I just bought my first PUP- Starcraft Centennial 3612. My TV 2007 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner V6. Is there much trailer swaying when pulling a PUP?
Very little, especially when compared to pulling conventional trailers. I've been amazed how easily my PUP pulls. The only time I've experienced any swaying was in a strong, gusty cross wind, and that may have been more the mini-van than the trailer.
Quote from: handfixerI just bought my first PUP- Starcraft Centennial 3612. My TV 2007 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner V6. Is there much trailer swaying when pulling a PUP?
It depends on your set-up.
A high tongue height or low tongue weight can cause swaying. Some PUs have the axles farther forward than others. The farther forward the axle, the more likely the sway. Short wheel base TVs will be more apt to sway as well as front wheel drive. Speed can also contribute to swaying so can bad shocks or springs on the TV.
You pretty well have to hitch it up and tow it to find out. The rule of thumb for tongue weight is between 10-15% of the total trailer weight should be on the tongue. The trailer should ride level or a little down on the front. Never have the front of the trailer higher than the rear. That will sway for sure.
My 97 Jeep Grand Cherokee / Coachmen Clipper 2485ST swayed even at low speeds right from the beginning, I thought it was going to jackknife on several occaisions. I adjusted hitch height, tire pressures and tongue weights. I installed a sway controller that only dampened the sway at low speeds - under 40. Over 40mph was scary. I've towed quite a few trailers with my Jeep at never had problems like this.
I had other issues with the Jeep and replaced it with a Chevy Silverado - what a difference. I've towed that same camper over 1300 miles with the new truck, sans sway controller, and haven't had any sway at all, even at Interstate speeds in the mountains of Pennsylvania.
The Jeep had a short wheelbase and was narrower than the Clipper so I think the tail was wagging the dog.
I have little or no sway when towing my Fleetwood Niagara with either my Ram or my Durango. I've got the friction sway bar and that seems to do the trick. On a long trip, I tend to forget the camper is back there (which could be dangerous)!
Wavery's definately got the right answers to this question. Set it up as he suggests and take it for a spin.
Interesting about your Jeep Dave. Is it possible that it had "P" rated passenger car sized tires on it, rather than the "LT" light truck rated tires? Reason I ask is because when I bought my Suburban a few years ago, the PO's had put "P" rated tires on it. It was like driving on marshmellows, and it was literally all over the road. I replaced those rags with "LT" rated tires and it was transformed into a truck again. I've seen people putting "P" rated tires on Vanagons and that makes for a scary ride as well, especially in a crosswind!
Quote from: austinado16Wavery's definately got the right answers to this question. Set it up as he suggests and take it for a spin.
Interesting about your Jeep Dave. Is it possible that it had "P" rated passenger car sized tires on it, rather than the "LT" light truck rated tires? Reason I ask is because when I bought my Suburban a few years ago, the PO's had put "P" rated tires on it. It was like driving on marshmellows, and it was literally all over the road. I replaced those rags with "LT" rated tires and it was transformed into a truck again. I've seen people putting "P" rated tires on Vanagons and that makes for a scary ride as well, especially in a crosswind!
You're probably right, it did have P tires. It also had 130000 miles and most of the electronics didn't work anymore. It was a money pit for the last 2 years and had to go.
OK, having only pulled my camper for about.. oh 3000 miles last year in 2 trips, crazy I know. Once hubby didn't sinch down my sway bars enough and I thought we would shimmy right off the road!! Scary! I am a firm believer in sway bars, we have 2, and I wouldn't leave the house without them. My father (certified CDL driver with exp w/ trailers, and heavy machinery) LOVES both my brake controller and my sway bars, he took it for a spin around the block, and fell in love, and was totally pleased that we did in fact get both, as optional safety features. He will not tow a trailer without sways or brake controllers, he's debating on switching to the kind I have in their conversion van, that's what they use to tow their hay believe it or not. The brake controller we have is a brake-tite, nto sure of the exact model, but I do love it!
Box Size Classification16 ft
Gross Veh. Weight Rating4,600 lbs
Unloaded Vehicle Weight3,710 lbs
Unloaded Tongue Weight265 lbs
Max. Carrying Capacity890 lbs
Front Storage Trunk Cap.NA
Cabinet Storage Cap.46 cu.ft.
Total Storage Capacity46 cu.ft.
Tire SizeST205/75D14
Dimensions Open (L x W)28' 10" x 10' 6"
Dimensions Closed (L x W)21' 3" x 7' 5"
Height (Open)9' 0"
Height (Closed)5' 7"
For those interested, here's the website for our camper, I promise I will get around to getting pictures up! Color scheme, is an olive green and tannish brown leaves thingy..lol
http://www.fleetwoodcampingtrailers.com/model_detail.aspx?mid=33&sid=5
Yep, "P"assenger car tires on an SUV will screw you every time. The Suburban was so bad it swayed on it's own. At about 55 is was nearly undriveable because it would set up this little oscillation. You'd provide a little steering input to correct, then it would sort of "bounce" off that input and come back the other direction. I was ready to start replacing steering components and took at closer look at the tires, "P235-15".....what the.....?
That being said, you've got a great truck now and it was an excellent trade up for you.
If the front doesn't match the rear, the rear is going to sway.
I towed three popups with four different minivans and didn't have a sway bar. No problems at all.
Then I tried to hookup a Coleman Mesa with a Toyota Sienna with the tow package. I couldn't hit 30 mph without sway. Put the sway bar on and no problems.
I currently tow a 30 foot tt with a Silverado 2500. Drove it about 1000 miles without sway control and it handled fine. However, since I plan to do a lot of towing with this rig, I put on sway control. Just some additional low cost insurance.
Quote from: 6fordaroadOK, having only pulled my camper for about.. oh 3000 miles last year in 2 trips, crazy I know. Once hubby didn't sinch down my sway bars enough and I thought we would shimmy right off the road!! Scary! I am a firm believer in sway bars, we have 2, and I wouldn't leave the house without them. My father (certified CDL driver with exp w/ trailers, and heavy machinery) LOVES both my brake controller and my sway bars, he took it for a spin around the block, and fell in love, and was totally pleased that we did in fact get both, as optional safety features. He will not tow a trailer without sways or brake controllers, he's debating on switching to the kind I have in their conversion van, that's what they use to tow their hay believe it or not. The brake controller we have is a brake-tite, nto sure of the exact model, but I do love it!
Box Size Classification16 ft
Gross Veh. Weight Rating4,600 lbs
Unloaded Vehicle Weight3,710 lbs
Unloaded Tongue Weight265 lbs
Max. Carrying Capacity890 lbs
Front Storage Trunk Cap.NA
Cabinet Storage Cap.46 cu.ft.
Total Storage Capacity46 cu.ft.
Tire SizeST205/75D14
Dimensions Open (L x W)28' 10" x 10' 6"
Dimensions Closed (L x W)21' 3" x 7' 5"
Height (Open)9' 0"
Height (Closed)5' 7"
For those interested, here's the website for our camper, I promise I will get around to getting pictures up! Color scheme, is an olive green and tannish brown leaves thingy..lol
http://www.fleetwoodcampingtrailers.com/model_detail.aspx?mid=33&sid=5
You need to check your loaded tongue weight. It should be over 500#. If it isn't, that will cause sway. Also, be sure that the trailer is level when towing. If the front is just 1" higher than the rear, it will sway.
That's a nice PU. It's a lot of trailer for your '02 Explorer.
Quote from: waveryYou need to check your loaded tongue weight. It should be over 500#. If it isn't, that will cause sway.....That's a nice PU. It's a lot of trailer for your '02 Explorer.
Are you sure about that tongue weight Wayne? The specs for the trail say the tongue weight is only 265lbs.
I don't know what my tongue weight is, but I can lift it, and my camper comes in at 1,300 with a gross of 2,200 or so.
Handfixer,
As I stated in your last post your tongue weight will be over 400 lbs.
If you should deiced to get a WD hitch setup it should take care of the sway and bounce.
Phil
Quote from: austinado16Are you sure about that tongue weight Wayne? The specs for the trail say the tongue weight is only 265lbs.
I don't know what my tongue weight is, but I can lift it, and my camper comes in at 1,300 with a gross of 2,200 or so.
Austinado, your tongue weight probably
is around 265 pounds, depending on how you load. However, Wayne's statement was regarding the Avalon trailer by Fleetwood, which is HUGE. A monster compared to your popup (and my old popups).
