Has anyone had any success in quieting down the heater blower? It is rather noisy when it comes on in the middle of the night.
Thanks
Quote from: JimSHas anyone had any success in quieting down the heater blower? It is rather noisy when it comes on in the middle of the night.
Thanks
We quieted ours down by purchasing a Mr Buddy heater. It uses zero electricity and much less propane too.
http://www.mrheater.com/productdetails_extended.asp?catid=41&id=24
Not me ... that was always my biggest complaint with the scudders!
Usually I sleep better in the popup than I do anywhere, yet I'm still kind of sub-consciously alert for strange noises. Always know when a raccoon comes to pay a visit during the night, or if there's a sudden light jar to the PU. But most of all, when that d--n furnance would recycle then I'd be wide awake!
When you do hear of something that works I'd be interested in knowing what it is!
Fly
It really ought to be possible to make an RV heater that is more than a dismal 40% efficient, is quieter than a typical diesel pusher, doesn't weigh 300 lbs., isn't a fire hazard, and doesn't push a lot of water vapor (and possible carbon monoxide) into your camper.
But I'm not holding my breath.
Austin
Quote from: AustinBostonIt really ought to be possible to make an RV heater that is more than a dismal 40% efficient, is quieter than a typical diesel pusher, doesn't weigh 300 lbs., isn't a fire hazard, and doesn't push a lot of water vapor (and possible carbon monoxide) into your camper.
But I'm not holding my breath.
Austin
Actually, it really isn't that hard. You could build a heater in your PU that works exactly like your car's heater.
It would merely require a automotive heater core, a small fan (much smaller than the furnace fan in most campers) and a small water circulating pump.
The hot water could be supplied by the camper's water heater which is heated by the camper's propane tank. The water would be circulated through the heater core then back to the water heater in a continuous loop. The pump and fan would be controlled by a thermostat (just like the furnace).
This system would recirculate the air inside the camper and less heat would be lost. The camper's furnace is highly inefficient IMO.
The heater in our home works off of this exact system. It is extremely efficient.
Quote from: waveryThe heater in our home works off of this exact system. It is extremely efficient.
It isn't the system that makes it efficient, it is the way the system is implemented. Our home heat is forced hot air, and is over 96% efficient. Whatever system is used, it has to cool outgoing gasses beyond the point of water condensation to achieve that...an unwanted problem with pop-ups.
I don't know about yours, but the burner on our water heater isn't much quieter than the burner (not the fan) than our furnace. It helps some that the burner is in the nose storage rather than in the box, but that is like moving the problem away rather than curing it.
IMHO, the hot water heater isn't remarkably efficient either, but I don't know how it compares to the furnace.
But your thumbnail design is interesting. maybe someone into mods could try this. You listening, austinado16?
Austin
Quote from: AustinBostonIt really ought to be possible to make an RV heater that is more than a dismal 40% efficient, is quieter than a typical diesel pusher, doesn't weigh 300 lbs., isn't a fire hazard, and doesn't push a lot of water vapor (and possible carbon monoxide) into your camper.
But I'm not holding my breath.
Austin
More campaign rhetoric. The heater in my camper only fails one or two of those criteria.
On topic-
The Suburban 12,000 and 16,000 models can have a quieter, less powerful fan retrofitted. The downside is: Less airflow so the warm air might not circulate as well; hotter output possibly making it less comfortable right near the furnace; sail switch faults are more likely due to low voltage and high altitudes.
Hydronic-
I've found people online who built hydronic heating systems for their small campers using the water heater. I seriously considered it but didn't go through for several reasons. I even discussed it online with a HVAC engineer who happens to own a trailer similar to mine.
Pros:
Much quieter.
Gentler, more uniform temperatures.
Cons:
More complex systems to possibly go wrong.
Expensive- High efficiency pump is over $200, heater core rated for potable water with high efficiency fan is close to $200, additional valves and plumbing probably $100.
Freeze risk- Using potable water vs. antifreeze depending on where the water lines are run you might have to run the water heater and pump whenever towing in sub-freezing weather.
Electrical usage- Pump about 0.3 amps, heater core blower about 0.4 amps for around 3,000 btu output (with water heater cranked up to 130F). My nice and easy to use DSI water heater uses 1.0 amps whenever the burner is on- but the burner would only be going about 1/3 of the time. The end result is an average of 1.0 amps for 3,000 btu of output.
In comparison my furnace uses about 3.5 amps for 16,000 of heat output.
For my trailer if I could find a place to mount it I would add a 3,000 btu Olympian catalytic heater.
Quote from: waveryWe quieted ours down by purchasing a Mr Buddy heater. It uses zero electricity and much less propane too.
http://www.mrheater.com/productdetails_extended.asp?catid=41&id=24
I have one of these also and love it but can't leave it on all night - wish I could. I use it most of the time but at night, I would like to keep the camper comfortable for the kid without the worry of him getting into it at night by accident. Maybe I'm worrying over nothing. Also, the Mr Buddy does not have a thermostat, just high and low. I also need to get a hose with an addaptor to be able to use it off the camper's tanks by way of the outside stove connection.
Quote from: waveryIt would merely require a automotive heater core, a small fan (much smaller than the furnace fan in most campers) and a small water circulating pump.
The hot water could be supplied by the camper's water heater which is heated by the camper's propane tank.
I'm not sure this exact combination would be a good idea. JimQPublic's post reminded me that the hot water heater is potable water. The automotive heater core was not designed or manufactured with drinking/cooking/washing water in mind.
