Who out there tows with a half ton pick up? Has anyone had any trouble with there truck from excessive towing? How much weight do you tow, mileage, cargo, etc...My transmission is having problems (2000, Ford F-150, 4x4). My towing limit is 7,900 lbs, I tow a 2003 Jayco Kiwi Hybrid, 23 foot, 3,900 lbs dry weight. Just curious of others that may have or had problems in the past and what kind of problems.
Thanks, Jamesdad
Quote from: JamesdadWho out there tows with a half ton pick up? Has anyone had any trouble with there truck from excessive towing? How much weight do you tow, mileage, cargo, etc...My transmission is having problems (2000, Ford F-150, 4x4). My towing limit is 7,900 lbs, I tow a 2003 Jayco Kiwi Hybrid, 23 foot, 3,900 lbs dry weight. Just curious of others that may have or had problems in the past and what kind of problems.
Unless you are missing a required tranny cooler, this doesn't sound so much like a towing-related problem as just a "shorter than normal" transmision life.
A lot of people tow with setups that are closer to the limits without problems. In my case, my tow rating is 6,000 lbs., (1,900 lbs less than yours), and my trailer is 3,500 lbs. (400 lbs less than yours). Since 2000, this setup has gone over 30,000 miles (van has a total of over 200,000 miles). She's towed over many 8,000 foot passes (top was over 9,000 feet), spent an hour in stop-and-go traffic at 110
Thank you AustinBoston, It goes in the shop tomorrow, we will see what is going on. I will mention the tranny cooler, not sure if I have one or not??
Jamesdad
We tow our 01 Westlake (3500 lb) with our Dodge Ram. We have the small V8 (4.7 liter). I believe our tow rating is 6,500 lbs. We are way under with the popup but when we load the 3 dirt bikes in the back along with the popup chasing the truck we are almost maxed out. Our truck is fairly new (2005) so no tranny issues. Dh is considering installing airbags or special helper springs on the truck. When we are loaded the rear sags quite a bit.
Good luck with the truck. It is not cheap to replace/repair the tranny.
Jacqui
Quote from: JamesdadWho out there tows with a half ton pick up? Has anyone had any trouble with there truck from excessive towing? How much weight do you tow, mileage, cargo, etc...My transmission is having problems (2000, Ford F-150, 4x4). My towing limit is 7,900 lbs, I tow a 2003 Jayco Kiwi Hybrid, 23 foot, 3,900 lbs dry weight. Just curious of others that may have or had problems in the past and what kind of problems.
Thanks, Jamesdad
What kind of problems are you having (clunking, slipping, not going into gear smoothly, not going in reverse right away.....)? How many miles? How often do you change the ATF and filter?
Towing with a '90 1/2 ton 4x4 Suburban w/ 5.7L(350ci) injected V-8. I have a HUGE trans cooler, plus a finned cast aluminum pan that holds 4 additional qts and I have a mechanical trans oil temp gauge in the pan. I tow alot, from watercraft to cars, and now the PUP. So far so good, but I have to show the 700R4/4L60 trans some major respect. In fact I just replaced the fan clutch because I was getting some higher-than-normal transmission temps pulling long grades at slow speeds......my prop wasn't hooking up!
Good luck w/ that FORD. I towed one of your buddies out of the middle of the highway last winter with my Audi after his F-150's tranny grenaded and sort of had it locked in R & D at the same time.
Kevin, You know what I tow with my Toyota. I have the factory Tow Package on it. Prior to the TH, I towed a 27' Jayco travel trailer for about 3 years, and before that my pop-up once. We took it in for service on the tranny (Fluid) a couple of weeks ago and Toyota said it looked good, no reason to change it yet. The tow package makes a difference. I don't know what yours has for this but Toyota has an Oil Cooler, tranny cooler, Class IV hitch, 7 pin connector, & Brake controller pre-wire. When I'm fully loaded I'm probably at 7000 lbs. So far so good.
Like I always post here ... I've driven pick'em-ups for so long I just don't know how to act when I get into a regular car! I just like the way they sit and drive; and I believe they are a little tougher than a car.
