I can't find it. I saw it when doing research on something else. It cost around 2 grand or so, but now can't find it. Wonder if anybody knows what I am talking about.
It is a two wheeled "dolly" is the best way to describe it. the tires are around 12" or 13" tires. the front of the trailer/popup attaches to it and it attaches to the 2" receiver on the TV. I thought it could be a "perfect" solution to handle tongue weight issues. Then the TV has no tongue weight to deal with. With it on, I believe you can then "load the Tongue Weight of the Popup" pretty "huge" like adding a full size truck box if you want and with the weight distributed over "4 tires", no worries then.....
I know I didn't go crazy. I know I saw it on the web. :eyecrazy:
Anyway, if someone knows what I am talking about and can find the link that would be really great!
I remember visiting the website and seeing the pictures. It was kind of like the dolly in the movie The Long, Long Trailer.
Didn't the video on the website show a 5th wheel trailer being towed by a 2' ball hitch?
In the trucking world the large semi tractor sized unit is called a converter dolly:
(http://www.mbi-trailers.com/trailers/DSC_2032.png)
IIR the one for RV connected to the TV at two points, making backing up easier/possible.
edwardr132 - I know what you're talking about. It was a super heavy duty dolly / sway control thingy. The dolly went in the hitch, and the trailer went on the dolly. I am going nuts trying to find it for you. I remember it having two 8 inch tires.
beacher - the video I think you're talking about would let you tow a 5th wheel with a bumper pull hitch. I remember seeing that video too.
(http://www.rvsupplywarehouse.com/content/product/large/toad_large.jpg)I FOUND IT!!
The "Trailer Toad":
http://www.rvsupplywarehouse.com/product/detail.cfm/nid/221/pid/3177 (//%22http://www.rvsupplywarehouse.com/product/detail.cfm/nid/221/pid/3177%22)
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
beacher - I think you were talking about this?? http://www.digisys.net/bics/ (//%22http://www.digisys.net/bics/%22)
I'll bet that backing up would be fun :-()
I think that I would buy a bigger TV before I'd spend $3K on that silly thing. :eyecrazy:
Thanks copcarguy! You have restored my sanity :-()
I was thinking that would be "perfect" for Minivans. One of the biggest problems with Minivans and other smaller SUV's is not the "towing part". The 6 cylinder engines and the transmissions should be able to handle them just fine. It is the tongue weight I was thinking is the first limiting factor in only having a 3,500lb tow capacity limit versus say 4,500lbs.
Quote from: waveryI'll bet that backing up would be fun
I second that! Years ago, I towed a vehicle from Texas to Wisconsin behind a U-Haul van using a U-Haul tow dolly. If I recall correctly, we were instructed to leave the ignition in the on position (although the engine was shut off) so that the steering wheel remained unlocked. In effect, this made for two separate pivot points when backing up: the ball on the hitch, and the movement of the car on the dolly via the unlocked steering.
I had to back into a few tight spots along the way, and it was nearly impossible for me to figure out how to do it. I would think this Trailer Toad thingy would be 10x worse. Sort of like those rigs we see on the Interstate consisting of a fifth-wheel pulling a jet ski. Fine when going straight down the road, but I would think next to impossible to back up.
I can't see any problem backing other than the sideload it would put on the TV when turnning sharp. It looks like the front of the dolly pins into the reciver in place of the ballmount. The pivot on the ball would be a long way behind the axle so a turn of the steering wheel will make more change in the front of trailer. BUT if the trailer ever sways then the extra length will cause more input side-to-side on the TV. you will have a double handful of seat and both hands on the steering wheel!
Quote from: ScoobyDooI can't see any problem backing other than the sideload it would put on the TV when turnning sharp. It looks like the front of the dolly pins into the reciver in place of the ballmount. The pivot on the ball would be a long way behind the axle so a turn of the steering wheel will make more change in the front of trailer. BUT if the trailer ever sways then the extra length will cause more input side-to-side on the TV. you will have a double handful of seat and both hands on the steering wheel!
Actually, I would expect it to be very difficult to sway with this thing. Why? The "rear axle", in this case, is the dolly's axle. The hitch point is directly over that axle, much like a 5th-wheel. Ever see a 5th-wheel sway? Well, getting this thing to sway (and affect the tow vehicle) would require the dolley wheels to loose traction.
I have seen much smaller and less expensive dolleys that work the same for hundreds rather than thousands. And these do work. It doesn't increase the tow rating, just teh tongue weight rating. You still can't tow a 4,000 lb. trailer with a minivan.
If you've ever seen "The Long, Long Trailer" with Luceile Ball (sp), if you watch carefully, you can just catch a glimpse of one of these in a copule of the shots.
I seem to recall discussion the last time these came up about how many axles you pay for at toll booths. I don't recall whether the question had a definitive answer.
Austin
Quote from: ScoobyDooI can't see any problem backing other than the sideload it would put on the TV when turnning sharp. It looks like the front of the dolly pins into the reciver in place of the ballmount. The pivot on the ball would be a long way behind the axle so a turn of the steering wheel will make more change in the front of trailer. BUT if the trailer ever sways then the extra length will cause more input side-to-side on the TV. you will have a double handful of seat and both hands on the steering wheel!
