Fleetwood Folding trailers may be dead now as Fleetwood is selling the folding trailer division and plant. It may be bought by a company continueing on with a different name or may be just killled off.
Beware on any new Fleetwood purchases as service and warranty are questionable now.
Read more information here. (//%22http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/21347815.cfm%22)
Good luck to all of those who own new Fleetwood PUPs.
Have a good one.
The people I 've spoken with at FFT are very positive about the purchase. They told me a private equity firm purchased the company from Fleetwood.
They'll keep the same management and the products will be Fleetwood campers for at least the next year.
The new company believes there will be a rebound in pop up sales as the country adjusts to its new economy.
I'm on their side.
D.
Quote from: PopUPTimesThe people I 've spoken with at FFT are very positive about the purchase. They told me a private equity firm purchased the company from Fleetwood.
They'll keep the same management and the products will be Fleetwood campers for at least the next year.
The new company believes there will be a rebound in pop up sales as the country adjusts to its new economy.
I'm on their side.
D.
Can you say who the new company is?? Forest River seems to be the one company the swallows up failing trailer companies so they are my guess. But honestly I hated the quality and lack of service I received from Forest River on my Rockwood PUP so I'm hoping it's someone else. Perhaps the Jayco/Starcraft holding company, or even Coachmen RV (Clipper/Viking).
Thanks and have a good one.
Gee Mike don't you read the current posts: http://www.arveeclub.com/showthread.php?t=65870 (//%22http://www.arveeclub.com/showthread.php?t=65870%22)
Quote from: Mike UpCan you say who the new company is?? Forest River seems to be the one company the swallows up failing trailer companies so they are my guess. But honestly I hated the quality and lack of service I received from Forest River on my Rockwood PUP so I'm hoping it's someone else. Perhaps the Jayco/Starcraft holding company, or even Coachmen RV (Clipper/Viking).
Thanks and have a good one.
They weren't at liberty to tell me much, especially as a magazine publisher, but did say that it's a private equity company not currently affiliated with the RV industry.
I would have guessed Forest River too (who is owned by Berkshire Hathaway), but it isn't. Who ever bought FFT must be serious as I'm sure the price tag is Big.
The deal should be completed soon and we'll all know.
Quote from: mike4947Gee Mike don't you read the current posts: http://www.arveeclub.com/showthread.php?t=65870
I don't have time to go through every single thread. I did look through the pages and found no mention of Fleetwood in any of the thread subject headings though.;)
Have a good one.
Quote from: Mike UpI don't have time to go through every single thread. I did look through the pages and found no mention of Fleetwood in any of the thread subject headings though.;)
Have a good one.
Hey Mike; here's a real time-saver: In the upper right area of the PopupTimes window there's a link named "View New Posts." If you click on that, the software goes through all the different forums and picks out any posts that are new since your last visit (assuming you are "logged in.") I find it to be a neat way to keep up with what's going on in the forums without having to actually look into each one of them.
-Speak
"The new company believes there will be a rebound in pop up sales as the country adjusts to its new economy. "
I also hope and would think that RV companies may well see a surge in PU sales as we fast approach $4.00 / gal gas prices. I certainly can't imaging towing a large TT or 5er at this stage. I'll keep my 2,700 lb Jayco and my 22 mpg highway minivan.
Just read the news after I spent the whole day installing an eight track player & my beta tape player in my 2006 Fleetwood Pop Up. I sure hope service, parts & dealer locations don't suffer too much.....
Honda is staying in the SUV business, right?
Quote from: PopUPTimesThey weren't at liberty to tell me much, especially as a magazine publisher, but did say that it's a private equity company not currently affiliated with the RV industry.
I would have guessed Forest River too (who is owned by Berkshire Hathaway), but it isn't. Who ever bought FFT must be serious as I'm sure the price tag is Big.
The deal should be completed soon and we'll all know.
I would not think that the sell off would effect warranties. do you? I am/was considering buying a new fleetwood saratoga or williamsburg in the immediate futre. I am certain the purchaser would assume all warranties and liabilities in the purchase agreement.
Warranties should still be covered by the purchaser, I would guess.
Maybe Coleman is the purchaser. Wouldn't that be great?
As already stated, it is a private equity investment firm. Coleman is no longer a company on it own per se, but is a name owned by or a subsidiary of American Home.
