O.K., I admit it; I'm usually about the last to get the word on most things, but today takes the cake!
Go to my friendly GM dealer for an oil change (for sure, a super good car dealer, Bell & Bell Pontiac/GMC, Little River, SC) - they do good work, it's moderately priced and they keep you posted on the latest thing. When I showed up for the usual oil change today they told me they just got all the necessary equipment in for tires; they plan to stock some brands and really push for their customer's replacement tire business. Just so happened last month I bought a new set of Coopers ... they said that's good, but what I should do is at least fill them with nitrogen in place of the air that was in them. Told them I had never heard of such a thing but they countered that was what aircraft tires use. And, they claim:
Nitrogen maintains tire pressure better, keeps tires cooler, prolongs the life of the tire and the vehicle will use less fuel. They also said that "tests" have shown nitrigen improves handling and performance, especially in the rain.
Here's the deal ... If I fill my tires with their nitrogen ($5.00) a tire and I get somewhere and need to put in more air (can do so even with the nitrogen in the tire), or have a flat and have to have the tire repaired and re-filled with air, just to bring the repaired tire with air in it and they will replace the air with new nitrogen at no cost. In other words, they will maintain the nitrogen for the life of the tire.
So, I now have (4) tires presently filled filled with nitrogen (did'nt do the spare), and since I keep an ongoing log on gas mileage, will keep everybody posted as to what's happening!
Fly
Quote from: flyfishermanO.K., I admit it; I'm usually about the last to get the word on most things, but today takes the cake!
Go to my friendly GM dealer for an oil change (for sure, a super good car dealer, Bell & Bell Pontiac/GMC, Little River, SC) - they do good work, it's moderately priced and they keep you posted on the latest thing. When I showed up for the usual oil change today they told me they just got all the necessary equipment in for tires; they plan to stock some brands and really push for their customer's replacement tire business. Just so happened last month I bought a new set of Coopers ... they said that's good, but what I should do is at least fill them with nitrogen in place of the air that was in them. Told them I had never heard of such a thing but they countered that was what aircraft tires use. And, they claim:
Nitrogen maintains tire pressure better, keeps tires cooler, prolongs the life of the tire and the vehicle will use less fuel. They also said that "tests" have shown nitrigen improves handling and performance, especially in the rain.
Here's the deal ... If I fill my tires with their nitrogen ($5.00) a tire and I get somewhere and need to put in more air (can do so even with the nitrogen in the tire), or have a flat and have to have the tire repaired and re-filled with air, just to bring the repaired tire with air in it and they will replace the air with new nitrogen at no cost. In other words, they will maintain the nitrogen for the life of the tire.
So, I now have (4) tires presently filled filled with nitrogen (did'nt do the spare), and since I keep an ongoing log on gas mileage, will keep everybody posted as to what's happening!
Fly
here are some links I found
http://www.automotive.com/features/90/auto-news/14858/index.htmlhttp://www.komotv.com/news/consumer/4526971.htmlreminds me of when I was a teenager when I worked in a gas station (back in the dark ages) when they still had a full service Island. I used to mess with peoples minds.. the :confused: look I would get was great when they would come in and ask me to fill their tires I would ask "with regular or premium air"
Quote from: flyfishermanJust so happened last month I bought a new set of Coopers ... they said that's good, but what I should do is at least fill them with nitrogen in place of the air that was in them.
What they didn't tell you was that almost 80% of that air is um, nitrogen.
QuoteTold them I had never heard of such a thing but they countered that was what aircraft tires use.
Um, certain high-pressure military aircraft tires are filled with nitrogen. The intent is to make sure they do not burn on the inside. If you go to any airport, find the FBO, and ask about nitrogen in tires, he'll fall on the floor laughing.
QuoteAnd, they claim:
Nitrogen maintains tire pressure better,
Really makes no difference. Since nitrogen is smaller than oxygen, (atomic numbers are 7 for N, 8 for O), and oxygen in air is found as a molecule (O2), it would be much easier for the nitrogen to bleed out than the oxygen.
