All:
I just purcahsed a PU ('98 sunridge) and loaded weight is probebly going to run about 3000-3200lbs (2350 dry) and I am trying to find out details of what I need to add to my 2001 T&C LXi. Yes, I know a Minivan is not the best TV but that is what I have (OK also have an explorer that can do it but 3 kids in the back seat is tight). It has the 3.8l engine but NO towing package. With the towing package I know the rating is 3500 (or 3800 depending on who you talk to) (GCVW si 8600) . Without it it is 2000lbs/6600lbs. The question I have is what do I need to add to my vehicle. In looking up the origional option I see the towing package added the wiring harness (no big deal), Hitch (again no issues), Rear suspension leveling (I plan to put in a set of Timbren rubber springs to help there if need be but will be using a WDH so I may not need them), and the HD tranny/Oil/Rad cooler. In looking at the vehicle today, it does have a tranny cooler already sandwidched between the rad and A/C cooler but I am guessing they beef that up with the tow package? So is all that I need is a second Tranny cooler (aftermarket)? If so do I intall before or after the factory one or do I bypass the factory unit? Lastly is it possible I am already set witht he cooler installed?
Thanks in advance
I towed my 3000 pound PU for 3 years with a 1999 Ford Windstar minivan. I had Timbren rubber springs installed to help with the rear end sag. I do not know what is included in the Chrysler towing package, but the tyranny cooler is the big thing. You will be running close to your max tow capacity if not being over loaded, so take your time getting where you are going. Does your camper have brakes? If so you will need to have a brake controller installed in your TV (tow vehicle) to activate the brakes. Good luck and happy camping. Feel free to check out the COTOC section of the message board and join us on any of our trips.:)
yep the PU has electric brakes so I am putting in a brake controller, forgot to mention that. I know the minivan has a Tranny cooler already I just need to figure out if it is big enough or if I have to add another.
Thanks for the reply.
Quote from: babyboberAll:
In looking at the vehicle today, it does have a tranny cooler already sandwidched between the rad and A/C cooler but I am guessing they beef that up with the tow package? So is all that I need is a second Tranny cooler (aftermarket)? If so do I intall before or after the factory one or do I bypass the factory unit? Lastly is it possible I am already set witht he cooler installed?
Thanks in advance
In general - Tranny coolers aren't that big, especially compared to an A/C condenser, and I have never seen an external one put in-between the rad and condenser. Normal order Rear to Front - Radiator, A/C, tranny cooler.
Traditionally, the stock (non-towing) tranny cooler is incorporated into the radiator, unless external.
I have a 1999 T&C LXI with the factory tow package. It has a oil cooler, a transmission cooler ,which I believe is a little larger than the non towing one comparing it to our other Dodge minivan, a heavier duty alternator and a full sized spare tire. Other than that the hitch and wiring hookup.
You can't have "Too much" tranny cooler.
Aftermarket units are not expensive (around $35-$100) and they are easy to install. You may have room in front of your radiator to add one. It doesn't matter whether you put it before or after the factory cooler. What does matter is that what you are looking at is actually a tranny cooler and not a power steering cooler.
It not only helps keep your transmission cool, it also helps keep your engine cool.
Make sure that you top up your transmission oil after installing it and make sure that you use the correct transmission oil. This is crucial on late model Chrysler products. I believe that yours uses a synthetic oil. It is NOT a good idea to mix any other transmission fluid with that. Check your owners manual for the ATF type (I believe that it is ATF-4).
Thanks All:
This is what I have been able to find out today. I called the dealer and talked to the parts dept. It seems that this model comes with a standard tranny cooler BUT it is too small for towing the heavy loads. Mopar has a large HD cooler as part of the tow package for $148 (ouch!). What this means is a lot of people out there have a false sence of security since they think they have a tranny cooler already and are all set. They are not. I have seen several posts saying all is fine if you have the tranny cooler in doing my research.
