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I was wondering if anyone has ever removed the pull out beds from their pop up and attached the covering material to the camper?  I have a 73 Skamper that needs lots of repair to the vinyl that goes over the ends.  I thought maybe I could just remove the pull out beds since we really don't need all the space and make it into a shortened popup.  Any tips,  pictures or ideas would be appreciated.
Also wanted to say that this is an excellent site! I've found a bunch of great info on here by reading through and searching the forums.  Thanks.

I've never done it myself, but I've seen newer PUPs made with only one bunk-end and a straight canvas wall on the other, and somewhere I saw a photo where someone took an old PUP and made a hardside camper out of it by removing the bunkends, raising the roof, and replacing the canvas with plywood for walls.  They used storm windows for windows, too.  Looked cute!

No reason why it shouldn't work if you don't need the bunk.

I'll see if I can't find that photo of that homemade hardside for you....

Laura

Sorry to hijack Mjohns thread, but I was searching for this exact topic and this post came up.  Since this was his/her first and apparently last post, I thought it might be OK to jump in.

My mom (64 years old) is seriously considering a small folding camper so she can join us on some trips in the coming years.  She is single, and an ex-marine, so she knows how to take care of herself.  She loves our pup, but does not want or need as much room.  So we have researched Chalet and Aliner alternatives.  She loves the Aliner, but we have to travel to a dealer (2 hours) to go see any, since finding one at an RV show is like finding gold.  I want to see how easy it is for her to set up.  She is "vertically challenged" (5'-2", optimistically)

I had an alternative idea which is the subject of this thread.  She has already said that if she gets an Aliner, the dinette will never be used and she will keep it set up as a bed.  A small pup, like say a Fleetwood Sea Pine, has a perfect layout within just the box itself for her needs.  If we removed the bunk ends, and replaced the bunk canvas with flat window panels (and screens), it would be an ideal solution.  It would also be light, easy to set up (perhaps easier than an Aliner?) and likely less expensive (initial cost).

Does anyone have any experience with this kind of modification?  I have already emailed Bear Creek Canvas to see if they have already made up panels like this.

Thanks for any input.

Removing the bunk-ends and replacing the canvas with flat panels will have it's challenges.

One of the things that the bunk-end canvas does is give the roof lateral support. If you remove that support you may end up with a tremendous amount or roof-sway (even in light winds). This could be overcome by criss-crossing webbing from the roof corners diagonally across to the apposing box corner, in both directions forming a X support. It should be done on both sides and the back (back being most critical). The front has support from the door.

If you were to use plywood, it would need to be water-proofed but may do a better job of giving the roof lateral supt (although that much support isn't necessary). However, it would complicate set-up and weight tremendously.

With the canvas sides, it will just be a matter of cranking the top up and down for set-up, take-down. You could, litrerally, crank-up the top, flip over the galley (if required) and go to bed. Set-up in 5 minutes or less :sombraro: .

The canvas sides can be easily made by purchasing Sunbrella material and zippers. Sew a 1/4" rope in the top hem, zipper down both sides, snaps across the bottom and you're done. About a 2+ hour job on a home sewing machine. Here is a supply source:
http://www.sailrite.com/

You could even sew plastic windows into the material. That is the only thing that may require a HD sewing machine. It's really easy to do. If you're really interested, I'd be happy to give you some pointers.

Thanks for your input Wavery.  Let me ask a few questions:

Quote from: waveryRemoving the bunk-ends and replacing the canvas with flat panels will have it's challenges.

One of the things that the bunk-end canvas does is give the roof lateral support. If you remove that support you may end up with a tremendous amount or roof-sway (even in light winds). This could be overcome by criss-crossing webbing from the roof corners diagonally across to the apposing box corner, in both directions forming a X support. It should be done on both sides and the back (back being most critical). The front has support from the door.

I am not sure I follow you here.  The canvas ends are supported by the roof, but I do not see how the roof is supported by the canvas, laterally or in any other plane.  The sheperds pole puts tension between the roof and the end hoop/frame, but that does not add stability to the roof.  If there are stability issues, a diagonal brace could certainly be placed to locate it.  

QuoteIf you were to use plywood, it would need to be water-proofed but may do a better job of giving the roof lateral supt (although that much support isn't necessary). However, it would complicate set-up and weight tremendously.