Quotekeeps tires cooler,
Only if you are landing aircraft on a carrier. Nitrogen absorbs slightly more heat than air, but once it is heated, it is heated. A few miles down the road and there's no difference. Nitrogen makes absolutely no difference in how much heat is generated in the first place.
Quoteprolongs the life of the tire and the vehicle will use less fuel. They also said that "tests" have shown nitrigen improves handling and performance, especially in the rain.
Did you ask for documentation?
QuoteHere's the deal ... If I fill my tires with their nitrogen ($5.00) a tire and I get somewhere and need to put in more air (can do so even with the nitrogen in the tire), or have a flat and have to have the tire repaired and re-filled with air, just to bring the repaired tire with air in it and they will replace the air with new nitrogen at no cost. In other words, they will maintain the nitrogen for the life of the tire.
So, I now have (4) tires presently filled filled with nitrogen (did'nt do the spare), and since I keep an ongoing log on gas mileage, will keep everybody posted as to what's happening!
I had someone try to sell me this line. Their poster sounded like the ads I see in old newspapers for things like Jone's Powder, which cures catars of the stomach, relieves the discomfort of rheumatism, prevents and relieves the embarrasing sag of the aging bossom, removes years from a woman's face, cures headaches, restores youthful vigor, and reverses bunions. Only (half a day's pay) per bottle at your local druggist.
While I seriously doubt they ever measured anything, I also don't believe nitrogen in your tires will do any harm.
My suspicion is whoever is selling the gear (and the hype) knows this will eventually end up as a class action suit, but he will have made his fast buck and disappeared by then. Those who bought the gear will be left holding the bag.
Austin
Come on.......give 'em a break....they're a GM Dealer. They can't sell cars, so they have to sell something :J .
OMG.... Nitrogen in my tires......... :banghead: what next :confused:
I think my first thought would have been.......OK, if the nitrogen changes the performance in my tires, what happens if I have a flat, in the rain and I can't get to a "nitro refill" :confused: . Is my car going to go out of control because of 3 ultra-performing nitro tires and 1 under-performing air tire? If they say, "NO", then they've just discredited themselves.
Hey Fly.....I have a bridge I wanta sell ya!!!!
j/k :J
SOMEBODY.....PLEASE...stop me....open the window and let me have some....uhhhh....air :D
OK, I just did a web search on "air in tires" and was flabergasted at some of the claims.
"nitrogen is denser than air" - utter rubbish. If that was true, all of our oxygen would rise in the atmosphere and we would suffocate on pure nitrogen.
"nitrogen bleeds out 3 times slower than air" - since air is 78% nitrogen, that means the oxygen would have to bleed out nearly 14 times faster than nitrogen. But, uh, the oxygen molecules are bigger.
"prevents tire explosion in a crash" - pressurized gas is pressurized gas. As long as you are not in the condensation area for the gas (something that requires either pressures that no tire would hold or temperatures that would cause tires to shatter with either nitrogen or oxygen), all gasses behave the same with regard to pressure and temperature changes. This is basic high school physics. The implication is that the oxygen in the tire causes the explosion, but that is simply not the case.
"By reducing the percentage of oxygen, water vapor and other gases in your tires from 22% to 7% or lower, your tires will maintain proper pressure longer than if you use
Quote from: AustinBostonWhat they didn't tell you was that almost 80% of that air is um, nitrogen.
(Yes they did ... 78%)
Really makes no difference. Since nitrogen is smaller than oxygen, (atomic numbers are 7 for N, 8 for O), and oxygen in air is found as a molecule (O2), it would be much easier for the nitrogen to bleed out than the oxygen.
(They're saying just the opposite ... harder for the nitrogen to escape.)
Only if you are landing aircraft on a carrier. Nitrogen absorbs slightly more heat than air, but once it is heated, it is heated. A few miles down the road and there's no difference. Nitrogen makes absolutely no difference in how much heat is generated in the first place.
