I just bought a friction sway control (Draw-Tite) for our new pop up and I have heard that you shouldn't back up with the sway control attached. I understand turning too tight can cause harm, but what difference is there between moving forward or backward? Anyone get into trouble with tight turns (going forward....er uh backward?)
Quote from: BDKI just bought a friction sway control (Draw-Tite) for our new pop up and I have heard that you shouldn't back up with the sway control attached. I understand turning too tight can cause harm, but what difference is there between moving forward or backward? Anyone get into trouble with tight turns (going forward....er uh backward?)
You heard correct. Do not back up with the friction sway attached. Something will bend. A friend of mine tried backing with his sway bar on and damaged his hitch.:)
Quote from: BDKI just bought a friction sway control (Draw-Tite) for our new pop up and I have heard that you shouldn't back up with the sway control attached. I understand turning too tight can cause harm, but what difference is there between moving forward or backward? Anyone get into trouble with tight turns (going forward....er uh backward?)
Think of the sway bar as a tow rope. It is meant for pulling only. If you push with it (back-up) it will bend.
When going foward the two pieces of the control pull apart, so the worst that would happen in they would seperate. In backing the pieces telescope into each other and can bottom out. When that happens something has to give.
It's better to take the time to disconnect it every time. You never know when you're going to need to jack knife the trailer to get into a spot and trust me that's just when you forget about the sway control...LOL
We were told to always disconnect ours before backing up--even if going straight back. For the few extra seconds it takes to remove the sway bar, why take a chance?
Quote from: BDKI just bought a friction sway control (Draw-Tite) for our new pop up and I have heard that you shouldn't back up with the sway control attached. I understand turning too tight can cause harm, but what difference is there between moving forward or backward? Anyone get into trouble with tight turns (going forward....er uh backward?)
We don't use a sway bar any more (our WDH has a sway mechanism built-in), but we did for our first season. Despite what has been said here, there is no real difference between going forward and going backwards with a sway bar.
BUT...there may be a perceptual difference. Depending on your backing style, a turn may look like less of a turn when backing than when going forward. And, because of the way turns happen when backing, a damage-causing turn will happen much faster and much easier when backing than going forward.
You have to remove the sway bar.
Why not remove it before backing? For a variety of reasons (especially safety), the driver really should get out and look at the space they are backing into before doing so. It only takes a moment to remove the sway bar at the same time.
Austin
Quote from: AustinBostonWe don't use a sway bar any more (our WDH has a sway mechanism built-in), but we did for our first season. Despite what has been said here, there is no real difference between going forward and going backwards with a sway bar.
BUT...there may be a perceptual difference. Depending on your backing style, a turn may look like less of a turn when backing than when going forward. And, because of the way turns happen when backing, a damage-causing turn will happen much faster and much easier when backing than going forward.
You have to remove the sway bar. Why not remove it before backing? For a variety of reasons (especially safety), the driver really should get out and look at the space they are backing into before doing so. It only takes a moment to remove the sway bar at the same time.
Austin
My brother forgot to remove his sway bar, last year, while backing his TT into a spot. The sway bar bent bad enough that it coudn't be used again.
You can jack knife backing up, never seen it done while DRIVING forward. That is the reason to disconnect prior to backing up.
That perceptual difference is more than perceptual.;)
Quote from: waveryThink of the sway bar as a tow rope. It is meant for pulling only. If you push with it (back-up) it will bend.
The purpose of a sway bar is to dampen unwanted side-to-side movements of the trailer. In order to do so, it applies a resistive force to all turns, but does nothing during straight-line movement. All sway control devices, whether a sway bar, dual-cam sway control, or a few bizzare other types I have seen, work this way.
A sway bar is nothing but a linear brake. The braking action is only relevant when something (changing the angle between the tow vehicle and trailer is the only thing unless it is installed incorrectly) causes it to slide in & out. When moving forward
or backward in a straight line, all of the energy is transferred between the vehicles through the hitch ball, none throuth the sway bar.
The sway bar (if it works) applies exactly the same forces when towing forward as "towing" backwards - zero.
The only time a sway bar applies any force at all is
during a change in the angle between the tow vehicle and the trailer. If the angle does not change, (such as would happen when going in a straight line or going around in consistent circles), then the sway bar applies no force at all in either direction.