Nope - no plywood or other hard material for the sides.  Just the canvas.

QuoteWith the canvas sides, it will just be a matter of cranking the top up and down for set-up, take-down. You could, litrerally, crank-up the top, flip over the galley (if required) and go to bed. Set-up in 5 minutes or less :sombraro: .

Exactly! ;)

QuoteThe canvas sides can be easily made by purchasing Sunbrella material and zippers. Sew a 1/4" rope in the top hem, zipper down both sides, snaps across the bottom and you're done. About a 2+ hour job on a home sewing machine. Here is a supply source:
http://www.sailrite.com/

You could even sew plastic windows into the material. That is the only thing that may require a HD sewing machine. It's really easy to do. If you're really interested, I'd be happy to give you some pointers.

I am sure it could be done, but if Bear Creek can make up the panels for $150 or so per side, I'll gladly buy them and install them.  

I would want to incorporate the screens, tinted windows, and the inner weather/privacy panel.  There would actually be very little "canvas" in the assembly.  I would want a rain skirt at the bottom to keep water out. Where the end and side panels zip together, it would still need the flap and velcro to cover the zipper and the posts.  The existing bunk end curtains would remain as window curtains.

The more I think about this the more confident I am that it could work well for her.

I think we may start watching for a nice, clean, used Sea Pine to come on the market.

Thanks again.  Feel free to comment further.

The bunk-ends put outward pressure on both side of the roof equally and slow the swaying in the wind. In fact, one of my shepard's hooks bent in a gust of wind (it was actually a water spout off of the ocean) one time and the roof swayed pretty violently when I was forced to collapse the bunk-end and tie the canvas down. We ended up popping down and leaving even though the wind died down.

Look at the 2008 FW Tacoma ;)

Quote from: oreo57Look at the 2008 FW Tacoma ;)

That's pretty cool.......

http://www.fleetwoodcampingtrailers.com/promo_Tacoma.aspx

It sure is heavy though. I think that I would rather go to a trailmanor. They are actually lighter, bigger and easier to set-up.



http://www.trailmanor.com/

Quote from: oreo57Look at the 2008 FW Tacoma ;)

Thanks Mike, we have.  Actually just the web site, since I dont think there are any in existence yet.  She liked it, but at almost twice the price of the Sea Pine as well as being substantially heavier, it may be out of the running before it leaves the factory.

Wayne - I will pay close attention to that longitudinal movement if we actually go this route.  A waterspout will certainly wreak havoc on your pup!  :yikes:

Hopefully if someone has done this mod they will post up with their experiences.

The Tacoma and Trailmanor are both interesting options, but in the wrong direction size and weight-wise.  She just wants a place to sleep and make a cup of tea in the AM.  She will be camping with my family, my sisters family, or both, but not alone.  She does not intend to entertain guests in the camper, nor take her meals there. Heck, the Sea Pine option is a substantial increase in useable space from the Chalet/Aliner as it is!  I would like her to be able to roll the pup around in her (level, paved) driveway if she needed to.  She is short, but not weak, however rolling something that weighs over a ton is not an option.

I wonder how heavy the Tacoma walls are and how hard it is to set up.  Perhaps the walls rise with the top???

Regardless, I think the bunk end removal project still has merit.

She should get a 1987 or later Vanagon Westfalia.

Also, Starcraft made (makes?) a small pup with only a bunk out over the tongue.  I've seen 'em for sale on Craigslist and ebay.

Quote from: Jim K in PAI wonder how heavy the Tacoma walls are and how hard it is to set up. Perhaps the walls rise with the top???

The side walls do rise with the top.  I don't think the end walls do, but I am not sure.  Production is supposed to start in February.:)

Quote from: Jim K in PAI wonder how heavy the Tacoma walls are and how hard it is to set up.  Perhaps the walls rise with the top???

Regardless, I think the bunk end removal project still has merit.

I don't know how much the walls weigh but the total package weighs 3750 (GVW).

I think that you could make what you are talking about and end up with a camper that weighs nearly half that. I think it's a great idea.

Austin - thanks for the suggestion, but she does not need a second vehicle, nor does she want to drive a Vanagon as a daily driver (although I loved the Vanagon I drove back in college).