(Again, they are saying just the opposite ... runs 20% cooler. By the way, have you ever landed an aircraft on a carrier? Just wondering what your experience was with aircraft.)
Did you ask for documentation?
(Of course ... and it's partial to the nitrogen related industry promoting this idea, would you expect anything less?)
http://getnitrogen.org/
While I seriously doubt they ever measured anything, I also don't believe nitrogen in your tires will do any harm.
(For twenty bucks it's worth it to me to see if there's any merit to it - and I'll know after some actual "down-the road" experience, which will probably not be too long from now)
Now I'm gonna have night-mares :yikes: ......THANX Fly........... :J
I remember the day (not all that long ago) when we paid $.25 a gallon for gas. While the ATTENDANT filled my tank, he checked my oil, water and air in my tires. If my tires were low, he'd fill 'em at NO CHARGE!!!!!
Now, we go to a gas station, we pay $2.50 a gallon (10 x as much), WE pump the gas ourselves and no one checks or does anything. They don't even take my $. I have to use a credit card, which I swipe myself.
Oh ya!!! If I want AIR......I gotta pull the car over to the air-pump and pay $.50 for the use of the pump and if I need a gage to check the pressure......they'll sell me one.
God forbid that stations will put in Nitrogen pumps for your tires.......TRUST ME....if they do, the "Air-pumps" will soon be a thing of the past......like $.25 gas and all that service.:D
Quote from: waveryHey Fly.....I have a bridge I wanta sell ya :D
Well, ahhhh, howmuchdoyouwantforit?
Fly
p.s. See, that's the difference between me and you and OLD Austy Bosty ... for a $20.00 dollar bill I'll invest in some actual experience and come out with actual results. Won't have to do a "Google" to come up with some hair-brained, pseudo-intellectual jargon, with -0- experience to back it up! Besides, I think that cold out there has effected your "contempt prior to investigation" thought patterns.
I hear ya!!
I just choose to use that $20 bill a little differently.
I'll put it aside for an additional camp-out this year. I don't have that many years left to make that choice, so that choice becomes more critical each year. ;)
I suppose that if people like me were to laugh off new ideas, over the years, we'd still be riding horses and camping in tents. :D
Quote from: waveryNow I'm gonna have night-mares :yikes: ......THANX Fly........... :J
I remember the day (not all that long ago) when we paid $.25 a gallon for gas. While the ATTENDANT filled my tank, he checked my oil, water and air in my tires. If my tires were low, he'd fill 'em at NO CHARGE!!!!!
Now, we go to a gas station, we pay $2.50 a gallon (10 x as much), WE pump the gas ourselves and no one checks or does anything. They don't even take my $. I have to use a credit card, which I swipe myself.
Oh ya!!! If I want AIR......I gotta pull the car over to the air-pump and pay $.50 for the use of the pump and if I need a gage to check the pressure......they'll sell me one.
God forbid that stations will put in Nitrogen pumps for your tires.......TRUST ME....if they do, the "Air-pumps" will soon be a thing of the past......like $.25 gas and all that service.:D
Hey ... you ain't gotta patent on all those memories! I very well remember when my Dad bought over 8 GALLONS of gasoline for a buck to put into his brand new 1939 Chevrolet! Also, sure hate to throw some cold water on your air comressor thoughts ... but I understand there are now nitrogen compressors available - that could very well mean all those .50 cent compressors could be replaced with $3.00 nitrogen ones! What another capitalistic money making idea!
Quote from: flyfishermanHey ... you ain't gotta patent on all those memories! I very well remember when my Dad bought over 8 GALLONS of gasoline to put into his brand new 1939 Chevrolet! Also, sure hate to throw some cold water on your air comressor thoughts ... but I understand there are now nitrogen compressors available - that could very well mean all those .50 cent compressors could be replaced with $3.00 nitrogen ones! What another capitalistic money making idea![/QUOTE]
Welcome to the good old USofA. :D :U
I'll bet the pumps are made in China :J
This was hashed and rehashed on the SunnyBrook board I frequent, last year. They went back and forth just like we have done so far.