I think you're right. It looks like the dolly wheels are steerable, thus allowing the dolly to follow the TV around turns, etc. Therefore, backing up would be no more difficult than normal.
Ever see a 5th-wheel sway? Well, getting this thing to sway (and affect the tow vehicle) would require the dolley wheels to loose traction.
Never saw a 5er sway, but using something like what "beacher" pictured yes. ( one thing a rookie at pulling triples is told "Don't look in your mirror when on the 'pike")
If the wheels on the Dolley pivot to follow the TV, that would elimanate the sideload strain put the sway problem would be much worse. If your TV needs this much help go bigger in front or smaller in back.
Quote from: ScoobyDooEver see a 5th-wheel sway? Well, getting this thing to sway (and affect the tow vehicle) would require the dolley wheels to loose traction.
Never saw a 5er sway, but using something like what "beacher" pictured yes. ( one thing a rookie at pulling triples is told "Don't look in your mirror when on the 'pike")
If the wheels on the Dolley pivot to follow the TV, that would elimanate the sideload strain put the sway problem would be much worse. If your TV needs this much help go bigger in front or smaller in back.
There is a huge difference. What Beecher pictured has two pivot points. This only has one. Normally, I would say that lengthening the stinger that much would be a terible idea, but I believe the introduction of both weight support and a new traction point makes for a much more stable situation.
Believe me, I am rather paranoid about trailer sway. If wasn't convinced it would be more stable, I would not say so. I very nearly rolled our van and trailer several years ago. It took all three lanes of the interstate plus the breakdown lane to regain control. For a good deal of that time, I was far from sure that we would. Since then, I've learned so much about sway that I've forgotten more than most have ever known. I am convinced that this thing is stable.
From their web site:
"Carries the majority of the trailer tongue weight. Also reduces trailer sway, improves ride."
And expensive.
Austin
Quote from: AustinBostonThere is a huge difference. What Beecher pictured has two pivot points. This only has one. Normally, I would say that lengthening the stinger that much would be a terible idea, but I believe the introduction of both weight support and a new traction point makes for a much more stable situation.
Believe me, I am rather paranoid about trailer sway. If wasn't convinced it would be more stable, I would not say so. I very nearly rolled our van and trailer several years ago. It took all three lanes of the interstate plus the breakdown lane to regain control. For a good deal of that time, I was far from sure that we would. Since then, I've learned so much about sway that I've forgotten more than most have ever known. I am convinced that this thing is stable.
From their web site:
"Carries the majority of the trailer tongue weight. Also reduces trailer sway, improves ride."
And expensive.
Austin
How fast were you going?? hehehehe :p
If the wheels on the dolly pivot, it would not be a "traction point", it would just go with the tounge. If they don't pivot, you better put those spring bars somwhere else, you want all the weight on the tires for traction. All in all I think that thing was built to sell, not to use.
BTW a van on 3 lane interstate can be hairy,but try grossing 90, running 70, on a two lane blacktop, and have the pin that holds one side of the tounge in the 35,000lb trailer. I got stopped, mostly on the road, nobody hurt, but the cab of that truck smelled for months!
Quote from: waveryHow fast were you going?? hehehehe :p
65 MPH.
Austin
Quote from: ScoobyDooIf the wheels on the dolly pivot, it would not be a "traction point", it would just go with the tounge. If they don't pivot, you better put those spring bars somwhere else, you want all the weight on the tires for traction.
Does the second drive axle on a tractor trailer pivot WRT the first drive axle? This thing will be closer (on most vehicles) to the rear axle than the two axles on a tractor trailer.
And in order for the wheels to not suppress sway, they would have to pivot a lot - like 30-40 degrees. I would not expect it to have to pivot more than 5-10 degrees to properly track the tow vehicle.
QuoteBTW a van on 3 lane interstate can be hairy,but try grossing 90, running 70, on a two lane blacktop, and have the pin that holds one side of the tounge in the 35,000lb trailer. I got stopped, mostly on the road, nobody hurt, but the cab of that truck smelled for months!
I had to gather courage to drive the 3 miles to the exit, and stayed below 50 MPH the whole way. In my case it was a combination of a number of things that caught up to me (including trailer issues, inexperience, ignorance, and plain old stupidity).
Austin
Do most of you set a limit as to how fast you tow? I've decided on 65, since I'm not using sway control, don't have trailer brakes and I have a short-wheelbase suv.
My PUP only weighs about 2,000 lbs., though, and it has a nice hitch weight of about 210 lbs.
Quote from: fallsriderDo most of you set a limit as to how fast you tow? I've decided on 65, since I'm not using sway control, don't have trailer brakes and I have a short-wheelbase suv.
My PUP only weighs about 2,000 lbs., though, and it has a nice hitch weight of about 210 lbs.