Wayne - I agree, the Tacoma is a heavy beast.  Too heavy.  This no-bunk pop up option really has me enthused.

I did get a reply to my email from Bear Creek Canvas.  I got an affirmative on the feasibility, but I have to call them next week to discuss details and options.  I got a reply from Alan.

I'll update this thread as I get more info together.  If this project gets the green light, I'll document it with photos and do a write up.

Quote from: Jim K in PAAustin - thanks for the suggestion, but she does not need a second vehicle, nor does she want to drive a Vanagon as a daily driver (although I loved the Vanagon I drove back in college).

Wayne - I agree, the Tacoma is a heavy beast.  Too heavy.  This no-bunk pop up option really has me enthused.

I did get a reply to my email from Bear Creek Canvas.  I got an affirmative on the feasibility, but I have to call them next week to discuss details and options.  I got a reply from Alan.

I'll update this thread as I get more info together.  If this project gets the green light, I'll document it with photos and do a write up.

I have been considering taking out one of my bunk-ends for a long time. I have drawings that I did for a replacement wall.

My intention is to put in a flip-out shelf at the bottom of the wall (a piece of plywood, sewn into a pocket in the wall material). It will be the length of the box wall (7' 5") and about 18" deep. On the outside of the wall, I will put straps that go down to the frame. This will give me a " < " shape which will give the roof some added supt and also help the front and rear panel keep their shape. It will also ad a lot of space for storage. It will also give rain a way to run off. The shelf can be attached to the inside of the camper and it will protect it from any water intrusion. When tearing-down, the shelf just needs to be flipped inside.

Our biggest problem is that we have a bird cage that needs a place to live. He currently takes up the entire king size bunk and that's a lot of waisted space. That space needs to be heated and cooled and the bunk-end platform adds a lot of wait and set-up time to the entire package.

Anyway, I thought that you might find the "shelf" concept interesting.

Quote from: waveryI have been considering taking out one of my bunk-ends for a long time. I have drawings that I did for a replacement wall.



Anyway, I thought that you might find the "shelf" concept interesting.

Wayne-thanks for sharing your idea.  I will consider that when we get a little deeper into the project.

In the furture, I want to remove the bunk ends on my camper too.  Have thought about doing that for a couple of years.  If you do do this mod, please post as I am very interested in the outcome.  I think this is a great idea for those who camp alone.  Good luck and stay in touch.

Update-

A couple of days ago I spoke with Alan Tesch of Bear Creek Canvas.  We discussed a variety of options with respect to the replacement end panel.  Here are the key points:

Lower flap attachment - since there is no bunk end to wrap the bunk end flaps around, the solution we concluded would be most appropriate would be a combination of velcro and snaps along the upper edge of the box.

Zippers - Fleetwood uses a proprietary zipper profile, so BCC needs the factory ends so they can remove and reuse the zippers.

Material - Alan explained some details about the canvas they use and the material used by Fleetwood and others.  BCC only uses genuine cotton canvas that is waterproof, UV resistent and mold/mildew resistant.

The cost for the custom ends would be the same as for a replacement end (~$270/side).

Initially Alan was a bit tenuous about the project, and our seriousness.  But after a few minutes he began to get into the idea.  By the time we finished, he was thoroughly enthused with the idea.

If this project moves forward, we will be dealing with Alan and BCC.  We spent almost a half hour on the phone discussing a potential project that may or may not generate a sale.  He is very generous with his time and information.  I highly recommend BCC.

Stay tuned.  It may be a while before anything happens, but if it does I will post another update.

I had the same discussion with Bear Creek Canvas about a year ago. I even sent him drawings.

The solution to the zipper problem is easy. Just buy 2 new zippers assemblies. Sew one half onto the new panel and sew the other half onto your front and rear panels as a second zipper. That way, you can always switch back to having your bunk-end, if needed.

If you go with a fold-out shelf at the bottom of the new wall, the attachment to the box is not critical but you could put it on the inside. This would facilitate easier set-up because you wouldn't have to mess with attaching anything. The shelf would hold the canvas out at an angle so the water would run off, away from the camper. A flap could be sewn in to lay over the outside of the camper wall but it wouldn't need to be attached to the camper. This would keep the water from running in on the corners.

Now that you've got me thinking about this project again, maybe I'll get started on it (if i can find my drawings). :sombraro: