I have a 1994 Viking PU, I beleive it's the 1706 model. One of the plastic pulleys that operates the lift decided to give up the ghost. Besides addressing the "what genious decided a plastic pulley with a metal cable was a good idea", there are some serious other problems I'm having with Viking.
The pulleys were probably designed to wear out prior to the cable, that's fine, as long as the pulleys are readily available to replace as a standard maintanence item. There was such a demand for new pulleys, Viking ran out of the plastic ones (I'm assuming this is soon after they quit using this design).
So now...I can't get a plastic pulley. But, thanks to Viking, they come out with a small metal pulley that fit's in it's place. The problem...THEY WANT 41 DOLLARS FOR ONE PULLEY, and that is without a mark-up according to the supplier. Come on guys, surely someone from Viking reads this forum...40 freakin bucks?
If I were to change the all the poorly designed pulleys it would be a 400 dollar job!!! These pulleys are about 1" wide and about 1/2" thick. Does that really sound reasonable to ANYONE?
I'm all for capitalism, Viking should not be forced to sell the pulley for a lower price than they want to...it's all about supply and demand. But there is something to be said for reasonable customer service, as well as Viking sucking up some of the cost for their poor design.
I guess my whole point is...if you are looking at buying a Viking, keep in mind that you will get little to no support from the manufacturer, and from my experience, they will try to take advantage of you where ever they can.
Your experience is not exactly typical.
But before you get too excited, you might want to check the Viking forum (from the main Arvee page, scroll to the bottom of the first section). There was an extended discussion of a winch recall that I seem to recall had something to do with plastic parts.
They may have seen you trying to replace a winch part and did not connect that you might be able to get the whole winch for no cost.
Austin
Probably not much demand for a pulley for a 13 year old popup.
It isn't cheap to make a few at a time. I would look for an aftermarket pulley that fits or can be modified to fit.
Quote from: chasd60Probably not much demand for a pulley for a 13 year old popup.
It isn't cheap to make a few at a time. I would look for an aftermarket pulley that fits or can be modified to fit.
I would anticipate the demand would be fairly low. The point is, it's a poorly designed system and Viking sure isn't doing much to help the problem. They used this system at least up until 97, maybe further after that.
It's a very common problem, from my discussions with Camper and Recreation, Cleveland RV, and Jasper RV - all Viking dealers and parts distributors. One of the parts guys actually apologized to me about how much Viking is taking advantage of the situation.
As far as modifying it to accept a different pulley, I'm certainly more than capable of doing that. Most of life I've built custom cars/Jeeps from scratch - so the redesign will probably be way overbuilt - but is "you should be able to redneck something else in there" an adequate defense for Viking?
I think $41 might be high for a pulley, but the bottom line is if you need it you will buy it or or come up with another solution.
Not a defense for Viking but I think you can find thousands of poorly designed things out there. The manufacturer redesigns for improvement but doesn't necessarily give the redesign to all of the old owners nor do they feel they need to provide a cheap solution to owners of the older designs.
I think you will find the same results with 1000's of cars, trucks, appliances and other RV brands.
What you are experiencing is the norm not the exception.
You might find a suitable replacement pully from a McMaster's or Grainger catalog.
I noticed Viking is the main advertiser on the website, and they have their own manufacture forum. Does any of their people post here? I'm interested in getting their thoughts...
If anyone knows of someone from Viking that frequents this forum, could you please send them a link to this thread?
Thanks!!!
Quote from: Sitting BullI noticed Viking is the main advertiser on the website, and they have their own manufacture forum. Does any of their people post here? I'm interested in getting their thoughts...
If anyone knows of someone from Viking that frequents this forum, could you please send them a link to this thread?
Your pop-up is
13 years old. If someone got this upset about a $40 part for their 13-year-old car, I would say "welcome to reality." I think you've got things just a bit blown out of proportion.
Austin
Quote from: AustinBostonYour pop-up is 13 years old. If someone got this upset about a $40 part for their 13-year-old car, I would say "welcome to reality." I think you've got things just a bit blown out of proportion.
Austin
Austin,
As I stated earlier...they used this same system beyond my model year. So you would have the same problem if it were 9 years old, possibly younger.
My problem is that it's not a 40 dollar issue, there are 10 pulleys...
it's a 400 dollar issue. For the same price you can refabric half of a coleman pop-up, you can buy (10) 1" pulleys for a viking that weighs about 10 ounces total.
Look guys, I didn't come here to make a bunch of enemies, just flat out, I think this sucks. Typically, I am an extremely reasonable person. There just comes a point when something is not getting addressed properly from the factory, and I posted my complaint. If you guys really don't think this is an issue with the parts, I guess we'll just disagree what is reasonable that a company should do while it is still in business. Even the Viking parts suppliers and salesmen are apologizing for the price before they even give it to you.
New pulley for a Coleman Camper...8 bucks.
New pulley for a Viking Camper...41 dollars, and all 10 were designed to wear out.
In summary...if I were a new buyer to PU's, I would weigh the above information heavily in my decision.
The way I read it, you only have 1 bad pulley - pay the $41. and fix your camper.
Quote from: Sitting BullAustin,
As I stated earlier...they used this same system beyond my model year. So you would have the same problem if it were 9 years old, possibly younger.
