I am considering purchasing the Fleetwood Williamsburg or the Fleetwood saratoga. However, not sure now with the recent news about Fleetwood selling off. What other mfg's provide similar pop ups with showers and toilet would the group suggest.
As for the fleetwoods, I am leaning toward williamsburg b/c it is lighter and a little cheaper. would there be a noticeable difference in towing gas mileage between the lighter williamsburg and the saratoga. I drive a landcruiser so I am already getting crappy mpg.
TIA.
I think your mileage while towing is going to poor, no matter what camper you get in that size range. Sure, it might be a little better with the lighter one, probably not by much unless you're talking about a big weight difference.....and not just a few hundred pounds.
Buy the camper you really want and enjoy it. Keep the camper tires aired up at their max (probably 80psi), keep your TV tires aired up to nearly their max or to their max rating, keep your speed down and you'll get about as good a mileage as you're gonna get considering the ill effect the ethanol in our fuel has on gas mileage.
Thanks.
Quote from: jbbI am considering purchasing the Fleetwood Williamsburg or the Fleetwood saratoga. However, not sure now with the recent news about Fleetwood selling off. What other mfg's provide similar pop ups with showers and toilet would the group suggest.
As for the fleetwoods, I am leaning toward williamsburg b/c it is lighter and a little cheaper. would there be a noticeable difference in towing gas mileage between the lighter williamsburg and the saratoga. I drive a landcruiser so I am already getting crappy mpg.
TIA.
I have a Coleman (fleetwood) Niagra which is on the large size. When I tow it, I loose about 1.5 mpg. I would get what you want w/o using gas mileage as a factor.
Quote from: MomboTNI have a Coleman (fleetwood) Niagra which is on the large size. When I tow it, I loose about 1.5 mpg. I would get what you want w/o using gas mileage as a factor.
I am looking at the Saratoga which is in the same group as yours just a little smaller. Are you pleased with the shower and toilet? What are you towing with?
Everyone's needs are different. My pup made the most sense to me when I was considering a pup and you can get almost any amenity you would like to have in one. Mine has all I would ever need. Toilet, shower, radio and with mine, a lot of space. It is 28' opened. Gotta have my space too ya know! LOL
Quote from: jbbI am looking at the Saratoga which is in the same group as yours just a little smaller. Are you pleased with the shower and toilet? What are you towing with?
I pull with a Ford Expedition w/ the 5.4L engine and electric brakes. I go to the bath house but the wife and daughter love not having to go out in the middle of the night. We don't use the shower but don't have a reason. The places we camp have nice bath houses. We don't use the AC much either. They are nice to have when needed but I don't like to hear the AC and don't mind the walk to take a shower.
Good luck with your new vacation home.
Quote from: jbbI am looking at the Saratoga which is in the same group as yours just a little smaller. Are you pleased with the shower and toilet? What are you towing with?
The
Coleman Niagara is the current Fleetwood Williamsburg, not the high sided Fleetwood Niagara that is sold now.:)
Quote from: tlhdocThe Coleman Niagara is the current Fleetwood Williamsburg, not the high sided Fleetwood Niagara that is sold now.:)
Please elaborate. . .
Quote from: MomboTNI pull with a Ford Expedition w/ the 5.4L engine and electric brakes. I go to the bath house but the wife and daughter love not having to go out in the middle of the night. We don't use the shower but don't have a reason. The places we camp have nice bath houses. We don't use the AC much either. They are nice to have when needed but I don't like to hear the AC and don't mind the walk to take a shower.
Good luck with your new vacation home.
In light of the subsequent post re coleman niagra v. fleetwood niagra, do you have the highside niagra?
Quote from: jbbIn light of the subsequent post re coleman niagra v. fleetwood niagra, do you have the highside niagra?
No mine is a 2000 model. I am heading out with it in a couple hours for a checkout night.
Quote from: jbbPlease elaborate. . .
