell phone.
Quote from: dthurkI agree, also, cellphones have no place on the road.
I have to disagree. While there are people who should be arrested and jailed for taking a call while driving, there are plenty who can do so safely. Let me give you an example.
There is a strong tendency when my DW PJay and I are going the same place, she is driving. I have seen her driving on thousands of occasions and under very many circumstances, including at least a couple hundred times while on her cell phone. I've even seen her do conference calls. Wavery, I'll give you $1,000 if you can tell when she gets a call. My money is safe in the bank. She stays so in control of herself and the van that sometimes I don't know she's answered a call until I realize she isn't talking to me - and I am IN the van.
She knows her limits, and there are times when she just lets it ring. There are times when she'll say "hold on, have to drive" because she's dealing with a busy intersection or a tight lane change or something. I have seen her end a call because it started raining. I have seen her do a few dumb things while on the phone, but no more than when she's not on the phone.
In case you think I'm a poor observer, she would be the first to tell you that I am the driving instructor in our house, in part because I notice everything. I've learned (the hard way) not to bug her about the little stuff, but I certanly do see it.
Now me, you'd probably notice every time. I can't drive and chew gum (even hands-free gum) at the same time, never mind talk on the phone.
Maybe we need "no-cell phone" restrictions on licenses, the way some states used to have "no manual transmission" restrictions.
Austin
Quote from: dthurkI agree, also, cellphones have no place on the road. But neither do all the other things people do behind the wheel while driving. NYS's cellphone law is probably the most disregarded law on the road today. It would make more sense to me to ban all activities that occupy your hands other than driving.
Be that as it may, in the OP, I believe the real problem came as a result of the minivan's driver's road rage which has also come under the scrutiny of lawmakers in various states. That's what caused the accident.
We certainly don't have enough facts to make a judgment on ScoobyDoo's experience. I think that about 99% of the time that there is a rear end accident, the person that does the rear ending is at fault. It certainly does sound like the guy had a problem. Yelling at people that are on the cell phone (or doing anything else) is just plain immature and not very smart. We are not policeman.
On the other hand, there have been cases where a person that is not involved in the accident has been arrested and convicted of contributing to the accident due to road rage. The one that comes to mind is where 2 drivers were engaged in aggressive driving and road rage driving. One person lost control of her vehicle, resulting in a deadly crash. The other driver kept going, not realizing that other drivers witnessed the road rage and reported it to the police on the scene (along with the license plate # of the other car). That driver was arrested, prosecuted and spent 18 months in jail.
http://www.courttv.com/archive/casefiles/verdicts/alfieri.htmlIt's never simple :( .
In California, road rage will get you a mandatory 6 months in jail. All you have to do is get out of your car when someone is yelling at you or even pounding on your car. Once you get out of your car, you are a participant in the road rage and subject to mandatory jail time.
---------------------------------
AB,
There are people that do have exceptional ability to multi-task. There are also people that have the ability to drive while under the influence of alcohol. That doesn't negate the fact that there should be (and will be) ways to restrict the use of cell phones on highways and intersections.
I would guess that 90% of the people that use cell phones on the road will claim that they have the exceptional ability to not have the phone be a distraction to
THEM. I would also be willing to guess that less than 10% of those people actually posses that ability. You even stated yourself that PJ possesses that ability but, "She knows her limits, and there are times when she just lets it ring. There are times when she'll say "hold on, have to drive" because she's dealing with a busy intersection or a tight lane change or something." The problem is, emergencies don't happen when you expect them. Having the ability to handle an unexpected event, takes full, undivided attention to what you are doing. PJ understands that risk level as the risk heightens. That risk level is different for everyone and it only takes 1 time to be wrong.
Passing laws against the use of phones is a joke. IMO there should be proactive efforts taken to make it impossible to drive and talk on the phone. The FACT is, people are dying because of this activity. There is no disputing that and there have already been devises developed to interrupt these calls.
There are all kinds of people that are fighting the effort to install these devices. They use everything from economic damage to inability for drivers to call 911. The fact is, more and more people die every day do to driver's talking on the phone and either losing control of their vehicle, not having the ability to react in time to avoid a disaster or contributing to other drivers driving erratically to get around or avoid drivers on cell phones.
I tend to agree with the not talking on the cell when driving. My DH does it all the time and the worst is when he is trying to find someones number to call them. If I am driving I let the passenger answer my cell. I have talked on mine a few times but it just is too distracting for me. I do feel there should be a way for the passengers to talk on their phones while traveling but am not sure there is a way to allow this and not the driver.
I also think there are a LOT of people putting on make up, shaving, reading, etc and not watching the road at all. We were behind a couple last wknd that the woman was trying to read a map and the driver was reaching over and was all over the road. He was in both lanes and you would have thought he was drunk if you couldn't have seen the map. I am not sure what it will take to make people stop all of these things but something does need to be done. You can't give or teach a person common sense and that is what most are lacking.
I'm still a firm believer in the old saying: "If you don't like the way I drive, Stay off the sidewalk"
I am personally not a big believer in talking on the cell while driving.....but just to stir the pot :Z how do you explain that while flying I'm expected to keep track of other planes in the landing pattern, pay attention to FLYING the plane, monitor the frequency, AND talk to and respond to air traffic control?