If that were true, your unit would have failed four years ago.
QuoteMy problem is that it's not a 40 dollar issue, there are 10 pulleys...it's a 400 dollar issue.
All ten have failed?
QuoteIf you guys really don't think this is an issue with the parts, I guess we'll just disagree what is reasonable that a company should do while it is still in business. Even the Viking parts suppliers and salesmen are apologizing for the price before they even give it to you.
They apologized for the price, but what seem to you want is a 13 year warranty.
QuoteNew pulley for a Coleman Camper...8 bucks.
New pulley for a Viking Camper...41 dollars, and all 10 were designed to wear out.
Have they?
QuoteIn summary...if I were a new buyer to PU's, I would weigh the above information heavily in my decision.
If it's a problem to you, better not buy anything without a lifetime warranty. Good luck.
Austin
Quote from: AustinBostonIf that were true, your unit would have failed four years ago.
From what I'm hearing from the parts dealers, that seems to be a pretty common age for their lifespan. So...if you have a 1998 Viking - which most of us would consider a "newer model", you'll want to inspect them all. They will be failing soon.
Quote from: AustinBostonAll ten have failed?
Some have failed, some are failing. I get the feeling you think I'm lying to you. Do you want a picture or something? Seriously, I expressed my disatisfaction in a tasteful manner, I supported why I was dissatified with actual information and problems with my pop-up. I'm not re-hashing others problems, nor am I stated any assumptions.
Are only positive opinions allowed on this website? You seem to have taken this thread on as an attack against you, so I would like to get your response to that question. After you answer it, tell me where I was a smart-aleck, jumped down somebodies throat, etc. etc. and I'll apologize. I stated a problem I was having, and that was not happy with their service.
I have seen multiple posts of people asking "what type of pop-up should I buy". Well, if it were me, I would take this into consideration. You wouldn't?
Quote from: AustinBostonThey apologized for the price, but what seem to you want is a 13 year warranty.
I don't "seem" to want a 13 year warranty. I would like to see a reasonable price for replacement parts. Where did I mention a warranty?
Quote from: AustinBostonHave they?
Great debate. Let's ask the same question over and over again.
Quote from: AustinBostonIf it's a problem to you, better not buy anything without a lifetime warranty.
This is the smart-aleck attitude I don't understand. I never said word one about a warranty, or word one that a pop-up shouldn't require some maintanence items during it's lifespan. Anything made in the 1990's should still be well within it's anticipated lifespan, and the manufacturer should certainly still carry reasonable replacement parts for it.
Austin, please please please answer this one question...is 400 dollars a reasonable price to replace pulleys that wear out with 10 or 15 years because of an admitted design flaw? If you say yes it is, fine - we have a difference of opinion. If you say no it's not - why are you questioning everything I say?
I'm an architect. I design things for a living. When something doesn't last it's anticpated lifespan, my butt is on the line. If I were to design a connection that rusted out in 10 years because it wasn't properly flashed on my drawings, would you then defend me so fervently?
Sheesh man, your feathers get ruffled easily. IF this isn't the place to discuss what's good and what's bad about certain models of pop-ups...what forum is?
Quote from: Sitting BullSheesh man, your feathers get ruffled easily. IF this isn't the place to discuss what's good and what's bad about certain models of pop-ups...what forum is?
This is exactly the right place to voice both good and bad about all makes. I think I understand your frustration...you want a reasonably priced fix, not an inflated one and not a free fix.. you are venting, for 400 bucks I'd be venting too...and I was bit#%&> today to my husband about a $75 door knob for our door.
Every now and then AustinBoston gets his panties in a bunch for unknown reasons. Get out the popcorn ;)
Quote from: ForestCreatureThis is exactly the right place to voice both good and bad about all makes. I think I understand your frustration...you want a reasonably priced fix, not an inflated one and not a free fix.. you are venting, for 400 bucks I'd be venting too...and I was bit#%&> today to my husband about a $75 door knob for our door.
Every now and then AustinBoston gets his panties in a bunch for unknown reasons. Get out the popcorn ;)
Thanks for the advice then. There are a few people like that on the Jeep boards that I moderate. I'll take the high road with him from this point forward.
I have had the same problem with my pulleys! I have a 1993 Viking!I went to a Ace Hardware and bought 6 pulleys for 2.59 each. I used a drill bit and a Bench vise and made the holes a little bigger and they worked fine. These were found near where they keep the steel cable.Just use some imagination. I got to tell ya I bet you never thought you would get such crazy responses from some people. But hey maybe they woke up on the wrong side of the bed this lifetime!! Anyways good luck Let me know if you need some advice with them I will take a few pics if needed....
I have a Viking 2003, and while I haven't had any pulley problems, their service in general has been terrible - even rude when I called their headquarters.
Quote from: Sitting BullI have a 1994 Viking PU, I beleive it's the 1706 model. One of the plastic pulleys that operates the lift decided to give up the ghost. Besides addressing the "what genious decided a plastic pulley with a metal cable was a good idea", there are some serious other problems I'm having with Viking.