Somerset, PA., May 12, 2008
Quote from: PopUPTimesSomerset, PA., May 12, 2008
Quote from: PopUPTimesSomerset, PA., May 12, 2008
5/14 - purchase has been completed. Please check the FleetwoodRV website for the 'news' of the purchaser. It's been purchased by an investment group.
And the new owner is
Folding Trailer Company Acquisition Inc., (FTCA)
how creative. Wonder how long it took Blackstreet to come up with that?
Quote from: coachAnd the new owner is
Folding Trailer Company Acquisition Inc., (FTCA)
how creative. Wonder how long it took Blackstreet to come up with that?
Spoke with my local dealer yesterday and he assured me that there would be no problems with the warranties. He doubly assured me that his dealership would continue to service and be able to get any and all needed parts. In fact he said their regional rep was down last week and assured all of them that there would be no problems incurred b/c of the sale.
Quote from: jbbSpoke with my local dealer yesterday and he assured me that there would be no problems with the warranties. He doubly assured me that his dealership would continue to service and be able to get any and all needed parts. In fact he said their regional rep was down last week and assured all of them that there would be no problems incurred b/c of the sale.
I'm guessing that you are correct, but if I were thinking about buying a new trailer I would wait until (FTCA) anounces their intentions not the sales rep. The sales rep probably knows as much as we do.
Quote from: Done WorkingI'm guessing that you are correct, but if I were thinking about buying a new trailer I would wait until (FTCA) anounces their intentions not the sales rep. The sales rep probably knows as much as we do.
I take comfort that it was from a regional rep and not a local salesman. However, under warranty law they would have to honor what ever deal I strike. The purchase agreement will require FTCA to assume all debts and liabilities. If they did not honor the warranty of the contract signed they would be facing breach of warranty, breach of K, and fraud, misrep etc.
The more long range problem would be service and parts beyond the warranty period.
I don't know anything about how business works but there is something I don't understand here. If you look at the Fleetwood website news section, they say that the Folding Camper division is winning awards for their sales and quality. Why would Fleetwood want to sell such a profitable company? I think I will let the dust settle before I get my new PUP.
I had a few minutes to kill yesterday after driving to the next town to check on a job site. There's a dealer that carries Fleetwood pups not far away, so I stopped in just to look around. They keep one of every model set up, I think. The only one I didn't see set up (that I know about) was the Avalon. They had the E3, the Niagara, and several models from the small ones up to the Niagaras.
A nice young man followed me around and showed me the different models, even though I explained up front that I was just browsing and wasn't shopping. When I asked him what the word was from the Fleetwood sale, he looked surprised and said, "I'm surprised you know about that." I told him that it was all over the pup forums.
He's trying to be confident, I'm sure, and instill confidence in prospective buyers.
Maybe they're getting rid of the PU's because sales are down. Maybe sales are down cause they're building crap. My 2006 Fleetwood Timberlake breaks every time we move it. The last trip we went on I broke the door latch AGAIN and also a hinge on the sink. Yesterday I was moving it and bent the tongue jack...AGAIN.
Per an 8-k Filing by Fleetwood this afternoon:
On May 12, 2008, the Company and the Seller completed the sale of the stock of Folding Trailers to the Stock Buyer pursuant to the Amended and Restated Stock Purchase Agreement, and Folding Trailers completed the sale of the real estate associated with the Folding Trailers operation to the Real Estate Buyer pursuant to the Real Estate Purchase Agreement.
The aggregate purchase price for the real estate and the stock combined was $10.71 million, subject to certain post-closing adjustments as set forth in the amended and restated Stock Purchase Agreement. In connection with the sale, both the Stock Buyer and the Real Estate Buyer assumed substantially all of the operating assets and liabilities of Folding Trailers, including ongoing warranty obligations but excluding pending litigation. The sale is expected to result in a loss of approximately $7.6 million after transaction costs, of which $6.3 million is attributable to the write-down of goodwill. The Company will reflect Folding Trailers as discontinued operations in the fourth quarter of fiscal 2008 and will record the loss in the same period.
The Company will use $3,664,428 of the proceeds of the sale to partially prepay the outstanding principal balance of the Company
7,000,000 for real estate, buildings etc.
3,710,000 to be in an unprofitable folding camper business!
The license agreement is missing form the 8-k!