I have a BS in chemistry. I have a PhD in reading camping message boards.
I'm sticking with air.
Larry
"I remember the day (not all that long ago) when we paid $.25 a gallon for gas. While the ATTENDANT filled my tank, he checked my oil, water and air in my tires. If my tires were low, he'd fill 'em at NO CHARGE!!!!!"
Gee, Wavery, maybe I serviced your car when I was a kid and I got $1.00 an hour for my labor. :) You forgot to mention that I also washed your windshield and if the promotion was right, you got a free glass.
Also, I think you are slipping as far as "not a long time ago" was. I think about 40 years ago. :)
I believe one of the big tire chain outfits use the nitrogen gas also. I think it is Tire Warehouse.
so do you want regular or premium air??? :J
sometimes you boys just kill me ;) :D
Quote from: GeneF"I remember the day (not all that long ago) when we paid $.25 a gallon for gas. While the ATTENDANT filled my tank, he checked my oil, water and air in my tires. If my tires were low, he'd fill 'em at NO CHARGE!!!!!"
Gee, Wavery, maybe I serviced your car when I was a kid and I got $1.00 an hour for my labor. :) You forgot to mention that I also washed your windshield and if the promotion was right, you got a free glass.
Also, I think you are slipping as far as "not a long time ago" was. I think about 40 years ago. :)
I believe one of the big tire chain outfits use the nitrogen gas also. I think it is Tire Warehouse.
Hey.....40 years is nothing. Man has been around for millions of years. 40 years....that's a heartbeat in time. ;)
I made a $1.25 pumping gas. You should've pushed for a raise :D I forgot about washing your W/S.
OK, so now gas is $2.50 (10 x 40 years ago) and minimum wage is $7 (5 x 40 years ago). We're still getting the shaft. we won't even talk about oil company profits. Want a bet who is backing this "Nitrogen in the tires" scheme?
Quote from: waveryWant a bet who is backing this "Nitrogen in the tires" scheme?
Gee, Suzy.
Not George Bush again. I hope.
Quote from: chipGee, Suzy.
Not George Bush again. I hope.
LOL...
While I do think there is probably some benefit to using nitrogen tires, I doubt there is enough of a difference to make the extra cost worth it.
What I find funny is this pops up on pretty much every board related to anything with tires every so often.
Let's see...ambient air is 78% nitrogen, 20% oxygen. Could that be close enough to N2O? That really starts making this thread, lol, funny. Sorry, lol, I can't, lol, help my self. HaHaHaHa lol HaHa lol LOL HAHA ROFL... This is the happiest thread I've seen in a long time!
Dihydrogen monoxide. AB, that was pretty good!
Quote from: dthurkLet's see...ambient air is 78% nitrogen, 20% oxygen. Could that be close enough to N2O? That really starts making this thread, lol, funny. Sorry, lol, I can't, lol, help my self. HaHaHaHa lol HaHa lol LOL HAHA ROFL... This is the happiest thread I've seen in a long time!
Dihydrogen monoxide. AB, that was pretty good!
Actually the correct terminology is:
SNAKE OIL!!! :J
Quote from: dthurkDihydrogen monoxide. AB, that was pretty good!
Well, I'm glad somebody got the joke! :p
Austin
Quote from: AustinBostonWell, I'm glad somebody got the joke! :p
Austin
Wonder how many get mine?
Quote from: chipGee, Suzy.
Not George Bush again. I hope.
Nope, It's Al Gore.......
Quote from: dthurkWonder how many get mine?
Well, he-he, ho, um, hee-hee-he, om, I'm getting sleepy, he-hee...
Austin
Ok I didn't research this at all. I was under the impression that nitrogen expands and contracts less due to temperature changes and this would keep the pressure more consistent on 100 days and -20 mornings.
Is this not the point of using nitrogen?
I figure helium would work better and my truck would be lighter and that would give me better mileage.
TIme to do the research. N2 & O2 as well as CO2 all respond to Boyle's law as far as expansion/pressure are concerned.