The pulleys were probably designed to wear out prior to the cable, that's fine, as long as the pulleys are readily available to replace as a standard maintanence item. There was such a demand for new pulleys, Viking ran out of the plastic ones (I'm assuming this is soon after they quit using this design).
So now...I can't get a plastic pulley. But, thanks to Viking, they come out with a small metal pulley that fit's in it's place. The problem...THEY WANT 41 DOLLARS FOR ONE PULLEY, and that is without a mark-up according to the supplier. Come on guys, surely someone from Viking reads this forum...40 freakin bucks?
If I were to change the all the poorly designed pulleys it would be a 400 dollar job!!! These pulleys are about 1" wide and about 1/2" thick. Does that really sound reasonable to ANYONE?
I have a Viking 2003, and while I haven't had any pulley problems, their service in general has been terrible - even rude when I called their headquarters.
I'm all for capitalism, Viking should not be forced to sell the pulley for a lower price than they want to...it's all about supply and demand. But there is something to be said for reasonable customer service, as well as Viking sucking up some of the cost for their poor design.
I guess my whole point is...if you are looking at buying a Viking, keep in mind that you will get little to no support from the manufacturer, and from my experience, they will try to take advantage of you where ever they can.
Quote from: gpn02Anyways good luck Let me know if you need some advice with them I will take a few pics if needed....
I've looked all over some pulleys that might work. I found a few that were close to the right diameter, but they were way too thick to fit into the bracket. I found another that was close in thickness, but it wasn't deep enough for two cables. Do you have a picture of the pulleys you used? The hardware stores around here just don't carry a good selection of pulleys. If I we're to send you a check first, could you purchase a few, ship them to me, so I can use them as some test subjects?
Thanks!!!
Yeah $41.00. It sucks. I feel your pain.
You mentioned in a earlier post(Earlier post. (http://www.arveeclub.com/showthread.php?t=61743)) that you bought this trailer used and that it wasn't used all that often by the previous owner.
I'm guessing one of two things happened here. The previous owner lied to you and used this trailer so often that the part wore out completely or that the unit wasn't properly maintained while in storage. You mentioned in the same post that the front didn't come down when trying to close it during the demonstration. This is when you tried to force it down to the closed position. Since the unit has been sitting for long time it is possible that it wasn't lubricated properly and that the action of trying to force it closed may have broken the part in question.
I'm not trying to justify them in charging $41.00 for a two dollar part or for using lousy parts to start with but this is something that is common practice amongst all manufacturer's. So don't just blame one of them. Blame all of them.
Sure it would be nice if things would last for ever and sure would be nice if manufacturer's would stand up to repair their mistakes. I'm guessing this won't happen. They all make mistakes, even the best of the best. I just had to replace intake manifold gaskets on two separate vehicles in the last year because the manufacturer in their wisdom decided to use plastic gaskets in order to save a few pennies. Was I pissed? You bet I was but this is the reality of the manufactured goods that we purchase.
It sucks and I really doubt that we can do anything about it.
Remember the rusty Japanese cars when they originally came over to North America or something closer to home the rusty Fords of the early 70's. If I remember correctly the Fords lasted only two years before rust would show and completely disintegrate the third year.
We all pay the price of competition.
Something worth mentioning is that Viking does have a lifetime warranty on their lift system to the original owner. I believe others have the same warranty coverage. So they do stand behind their products.
Good luck with your work.
Quote from: ranger97I have a Viking 2003, and while I haven't had any pulley problems, their service in general has been terrible - even rude when I called their headquarters.
I recall that you bought your trailer from a bank because the dealer took off and left the bank with it's inventory to sell. I'm sure you got a great deal.
So in reality you didn't purchase this trailer from a reputable dealer you bought it from a bank. A reputable dealer would of assemble and prepped this trailer properly. I don't understand why you would expect a manufacturer to back up their product if the trailer wasn't prepped by an authorized dealer. Actually your only complaint was that your trailer didn't come with a stove and they wanted $500.00 for a new one. (that really sucks one could buy a stove for their home at that price). Try buying one from any manufacturer.
Anyways
The number one thing that is posted over and over again on all of the PU forums is that if you purchase a trailer and that means any trailer (Viking, Fleetwood, Jayco whatever) be sure that you purchase it from a reputable dealer.
If you were a trailer manufacturer would you let a banker prep it, assemble it sell it and then you as a the manufacturer cover it under warranty. I don't think so. I know I wouldn't. Who knows what happened on the lot after the dealer skipped town. It really is the same as buying something from the repo man. Not really a good idea if you want something that is good and reliable.
I bought mine from a dealer. It was assembled and prepped properly. I only had one minor problem with it and they fixed everything up, couldn't be happier.
I have also written to the manufacturer on many occasions asking them questions and they have always been great. Their answers to my e-mails might not always be what I want to hear but they are being truthful and honest. What more can one ask.
Be happy that you got yourself a trailer for a great price, now its time to go out and enjoy it.
13 years for a plastic pulley seems to be a pretty good run... 'course the thing isn't used every day, probably one of the reasons Viking went with them. Their cost was less than a comprable steel one, and when it did fail, it was years past the expiration of the warranty and the unit is most likely not owned by the original purchaser, anyway. As much as it might hurt to hear it, Viking probably doesn't give a rats a$$ about your second hand purchased 13 year old pop up.