I tore open part of the front of the van today. Sandwiched between the very large AC cooler (this model have both a front and rear AC) and the radiator is the tranny cooler. It is probebly only 5"x12", not very big although the holding bracket goes all the way across which is deciving. Also it would be a $*%&^ to get at. Dealer said I could probebly put an aftermarket cooler inline with the standard one but to install it after the factory unit. Looking at placement to do this I would have to block the existing systems, but it could be done. The whole front cowelling and grill would have to come off by the looks of it. YUK.
Next I called the tranny shop where I had work done before on my Explorer. They instantly said yep you need a much larger tranny cooler, the factory one doesn't cut it. I asked about putting one in series and was told you probebly don't want to do that because their isn't much room and you could block airflow to the other cooling items which would not be good since I would be putting extra stresses on the van anyway. (note: a concern I had mentioned earlier).
They said they typically pull the existing tranny cooler and put a much larger one back in it's place in between the AC cooler and radiator. Cost $175 complete. So, I can spend $50 to $100 for a large HD cooler and several hours attempting to do this or let them do it for $175. I need to have a tranny service done anyway so...
Bottom line, Looks like the tranny cooler is the main thing I need besides all the towing stuff (WDH, brake controller, wiring, etc.).
QuoteYou can't have "Too much" tranny cooler.
Aftermarket units are not expensive (around $35-$100) and they are easy to install. You may have room in front of your radiator to add one. It doesn't matter whether you put it before or after the factory cooler. What does matter is that what you are looking at is actually a tranny cooler and not a power steering cooler.
It not only helps keep your transmission cool, it also helps keep your engine cool.
Make sure that you top up your transmission oil after installing it and make sure that you use the correct transmission oil. This is crucial on late model Chrysler products. I believe that yours uses a synthetic oil. It is NOT a good idea to mix any other transmission fluid with that. Check your owners manual for the ATF type (I believe that it is ATF-4).
This is correct for all 1989 and newer Chryslers. ATF+4 can also be used in older Chryslers as well. Look at my signature line and you will know how I know this. Also I work in an automotive parts store.
Quote from: babyboberThanks All:
This is what I have been able to find out today. I called the dealer and talked to the parts dept. It seems that this model comes with a standard tranny cooler BUT it is too small for towing the heavy loads. Mopar has a large HD cooler as part of the tow package for $148 (ouch!). What this means is a lot of people out there have a false sence of security since they think they have a tranny cooler already and are all set. They are not. I have seen several posts saying all is fine if you have the tranny cooler in doing my research.
I tore open part of the front of the van today. Sandwiched between the very large AC cooler (this model have both a front and rear AC) and the radiator is the tranny cooler. It is probebly only 5"x12", not very big although the holding bracket goes all the way across which is deciving. Also it would be a $*%&^ to get at. Dealer said I could probebly put an aftermarket cooler inline with the standard one but to install it after the factory unit. Looking at placement to do this I would have to block the existing systems, but it could be done. The whole front cowelling and grill would have to come off by the looks of it. YUK.
Next I called the tranny shop where I had work done before on my Explorer. They instantly said yep you need a much larger tranny cooler, the factory one doesn't cut it. I asked about putting one in series and was told you probebly don't want to do that because their isn't much room and you could block airflow to the other cooling items which would not be good since I would be putting extra stresses on the van anyway. (note: a concern I had mentioned earlier).
They said they typically pull the existing tranny cooler and put a much larger one back in it's place in between the AC cooler and radiator. Cost $175 complete. So, I can spend $50 to $100 for a large HD cooler and several hours attempting to do this or let them do it for $175. I need to have a tranny service done anyway so...
Bottom line, Looks like the tranny cooler is the main thing I need besides all the towing stuff (WDH, brake controller, wiring, etc.).
babybober,
Check your owner's manual to see when they recommend a transmission service on your van. Also, I might caution you about using a transmission shop for servicing your trans. They typically put new transmission fluid into vehicles from their bulk tank.