Below I've posted a pix of the little red pick-up and Starcraft. The tow rating for the truck is something like 6500 lbs and the GVWR for the PU is 2090, which by the time I load on the canoe and a couple of bikes I'm real close to. Last time I had it weighed with everything hung on the camper it weighed in at something like 2,053 lbs (I know I've since added some more bric-a-brac thats at least another 25 lbs!). What I like about the truck is the low profile fiberglass cargo bed cover which gives me a huge truck to stow all my "other" junk. I simply cannot understand all the stuff I carry when I try so hard to "travel light". But the truck carries all with ease and it's a chore to keep my speed at 65 mph as the truck wants to and can so easily "cruise" at 80! But the gas mileage at 65 is an honest and pleasant 19.5 mpg in flat country; will drop off in the mountains to 16 or 17 ... takes more energy (fuel) to pull an extra ton up hill!
I have a new tranny in the truck. The orginal was not right from the get-go, made some funny noises and a little slip and klunk here and there. Took it back to Mr.Goodwrench three or four times but they said it was O.K. ~ Then one day I just drove up to the store; came out with whatever it was I went there for, got into the truck, put it in reverse and there was no reverse! Come to find out the orginal tranny was defective ... either it was a defective part or something was put in wrong or maybe not at all. Anyway, here's the kicker: it was still under warranty and I got a brand new tranny ... AND, get this, the new tranny has a 100,000 mile warranty on it ... the orginal was warranted for only 35,000 miles!
Anyway, I like pick-up trucks. I like the way it sits and the way it drives. I like the towing ability it has and all the stuff it can carry.
Fly
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/otcpix/Flyfisherman/th_DSCF0047.jpg) (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/otcpix/Flyfisherman/DSCF0047.jpg)
I tow with an '03 Expedition 5.4L 4WD, but my pop-up is only 1600 lbs dry. The Expedition has 83,000 miles on it, and no tranny issues. It has the factory towing package, and runs good down the road.
I've seen, or should I say heard, lots of people with larger trailers towing in OD. Thats ok, if your transmission isn't "hunting" for the right gear to be in, but if it is .... hunting for a gear is what builds up heat in your trany and can eventually lead to breakdowns.
My TV has its trany fluid changed out every 80,000 kms. It makes a big difference , you will notice that down shift paterns that were once there when it was new, are back again.
Below 100km per hr and a big load I would be towing out of OD ... 3rd gear. Hilly areas 3rd gear again. As soon as my TV starts shifting up and down ... hunting for the right gear .. down she goes again ..into 3rd.
d-mo
BTW Kevin......my '99 S10 P/U has the same trans as your truck. My S10 has 175K miles on it and the trans is tight as a drum.
The previous owner towed a big boat to the Colorado River (like every-other weekend). He changed the ATF every 25K miles and it shows it.
I recently switched to synthetic ATF (which I highly recommend) and installed a larger oil cooler. :sombraro:
Just a note......The on-board computer takes about 10-20 miles to adjust it's shifting points when you are towing. After towing, the same adjustment period should be expected. So if you are concerned about shifting irregularities when you start towing and/or after towing, that may be normal. :sombraro:
Quote from: waveryBTW Kevin......my '99 S10 P/U has the same trans as your truck. My S10 has 175K miles on it and the trans is tight as a drum.
The previous owner towed a big boat to the Colorado River (like every-other weekend). He changed the ATF every 25K miles and it shows it.
I recently switched to synthetic ATF (which I highly recommend) and installed a larger oil cooler. :sombraro:
Just a note......The on-board computer takes about 10-20 miles to adjust it's shifting points when you are towing. After towing, the same adjustment period should be expected. So if you are concerned about shifting irregularities when you start towing and/or after towing, that may be normal. :sombraro:
A Chevy S-10 has the same transmission that a Ford F-150 4x4?:yikes:
Quote from: TheVikingA Chevy S-10 has the same transmission that a Ford F-150 4x4?:yikes:
:morning:
Good catch Brian.... I meant "austinado16's" 1/2 ton 4x4 Suburban w/ 5.7L V8 with a
700R4/4L60 trans. :eyecrazy:
They have a reputation for being a weak trans. However, I think that they get a bad rap from people that don't service them on a regular basis.