Think that is bad? I know of a manufacturer of commercial refrigeration equipment that cancels the warranty on a piece of equipment as soon as the original purchaser sell it to another. If someone purchases a entire restaurant full of less than year old equipment because the previous establishment went out of buisness, none of the warranties transfer to the new owner.
Besides, most warranties are NOT nessasaraly for the customers benefit. Manufacturers use them to basically "field test" their equipment and get failed items back to inspect so they can make nessasary changes to their products. I'm sure that Viking was pretty satisfied with the lifespan of the plastic pulleys.
It would be nice if they would sell the pulley for a reasonalble price, or maybe sell all of them as a package. I can understand that, as long as you are replacing one, you might as well replace them all. But then somebody would be complaining that they have to buy all 10 pulleys instead of one.
Allan
Quote from: Sitting BullAustin, please please please answer this one question...is 400 dollars a reasonable price to replace pulleys that wear out with 10 or 15 years because of an admitted design flaw? If you say yes it is, fine - we have a difference of opinion. If you say no it's not - why are you questioning everything I say?
I own a Coleman/Fleetwood with an ABS roof. Do a search on "ABS" and "sag" some time. So far, my roof is fine. But you have nothing to complain about. Every pop-up manufacturer - every one - doesn't care in the least about your old - yes, OLD pop-up.
QuoteI'm an architect. I design things for a living. When something doesn't last it's anticpated lifespan, my butt is on the line. If I were to design a connection that rusted out in 10 years because it wasn't properly flashed on my drawings, would you then defend me so fervently?
The lifetime of buildings is hundreds of years. But if I buy a new building, I expect to have to pay tens of thousands for a new roof in 20-30 years. Because the overall product may have a specific lifespan does not mean all of it's parts wil have that lifespan, or that expensive maintenance is not required.
We paid about 2-1/2 times as much for our van as for our pop-up. But we've paid about thirty times as much for maintenance. Should I complain about that? Is it the manufacturer's fault that engine components fail in a van that is several yearts out of waranty?
QuoteSheesh man, your feathers get ruffled easily. IF this isn't the place to discuss what's good and what's bad about certain models of pop-ups...what forum is?
You did not discuss it - you complained that other people thought you had things out of perspective. You repeatedly changed your story. Several people responded with about the same perspective - that's life. But you latched on to me because I was the "loudest."
You are welcome to participate, even complain, but statements like "
I guess my whole point is...if you are looking at buying a Viking, keep in mind that you will get little to no support from the manufacturer, and from my experience, they will try to take advantage of you where ever they can" (emphasis not added) are:
1) almost always untrue (and so you yourself proved in your original post)
2) expecting something unreasonable (that the manufacturer owns the pop-up forever)
3) designed to ruffle feathers
Austin
Quote from: ForestCreatureEvery now and then AustinBoston gets his panties in a bunch for unknown reasons. Get out the popcorn ;)
I'd love to argue with this but I'm afraid it's true.
Except...for me, it's knickers in a knot... :D
Austin
Quote from: AustinBostonExcept...for me, it's knickers in a knot... :D
Austin
Somehow...I don't quite believe that. But yes Austin, you are 100% correct, and I sincerely apologize for upsetting you with my compliant.
VIKING CAMPERS AND THEIR REPLACEMENT PART PRICES ROCK!!!
Quote from: Done WorkingYeah $41.00. It sucks. I feel your pain.
You mentioned in a earlier post(Earlier post.) that you bought this trailer used and that it wasn't used all that often by the previous owner.
I'm guessing one of two things happened here. The previous owner lied to you and used this trailer so often that the part wore out completely or that the unit wasn't properly maintained while in storage. You mentioned in the same post that the front didn't come down when trying to close it during the demonstration. This is when you tried to force it down to the closed position. Since the unit has been sitting for long time it is possible that it wasn't lubricated properly and that the action of trying to force it closed may have broken the part in question.
Yeah, you bring up a really good point. I'd be pretty sure they haven't been lubbed in a while. Is silicone the best for that?
Today I'm taking apart the bearings to regrease them, next weekend the cables should come in, then I'll address the pulleys. I need a break from the pulley situation...before the camper becomes more of a stress adder than a stress reducer. It's PERFECT camping weather in Georgia right now, my 2 and 4 year old's are really jones'in to get out there...we may just end up taking the ole reliable tent this afternoon.
The "Real" issue at hand here is the fact Viking should be doing whatever is in it's power to help this guy get what he needs! Even if it means sucking up a few dollars and charging him less for the replacement part. In this sitiuation he can deal directly with the manufactuer. This is not any of the aftermarket car parts supplier that cant change pricing on items sold to the public. It happens everyday as a buyer for a large company I am constantly making deals on products and goods that reflect direct item pricing. I often deal with manufactuers that will lower pricing on products for the sake of good cutomer relations. I have bought any number of products this way from one item to thousands. The fact is Regardless if he purchased this thing new or used it's still a Viking product and you have to stand behind your Products and services with a stiff lip. Although It is absolutely in this companys favor to step up to the plate and provide great customer service!! This is whats lacking here. It's not about the cost of the item it's about doing what alot of companys have to do to survive! Bottom Line good customer service!!