QuoteIn connection with the sale, both the Stock Buyer and the Real Estate Buyer assumed substantially all of the operating assets and liabilities of Folding Trailers, including ongoing warranty obligations but excluding pending litigation.
Which means the parent company; which said the folding trailer division was souly responsible for the Fleetwood/Coleman lawsuit settlement; is going to absorb the cost. I was wondering where that $12 million judgment was going to end up.
I had a very good conversation with the President of FTCA this morning. They have some very positive goals for FFT's customers that I'll touch on in our next issue.
Quote from: PopUPTimesThey weren't at liberty to tell me much, especially as a magazine publisher, but did say that it's a private equity company not currently affiliated with the RV industry.
I would have guessed Forest River too (who is owned by Berkshire Hathaway), but it isn't. Who ever bought FFT must be serious as I'm sure the price tag is Big.
The deal should be completed soon and we'll all know.
Dave,
We JUST bought a Fleetwood Westlake new last Saturday!
I can't flipping beleive this! UGH!!!!!!!!!!!
I really hope whomever purchased this company is planning on keeping replacement parts on hand because I am planning on keeping this one for quite a few years 4 minimum! It would be GREAT however if Coleman would take back over their pop ups were first rate! Please keep us all informed!!!! All info is appriciated! :yikes: :eyecrazy: :yikes: :eyecrazy: MJ
Quote from: MJohnDave,
We JUST bought a Fleetwood Westlake new last Saturday!
I can't flipping beleive this! UGH!!!!!!!!!!!
I really hope whomever purchased this company is planning on keeping replacement parts on hand because I am planning on keeping this one for quite a few years 4 minimum! It would be GREAT however if Coleman would take back over their pop ups were first rate! Please keep us all informed!!!! All info is appriciated! :yikes: :eyecrazy: :yikes: :eyecrazy: MJ
I felt pretty good about FTCA after my conversation with their chief, I wrote a short article about my interview with him chief for the magazine. Plus I've spoken with FFT's National Sales Mgr several times who is very positive. I'd look for good things to come.
BTW - Coleman is just a name that they license (rent out), they don't make anything.
Dave, you have put out quite a teaser for the next issue...I know I can't wait :-()
When does the next issue hit the mail?
Look what I got in an email today:
Fleetwood Fun in the Sun Sales Event (http://www.fleetwoodcampingtrailers.com/promo_funsun.aspx?utm_source=FFT+Customers&utm_campaign=Fleetwood_Fun_In_The_Sun_sales_event5_28_2008&utm_medium=email)
Some nice incentives for anyone looking for a new PUP...
I ask my local fleetwood dealer here in canada and he said, I know nothing about Fleetwood selling anything... either he was lying, or maybe the news hasn't filtered down through all the dealers yet...
"I would not think that the sell off would effect warranties. do you? I am/was considering buying a new fleetwood saratoga or williamsburg in the immediate futre. I am certain the purchaser would assume all warranties and liabilities in the purchase agreement."
Irrespective of the sell-off by Fleetwood, we just bought an '08 Avalon. Rather than influence our buy based on a short-term warranty, we decided to buy based on long-term camper satisfaction.
From experience we also believe that buying from a reputable dealership will see us through repairs with the best chances for satisfaction, both in-and-out of warranty and regardless of the manufacturer.
Happy Camping!
Quote from: lazzara55"I would not think that the sell off would effect warranties. do you? I am/was considering buying a new fleetwood saratoga or williamsburg in the immediate futre. I am certain the purchaser would assume all warranties and liabilities in the purchase agreement."
Irrespective of the sell-off by Fleetwood, we just bought an '08 Avalon. Rather than influence our buy based on a short-term warranty, we decided to buy based on long-term camper satisfaction.
From experience we also believe that buying from a reputable dealership will see us through repairs with the best chances for satisfaction, both in-and-out of warranty and regardless of the manufacturer.
Happy Camping!
That reputable dealer won't be able to help you if parts become unavailable in a few years when they sell the company off to someone else and they close up shop.
We had considered a new Westlake in a couple of years, but won't be buying one now. The future for parts is too uncertain and our local dealer is NOT reputable. lies about parts being unavaialable now (they just had our 1993 Roanoke for 4 weeks!) when a quick call to the factory says just the opposite! That aside, we have looked at Starcraft and Palomino as our second and third choices. They have very similar floor plans to the Westlake, the prices are better, and they shouldn't be going out of business anytime soon.