Larry
Quote from: austinado16Are you sure about that tongue weight Wayne? The specs for the trail say the tongue weight is only 265lbs.
I don't know what my tongue weight is, but I can lift it, and my camper comes in at 1,300 with a gross of 2,200 or so.
Ya.......the specs on the Avalon are 265# "
Unloaded Tongue weight". That means nothing in the forward box, no propane bottles and no battery.
Std rule of thumb is between 10-15% of
LOADED weight should be on the tongue. That trailer has a GVW of 4600# that would call for between 460-690# of tongue weight (fully loaded).
That trailer would probably sway empty (3,710#), right from the factory, on nearly any TV. The stock tongue weight is quite low @ 265# so that the front storage compartment can handle a lot of weight. However it only has about 7% tongue weight empty.
Quote from: waveryYou need to check your loaded tongue weight. It should be over 500#. If it isn't, that will cause sway. Also, be sure that the trailer is level when towing. If the front is just 1" higher than the rear, it will sway.
That's a nice PU. It's a lot of trailer for your '02 Explorer.
It is a lot for my TV but it handles it all amazingly well, including all 4 kids, a dog and all the junk for travelling 900 miles one way!
Haven't checked my loaded tongue weight, but we don't typically have it fully loaded. All we keep in the storage box for travel is 5 chairs, 2 cases of water, a case of soda, 3 boxes of capri sun, and all the hardware, chalks, crank handles, crank wired remote, very small tool kit and a mid sized bottle of bleach. Then inside I keep all of our bedding, a very light television and 2 days worth of dry goods, and 2 20 qt storage bins, one with clothes, and one with personal hygiene/first aid stuff. We do our cold food shopping in wherever we are staying, if needed.
Then of course we also have our deep cycle marine battery, and 2, 20# propane tanks. But my Explorer, I should tell you, is the V8 model of the Explorer, rated at 5500 lbs towing capacity. So we are right there. I'd like a bigger TV... you wanna buy me one?? lol
Ahhhh......thanks for the explanation guys. Man, that is one HUGE camper!
Quote from: austinado16Ahhhh......thanks for the explanation guys. Man, that is one HUGE camper!
LOL!!! It has to be, we are a family of 6 plus a large 4-legged baby. And we REALLY don't like being on top of each other.
I remember bringing our Jayco 1006 home for the first time. We had to use I-80 to get home. I cringed the first time I saw a semi gaining on us, knowing he was going to pass us. I thought for sure the semi going by us would blow us around. I was very surprised that the semi going by made little affect on our Windstar and Jayco. I have found with the 700 miles towing our Jayco that it is very stable behind our Windstar. We have P215/70R15 tires on the Windstar so "P" series tires can be OK as long as other factors like wheelbase, weight distribution, and trailer design don't make the rig susceptible to sway.
This is only my second season with the pup. The first year we had really bad problems with sway. Just installed a friction sway bar today and WOW what a difference.
I had the same questions when we bought our Pup last season. I pull a very large unit with a small TV. The Jeep XJ is short and narrow and light. Our Pup is close to 4000# when loaded. Sway was a major issue. I set it up with high performance brakes in the front, this weight distribution hitch made for Pups http://www.drawtite-hitches.com/products/Single_Arm_Weight_Distribution_Hitch_Kit_for_A_Frame_Trailers,3205 friction sway control and a tranny cooler. I pulled once w/o the wdh while it was on order and would never do it again. Next to come is a larger alternator and high performance shocks.
For anyone pulling a large Pup with a small SUV, van or truck I highly recommend the hitch. It
Quote from: austinado16Wavery's definately got the right answers to this question. Set it up as he suggests and take it for a spin.
Interesting about your Jeep Dave. Is it possible that it had "P" rated passenger car sized tires on it, rather than the "LT" light truck rated tires? Reason I ask is because when I bought my Suburban a few years ago, the PO's had put "P" rated tires on it. It was like driving on marshmellows, and it was literally all over the road. I replaced those rags with "LT" rated tires and it was transformed into a truck again. I've seen people putting "P" rated tires on Vanagons and that makes for a scary ride as well, especially in a crosswind!
That is what I was going to say. The tires deffinatly have a huge effect on how a TV reacts. Thicker the sidewall the better.