Coleman and Fleetwood have used the same model names on may different trailers over the years. Coleman never made any high sided trailers, so a Coleman Niagara is a low sided trailer, like the current Williamsburg. Not a high sided trailer like the the current Saratoga. The Niagara had been the top of the line Coleman and Fleetwood trailer model for years, but it was a low sided trailer up through 2004. In 2005 Fleetwood put the name Niagara on one of the high sided trailers and did not have a floor plan like the current Williamsburg trailer (the old Niagara floor plan). In 2006 fleetwood brought the floor plan back and called the trailer the Williamsburg.:)
Quote from: tlhdocColeman and Fleetwood have used the same model names on may different trailers over the years. Coleman never made any high sided trailers, so a Coleman Niagara is a low sided trailer, like the current Williamsburg. Not a high sided trailer like the the current Saratoga. The Niagara had been the top of the line Coleman and Fleetwood trailer model for years, but it was a low sided trailer up through 2004. In 2005 Fleetwood put the name Niagara on one of the high sided trailers and did not have a floor plan like the current Williamsburg trailer (the old Niagara floor plan). In 2006 fleetwood brought the floor plan back and called the trailer the Williamsburg.:)
I don't understand why they do that. I have a 2002 Tacoma and the new PU that Fleetwood just brought out is a 14' box with no bunk-ends and they call that a "Tacoma" :eyecrazy:
Quote from: waveryI don't understand why they do that. I have a 2002 Tacoma and the new PU that Fleetwood just brought out is a 14' box with no bunk-ends and they call that a "Tacoma" :eyecrazy:
Coleman and Fleetwood have both done this with the PU campers. To know what a floor plan is, you have to know the model and the year it was built.:)
Quote from: tlhdocColeman and Fleetwood have used the same model names on may different trailers over the years. Coleman never made any high sided trailers, so a Coleman Niagara is a low sided trailer, like the current Williamsburg. Not a high sided trailer like the the current Saratoga. The Niagara had been the top of the line Coleman and Fleetwood trailer model for years, but it was a low sided trailer up through 2004. In 2005 Fleetwood put the name Niagara on one of the high sided trailers and did not have a floor plan like the current Williamsburg trailer (the old Niagara floor plan). In 2006 fleetwood brought the floor plan back and called the trailer the Williamsburg.:)
Of which I have one. It's a nice floor plan, but I wish I had the gray and black water holding tanks. That is the only extra I really would love to have. You have to get into a highlander to have those extras though. nearly double the price of your camper as well. A couple years and they will be pretty inexpensive in the used papers.
Buy the unit you really want. Otherwise, you will regret it.
As far as mpg. towing - I don't notice much difference once on the highway vs. stop and go. I'm sure weight and profile/wind resistance play a part, but not so much that it would prohibit me from purchasing the unit I will be most comfortable in for years to come.
When I was searching for a PUP and my requirements were AC and potty, seeing the counterspace in the Niagara pretty much sold me. And, I really love the unit.
Seeing the across the board price increases as a result of the gasoline price increases has meant I've had to eliminate some goods/services at home to afford making a trip.
We just figured out (this weekend) that our truck get 15 mpg hwy while pulling the pup and it was pretty loaded. I am pretty happy with those numbers. My van gets 16.9 mpg city, so 15 pulling the pup I think is good...
In fact, (and I posted this on another site), while we were setting up the pup, thus dude comes by and looks at DH and says... looks like fun. DH says yeah it's lots of fun and the kids love it and tells the guy we only just bought the pup and how great it has been. After he left, I tell DH I think he was being sarcastic (remember, I am formerly from LI, NY and we are known for our sarcasm and suspect it from everyone.) Later that night when we figured out the gas mileage, I told DH he should have told the guy how much fun it is and that we got 15 MPG and then ask him what he got pulling his...
I know my SIL's motorhome gets horrible gas mileage. I forgot what they said but I am sure it was way under 10 MPG, not pulling anything...
Quote from: tlhdoc....The Niagara had been the top of the line Coleman and Fleetwood trailer model for years, but it was a low sided trailer up through 2004. In 2005 Fleetwood put the name Niagara on one of the high sided trailers and did not have a floor plan like the current Williamsburg trailer (the old Niagara floor plan). In 2006 fleetwood brought the floor plan back and called the trailer the Williamsburg.:)
Actually, in 2004 the floorplan of the Fleetwood Grand Tour Elite Niagara was mirrored around the axle in order to help re-distribute the weight a little bit in order to improve the towing characteristics and reduce the sway issues that were common with the Coleman Niagara.
In 2005 the the Grand Tour Elite series was dropped, (and the Low-Sided Niagara floorplan was not offered for sale under any name). Only two floorplans of the Grand Tour series were offered, (Bayside, Utah). Too many people probably equated the Hemlock name with a poison, as opposed to an evergreen tree, so the name was dropped and the High-Sided Hemlock became the new Niagara in 2005.
In 2006 the Fleetwood Williamsburg Americana Series was introduced, resurrecting the Fleetwood GTE Niagara Low-Sided floorplan, (but without most of the Grand Tour Elite standard features). Technically, the Coleman Niagara Low-Sided floorplan was discontinued with the 2003 models. ;)
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