I'll go ahead and add in my view on this.
I read your initial post as you wanting them to replace the pullies basically for free. After reading through the rest, I understand your view a bit better, it doesn't have much to do with getting a free fix, but an annoyance with the design and price. I would be annoyed with the price as well. However, I'd also see it as a 13 year old popup and probably end up paying the price, complaining the entire transaction.
Also, I wouldn't consider a 9 year old camper to be a "newer" model. It's not all that old, but it's not new.
Quote from: gpn02The "Real" issue at hand here is the fact Viking should be doing whatever is in it's power to help this guy get what he needs! Even if it means sucking up a few dollars and charging him less for the replacement part. In this sitiuation he can deal directly with the manufactuer. This is not any of the aftermarket car parts supplier that cant change pricing on items sold to the public. It happens everyday as a buyer for a large company I am constantly making deals on products and goods that reflect direct item pricing. I often deal with manufactuers that will lower pricing on products for the sake of good cutomer relations. I have bought any number of products this way from one item to thousands. The fact is Regardless if he purchased this thing new or used it's still a Viking product and you have to stand behind your Products and services with a stiff lip. Although It is absolutely in this companys favor to step up to the plate and provide great customer service!! This is whats lacking here. It's not about the cost of the item it's about doing what alot of companys have to do to survive! Bottom Line good customer service!!
Viking should be doing whatever in it's power??? Where is it that they aren't?? The guy needs a pulley. Viking has the pulley to supply to him. Yes, 41 bucks seems like a lot, however, we do not know if this is an item that the dealer has to order and have shipped to him. So, the 41 bucks may include shipping and some mark up by the dealer (he's got to make some bucks, too). What would be a fair price for the pulley??
Allan
Quote from: howlinowlViking should be doing whatever in it's power???
Yes. They should make an effort to provide a replacement part and a reasonable price.
Quote from: howlinowlWhere is it that they aren't?? The guy needs a pulley. Viking has the pulley to supply to him. Yes, 41 bucks seems like a lot, however, we do not know if this is an item that the dealer has to order and have shipped to him.
At this point, the argument is just getting dumb and I refuse to keep answering the same question asked in a different manner. We're talking about a pulley that is about 1" in diameter and 1/2" in width. This would be $1.50 at the hardware store, if I shipped it to Alaska it would cost 39 cents. So, I figure a reasonable price would be 10 times the cost to make it. THAT IS A 1000% MARK-UP, and still about 1/3 of the price from the dealer.
There are two folks helping me with this off-list. Hopefully this will pan out, if not, I'm going to get them made at a local machine shop. I'll see if I can get 100 of them made and sell to the other Viking owners.
I didn't think about this before, but I recall hearing about someone that salvages camper parts. They are out of Canada, but I can't recall where exactly or the name of the place. I'm sure that someone will chime in with the name. They may have some of these pullies for a decent price. They would be used, and may not have 13 years in them, but maybe 6 to 8 years.
Quote from: ForestCreatureEvery now and then AustinBoston gets his panties in a bunch for unknown reasons. Get out the popcorn ;)
LOL, I didn't read this post until today.
My 2 cents,
I also would be upset to have to spend $41 for a pulley.:)
Quote from: AustinBostonI'd love to argue with this but I'm afraid it's true.
Except...for me, it's knickers in a knot... :D
Austin
Humm, so when do we get to see a picture of you in knickers?:D
I just paid $170.00 for a plastic water pump for my washing machine, that took the guy 3 1/2 minutes to install. So don't look this way for violins. That's life. If Viking can get 41.00 for a pulley, good for them. Anytime you have something that involves fun...it's gonna cost. Whether it's Campers, Motorcycles, boats, etc. Recreation is a big business.
As a side note, My first Pop-up was an 02 Viking and I had no problems with it.
Quote from: TheVikingI just paid $170.00 for a plastic water pump for my washing machine, that took the guy 3 1/2 minutes to install. So don't look this way for violins. That's life. If Viking can get 41.00 for a pulley, good for them. Anytime you have something that involves fun...it's gonna cost. Whether it's Campers, Motorcycles, boats, etc. Recreation is a big business.
As a side note, My first Pop-up was an 02 Viking and I had no problems with it.
Oh yeah Motorcycles. I have one of those and oh yeah they do cost a bundle to keep on the road.
Quote from: Sitting BullYes. They should make an effort to provide a replacement part and a reasonable price.
At this point, the argument is just getting dumb and I refuse to keep answering the same question asked in a different manner. We're talking about a pulley that is about 1" in diameter and 1/2" in width. This would be $1.50 at the hardware store, if I shipped it to Alaska it would cost 39 cents. So, I figure a reasonable price would be 10 times the cost to make it. THAT IS A 1000% MARK-UP, and still about 1/3 of the price from the dealer.
There are two folks helping me with this off-list. Hopefully this will pan out, if not, I'm going to get them made at a local machine shop. I'll see if I can get 100 of them made and sell to the other Viking owners.