VERY FEW transmission shops stock ATF-4 fluid. PLEASE don't let anyone put anything else in your trans. It may damage it severely. Do a search on the WEB.
If you use a transmission shop, I would recommend going to the nearest Chrysler Dealer and buying 2 gallons of ATF-4 and stand there and watch them put it in. Also, don't allow them to flush your transmission. It is critical that they don't put
ANY other trans fluid in that trans. It is designed specifically to use ATF-4 (synthetic fluid) and it should not be diluted with other fluids.
I learned this the HARD way. I let a transmission shop tell me that it was OK to use ATF-3 in my 2001 Chrysler. I later learned what it could do to my trans. I had to go to the owner of the transmission shop with a copy of the technical bulletin from Chrysler. I bought 4 gallons of ATF-4 and they changed the fluid in my trans twice (running it for 20 minutes between) to get 90% of the ATF-3 out of it. The fact is, it is still diluted and that's not good. Chrysler recommends not even "Topping off" with anything other than ATF-4.
As for the trans cooler. I put this one in mine. The trans shop wanted $300 labor. They said that they had to take the car apart to install it. I installed it myself in 1 hour. I didn't have to take the car apart either.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HAYDEN-AUTOMATIC-TRANSMISSION-OIL-COOLER-18-000-GVW-NIB_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33727QQihZ020QQitemZ300069703592QQrdZ1
Quote from: babyboberThanks All:
I tore open part of the front of the van today. Sandwiched between the very large AC cooler (this model have both a front and rear AC) and the radiator is the tranny cooler. It is probebly only 5"x12", not very big although the holding bracket goes all the way across which is deciving. Also it would be a $*%&^ to get at. Dealer said I could probebly put an aftermarket cooler inline with the standard one but to install it after the factory unit. Looking at placement to do this I would have to block the existing systems, but it could be done. The whole front cowelling and grill would have to come off by the looks of it. YUK.
Next I called the tranny shop where I had work done before on my Explorer. They instantly said yep you need a much larger tranny cooler, the factory one doesn't cut it. I asked about putting one in series and was told you probebly don't want to do that because their isn't much room and you could block airflow to the other cooling items which would not be good since I would be putting extra stresses on the van anyway. (note: a concern I had mentioned earlier).
They said they typically pull the existing tranny cooler and put a much larger one back in it's place in between the AC cooler and radiator. Cost $175 complete. So, I can spend $50 to $100 for a large HD cooler and several hours attempting to do this or let them do it for $175. I need to have a tranny service done anyway so...
Bottom line, Looks like the tranny cooler is the main thing I need besides all the towing stuff (WDH, brake controller, wiring, etc.).
I believe most tranny cooler installs are done in series following the factory one, since it is usually running through the radiator.
Especially on Chrysler products, the A/T is a major failure item, so it is important to keep it cool and change the fluid regularily. You got me on the location, I've never seen one put in between like that, but from your description, that definitely is it. Regarding location, I've seen these tranny coolers put in some very odd locations - after my shop installed it on my Windstar, they swore they would never do it again. Another person I recommended them to had it done and they put the cooler in a high air flow location, but not in front of the radiator/condenser. I think it was near the front wheel, protected but definitely in a high flow area.
Quote from: wynotI believe most tranny cooler installs are done in series following the factory one, since it is usually running through the radiator.
Especially on Chrysler products, the A/T is a major failure item, so it is important to keep it cool and change the fluid regularily. You got me on the location, I've never seen one put in between like that, but from your description, that definitely is it. Regarding location, I've seen these tranny coolers put in some very odd locations - after my shop installed it on my Windstar, they swore they would never do it again. Another person I recommended them to had it done and they put the cooler in a high air flow location, but not in front of the radiator/condenser. I think it was near the front wheel, protected but definitely in a high flow area.
When adding an air-cooled tranny cooler to a factory, air-cooled tranny cooler, I don't believe that it makes any difference if you put it in-line before or after the factory cooler. If someone says that it does, I would sure like to hear why it does.