Quote from: sewseriousThat reputable dealer won't be able to help you if parts become unavailable in a few years when they sell the company off to someone else and they close up shop.
We had considered a new Westlake in a couple of years, but won't be buying one now. The future for parts is too uncertain and our local dealer is NOT reputable. lies about parts being unavaialable now (they just had our 1993 Roanoke for 4 weeks!) when a quick call to the factory says just the opposite! That aside, we have looked at Starcraft and Palomino as our second and third choices. They have very similar floor plans to the Westlake, the prices are better, and they shouldn't be going out of business anytime soon.
IMHO - with the vast number of Fleetwood/Coleman campers out there, there will be an abundant supply of parts for a very, very long time to come. Remember, this is capitalist America in which enterprising people are always looking for a way to make a buck.
-Speak
I know that if I was going to trade in my Coleman Bayside, I wouldn't hesitate to go with another Fleetwood. There will still be service, there will still be parts...
The way I see it, FFT has to be much better off without Fleetwood as their parent company. Fleetwood is having big financial problems and is selling off more than the folding camper division. I'd be more hesitant buying a Fleetwood motorhome or travel trailer and not an FFT pop up. The new owners told me that they intend to make their new company profitable again and keeping it strong.
Quote from: sewseriousThat reputable dealer won't be able to help you if parts become unavailable in a few years when they sell the company off to someone else and they close up shop.
Haven't Fleetwood/Coleman popups been the best selling for years? I highly doubt that they would close up shop, and with the big installed base I'm sure any Fleetwood specific parts will be around for a long time. Plus, the vast majority of the parts on the units that would probably break seem to pretty much be generic.
Quote from: butterflyfishLook what I got in an email today:
Fleetwood Fun in the Sun Sales Event
Some nice incentives for anyone looking for a new PUP...
That is like their late winter special. I wonder if they are trying to get rid of the 2008 inventory.:)
Quote from: HackkerHaven't Fleetwood/Coleman popups been the best selling for years?
At the turn of the century they had a 40+% market share.
Been dropping last couple of years.
02 = 43%
06 = 39%
07 = 36%
Quote from: sewserious....We had considered a new Westlake in a couple of years, but won't be buying one now. The future for parts is too uncertain and our local dealer is NOT reputable....
Sorry to hear that the local dealer is not reputable. It seems to be an RV industry trend!
How many parts do you envision needing? Unless you are one of the folks who end up with a lemon, there really isn't much proprietary stuff that will break.
You might stock up on awning pole tips, or bunk end slide stops, or other plastic parts that only Fleetwood would carry. But, virtually everything else is repairable or generic.
.
Quote from: beacherSorry to hear that the local dealer is not reputable. It seems to be an RV industry trend!
How many parts do you envision needing? Unless you are one of the folks who end up with a lemon, there really isn't much proprietary stuff that will break.
You might stock up on awning pole tips, or bunk end slide stops, or other plastic parts that only Fleetwood would carry. But, virtually everything else is repairable or generic.
.
The main parts of the lift system aren't generic!
Quote from: sewseriousThe main parts of the lift system aren't generic!
I have only seen a post or 2 in these forums about Coleman/FFT lift system failures. If the new owners decide to close the company and throw their investment away I'm sure there are lots of parts available. :eyecrazy:
Oh the new owners won't close it, but whoever they sell it to might! The new owners are an investment firm, they won't hold on to the investment once it starts making good money (if it ever does). Then, who knows? The future is just too uncertain for the fate of FFT for me to invest in a new one right now.
It's possible parts will never be available for FFTs again. Possible but not likely. I have a 1965 Ford Mustang. If a part I need isn't made by Ford, then there is a third party that makes it because they know there is a need for it and can cash in on that need. If no third party makes it, then there is always the junk yard where you can find the part on a car just sitting there for salvage.
Cars and Pups are two different animals, but if the chance to make a lot of cash is there, another company will make the parts. Who knows, one of the people on the forum here may become rich just by filling the need of the folding trailer folks. :p
anyone seen the license agreement?
The agreement requires FTCA can't be named Fleetwood, it did not suggest that the trailers wouldn't be Fleetwoods (see license agreement).
It was not included with Fleetwood's sec filing.
Since FTCA is private, we'll probably never see it from them.