Not really an argument, just a discussion. The other post I quoted from made it seem that Viking wasn't trying to do anything at all to help your problem. When, actually they do have the part, and are willing to sell it to you. I'm sure this isn't an "off the shelf" part that you could pick up at the hardware store for a buck and half. If so, you wouldn't be on here. Standard "off the shelf" parts come imported by the containerload. Bolts and nuts come in 55 gallon drums. By the time the distributor buys them, packages them into quantities that you and I would be willing to purchase (box of 50 to 100 or a pack of 5), the price of an individual piece (bolt or nut) has multipied many times over.
Viking may have these "built to order". In other words, they have to have someone make them. In the beginning, they may order thousands of them and have them available and manufacturing. After they no longer use the piece in manufacturing, they keep some for replacement parts. As these NOS (New Old Stock, New parts Old Stock) parts are used, they may have to order more built to keep in stock for replacement. As they no longer use them in manufacturing, they have to order in smaller quantity. The price per piece increases, as the manufaturer of the part would rather set up the machinery once and run off thousands than hundreds. Also, as the units that these parts are used in get older, the demand for replacement parts diminish. At some point, Viking may decide to stop carrying them and toss the rest of the stock, freeing up warehouse space for pieces for the newer units. Therefore, the price of the pulley may cover the cost of the discarded pieces also. All quite reaonalbe, as Viking is a for profit company.
If you do find something that works, that is great. Many classic car restorers have to have parts custom made. Some even have done the same as you and started distribution of "reproduction" parts. My 1973 Mach 1 hood has severly rusted through. I should have purchased a "NOS" hood years ago, but balked at the price wanted. Now they have all been purchased. I was entertaining purchasing a fiberglass reproduction from a company in California, but I have learned that they have some imported reproductions. I haven't purchased one yet, as some of the quality is questionable on the import parts. Years ago I replaced a rear quarter panel. Cut the old one off and the radius of the curve on the new one was to great. I had to notch the mounting flange on both sides and bend the panel to relax the curve. Got it to work, but it would be greater trouble to do a hood, with the bracing it has. I want to hear from others who have purchased one as to the fit.
I've installed a remote ice machiine in a restaurant, also. After installing the unit, attaching the remote lines and removing the panel, there is a service valve you have to open to release the refrigerant stored in the receiver to the lines and remote condenser. The valve you turn is facing into the unit. So it is a pain in the a$$ to open. If the valve had the head on the other end, it would face the open panel and be easy to open. Why didn't they put a valve like that in?? Because the one they used is a standard off the shelf part, used in thousands of other brands of ice machine, refrigeration and to order and manufacture the one opposite would have added cost. Cost that would be passed on to the customer or would have taken money off the bottom line.
I've worked in the automotive industry and the commercial refrigeration industry for number of years and I understand a bit how the parts industry works. So, I can kinda understand why the pulley cost 41 bucks. A lot of it has to do with supply and demand.
Allan
How's this for you?
Coleman/Fleetwood gives a lifetime warranty on the ABS roof for the original owner due to a known design flaw.
Sounds like this company really cares about their customers.
Oh yeah, they charge upwards of $900 for shipping...........what a bargain!!!!
Quote from: tlhdocHumm, so when do we get to see a picture of you in knickers?:D
Well, you'd have to figure out when I'm going to the next RenFair, then you'd have to figure out which one is me ;)
Austin
If anybody needs one of these, please feel free to send me a PM. I'm getting them custom for $10. Steel replica, slightly larger diameter and both cables run through the same slot - similar to the replacements that Viking is charging the astronomical fee for.
Please do not respond with even more 4 paragraph messages explaining supply vs. demand and the-more-you-buy-the-less-a-part-costs. I think we all get 8th grade economics.
$10, get them while they're hot.
WOW! What a thread.
I have a Coachmen Clipper 1285ST - identical to the Viking 2485ST with different color canvas and striping. I don't think I'll ever use it enough to wear out the lift system. I backed into a tree once and busted the tail light that cost me a few bucks to replace. Pissed me off more than anything.
Though I can feel Sittingbull's pain, there are some very good comments defending the manufacturer. I wish I could found someone to make a $10 tail light.
Bruce
Quote from: Sitting BullPlease do not respond with even more 4 paragraph messages explaining supply vs. demand and the-more-you-buy-the-less-a-part-costs. I think we all get 8th grade economics.
Glad you finally understand
Allan
Quote from: howlinowlGlad you finally understand
Allan
Yeah, isn't it amazing after all that, I can get them custom for 7 bucks a pop.
:-()
Quote from: Sitting BullIf anybody needs one of these, please feel free to send me a PM. I'm getting them custom for $10. Steel replica, slightly larger diameter and both cables run through the same slot - similar to the replacements that Viking is charging the astronomical fee for.
Please do not respond with even more 4 paragraph messages explaining supply vs. demand and the-more-you-buy-the-less-a-part-costs. I think we all get 8th grade economics.
$10, get them while they're hot.
If I went in to buy that pulley and they told me, "$41 please", I wouldn't be happy either.
I made a post early on in this thread but somehow it has disappeared. :confused: What's that all about??
Anyway, I have a lot of pulleys that I use around my apt bldg for sliding glass door rollers. If you'd give me the exact dimensions, I'd be happy to check my stock.