I was rather amazed to learn that Chrysler claims that it is not necessary to change synthetic based ATF-4 because it is not effected by heat like petrol-based ATFs. However, I will stick to changing my filter and fluid at least every 50K miles (25K miles on petrol based fluids).
Chrysler has significantly improved the reliability of their transmissions with the use of ATF-4 and the transmissions designed to use it. I have heard that the biggest percentage of trans failures on Chrysler products built after 1999 has been because of people putting petrol-based fluids in the transmissions.
Quote from: waveryI was rather amazed to learn that Chrysler claims that it is not necessary to change synthetic based ATF-4 because it is not effected by heat like petrol-based ATFs. However, I will stick to changing my filter and fluid at least every 50K miles (25K miles on petrol based fluids).
.
Wavery: This is true , sort of. In my manual it states for "severe" use (such as towing) or stop and go traffic regularly for 45min plus, etc.... change every 48000mi.
They say in normal use, no need to change it but I think normal to chrysler means " only driven to church on sunny Sunday mornings by little old ladies" :)
PS: I will make sure ATF+4 is used . THANKS
I'm glad you are really taking care of your Chrysler transmission. They seem to be the weakest link in Chrysler products, and I have heard of many failures if not taken care of.
Also, something that you mentioned, but really hasn't been talked about much: Your brake controller. Most dealers and inexperienced tow drivers will try to sell you a Tekonsha Voyager or some other time-based unit. Insist, or buy for yourself, a Tekonsha Prodigy. Will save you money down the road.
Larry
Quote from: brainpauseAlso, something that you mentioned, but really hasn't been talked about much: Your brake controller. Most dealers and inexperienced tow drivers will try to sell you a Tekonsha Voyager or some other time-based unit. Insist, or buy for yourself, a Tekonsha Prodigy. Will save you money down the road.
I agree with Larry. The Prodigy is the brake controller to buy.:)
Quote from: tlhdocI agree with Larry. The Prodigy is the brake controller to buy.:)
OK all: Time to open up another can of worms. Why the prodigy? I fully understand the difference between time based units and proportional units. Proportional is the way to go (Larry, FYI, the voyager is proportional not time based). The only thing I really see setting the prodigy apart is that it is self leveling instead of you having to manually adjust it on initial setup. Also it has a cute little digital readout telling you what level the brakes are coming on at. No offence but if it doing its job your eyes should be on the road.
So why (other then install) is the prodigy SOOOOO mush better then other properitonal units?
Quote from: babybober(Larry, FYI, the voyager is proportional not time based).
When I typed that, I had a little green man in the back of my head telling me that it wasn't time-based. However, there have been numerous accounts of Voyagers being retired to door stops, wheel chocks, or paper weights. Thanks for correcting me, because I do want accurate info here at PUT.
IIRC, the difference is that the Prodigy is Solid State, and does not need resetting. Apparently the Voyager's setting can drift and need resetting.
Can someone help me out here? I'm at work and don't have time at the moment to research my memory. :D
Larry
Good Luck with your popup. I hope you have many great adventures. Little bit of warning though. I did get the trans cooler, and was only towing a 1,700lb (empty, 2,200lb fully loaded) popup with our 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager. the 3.3ltr engine. I towed maybe about 500 miles in it when the van "reacted" to the towing experience with a sudden need for a new transmission. (the van had about 70K miles on it). Bottom Line, I seriously doubt you will have many "years of service" with your Chrysler minivan. Plan on it lasting maybe one year at most. Our Plymouth Grand Voyager was meticulously maintained with the trans "flushed out every 20k miles/so. After the van "reacted". We immediately traded it in and got the new Honda Odyssey. No way was I going to sink more money like a new trans into that van. Plymouth, now Chrysler/Dodge is still using basically the same transmission in all their vans.