The following assumes the sway bar is mounted on the right (passenger) side and moving forward:
* When the tow vehicle turns to the right, the sway bar contracts and pushes the tow vehicle during the process.
* When it straightens again, it pulls on the tow vehicle with the same forces.
* When the tow vehicle turns to the left, the sway bar lengthens and pulls the tow vehicle during the process.
* When it straightens again, it pushes on the tow vehicle with the same forces.
* These forces serve to dampen sway beacause they apply the forces to the right side of the hitch.
(Reverse left/right above if your sway bar is mounted on the left/drivers side.)
If the sway bar did not work equally in either direction, it would only be able to dampen sway in one direction.
QuoteMy brother forgot to remove his sway bar, last year, while backing his TT into a spot. The sway bar bent bad enough that it coudn't be used again.
Either:
1) it made contact with the hitch during a turn or
2) it over-extended during a turn and could not properly contract.
3) it over-contracted during a turn and was damaged as a result.
In any case, it was damaged by a turn, perhaps a turn while backing, but not by backing up itself.
BTW, either of these is much more likely while backing than while going forward.
Austin
Quote from: chasd60You can jack knife backing up, never seen it done while DRIVING forward. That is the reason to disconnect prior to backing up.
That perceptual difference is more than perceptual.;)
That depends on the relationship between tow vehicle wheelbase and hitch-to-trailer axle length. With shorter tow vehicles and longer trailers, it is easy to jacknife going forward. I do it twice every time we hook up when attaching the WDH. I swing to a point that would most definitely have damaged my old sway bar.
Austin
Friendly owner of a campground was guiding me onto the site. This was with my Sienna and Mesa. I left the sway bar on. I noticed the owner kind of disappeared after he had me jacknifed.
After getting into the site, I noticed a nice dent in the bumper that the sway bar had put there. Sway bar was fine.
Quote from: GeneFFriendly owner of a campground was guiding me onto the site. This was with my Sienna and Mesa. I left the sway bar on. I noticed the owner kind of disappeared after he had me jacknifed.
After getting into the site, I noticed a nice dent in the bumper that the sway bar had put there. Sway bar was fine.
Maybe that's the problem...tougher $100 swaybars so that $1500 bumpers get wrecked instead of the $100 swaybar! :yikes:
Austin
QuoteIn any case, it was damaged by a turn, perhaps a turn while backing, but not by backing up itself.
That's like saying that falling off a building doesn't kill you, it's the sudden stop at the bottom. :eyecrazy:
Yes, you are correct, however, when moving forward, the weight of the trailer causes it to move back in line with the TV because the trailer is being pulled. But when backing, the normal action of the trailer is to move to one side or the other, not to stay in line with the TV. That's the reason that backing up does no apply the same forces to the anti-sway device as it is moving forward.
Quote from: AustinBostonThe purpose of a sway bar is to dampen unwanted side-to-side movements of the trailer. In order to do so, it applies a resistive force to all turns, but does nothing during straight-line movement. All sway control devices, whether a sway bar, dual-cam sway control, or a few bizzare other types I have seen, work this way.
A sway bar is nothing but a linear brake. The braking action is only relevant when something (changing the angle between the tow vehicle and trailer is the only thing unless it is installed incorrectly) causes it to slide in & out. When moving forward or backward in a straight line, all of the energy is transferred between the vehicles through the hitch ball, none throuth the sway bar.
The sway bar (if it works) applies exactly the same forces when towing forward as "towing" backwards - zero.
The only time a sway bar applies any force at all is during a change in the angle between the tow vehicle and the trailer. If the angle does not change, (such as would happen when going in a straight line or going around in consistent circles), then the sway bar applies no force at all in either direction.
The following assumes the sway bar is mounted on the right (passenger) side and moving forward:
* When the tow vehicle turns to the right, the sway bar contracts and pushes the tow vehicle during the process.
* When it straightens again, it pulls on the tow vehicle with the same forces.
* When the tow vehicle turns to the left, the sway bar lengthens and pulls the tow vehicle during the process.
* When it straightens again, it pushes on the tow vehicle with the same forces.
* These forces serve to dampen sway beacause they apply the forces to the right side of the hitch.
(Reverse left/right above if your sway bar is mounted on the left/drivers side.)
If the sway bar did not work equally in either direction, it would only be able to dampen sway in one direction.
Either:
1) it made contact with the hitch during a turn or
2) it over-extended during a turn and could not properly contract.