BTW, I would think twice about using steel pulleys. I believe that the cables are stainless steel, which is a fairly soft material. If you use steel pulleys, you may experience premature cable failure. That may be why they used plastic in the original design. You may want to consider using brass or bronze pulleys. You will also be faced with a much higher risk of rust with steel pulleys. That would really play havoc with the cables.
What you are experiencing is the "Typical" replacement parts game that you get with ANY manufacturer. I had to by an EGR valve for my wife's Camry a couple weeks ago. The dealer wanted $350. The parts house $196. Both were a rip-off. I bought a Hook & Ladder fire truck for my grandson the other day. It cost $29 and is a LOT more complex then that lousy little aluminum EGR valve that has a crummy diaphragm and one moving part :eyecrazy: . Go figure......
Don't take anything personal on this or any other board. There are all types of personalities here (and other places) some are more abrasive then others. In the end, most all are really nice people that only want to help (some just have a funny way of going about it :J ).....Sorry about the 6 paragraphs :D
Quote from: Sitting BullYeah, isn't it amazing after all that, I can get them custom for 7 bucks a pop.
:-()
And most businesses can't ship you an empty box for $7, especailly those that are not in the small-package shipping business.
Austin
Yes Austin, you are 100% correct, and I sincerely apologize for upsetting you with my compliant. I, as well, feel that $34 is a fair shipping price.
VIKING CAMPERS AND THEIR REPLACEMENT PART PRICES ROCK!!!
Quote from: waveryBTW, I would think twice about using steel pulleys. I believe that the cables are stainless steel, which is a fairly soft material. If you use steel pulleys, you may experience premature cable failure. That may be why they used plastic in the original design. You may want to consider using brass or bronze pulleys. You will also be faced with a much higher risk of rust with steel pulleys. That would really play havoc with the cables.
Thanks for the offer on the sliding door pulleys, but I'm going to give this a shot and see how long it lasts. Its my understanding that stainless steel has a higher tensile strenght than standard. In my Jeep club, we made tie rods out of stainless because of it's resistance to deflection. You gotta weld it with a really powerful TIG to get any kind of penetration. But I'll call the shop and see if they can make a brass one as well. You make a good point, thanks!
Quote from: Sitting BullThanks for the offer on the sliding door pulleys, but I'm going to give this a shot and see how long it lasts. Its my understanding that stainless steel has a higher tensile strenght than standard. In my Jeep club, we made tie rods out of stainless because of it's resistance to deflection. You gotta weld it with a really powerful TIG to get any kind of penetration. But I'll call the shop and see if they can make a brass one as well. You make a good point, thanks!
Actually, S/S has a lower tensile strength than steel. It makes good cables for the PU for the same reason that it makes good running rigging on a sailboat. It has a high amount of nickle and chromium which make it more resistant to corrosion and also make it more flexible for going over pulleys (it bends easier than steel). It is QUITE strong enough for the lifting the PU top and should last for many years if it doesn't come in contact with an abrasive surface (like rust on a pulley).
Take a look at the cables on any crane. They are ALWAYS steel (never S/S), because of the high tensile strength but they are also always covered with grease to keep down corrosion and to help them glide over the large steel pulleys (never under 4" in diameter).
A lot of people think that S/S is really hard because it is hard to drill through. Nothing can be farther from the truth. The reason that is is hard to drill through is because some of the alloy is very soft and heats up quickly. This causes the materials to harden and become brittle as they cool. When you drill it, you have to use lots of coolant and drill it in one shot without backing-off like you do with steel.
If you ever get the chance, take a 3' long piece of 1/4" steel rod and try to bend it. Then take the same length of 1/4" S/S rod and you will find that it bends quite easily.
I'm speaking strictly for myself, and not for the whole Arvee Club community.
I think I know what your real problem is...you made a bad decision by buying a busted pop-up:
http://www.arveeclub.com/showthread.php?t=61743
Now you want to blame Viking (and me, aparently), for your poor choice.
The Arvee club has over 3,000 members. I've seen a lot come and go, and I've had some verbal run-ins with a few along the way. I've said some caustic things along the way, but there have been times I have sincerely and honestly apologized. But you keep coming back and throwing your caustic attitude at...nearly everyone, especially me? You are the very first Arvee Club member who has gotten me to the point where I've thought "I don't care if I ever hear from him again."
I'm speaking strictly for myself, and not for the whole Arvee Club community.
Austin (looking for a killfile option...never needed one before)
Quote from: AustinBostonAustin (looking for a killfile option...never needed one before)
Found it. Now, instead of your noise, I just see:
This person is on your
Ignore List.
Now you can annoy everyone else without getting any grief from me.
Austin
Quote from: waveryIf you ever get the chance, take a 3' long piece of 1/4" steel rod and try to bend it. Then take the same length of 1/4" S/S rod and you will find that it bends quite easily.
Man that seems really odd. I'm not arguing with ya, it's just that a lot of the "exteme wheeling" guys make their tie-rod and draglinks out of stainless because it does not bend as easy when you hit a rock. The extreme wheelers pay very little attention to the math behind the stuff - they are solely performance based. If something isn't holding up, it always breaks down at the worst possible time.
I'll have to get on that board and see if I'm misunderstanding something. Next time I bent my tie-rod...I was going stainless...may have to rethink that.