"...That reputable dealer won't be able to help you if parts become unavailable in a few years when they sell the company off to someone else and they close up shop."
:yikes: Yikes! That's a pretty grim prediction, but I can't refute your experiences.
OK, perhaps I should have written "reputable, full-service dealer." My dealer has an expansive service area performing everything from bolt-on part replacements to welding services. They'll repair/replace nearly anything from a rotted floor to a leaking roof. And they reverse-engineer what's no longer on the market with what is available.
Deja vu? :eyecrazy:
Our first camper was a Coleman. We bought it the year Fleetwood took over that Brand. We were told at the time "...oh-no, you're in trouble: Fleetwood's quality is suspect / they only want to sell big-rigs / parts won't be supported and Fleetwood isn't commited to new tent trailer models." Since then my dealer performed warranty work on our A/C (fan controller) and in-fact did improve on problems that plagued Coleman (such as leaking roofs). Not only did Fleetwood subsequently introduce new models, they took the pop-up genre to a new scope & scale that Coleman arguably was under-budgeted to pursue (e.g., toy haulers, off-roaders, electric lifts, and the largest production pop-up models in the industry).
So when we heard the gloom & doom concerns about Fleetwood doing a sell-off of their tent trailer line, we paused, reflected, and realised there's no guarantee any alternate brand will be around this time next year.
The sky didn't fall on Coleman owners (please reply if otherwise!) It's unseen that the sky is going to fall on Fleetwood owners. Until then, buy from a reputable and full-service dealership and - most importantly - buy what you really want ;).
Happy Camping!...........Bob
Please let me know of any new info on the fleetwood sale. I am currently in the market for a 2005 or newer fleetwood popup and this might make me consider a different brand. Will this make it difficult to get parts or service? I recently visited a rockwood dealer and they said they could not keep popups on the lot because of the demand.
Quote from: tlhdocThat is like their late winter special. I wonder if they are trying to get rid of the 2008 inventory.:)
Hi Tracy,
We have the exact same PUP you do... I've looked at your winter camping photos--and am wondering how you do it?! I would like to expand my camping season (we live in Colorado), but have shied away from it so far. What tips and tricks have you found that work in cold weather? Have you tried solar canvas covers?
Thanks much!!!
Greg
99 Coleman Nevada
01 Toyota Sequoia
It is pretty standard in a sale agreement to continue to service models made by the seller - so that really should not be a problem. And, if you really think about it, what 'parts' are strictly Coleman/Fleetwood? Basically just the roof/floor/frame - and, the warranty will be honored by the buying concern as part of the sales agreement.
Quote from: reneesueHi Tracy,
We have the exact same PUP you do... I've looked at your winter camping photos--and am wondering how you do it?! I would like to expand my camping season (we live in Colorado), but have shied away from it so far. What tips and tricks have you found that work in cold weather? Have you tried solar canvas covers?
Hi Greg,
I hope you enjoy your camper as much as I do mine. There aren't that many Nevada's out there. How long have you had your Nevada? For cold weather here is what I do. I purchased 6 accordion folding windshield sunshades that have foam in the middle. I cut them to fit inside the bunkend windows. I unzip the window and put the sunshades in and then zipper them back up. If I did this again I would just put the sunshades down between the bed frame ant the tenting. I also put 1 X 1 X 36 inch air conditioner foam insulating strips between the tenting and the bunkend frame. There is a lot of air that comes in around the beds. During the day I close off the bunkend curtains to keep more heat in the camper box. I prefer to have electric hookups (or have an extra battery) for winter camping. I use my air conditioners heat setting along with one or two cube heaters to keep the PU warm. The AC blows the warm air into the bunkends to keep them warm. If you use 2 cube heaters you need to run an extension cord to the electric post to run the second heater. 2 electric heaters on the same circuit will trip the circuit breaker. I do not fill up my water tank or use my faucet. I do pour water down the drain. I also use the cassette potty. I have not had any problem with it freezing. If the camper is warm it will not freeze. I have rubber backed rungs on the floor and in the shower stall. It makes the floor much warmer on your feet. If you have snow you need to keep the snow off of the bunkends and the roof. The bunkends are easy. Lay on your back on the bed and use your feet to shake the snow off. A step ladder (picnic table will work) and a broom are needed to sweep snow off of the camper's roof. I can't think of anything more at this time.