I can't be certain that what caused the failure was "overheating". I just don't think it was designed to handle the towing experience, like putting a v4 engine into a Suburban. I would definitely put a transmission temperature gauge in the van. I don't think that will save you though. I would keep driving on the highway to about 60mph MAX. Don't go over 60mph. The wind drag causes the trans to work harder. This is not a problem with the Honda Odyssey.
I got a 2006 Honda Odyssey. Now that Minivan really was a "huge, "huge" difference towing. I hardly know it's back there. I always knew it was back there with the Plymouth Grand Voyager. The stopping distance was "terrible" on the Plymouth Grand Voyager. One thing I did learn is it is probably best to "load your coolers and everything else as much as possible in the popup and not in the back of the minivan.
I did do a lot things different though and learned some very "expensive" lessons.
1) I got the WDH. Cost around $600/so
2) Got the tow package on the Honda Odyssey (cost around $1200/so)
This is after paying up to a $1,000 getting the Plymouth Grand Voyager ready for towing.
Just be careful out there and don't push things. If you plan for the worst and don't get it; you've come out ahead.
Quote from: edwardr132Good Luck with your popup. I hope you have many great adventures. Little bit of warning though. I did get the trans cooler, and was only towing a 1,700lb (empty, 2,200lb fully loaded) popup with our 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager. the 3.3ltr engine. I towed maybe about 500 miles in it when the van "reacted" to the towing experience with a sudden need for a new transmission. (the van had about 70K miles on it). Bottom Line, I seriously doubt you will have many "years of service" with your Chrysler minivan. Plan on it lasting maybe one year at most. Our Plymouth Grand Voyager was meticulously maintained with the trans "flushed out every 20k miles/so. After the van "reacted". We immediately traded it in and got the new Honda Odyssey. No way was I going to sink more money like a new trans into that van. Plymouth, now Chrysler/Dodge is still using basically the same transmission in all their vans.
I can't be certain that what caused the failure was "overheating". I just don't think it was designed to handle the towing experience, like putting a v4 engine into a Suburban. I would definitely put a transmission temperature gauge in the van. I don't think that will save you though. I would keep driving on the highway to about 60mph MAX. Don't go over 60mph. The wind drag causes the trans to work harder. This is not a problem with the Honda Odyssey.
I got a 2006 Honda Odyssey. Now that Minivan really was a "huge, "huge" difference towing. I hardly know it's back there. I always knew it was back there with the Plymouth Grand Voyager. The stopping distance was "terrible" on the Plymouth Grand Voyager. One thing I did learn is it is probably best to "load your coolers and everything else as much as possible in the popup and not in the back of the minivan.
I did do a lot things different though and learned some very "expensive" lessons.
1) I got the WDH. Cost around $600/so
2) Got the tow package on the Honda Odyssey (cost around $1200/so)
This is after paying up to a $1,000 getting the Plymouth Grand Voyager ready for towing.
Just be careful out there and don't push things. If you plan for the worst and don't get it; you've come out ahead.
edwardr132
Sorry to hear about your experience with the 1997 Chrysler product. However, that was the "Break-back" year for Chrysler transmissions. You are correct, they did have a lot of failures.
Now that they have changed to using a synthetic-based transmission fluid and some basic mods on that trans, the failures have been dropped significantly.
Any transmission can fail do to a lot of things (including Honda's), towing is one of them and, of course, heat is the biggest problem. The synth-based trans fluid does not "Burn", like the petrol-based fluids. That is a huge plus. It will keep doing it's job at a much higher temp. When petrol-based fluids get too hot, you might as well have water in your transmission. The fluid would not keep the clutch-pack pressurized after it got too hot. The clutches would slip and the trans would fail prematurely due to worn out clutches and often hard part failure for the same reason. The synthetic fluid has resolved much of that issue. They also did some computer mods that have helped significantly.
I have a 2001 Chrysler with 80K on it. I have towed my 3000# (fully loaded) PU for about 2,000 miles now. My trans is fine. However, I don't exceed 55MPH and I haven't taken it on many mountain trips and never in the heat.