But anyway...I guess it's onto phase 2, actually fixing the problem instead of b#8tching about it...LOL My wife is taking the kids on Saturday, so I ought to have enough time to knock this out. What is the best way to raise the PU if both back cables are broken? I was thinking I would have someone crank the winch, and I was going to try and hold up the rear while the other side went up on it's own. Can one person lift up half the weight of the roof of the pop-up? I'm a fairly strong guy - but no he-man.
Any thoughts?
Quote from: AustinBostonFound it. Now, instead of your noise, I just see:
This person is on your Ignore List.
Now you can annoy everyone else without getting any grief from me.
Austin
Yes Austin, once again you are 100% correct. I sincerely apologize for my caustic attitude and I'm thankful you will not have to put up with me anymore.
Viking campers and their replacement part prices rock!!!
Quote from: Sitting BullMan that seems really odd. I'm not arguing with ya, it's just that a lot of the "exteme wheeling" guys make their tie-rod and draglinks out of stainless because it does not bend as easy when you hit a rock. The extreme wheelers pay very little attention to the math behind the stuff - they are solely performance based. If something isn't holding up, it always breaks down at the worst possible time.
I'll have to get on that board and see if I'm misunderstanding something. Next time I bent my tie-rod...I was going stainless...may have to rethink that.
But anyway...I guess it's onto phase 2, actually fixing the problem instead of b#8tching about it...LOL My wife is taking the kids on Saturday, so I ought to have enough time to knock this out. What is the best way to raise the PU if both back cables are broken? I was thinking I would have someone crank the winch, and I was going to try and hold up the rear while the other side went up on it's own. Can one person lift up half the weight of the roof of the pop-up? I'm a fairly strong guy - but no he-man.
Any thoughts?
I think that it may boil down to...."Shiney sells" :sombraro:
I'm sure that you've heard the old saying...."If it don't go....chrome it" :J
I'm a little surprised that someone isn't making titanium tie rods. Nothing stronger and you cant bend it. The thing is... a lot of stuff is designed to fail as apposed to breaking a more important attaching part. For instance, it may be better to bend a tie rod than to brake the spindle that it is attached to. Often times, over building something leads to the demise of another adjacent part. The other thing is, S/S will bend (but stay together) when cold or even tempered steel may break.
As for lifting the top......
If you don't have A/C, 1 or 2 people should be able to lift one side, then place a couple of 2x4s under it.
Quote from: waveryI think that it may boil down to...."Shiney sells" :sombraro:
I'm sure that you've heard the old saying...."If it don't go....chrome it" :J
That crowd does exist, but I think your underestimating the folks I actually hang around...these fellas are nuts. 100% performance only. You could paint it pink with a floral print - and if gave you a hp or suspension boost - they'd be all over it.
Quote from: Sitting BullThat crowd does exist, but I think your underestimating the folks I actually hang around...these fellas are nuts. 100% performance only. You could paint it pink with a floral print - and if gave you a hp or suspension boost - they'd be all over it.
Hey.....I hear ya......I was into dune buggying and off-road racing for many years (until I figured out what it was doing to my body). I know how I and my friends felt about it but when it comes to what sells the most....it's shiny.
It's 90% marketing and 10% true value when it comes to manufacturing most anything.
Quote from: AustinBostonFound it. Now, instead of your noise, I just see:
This person is on your Ignore List.
Now you can annoy everyone else without getting any grief from me.
Austin
Good idea. The option is there, just buried a bit, but well worth the effort to find.
Allan
Shew-wee. Got that sucker up tonight, but if you were to put a 5lb bag of sugar on top of it, I don't think I would have gotten it up. All ready for the installation tomorrow. If the kids hit it early tonight, I may even get a head start. :-()
Quote from: Sitting BullShew-wee. Got that sucker up tonight, but if you were to put a 5lb bag of sugar on top of it, I don't think I would have gotten it up. All ready for the installation tomorrow. If the kids hit it early tonight, I may even get a head start. :-()
Let us know how it goes. :D
Got it done yesterday. Not that bad once the roof was up...although there are a ton of inspection panels that needed removed. Probably a four hour job beginning to end. Man, I've gotta find a way to keep this thread going though. Now that AustinBoston and HowlinOwl are gone...I'm not sure it would be as entertaining.
Quote from: Sitting BullGot it done yesterday. Not that bad once the roof was up...although there are a ton of inspection panels that needed removed. Probably a four hour job beginning to end. Man, I've gotta find a way to keep this thread going though. Now that AustinBoston and HowlinOwl are gone...I'm not sure it would be as entertaining.
What did you end up using for pulleys?
How many pulleys did you replace?
Quote from: Sitting BullMan, I've gotta find a way to keep this thread going though. Now that AustinBoston and HowlinOwl are gone...I'm not sure it would be as entertaining.
What color are the pulleys?
Did you know that
green ones turn with less friction than
red ones?
If I read your post correctly, these are slightly
larger diameter than the original ones. Have you calculated the number of revolutions per lift?
How many miles the pulleys will travel if the camper was popped up 25 times per year?
VS the original pulleys?
Those questions might help the thread last a
little longer....:J ;)