BTW Brian...If I were you, I would insist on having that trans serviced (fluid and filter change). ATF has a tendency to look OK but burn up the next time that it gets hot. Considering how much you tow, I wouldn't let that go longer than 25K miles. Talk to the Toyota dealer about using synthetic ATF. Better yet, do some research on it and make up your own mind. Dealership Service Managers tend to have a mind set that
NOTHING should be done to deviate from factory specs. Just be sure that it won't effect your warranty :sombraro: (not that they would know the difference anyway).
Synthetic ATF dissipates heat better and will withstand higher temps without burning. It has also been prooven to provide more stable shifting patterns. Chrysler and some other manuf have switched to synthetic exclusively. They have found that it has dramatically reduced warranty costs and increased trans longevity. They claim that it never needs to be changed (although I wouldn't recommend it in a TV).
The Suburban's original 700R4 lasted 234,000mi, which is simply unheard of. I was going to throw a GM rebuilt unit at it, but didn't want to put someone else's "unknown" transmission and "unknown" rebuild in it. Did a bunch of reading online and then bought all the goodies that are recommended for building them stronger, and had a local GM tranny guy rebuild mine.
I just serviced it, after the long hot pull to the Grand Canyon, and a second short but very hot pull to King's Canyon. I was expecting brown fluid, but it actually looked great. I put in conventional, simply because I didn't have the coin to throw 8qts of synthetic in it, but I will at the next service.
Depending on load and road conditions I will tow in overdrive, but as soon as the road isn't level, or if I'm bucking a big headwind (The 'burb has the aerodynamics of 2 sheets of plywood) I pull it down into 3rd. With the lockup torque converter, it's really a 6 speed because it can lock and unlock in both 3rd and 4th, which is about a 300rpm change at speed.
I get around 18mpg empty, on the highway, at the speedlimit. I can milk about 15mpg towing if I stay around 60mph. But get on the power, or maintain 75+ and it's 11mpg.
Quote from: waveryThey claim that it never needs to be changed (although I wouldn't recommend it in a TV).
Sort of like underwear that never needs to be changed. Sure, you can do that, but why would you want to? :D
Austin
Quote from: AustinBostonSort of like underwear that never needs to be changed. Sure, you can do that, but why would you want to? :D
Austin
I've always loved the transmissions and differentials that are "Filled for life" at the factory and don't have drain plugs. So when the thing grenades, the factory says, "See. Just like we promised, the fluid lasted the life of the unit."
Quote from: austinado16I've always loved the transmissions and differentials that are "Filled for life" at the factory and don't have drain plugs. So when the thing grenades, the factory says, "See. Just like we promised, the fluid lasted the life of the unit."
Actually, I would feel perfectly comfortable going 100K on synthetic ATF in a passenger car. The stuff does not break down and it doesn't burn (like traditional ATF). However, it will contaminate, like anything else. Contamination is a very mute point on an automatic transmission though. Synthetic ATF will not hold contaminates in suspension as much as traditional ATF (another bonus). The real killer is heat and that is why synthetic is so superior. I would just be concerned that contamination may increase when a lot of towing is done.
I purchased an oil pan
with a drain plug :sombraro:.
The thing that bothers me about the filled for life or other hight mileage type useage is the amount metal and other debris that can accumulate. Certainly helps if there are magnets, but many times there are not. The filled for life stuff that I've sucked out has been very nasty/dirty.
Quote from: austinado16The thing that bothers me about the filled for life or other hight mileage type useage is the amount metal and other debris that can accumulate. Certainly helps if there are magnets, but many times there are not. The filled for life stuff that I've sucked out has been very nasty/dirty.
In addition, magnets only work on magnetic metals. While most of the guts of a transmission is steel, I would not be surprised to find some aluminum and plastic in there as well.
Austin
Quote from: austinado16The thing that bothers me about the filled for life or other hight mileage type useage is the amount metal and other debris that can accumulate. Certainly helps if there are magnets, but many times there are not. The filled for life stuff that I've sucked out has been very nasty/dirty.
