Hey gang, I think this is my first post. I have a 2001 Jayco Eagle 14 SO, and am Really interested in putting a drive on cargo rack of some type on top for up to a 600 lb atv.
It's got tandem axles so I don't think the weight would be a problem on the Trailer itself, I'm just wondering if anyone has developed a carrier that mounts to the frame of the trailer and comes up around it to support the atv rack.
I've heard it's been done, can I get some input from the Pup club?
I have a 1995 Jayco 1207 ... so the numbers may be different. I'm guessing they won't be significantly different, though.
My owner's manual states "Maximum weight which may be added to a roof is 200 pounds. This includes any and all options."
I'm thinking adding 600 lbs to your roof isn't a wise plan.
Quote from: Kelly...
I'm thinking adding 600 lbs to your roof isn't a wise plan.
Neat dbl deck trailer for that additional required capacity...
No way would I put that additional stress on the camper top or the axle(s)
jimmy
Quote from: evanallisonHey gang, I think this is my first post. I have a 2001 Jayco Eagle 14 SO, and am Really interested in putting a drive on cargo rack of some type on top for up to a 600 lb atv.
It's got tandem axles so I don't think the weight would be a problem on the Trailer itself, I'm just wondering if anyone has developed a carrier that mounts to the frame of the trailer and comes up around it to support the atv rack.
I've heard it's been done, can I get some input from the Pup club?
evanallison,
WELCOME TO PUT :yikes: IMHO, you'd be asking for mucho problemos :sombraro: .
It goes way past, "What the roof will hold" (which wouldn't be
that much).
PU trailers are designed very light weight for all of the reasons that "Light weight" denotes. It's frame is light, it's axles, cabinetry......literally everything about a PU is engineered for very little additional weight. People buy them
because they are light. That's the whole idea behind the PU, light weight and low wind resistance. An economical camper to tow.
What is your tow vehicle??
If you have a pick-up, you may want to consider putting the ATV in the bed. If you don't have a 3/4 ton pick-up, it sounds like you may want to consider that as an option.
The 14SO's have also had a few problems with brakes and such, as I recall.
As an owner of two ATV's myself, I also thought about some plan like this. I soon wisely decided to keep the two hobbies apart, unless someone with another tow vehicle could tow my ATV trailer.
In short, we hate to be nay-sayers, but don't do it.
Larry
I would not do it.
Welcome to the forums. What those other folks said is dead on.
My Bayside manual says that I can put 300 pounds on the roof with the top down. My AC takes up at least some portion of that. If you were in the market for a new pup, you could take a look at some of the new Fleetwoods. There are a couple models that have decks to haul more stuff. I don't know what weight it can handle, though.
Quote from: fritz_monroeWelcome to the forums. What those other folks said is dead on.
My Bayside manual says that I can put 300 pounds on the roof with the top down. My AC takes up at least some portion of that. If you were in the market for a new pup, you could take a look at some of the new Fleetwoods. There are a couple models that have decks to haul more stuff. I don't know what weight it can handle, though.
Dito on what Fritz says... I have a
Fleetwood Evolution E3 with a deck on the frt. it'll haul 1 big ATV or 2 small ones. The
Scoripon from Fleetwood will haul a bunch more. I use my deck for hauling heavy equipment other than ATV's and it works very well.
Ray Cooper
Tigard, OR
Quote from: evanallisondeveloped a carrier that mounts to the frame of the trailer and comes up around it to support the atv rack.
Everybody-- you've all missed this point.
He is, in no way, intending to add the weight to his
roof. With an external frame, an add-on roof-rack that supported the toy would transfer the mass directly down side steel braces to the camper frame.
Evan... I wondered the same thing, long ago. I'd just bought my first 10-foot-box used Starcraft PUP, and wanted to determine if I could do the same thing to tow a waverunner "above" the PUP.
In my case, the final nail was my springs, axle & wheels were not rated for the extra weight. Plus, at only 1600 lbs, it did not have brakes - but add 600 lbs of waverunner, and I'd darn-well need them!
Step 1: What is the GVWR of your camper?
Step 2: Subtract your dry weight.
Result: This is your cargo capacity. This would be the entire weight that either the frame, or the axle(s) were rated to carry.
If the result is over the weight of your toys, then you need to contact the frame manufacturer and determine what the FRAME is rated for. With a tandem axle, you may be OK on the frame, but might have to beef up the springs or axle or wheels.
At this point, it will quickly become a convenience-vs-cost equation.
If you are determined, and even a welder yourself, and the added burden is not too great, you could possibly build a lifter-kit for your camper that had its own frame that supported the roof-toy. Then, your camper sat directly on the lifter, with the (probably upgraded!) axles directly below your new "lifter". That way, the weight of your toys are NOT on the camper frame, but transferred directly to the new frame that sits on your axles.