There has to be an explanation for why we don't see headlines screaming, "Pilot crashes because they were talking on the radio". What could it be? Hmmm....I'll place my bet on the fact that people simply don't pay attention while driving period. Talking to passengers, looking for that thing you dropped on the floor, changing the radio station, yelling back at the idiot on talk radio, screaming kids in the backseat, passenger nagging about your driving, 5 gigawatt bass thumper blasting the latest Ludacris single. The list of distractions is endless. The cell phone is just one more distraction.
As I said, I'm not a big fan of talking on the cell while driving. I'm not a big fan of any of the other distractions listed above either. I am, however, a big fan of "Shut up and drive". :)
Quote from: MontereyI am personally not a big believer in talking on the cell while driving.....but just to stir the pot :Z how do you explain that while flying I'm expected to keep track of other planes in the landing pattern, pay attention to FLYING the plane, monitor the frequency, AND talk to and respond to air traffic control?
I think you know the answer to that, but for those who don't, it's about 1) Reaction time and 2) Vehicle separation.
Necessary reaction times in the cockpit are usually much, much longer than on the road. Except during landing and departing, a pilot typically has a much longer time to react, where a driver makes
constant 2-3 second reactions, and frequent sub-second reactions. During the takeoff roll or the end of the landing (when a pilot does need to be constantly able to react quickly), a pilot is typically tasked with *nothing* but flying the airplane. Call when you're in the air (takeoff) or call when you clear the runway (landing), but not during the roll (OK, T&G is an exception, but it's typically one quick call). That "in the air" doesn't mean the moment the wheels leave the runway, either. The pilot is given a chance to get a stable attitide before making his first radio call.
The details are more complicated than I want to explain, but traffic separation in aircraft is typically measured in thousands of feet vertically and thousands of feet or even in miles horizontally. Could you imagine the accident rate if, on the highway, we had to maintian five mile separation between cars, and we only drove on 1000 foot wide roads? There would be more plane crashes than car crashes, and we'd be allowed to drive 200 miles per hour.
QuoteThere has to be an explanation for why we don't see headlines screaming, "Pilot crashes because they were talking on the radio". What could it be? Hmmm....I'll place my bet on the fact that people simply don't pay attention while driving period.
Actually, it only takes a moment's inattention while driving. Do you ever look at maps, change channels, or (as you say) talk on the radio while flying? I doubt that you are looking for other aircraft while looking at a sectional, and that you often look at it for five to ten seconds or more at a time. You can't look at a map for ten seconds while driving. You would crash first if you tried.
I agree that not paying attention (or compromising the quality of that attention) is a big problem, but your comparison to flying is not a fair one.
Austin (stirred the pot back :p )
I'd venture that Montery identified the real problem:
People simply do not pay attention while driving.
Expanding on that, there are 2 types: Those who do, and are able to balance interruptions, and most of the rest -- who, if they're not distracted on the phone, are eating a burger, shaving, or playing a Led Zepplin drum solo on their dashboard (while supposedly driving).
Some people, when they sing and drive, do incredibly accurate Stevie Wonder imitations -- wiggling about so much, I doubt they even know where the road is.
To them, a cell phone is just a different way to distract someone who is usually distracted anyway.
If I ever talk on the phone (rare, as I don't have a set in my commuting car - can't hear the phone in a convertible), it is with a hands-free... and even then, I often say "hold on" and stop the conversation to do lane changes, merges, etc... or tell them I'll talk later, and hang up, if traffic gets heavy or I am in unfamiliar territory.
Quote from: MontereyI am personally not a big believer in talking on the cell while driving.....but just to stir the pot :Z how do you explain that while flying I'm expected to keep track of other planes in the landing pattern, pay attention to FLYING the plane, monitor the frequency, AND talk to and respond to air traffic control?
There has to be an explanation for why we don't see headlines screaming, "Pilot crashes because they were talking on the radio". What could it be?
Autopilot?
Copilot?
Quote from: waveryOn the other hand, there have been cases where a person that is not involved in the accident has been arrested and convicted of contributing to the accident due to road rage. The one that comes to mind is where 2 drivers were engaged in aggressive driving and road rage driving. One person lost control of her vehicle, resulting in a deadly crash. The other driver kept going, not realizing that other drivers witnessed the road rage and reported it to the police on the scene (along with the license plate # of the other car). That driver was arrested, prosecuted and spent 18 months in jail.
http://www.courttv.com/archive/casefiles/verdicts/alfieri.html
It's never simple :( .
I'm not sure how that's complicated. :confused: The driver who was convicted and sentenced was guilty of road rage by engaging in aggressive driving targeted at the other driver. She cut off the other driver (who was also engaging in the same road rage driving, btw) and then slammed on her brakes, causing the other driver to plow into the rear of a tractor-trailer. What you may not have realized,though, is the convicted driver was prosecuted under a fetal-homicide law, not a road rage provision.
QuoteIn California, road rage will get you a mandatory 6 months in jail. All you have to do is get out of your car when someone is yelling at you or even pounding on your car. Once you get out of your car, you are a participant in the road rage and subject to mandatory jail time.
Not sure where you get the part about just getting out of your car will get you a road rage conviction. That's not the law here in California. The applicable California Vehicle Code section is very clear about having to actually commit an assault. See below:
Cal.Vehicle Code
My favoriite bumper sticker?
"You are not driving a telephone booth"
Nuf Said.