What one may be seeing as "nasty/dirty", may well be burnt additives that are put in the ATF. When the additives burn, they turn to like dirt/mud particles. Most of the fine metallic or organic particles are held in the filter or stick to the magnet. A transmission just doesn't get that with synthetic ATF. It doesn't burn.
Trans fluid should be a nice cherry red. Once a person sees any brown, the fluid is degraded past the point of doing it's job. When it gets nasty, that is a sure sign that the clutches are burnt and there may well be severe wear to hard parts.
If there is "nasty/dirty" in trans fluid, it's time to replace that trans or sell that car. Replacing the fluid won't stop the disintegration of the trans. Although it may slightly prolong it. I would NOT tow with a vehicle once the fluid has gotten nasty, not even after the fluid is changed. Transmission parts do not heal :p .
All kinds of materials are used in transmissions: steel, brass, bronze, aluminum, kevlar, asbestos and other fiberous materials, etc.
Regarding the nasty/dirty fluid, I'm not talking about my Suburban.
Quote from: austinado16All kinds of materials are used in transmissions: steel, brass, bronze, aluminum, kevlar, asbestos and other fiberous materials, etc.
Regarding the nasty/dirty fluid, I'm not talking about my Suburban.
I know that you weren't talking about your vehicle at all :yikes: . It was a general statement and so was mine :D . I edited the post ;) so that it does not seem personal.
I was a Dealership Service Manager for many years and I think the single most neglected item on customer's vehicles is their transmission service. The fact is, most people never even realized that they must service the transmission.
My post was more directed at less informed people than yourself (it's obvious that you are mechanically inclined and take very good care of your stuff). A lot of people read these posts and hopefully 1 or 2 may learn something and it could even save a trans or 2 from self-destruction do to a lack of maintenance.
Quote from: austinado16All kinds of materials are used in transmissions: steel, brass, bronze, aluminum, kevlar, asbestos and other fiberous materials, etc.
Regarding the nasty/dirty fluid, I'm not talking about my Suburban.
Kevlar in your transmission? What part of town do you drive though? :sombraro:
Quote from: JamesdadWho out there tows with a half ton pick up? Has anyone had any trouble with there truck from excessive towing? How much weight do you tow, mileage, cargo, etc...My transmission is having problems (2000, Ford F-150, 4x4). My towing limit is 7,900 lbs, I tow a 2003 Jayco Kiwi Hybrid, 23 foot, 3,900 lbs dry weight. Just curious of others that may have or had problems in the past and what kind of problems.
Thanks, Jamesdad
Back to the original question, the transmission problems that you may be having should be unrelated to towing. I have abused many 1/2 ton pickups over the years when I used to be a farmer; International, Ford, Chevrolet, and GMC, by doing such things as hauling hog feed or firewood piled up the the cab roof, pulling anhydrous ammonia tanks, loaded hay racks, pulling logs and brush out of creeks with cables and chains, slogging through muddy fields and pastures pulling grain wagons, etc. We did have to replace worn or broken u-joints, stripped gears out of differentials and transfer cases, and a have a rare clutch replacement, however our 1/2 ton farm trucks never had a transmission issue. Even though trucks may not be built as heavy as they once were, pulling something as lightweight and easy as a hybrid trailer or popup is nothing compared to the work these trucks were designed to do for farmers and contractors.
Didn't take it personal at all Wayne. Just wanted to spec that it wasn't mine that was full of debris.......at least not yet anyway! Although I did freak when I watched the trans oil temp gauge go to 230*F pulling a long grade stuck behind a big rig in 110*F temps. It was only there a couple of minutes and cooled right off once we decended and got around the rig.
But I did come home and toss the fan clutch in the trash! The new one roars like a freight train, so it's pretty obvious it's working...and the other one never made that noise. We'll see what happens on the next big hill climb.
Now back to the point, I aggree, 1/2 ton trucks are excellent all around for working and towing, and yet still get good mileage compared to the bigger stuff sporting 7 liter engines. Generally don't feel the car trailer, or PUP, or watercraft trailer, unless it's a long steep climb.
I get about 8 mpg towing my TH when it's loaded. I think if I had a bigger truck with a V-10 or Diesel I would get better mpg. It won't have to work as hard.