3) it over-contracted during a turn and was damaged as a result.
In any case, it was damaged by a turn, perhaps a turn while backing, but not by backing up itself.
BTW, either of these is much more likely while backing than while going forward.
Austin
Austin,
I'll be taking the anti sway bar off when backing, but what is your opinion of a direct right or left turn 90Deg...say turning into a side street? Do they handle that OK? I suppose I just need to watch the first time to be sure.
Quote from: BDKAustin,
I'll be taking the anti sway bar off when backing, but what is your opinion of a direct right or left turn 90Deg...say turning into a side street? Do they handle that OK? I suppose I just need to watch the first time to be sure.
Generally, you should be turning wider with a trailer than you might without. The trailer always tracks inside the turn from the tow vehicle, so if the tow vehicle just misses the curb, the trailer will probably hop the curb.
If you turn wide enough so that the trailer does not go places it should not, you should be fine. While I have seen places where it might be a problem, those would be places I would not be taking a trailer. (The narrow streets of South Boston come to mind).
Austin
Quote from: fritz_monroeThat's like saying that falling off a building doesn't kill you, it's the sudden stop at the bottom. :eyecrazy:
Yes, you are correct, however, when moving forward, the weight of the trailer causes it to move back in line with the TV because the trailer is being pulled. But when backing, the normal action of the trailer is to move to one side or the other, not to stay in line with the TV. That's the reason that backing up does no apply the same forces to the anti-sway device as it is moving forward.
This whole sub-topic started with the advice to remove the swaybar when backing, even when backing in a straight line. I can back in a straight line fine..., uh..., usually. That is why the sway bar should be removed before backing.
Austin
I can see your view. I have backed in a straight line with the anti-sway device in place. But for me, and probably a lot of others, the biggest reason to take that device off every time I back up is so I don't forget to do it some time when I do need to back into a space.
When I get home, I have to make a 90 degree turn backing up to get the pup in it's space. When I turn onto my street, I pull over, take off the anti-sway and put that in the front trunk and take the chocks out of the front trunk. It's part of my routine. I do it every single time. The one time I wouldn't remember to do this routine, I'd back sharply into the space and ruin that anti-sway.
It's just a lot easier to get in the habit of taking it off when backing than it is to think about it each time and decide if it needs to come off or not.
Quote from: waveryThink of the sway bar as a tow rope. It is meant for pulling only. If you push with it (back-up) it will bend.
That is actually a very incorrect statement. The sway bar does not "care" which way it the vehicle is moving.
When turning left, the sway bar extends (pull out). When turning right, the sway bar contracts (pushed in).
It does not matter if you are going forwards or backwards -- the physical force imparted onto the sway bar is the same. It both pulls out and pushes in when the vehicle is both going forwards and when it is going backwards.
Jack-knifing is the only valid reason for disconnecting the sway bar.
Quote from: AustinBostonGenerally, you should be turning wider with a trailer than you might without. The trailer always tracks inside the turn from the tow vehicle, so if the tow vehicle just misses the curb, the trailer will probably hop the curb.
If you turn wide enough so that the trailer does not go places it should not, you should be fine. While I have seen places where it might be a problem, those would be places I would not be taking a trailer. (The narrow streets of South Boston come to mind).
Austin
Good deal...thanks for your help, and happy camping!
The key (according to the sway bar manufacturers) is to see just how tight a turn you can make backing up to determine whether or not to disconnect. I found the perception of a tight jackknife turn to be far worse than the actual amount of movement on the sway bar. In other words, I would move forward and start over again, LONG before I got in a situation, which would damage the bar.
Their printed recommendation was to back up slowly into an ever increasing turn in both directions to find out whether or not the bar needed to be removed. I found that I could put this bar into a much tighter turn than I would ever let happen when backing.
Unless I am backing into a very tight hard turn space, I leave the bar attached (but loosened). I very rarely remove the sway bar to back into a site. So far, this bar has made it through 6 seasons without a bend, without damaging the ball mounts or anything else. Doesn't mean I won't but haven't had to yet.
Caveat emptor.
I never take mine off . I've loosened it but not taken it off.. shoot now I can't remember if the dealer told me to take it off or loosen it...stinks getting old :eyecrazy:
Here's why you shouldn't back up with the sway bar attached.
We had to turn around on a two lane road because of an accident ahead. The policeman guided us, but I forgot about removing it first.