Obviously, you'd have to calculate where to put your roof toys to make sure you kept enough weight on the tongue (and did not exceed the tongue-rating of the camper or tow-vehicle).
Long answer. It can be done, but only by knowing the correct values from the camper, frame, axle & wheels.
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edit]
The add-on frame would be similar to the photo linked above, but instead of a boat above a drive-on pickup... imagine the pickup was the box of your camper mounted directly on your "new" frame and axles. The top support platform would have to be removable for your PUP to raise.
Lastly, some states
do allow 2 trailers. Check yours. See 1/3 down this for California non-commercial (ie, non-semi's):
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/trucks/trucksize/length.htmBasically, your TV must be over 4,000 lbs, rated for more than 10,000 lbs. Class A license required.
Not sure how strict they are, but we know people who tow a waverunner behind their big PUP, with a Chevy Avalanche.
I didn't miss the point at all. I realized that he wanted to build some sort of frame. But I don't believe that even the double axle 14SO needs the extra weight of a frame and ATV. The 14SO is a heavy camper anyway.
Larry
Quote from: brainpauseI didn't miss the point at all. I realized that he wanted to build some sort of frame. But I don't believe that even the double axle 14SO needs the extra weight of a frame and ATV. The 14SO is a heavy camper anyway.
Larry
I admit I did miss the point. But, I still don't think it's a good idea .... for exactly the same reasons Larry stated. It is a heavy camper and I would be concerned that the wheels and axles wouldn't be able to handle the extra weight.
I didn't "miss the point" either. I said the same thing you did. However, your explanation was much more detailed and did a better job of actually answering the question. Result is the same......the concept is , "Asking for mucho problemos". :sombraro:
Keep in mind, considering the total weight of camper, cargo, frame and ATV, just what is the carrying capacity of the tires? Quite often when someone is considering going to a heavier axle and springs in order to carry more weight, the carrying capacity of the tires is often overlooked.
Fly
In addition to the weight concerns, a stable support frame would not only have to hold the weight of the ATV, but then fold away so that the roof can be lifted, bunk ends slid out, any slideouts can be opened, the door still opens, ports for water/electrical/propane/etc. can still be accessed, etc.
This sounds like an engineering challenge, even if the weight were not an issue. If you are into engineering challenges, great, but I know this is one I personally would walk away from.
Austin
Quote from: flyfishermanKeep in mind, considering the total weight of camper, cargo, frame and ATV, just what is the carrying capacity of the tires? Quite often when someone is considering going to a heavier axle and springs in order to carry more weight, the carrying capacity of the tires is often overlooked.
Fly
Not only tires (which is a biggy) but the wheels as well.
That's why they build "Toy Haulers". I built a twin axle toy hauler back in 1973. It wasn't as fancy as the ones today. I hauled 2 dune buggies, a complete work shop (including a 10KW generator/arch welder & air compressor) and roof A/C. It had 6 single+ bunks that folded up to the sides. I didn't need a galley or bathroom because I was towing with a motorhome.
Hence why I emphasized he would have to consider the burden on (in addition to his frame) the axles & wheels (rims and tires).
Note, I did personally consider this and then abandon this avenue many years ago, but only after a lot of consideration.
Given that I had an Explorer (2nd car was a Miata, so irrelevant, and no 3rd vehicle wanted), and did NOT want a pickup as I needed the interior space of an SUV, I could not add the toy to the bed of my truck. Thus, I could only haul a toy via the roof or a 2nd trailer... and my Explorer was not rated for 10K hauling, so no 2nd trailer for me.
This was a before popup toy-haulers... which, I might add, I am not a fan of. They are NOT balanced properly. All of the toy weight is completely in front of the trailer wheels. This will add at least 50% of the toy weight to the hitch, making them VERY HITCH HEAVY.
A roof-mounted toy-hauling system would be somewhat ideal. Sure, more wind resistance, but a very compact "package" system.
It would be work to do it, but if one were determined, enhancing the frame, axles (and wheels), and brakes if needed, could be done. It depends on one's needs.
Quote from: zamboniHence why I emphasized he would have to consider the burden on (in addition to his frame) the axles & wheels (rims and tires).
Note, I did personally consider this and then abandon this avenue many years ago, but only after a lot of consideration.
Given that I had an Explorer (2nd car was a Miata, so irrelevant, and no 3rd vehicle wanted), and did NOT want a pickup as I needed the interior space of an SUV, I could not add the toy to the bed of my truck. Thus, I could only haul a toy via the roof or a 2nd trailer... and my Explorer was not rated for 10K hauling, so no 2nd trailer for me.