I don't what to concern you about the Honda but it has problems too:
http://forums.carreview.com/showthread.php?t=113Automatic transmissions are not a perfect science. A small percentage of them fail on almost any model of vehicle. IMHO, this synthetic-fluid may be the answer for a lot of manufacturers. It's just that Chrysler was the first to make the (expensive) leap.
Quote from: waveryI don't what to concern you about the Honda but it has problems too:
http://forums.carreview.com/showthread.php?t=113
Automatic transmissions are not a perfect science. A small percentage of them fail on almost any model of vehicle.
Ain't that the truth. My wife's Nissan Maxima's transmission failed at 5000 miles. Yep. 5K. But it has been great for the past 70K miles.
Then again, it was involved in a front end collision. I can't rule that out as a possible cause of the tranny failure.
Larry
Quote from: waveryedwardr132
Sorry to hear about your experience with the 1997 Chrysler product. However, that was the "Break-back" year for Chrysler transmissions. You are correct, they did have a lot of failures.
Chrysler has lost me as a customer forever, because of it. Makes me leery of all Domestic vans as well. I have owned Honda's all my life and have only had problems with their exhaust systems. I own cars an average of 13 years. The engines and trans on the Honda Accords are wonderfully engineered pieces of equipment. Hopefully the Honda Mini-Van will work out just as nice. The Chrysler minivan was our first and only domestic vehicle. My brother-in-law's Yukon XL looks mightly appealing right now if I can get him to deal though :D
Quote from: waveryWhen adding an air-cooled tranny cooler to a factory, air-cooled tranny cooler, I don't believe that it makes any difference if you put it in-line before or after the factory cooler. If someone says that it does, I would sure like to hear why it does.
air exchange to air exchange, I would kinda agree. But most A/Ts are cooled by integrated coolers using the radiator. It wouldn't make much sense to use an external cooler and then run it through the rad system.
Quote from: babyboberSo why (other then install) is the prodigy SOOOOO mush better then other properitonal units?
There are other brake controllers out there???
Actually, the Prodigy was a 10 minute install in my Chevy, set in a couple of minutes and I really haven't done anything since. I knew the first time I stopped that it wasn't our old controller (time delay).
Quote from: edwardr132Chrysler has lost me as a customer forever, because of it. Makes me leery of all Domestic vans as well. I have owned Honda's all my life and have only had problems with their exhaust systems. I own cars an average of 13 years. The engines and trans on the Honda Accords are wonderfully engineered pieces of equipment. Hopefully the Honda Mini-Van will work out just as nice. The Chrysler minivan was our first and only domestic vehicle. My brother-in-law's Yukon XL looks mightly appealing right now if I can get him to deal though :D
We have some devout Chrysler bigots as friends (means that Chrysler never made a bad anything). They sell their Chryslers right at 70,000 miles. When asked why (since I needle them about it), they said, so they don't have any problems with them. Sounds like denial to me...
Quote from: wynotWe have some devout Chrysler bigots as friends (means that Chrysler never made a bad anything). They sell their Chryslers right at 70,000 miles. When asked why (since I needle them about it), they said, so they don't have any problems with them. Sounds like denial to me...
I hear you. I am not necessarily "Pro" any brand. In fact, I was a GM Service Manager for many years. At the time (80's) they had terrible transmissions. They just got the TH400 to a point where it was pretty trouble free and they discontinued it.....Go figure.
My brother just retired from SC Johnson Wax. When he was employed, I used to purchase his vehicle when it came out of his 3-year lease. The last 2 vehicles have been Chrysler products and I have been pleasantly surprised. Before my 2001 Concorde, I had a 1996 Dodge Intrepid and I (we) put over 200K on that thing and it ran like new the day I sold it. It still had the original spark plugs. All I did was change fluids, tires & brakes. I took the plugs out a few times, to replace them, and put them right back in. They were like new, not even a speck of soot. I was amazed at that vehicle. So far, my Concorde has been the same.