Thank you for everyone's responses, good info to read up on. My truck went into the shop last Wed. It was diagnosed with a blown "coast clutch", in between 2nd and 4th gear. Just a mechanical failure, no reason on why. Towing had nothing to do with it they say, trans fluid was fine, no other problems. In order for them to fix it they had to tear down the entire trans, fix the internal parts and put it back together for a pretty penny. For another pretty penny extra I had them install a heavy duty trans that the Ford diesel trucks use, much better tranny all around. I am not planning on selling the truck, keeping it for the long haul and a better all around deal. My truck has 107,000 miles, lots of good miles left. It does have the trans cooler. Now when I drive it, it sounds and feels like a heavier tranny, works great and noticably more power and tighter feel when driving. Looking forward to towing soon to see the difference. See you guys in Oct, happy camping.
Jamesdad...:)
Hi Jamesdad,
How's that trans holding up? We are looking into an F150 ourselves. Had a Ranger but it has recently been totaled.
Quote from: JamesdadWho out there tows with a half ton pick up? Has anyone had any trouble with there truck from excessive towing? How much weight do you tow, mileage, cargo, etc...My transmission is having problems (2000, Ford F-150, 4x4). My towing limit is 7,900 lbs, I tow a 2003 Jayco Kiwi Hybrid, 23 foot, 3,900 lbs dry weight. Just curious of others that may have or had problems in the past and what kind of problems.
Thanks, Jamesdad
That's not the pickup, it's the brand... :p
Look at it this way, many domestic pickups routinely (daily?) tow at their limit, whether half, 3/4 or 1 ton trucks. And run a long time. Chevy, GMC, Ford, and Dodge.
A lot of full time fifth wheel owners, tow huge fifth wheels with 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks. Without tranny problems, and we're talking about 12,000 to 22,000 lbs. Now granted, it does appear that most RVers with fifth wheels are towing with GM trucks, but conversely a lot of farmers and construction folks tow huge loads with Fords.
There isn't any reason that your Jayco should give your truck problems. Have you kept your tranny fluid changed? I change at 30,000 miles just for the cheap insurance of new fluid. But I know that GM is saying 100,000 miles or 50,000 miles towing frequently.
Quote from: TheVikingI get about 8 mpg towing my TH when it's loaded. I think if I had a bigger truck with a V-10 or Diesel I would get better mpg. It won't have to work as hard.
My Duramax diesel gets between 12-14 mpg towing a fifth wheel. Sometimes it does downshift from 6th to 5th on steep uphill mountain grades at 65 mph. But most of the time, it is turning over 1,600 rpm in 6th.
I tow my Fleetwood Niagara with my Ram 1500 (1/2 ton), and don't generally have any issues. When I bought the 97 Ram, I got the heavy duty tow package, so have the tranny cooler, etc. (That year too the wiring for towing configurations was 1/2 and 1/2 - have the model year were fully wired, the other half not....mine thankfully was fully wired and saved me a few dollars when installing the brake controller). I do however have the friction sway control too.
We are going to get our 2004 F150 with about 12,000 miles on it today. This thing is like brand new. It has the towing package with trans cooler and 4pin/7pin wiring. Cant wait to get it home and get it dialed in to tow our pup, (setting hitch height, etc.).
And with all the rain we're having, you've got plenty of time on your hands!!!
I'm having my starcraft fitted with pontoons!
According to the latest weather report we are going to get hit again pretty good this weekend with more rain. I don't mind it too much cause I know we need every drop. I bet SLO Creek is running strong right now. We might try and check it out this weekend.
Nojaqui Falls is probably majorly running also but it will be a very muddy and slippery walk.
John
I'm inspired by this.....
(http://blog.makezine.com/redneck_houseboat.jpg)
Heading over to Home Deep Hole for lumber right now. Mmm...I wonder if I need to apply to the DMV for CF numbers?
My 97 Ram 1500 has the heavy duty tow package (tranny cooler/hitch), and it tows my Niagara (beastie) very well. As instructed in the owners manual for the truck, I tow with "Overdrive Off".