The reasons Nascar uses DRY nitrogen are Dry nitrogen does not contain water vapor so the amount of expansion Due to the heating of the tires is constant. Not less, or more, constant. Next is since they have to use bottle gas in the pits they might as well use something that will reduce the variables on the car. When you are talking 1/2 pound increments in static tire pressure any moisture in the form of water vapor would add a non controlled variable. With millions at stake every weekend they race they can afford to use Dry N2 to reduce a chance of something going wrong.
So unless you intend to land your RV at several hundred miles an hour, feel the need to correct your tire pressures to less than 1 PSI differnece at speed; or turn left for several hours with a big pot of money at stake there's not much reason to pay to have something pumped into your tires that basically won't do anything but make you think your getting something.
SNAKE OIL!!!
:J
Quote from: waverySNAKE OIL!!!
:J
Some people don't know how to have fun. :mad:
C'mon Wavery...AB's all wet and I'm a gas. :-()
Join the party!!!!
(Sorry to be hijacking the thread, just can't resist.)
Actually, I agree with mike4947, there's probably so little for us to gain it wouldn't be worth the money and extra effort to gas up our tires.
Quote from: dthurkto gas up our tires.
You put GASOLINE in your tires?;) :eyecrazy:
We use dry nitrogen as a purge gas when performing high temperature bake storage on some of the semiconductors we make. The dry nitrogen has no oxygen or moisture and this prevents oxidization from occurring. Oxidation isn't the failure mechanism we are looking for with this stress so it does not matter.
I guess the absence of moisture and oxygen should have some benefits to the rim and possibly the rubber, not sure about the rubber though.
Plan to do an ongoing follow-up on this subject and that will start this weekend. Just by mere coincidence, a friend just bought a get-away lake house over in South Carolina and I drove over there last weekend to help him out on a couple of chores. One thing I do with some consistency is keep a gas mileage log. Gas is cheaper in South Carolina, so I topped off the tank in Myrtle Beach and drove to my buddy's place and on the way back, topped off the tank at the same place.
Just so happens I'll be going back this weekend and I'm going to do the same thing, fill up at the same place and top off again on the return trip. So the first phase of the test will begin and we'll see about improving the gas mileage.
Fly
Can I throw another nut into the bowl?
I have been putting eather in truck tires off and on starting 'bout '74! Last month that saved me at least $160.00
Quote from: tlhdocYou put GASOLINE in your tires?;) :eyecrazy:
Now there's an idea!!! How much would a tire hold? With a tandem axle camper, we might get and extra 80 gallons!
Quote from: dthurkNow there's an idea!!! How much would a tire hold? With a tandem axle camper, we might get and extra 80 gallons!
Blow outs (ups?) would be interesting...
Quote from: chipBlow outs (ups?) would be interesting...
Blow outs? Can you imagine the tire guy dismounting a tire??
I know a lot of people put antifreeze into their tractor tires (for weight, and no, I am not kidding) for field work and for snow plowing. At least that won't destroy the tire, but I suspect it wouldn't work too well for balancing...
BTW, the first time I heard about this, I thought they were pulling my leg.
Quote from: wynotI know a lot of people put antifreeze into their tractor tires (for weight, and no, I am not kidding) for field work and for snow plowing. At least that won't destroy the tire, but I suspect it wouldn't work too well for balancing...
Balancing isn't relevant with low-speed tires like on a tractor.
Austin
Good thing 007, James Bond didn't use N2 in his tires! I remember one movie (can't recall the name) where his car went into the water. He sucked the air out of the tire while waiting for the bad guy's to go away. Guess the movie would have ended right there with nitrogen!
I'm willing to wait and hear Fly's "real world" experience with this experiment and see what he reports back. Much more valuable than conjecture and theory!
One of the things touched on was moisture. Here in the south in the summer, humidity levels tend to be a tad high. This increases the moisture in the air and, if the air compressor doesn't have a water seperator, will pass right on into the tire. A very small amount of water shouldn't be a problem but what if it's a greater amount? I have no clue.