Am I a Chrysler supporter.....no. I just think that manufacturers (in general) are building cars better than they used to. The Japanese manufacturers have put a lot of pressure on the US to do better. We got spoiled and lazy. That's the bottom line. My hope is that the US manufacturers will wake up before Japan becomes the only builders of automobiles.
Actually, what the Japanese automakers do better than us is concentrate on customer service. If something does go wrong, they do a better job of making it right than we do. That is where Honda really excels in the market place.
I was Service Manager for a Pontiac/Honda store in Covina many years ago. There was an amazing difference between the way the customer was treated when I compared the 2 manufacturers. In fact, that's one of the reasons I got out of the business. GM was so full of "Fat cats" that they refused to change. It took a lot longer than I thought but GM may be paying the ultimate price soon. The fact is, most of GMs income has come from selling assets over the last 20 years. They had a LOT of assets. Not anymore.
Quote from: waveryI hear you. I am not necessarily "Pro" any brand. In fact, I was a GM Service Manager for many years. At the time (80's) they had terrible transmissions. They just got the TH400 to a point where it was pretty trouble free and they discontinued it.....Go figure.
My brother just retired from SC Johnson Wax. When he was employed, I used to purchase his vehicle when it came out of his 3-year lease. The last 2 vehicles have been Chrysler products and I have been pleasantly surprised. Before my 2001 Concorde, I had a 1996 Dodge Intrepid and I (we) put over 200K on that thing and it ran like new the day I sold it. It still had the original spark plugs. All I did was change fluids, tires & brakes. I took the plugs out a few times, to replace them, and put them right back in. They were like new, not even a speck of soot. I was amazed at that vehicle. So far, my Concorde has been the same.
Am I a Chrysler supporter.....no. I just think that manufacturers (in general) are building cars better than they used to. The Japanese manufacturers have put a lot of pressure on the US to do better. We got spoiled and lazy. That's the bottom line. My hope is that the US manufacturers will wake up before Japan becomes the only builders of automobiles.
Actually, what the Japanese automakers do better than us is concentrate on customer service. If something does go wrong, they do a better job of making it right than we do. That is where Honda really excels in the market place.
QUOTE]
It's tough to say where a car is built, assembled, made, whatever, these days. So, GM may be US, Canadian, Japanese, Korean, German, Brazilian, and whoever else they are partnered with. Same with the others.
Ford's AXOD transaxle was the weak point in the Taurus and Windstar, and Ford got it under control. Chrysler's getting better, no doubt, but I think the Mercedes merger did nothing for MB, and everything for Chrysler.
But the Big 3 are hurting bad, and they lost the kids, who go and buy some Japanese nameplate. Now the Korean makes are doing the same thing. Long and short, once you lose the kids, you lose their market for life.
My family growing up had American cars and German cars. Japanese cars were rust buckets and known inferior products (not to mention UGLY). Japanese automakers did what all Japanese manufacturing is known for - they adjusted their product, quality, and standards; copied what worked (usually styling) and kept the fuel mileage up there, and when the '73 gas crisis came, they had a product.
I seriously doubt that the domestic brands can survive, with the kids buying largely Asian brands starting out, I don't see them buying FoMoCo, GM, or Chrysler. Maybe on the truck side, but domestically, Toyota and Nissan have given a migration path to the kids when they finally give up on the little Japanese trucks and want something full-size. Even Honda is somewhat in the market there, and I think the Ridgeline was designed as a Honda Avalanche without the midgate.
My most devout once only-Chevy friend now has two Hondas, and is going to replace his Tahoe with a Pilot. He said he was tired of the Detroit automakers building an inferior truck, charging $40-50,000 for it, and expecting him to be buying another in a few years. And a neighbor of ours got rid of everything domestic at one shot and now has five Hondas in the driveway.