I usually aim at 65 or traffic speed, whichever is slower. On rural interstates in good condition, I may go 70, but gas mileage really suffers. In 28,000 miles towing with this trailer, I don't think it's seen more than 5 minutes over 71 MPH.
I have trailer brakes, sway control, weight distribution, and a medium wheelbase mid-sized van, and I am still only willing to go 5 mph faster than you, but my trailer is heavier (3250 lbs) and is known for stability issues.
Austin
Another benefit I noticed this past Saturday as I was towing our PUP for about 2 hours on the interstate was that with my cruise set at 65, I RARELY had to tap my brakes to slow down because I was moving slower than traffic. They were all passing me and moving out of my way. That makes for much less stressful driving. If it takes me 10 or 15 more minutes to reach my destination, so be it!
I'm not sure, though, on a very long trip if I would have the discipline to keep my cruise set at 65. I guess I will find out next year.
Quote from: fallsriderDo most of you set a limit as to how fast you tow? I've decided on 65, since I'm not using sway control, don't have trailer brakes and I have a short-wheelbase suv.
My PUP only weighs about 2,000 lbs., though, and it has a nice hitch weight of about 210 lbs.
55MPH.......60 if I am passing. California law is 55 for a vehicle towing a trailer (although one would think that it is 85).
We won't talk about my TV as it irritates some people here :% . I have never had any sway issues. I even drove 75MPH
once, when I was doing a brake fade test. I have no sway bars or weight distribution devices. I have trailer brakes.
My trailer weighed out at 2975# fully loaded. Tongue weight is 332# (with 2 - 29 series batteries and full a propane tank).
Fallsrider, when I'm not working, I mostly run 65 or less, mostly below speed limits. Last year I ran 1 tank of gas at 55MPH got almost 17MPG. I wish I could stand to do that all the time. Most of the time I'm towing (or driving) I'm more worried about how long it will take me to stop then how fast I am going.
BTW the drive axles on a tractor do walk some in relation to each other,(rubber bushings) the trailor pivots center of axles or forward of center.
I don't know if the wheels on the dolly pivot or not, don't care the thing still looks like it is made to try to drive a spike with a tack hammer.
Quote from: fallsriderI'm not sure, though, on a very long trip if I would have the discipline to keep my cruise set at 65. I guess I will find out next year.
In the course of owning and traveling some respectable distances with my present PU, with a consistent towing weight of a tad over 2,000 lbs, plus a TV rated to handle much more, I've settled on a 65 mph speed. Although in hilly country will pick up a little more speed downhill (like to maybe 70) so as to easier climb the following hill, but overall target 65 except, of course, where lower speeds are necessary. Obviously the benifits of that speed are a much more relaxed, having good control, atmosphere ... AND ... good gas mileage!
Whatsmore, the time/distance factor is just not that different.
Fly
Quote from: waveryWe won't talk about my TV as it irritates some people here :% . QUOTE]
Ok Wavery, I'll bite.... What kind of TV are you using?
Way back in the 50's these were fairly common as cars were used for TV's a lot more than trucks and a lot of them couldn't handle the tongue weight and WD hitches weren't really available. The main problem with that rig is the axle does not pivot. It replaces the drawbar so it's rigid to the rear of the TV. So every time you turn the tires scrub. Ask any one with a dual axle trailer which tires wear out more. With this axle several feet from the rear axle scrubbing would be a real issue.
I must of lived in a diffrent world.
Way back in the 50's these were fairly common as cars were used for TV's a lot more than trucks and a lot of them couldn't handle the tongue weight
IMO the average car from the 50's would handle as tongue weight as the modern "1/2ton truck" AND pull it on a bumper hitch.
Quote from: ScoobyDooIMO the average car from the 50's would handle as tongue weight as the modern "1/2ton truck" AND pull it on a bumper hitch.
I could agree with the average 50's car being able to tow as much as a 1/2 ton truck, but not quite the tongue weight. The reason is that before reaching the limits of the average car's towing ability, the tongue weight would be high enough to remove all traction from the front wheels. I have little doubt that most cars could take that without damage, too.
Austin
Quote from: ScoobyDooI must of lived in a diffrent world.
Way back in the 50's these were fairly common as cars were used for TV's a lot more than trucks and a lot of them couldn't handle the tongue weight
IMO the average car from the 50's would handle as tongue weight as the modern "1/2ton truck" AND pull it on a bumper hitch.
In that the 50's were my heyday and I owned some of those full framed, rear wheel drive, V-8's ... AND ... somewhere along the line I become hooked on pick-up trucks, even till to-date, not so sure the average full sized sedan of that era would compare to today's full sized pick'em-ups for laod capacity. True, today's run-of-the-mill pick-up is more attuned to a softer, spongy ride than their counterparts of yesteryear, the average sedan or station wagon of the 50's was still softer sprung in the rear. I base this on my experience of doing some trailer towing in the 50's; had to beef-up some rear suspensions in order to handle the tounge weight. Today's pickups, like I've already acknowledged, are softer in the rear than their couterparts of years back, but I'd still give the edge to today's pick-up over the 50's sedan in that it is designed to carry more weight.
Fly