Austin
Quote from: AustinBostonI'm not sure this exact combination would be a good idea. JimQPublic's post reminded me that the hot water heater is potable water. The automotive heater core was not designed or manufactured with drinking/cooking/washing water in mind.
Austin
Most heater cores are made of copper, just like your home's plumbing. Even if you were to use a used one, it would be easy enough to clean out with alcohol.
Automotive heater blowers suck a lot of electricity. I was looking at the Heatercraft 8H but it appears to be out of production. They now have a couple promising models that only draw 1/3 amp and put out up to 8,000 BTU. That's with 170F water circulating at fairly high velocity. At 130F and lower velocity the heat output would probably be below 4,000. Heatercraft 1113 (http://www.heatercraft.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=1113H) Heatercraft 901-H (http://www.heatercraft.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=901-H)
For the pump I would go with a hydronic pump designed for solar powered systems. Ivan Labs makes the "El Sid" pumps that draw .3, .5, or .9 amps.
Quote from: waveryMost heater cores are made of copper, just like your home's plumbing. Even if you were to use a used one, it would be easy enough to clean out with alcohol.
I was thinking about lead solder, but IIRC, most heater cores are single-piece tubing, so they don't have any solder joints (lead or otherwise), so that probably does not apply.
Austin
Actually, most heater cores now are plastic tanks with aluminum matrix's, just the like the radiators.
I saw a write up about building one of these systems when I was researching the Olympian Wave 6 Catalytic that I was buying. Looks neat, but in my opinion, way too many gizmos, and way to low of output when you consider the massive heating loss of a PUP.
In my opinion, less is more, and that's why I went with the Wave 6 (actually the one I bought was previous model, the 6100. It sits on the floor on it's own legs, or on the dinette table and quick couples to the camper main line just like the carry out stove.
Just jumping in here a little late, but the original subject caught my eye. We camped up in our pasture on Friday night (21 Sept) for the first time in our NTU PUP. Obviously it was the first time for everything to get used (by us). The furnace worked great, but that fan is noisy, especially on startup. It woke me up every time it started (but not DW or either DS).
I had an idea the next morning that I will look into more closely soon. I would like to wire in a "soft start" controller that would ramp up the starting voltage from say 4 volts up to full voltage over a 1-3 second period. That would be MUCH less likely to wake me up during the night.
We had no condensation/water vapor issues with our furnace. It has an outside air supply and exterior venting for the combustion chamber. It also is a lot more efficient than 40%. As labelled, it is about 71% efficient (~19k Btu input, ~13.5k Btu output). Ours is a Suburban. It heated the PUP quite nicely, although the temp outside was fairly mild at around 52 deg F. It came on about 4 or 5 times during the night set to about 65.
If I come across a controller solution, I will post up (and market it!) :U
We had the same experience using our 1981/82 Duo-Therm furnace in the same temps. There was no condensation problem either. The noise of the blower fan did keep waking me and Kim up, but not our daughter.
Do you think the delay in volage would allow it to work properly? Maybe it would since the sail switch is the last "control" that needs to be activated in order to fire the burner.
I was thinking of sticking that sound deadener material called "Dynamat" (another product is "FatMat") to the inside walls of the cabinet where the furnace is housed to see if that would help deaden/dampen the noise some. I also thought about putting a pad of it down underneath the front frame of the furnace where it's screwed into the floor. Haven't done either yet though.
Quote from: austinado16We had the same experience using our 1981/82 Duo-Therm furnace in the same temps. There was no condensation problem either. The noise of the blower fan did keep waking me and Kim up, but not our daughter.
Ah, the peaceful, stress-free slumber of youth. I wish I could remember how to do that . . .
QuoteDo you think the delay in volage would allow it to work properly? Maybe it would since the sail switch is the last "control" that needs to be activated in order to fire the burner.
I would make sure that only the blower motor side of the circuit was subject to the ramped voltage controller. Everything else should work as normal. My furnace does not light until a few seconds after the blower starts.
QuoteI was thinking of sticking that sound deadener material called "Dynamat" (another product is "FatMat") to the inside walls of the cabinet where the furnace is housed to see if that would help deaden/dampen the noise some. I also thought about putting a pad of it down underneath the front frame of the furnace where it's screwed into the floor. Haven't done either yet though.
I would be somewhat concerned about putting anything close to the heat exchanger. I am sure you could add sound deadener to the outside of the cabinet without causing any safety issues, but I am not sure it would help much. Most of the noise comes from the front of our unit, and you cannot do much about that. It is the sudden starting that wakes me up, not the stead state noise. That dynamat stuff also gets pretty heavy, and I am trying not to bulk up my PUP.
BTW, furnace is mounted up above the floor about 8 inches. I actually have a storage cabinet under the furnace.
I also want to relocate and upgrade that thermostat. What a dumb place to put it.
Follow on to the blower issue-
I've noticed that ours is MUCH quieter off battery vs. shore power- the difference from the 13.4 volt converter to 12.5ish from the battery reduces the noise a lot. I have been known to unplug at night.
Mine does the same thing with delaying the burner until the blower is up to speed. I've got about 5" of space round mine and just put in 2 layers of Reflectix around the inside of the cabinet in an upside down "U" shape. It still needs to suck in return air for the blower, so there has to be a space completely around the body of the furnace for that to happen (it has a seperate outside air intake for the burner chamber, driven by a second fan). So there is room to put 1 layer of Dynamat right onto the cabinet wood, with the Reflectix over the top as heat insulation.
I'm just looking to change the tone some. Anything would help. Too bad a 4" square ball bearing'd computer case fan couldn't be swapped in.