This was a before popup toy-haulers... which, I might add, I am not a fan of. They are NOT balanced properly. All of the toy weight is completely in front of the trailer wheels. This will add at least 50% of the toy weight to the hitch, making them VERY HITCH HEAVY.
A roof-mounted toy-hauling system would be somewhat ideal. Sure, more wind resistance, but a very compact "package" system.
It would be work to do it, but if one were determined, enhancing the frame, axles (and wheels), and brakes if needed, could be done. It depends on one's needs.
You stated that Toy Haulers are not balanced properly. I must go against that. I have done a lot of research on a lot of different trailers as far as weights go. I don't have a toy hauler-don't have a toy to haul, however, toy haulers are designed with the axle farther forward than a typical pup. They do this so that when the toy is loaded onto the front of the trailer, it counterbalances the weight of the pup portion. Toy haulers if you really think about it are very light in the hitch because of this. Your hitch weight should only be 10-15% of the total weight of the trailer. If you don't have anything in the cargo portion of the toy hauler, you will be unbalanced due to LACK of tongue weight.
Along with everybody here(well almost everybody) I definitely would not modify a pup in that manner. There are plenty of other options from which to choose.
Dave
He needs a Jumping Jack. They setup quick and can carry ATV on top.
http://www.jumpingjacktrailers.com/
It sounds like evanallison is just trying to take his ATV with him. I wondered if there were any other options that would allow this becides putting at 600lb ATV on top of his pop-up, which I personally don't think is a good idea. I am going to assume evanallison does not have a pickup otherwise he could put the ATV in the pickup and then tow his pop-up.
I wonder if it would be possible and/or safe to tow a small trailer behind his pop-up. I realize that this type of towing may not be legal in every state but I have seen it done in Missouri before, so the laws would have to be checked. You would have to add a reciever hitch to the back of your popup.
Last year I had a professional welder install a Class III hitch on the back of my pop-up to accomidate a 4 place bike rack. I instucted the welder that I only planned on using a bike rack, but to support the hitch for much more just in case. He only charged me like $30 labor and did a great job. (I'll try and post a picture of it later.)
I remembered seeing a unique toy hauler trailer in my last TrailerLife magazine and after reading this thread I wounder if it would be possible to use on the back of a pop-up. This toy hauler is designed to be towed on the back of a trailer and is even capiable of backing up with the trailer. I have no idea of how much this costs but check out the link below and let me know what you think.
SwivelWheel (http://www.cruiserlift.com/swivelwheel.html)
Quote from: EvanDossSwivelWheel
There seems to be no end to what people can think up...that thing certanly is, um, creative.
The problem with using it with a pop-up is that 50% of the cargo weight would be on the back of the pop-up...and come straight off the tongue weight. Not only would there be less than the minimum 10-15% tongue weight, but with a 600 lb. ATV it would put some pop-ups in a
negative tongue weight situation, where the ball is holding the tongue down, not up!
Austin
Here's a guy that tried to do what you want to do. As you will see, it didn't turn out so good. Admittedly, his technique was a bit unique but I believe that results would be similar:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/wkavery/PiggyBackFarari.jpg
Quote from: waveryHere's a guy that tried to do what you want to do. As you will see, it didn't turn out so good. Admittedly, his technique was a bit unique but I believe that results would be similar:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/wkavery/PiggyBackFarari.jpg
Naw, that's just his mother-in-law's pickup, and she insisted, "You WILL have room for it in the garage when I visit this weekend!"
Austin
A side note on double trailers...they pull great in straight lines. Turning is very interesting. Also most states would require some sort of endorsement on your driver's license or even a commercial driver's license with a double trailer endorsement.
just something else to think of.
travis
Quote from: waveryHere's a guy that tried to do what you want to do. As you will see, it didn't turn out so good. Admittedly, his technique was a bit unique but I believe that results would be similar:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/wkavery/PiggyBackFarari.jpg
Hey where did you get that picture? I just can't figure out how that F150 got on that Ferrari without doing more damage to the back corner of that car. It almost looksl like the truck was placed on the car. Do you know the story behind the picture? Is it real?
Quote from: EvanDossHey where did you get that picture? I just can't figure out how that F150 got on that Ferrari without doing more damage to the back corner of that car. It almost looksl like the truck was placed on the car. Do you know the story behind the picture? Is it real?
It's a real picture ... see the story here.
Quote from: KellyIt's a real picture ... see the story here.
I liked the link at the bottom of the Snopes article...to the "top 10 female drivers:"
http://www.funtoosh.com/dj.php?details=A11~362Austin