Quote from: GeneF.
I guess my question is, Why do parents feel that they have to entertain their children? Why can't they just let them find their own entertainment and perhaps join in that? What is wrong with reading a book instead of playing a video game?
On my original thread, I asked the above questions but I am not sure they were answered but instead I was given suggestions or reasons for electronics or not.
I think my first question here, "Why do parents feel that they have to entertain their children?" is my biggest one.
This doesn't only apply to camping but home life as well. I know that DW and I carted our two kids to games, school functions, etc but there were times when "Hey, do your thing and have fun" was the order of things.
So I guess I am looking for answers to my original questions.
My feeling is that parents need a life also and hey kids, find your own entertainment.
One of the nicest things about being empty nested, is that DW and I finally have more time for each other and realize, once again, why we married each other. Celebrated 33 years on Saturday. We gave our kids a lot of time, but every once in a while, we found time for ourselves.
First off 33 years, wow! Congratulatons! Dh and I just celebrated 14 years together. In my case, I have three DS's. One is 15, one is 13, and one is 8 weeks old. (Yes, two teenagers and a baby, please pray for me! LOL!) The older one tends to be bored when he doesn't have a video game or a TV in front of him. The only thing I can manage to get him to do that doesn't involve electricity is playing basketball outside. My middle son can make a game out of anything and entertain himself. When he was little, we would buy him toys and half the time he would be making a fort out of the box. My littlest guy loves when people talk to him. He is making sounds and is starting to hit the little toys dangling in front of him in his chair. Who knows which one he will end up being like! I just remember before all this electrical crap came out how we used to go outside and play all day and not come in until the streetlight were on. No video games, just our imagination.
I am in the middle of this now. I have a 25 yr old son who is on his own and that I raised on my own, and a 9 3/4 yr old daughter and yes it is fine for them to be bored and use their imagination. DS was diagnosed with cystic fybrosis at 3 yr old so too much physical activies while he was young was frustrating for him. I used to take him camping and exploring and was a den mother for 3 yrs so we could spend time together. By the time he hit 10 he wanted to play the trumpet in the school band so I let him (relunctantly) and also signed him up for lessons as well. This helped his breathing so much his breathing machine times were cut to almost nothing, he could run and play with the other kids. He went into remission. He knew how to find things for himself and his interests. He liked to read and create new games. I did not have cable or fast internet at that time. So television was limited to local stations.
My DD is a picture of health and does not have to be entertained or carted off to every function imaginable to human kind. DD friends who all they do is go from one child activities to another so no or little time is spent with the child. The kid does not know how to sit still or use their imagination and have to have crafts to do every waking moment or they sit in front of the television. There is no respect for authority or little to no attention for what is important.
DD has her issues with organization but she can enteratain herself. My DH and myself find as much time as we can to spend with her. She has never had a babysitter, that has been our choice. We chose to raise our child not someone else. She is involved in outside activities, Soccer which my DH coaches, Brownies which I help out at. I also volunteered at my church for 3 yrs and can't do it anymore because of the disrespect for authority from the children. I don't volunteer at school like I did because I got tired of the Mom cliques. Let them do it their way. I am there for my daughter.
We take our daughter camping and show her the simple things and let her explore. She has her responsibilities when we set up camp so we know where she is. No I don't bring crafts to keep her busy, I do have glow sticks and nature hike books we do as a family or with our camping friends. I try to keep it simplistic in this chaotic world. We have taken 4 cross country trips with DD in tow with no DVD player or television (almost unheard of today). We had her sight see out the window, follow maps, review math problems, practice spelling words or just plain talk.
We are going to camp and spend 4 nights at the Grand Canyon the first week of August. I do have a train ride lined up, dinner (for my and DH birthdays at the El Tovar Restaurant). I want to get DD signed up for the Jr Ranger progam when we arrive and also view the Condor Exhibit. We are also going to take short hike partially down into the canyon. I find it important to spend time with her and her be able to get along with other fellow campers. We try to teach her to be repectful of peoples boundaries and her noise levels. She seems to get along with people of all ages not just kids and is not shy.
As you can see this topic gets my blood boiling for entertaining kids. I find some to be overscheduled, rude and no respect for authority. Don't get me wrong mine is not perfect but we try to just keep her in line the best we can and not have others raise her.
Mary Romeo
Congratulations on 33 years!
This is not a new problem. Over two decades ago, I was teaching high school. A parent of a misbehaving teen blamed her son's misdeeds on the fact that the "teachers are not entertaining enough in their presentation to keep her son interested."
From wind-up mobiles on the crib, to Barney and Sesame Street, and through college, we are charged to make learning fun. Educators are expected to be entertainers as well. Unfortunately, to really learn some things we should know, it takes work, tedium, and repetition, none of which are too entertaining. The problem of poor educational performance is tied to the notion of having to be entertained.
Now the teens I taught 22 years ago are parents themselves, continuiing and expanding upon these expectations. Computers and video games have only added to the problem, not caused it.
Quote from: GeneFOn my original thread, I asked the above questions but I am not sure they were answered but instead I was given suggestions or reasons for electronics or not.
I think my first question here, "Why do parents feel that they have to entertain their children?" is my biggest one.
This doesn't only apply to camping but home life as well. I know that DW and I carted our two kids to games, school functions, etc but there were times when "Hey, do your thing and have fun" was the order of things.
So I guess I am looking for answers to my original questions.
My feeling is that parents need a life also and hey kids, find your own entertainment.
One of the nicest things about being empty nested, is that DW and I finally have more time for each other and realize, once again, why we married each other. Celebrated 33 years on Saturday. We gave our kids a lot of time, but every once in a while, we found time for ourselves.
Quote from: sacrawfCongratulations on 33 years!
This is not a new problem. Over two decades ago, I was teaching high school. A parent of a misbehaving teen blamed her son's misdeeds on the fact that the "teachers are not entertaining enough in their presentation to keep her son interested."
From wind-up mobiles on the crib, to Barney and Sesame Street, and through college, we are charged to make learning fun. Educators are expected to be entertainers as well. Unfortunately, to really learn some things we should know, it takes work, tedium, and repetition, none of which are too entertaining. The problem of poor educational performance is tied to the notion of having to be entertained.
Now the teens I taught 22 years ago are parents themselves, continuiing and expanding upon these expectations. Computers and video games have only added to the problem, not caused it.
I just might have to agree with you.
I taught for 30 years and DW for 35 years at the high school level.
I always find the posts amusing about people needing to bring a DVD player or Xbox to keep the kids entertained. Ummm, how is this camping? I remember camping as a kid, never had electric (didn't even realize that was an option) and entertained myself just fine by reading a book, reading a comic book or just playing in the woods. Teach your kids there is more to life then Xbox and TV is my only suggestion. :)
I agree with all of you who say that too many scheduled activities are detrimental to a child. Here's our story.
My boys are 11 & 13. My sister watched my oldest till he was 18 months, I've been home since. The same sister and her 2 boys (6 & 8 years older than mine) lived with my parents 3 blocks away. My in-laws live a mile away. When they were small, I honestly couldn't figure out why so many moms would form groups and seek 'playdates' - we were so busy raising the boys and trying to fix up the house that we felt we didn't have enough 'just-for-fun' time to spend with the children, let alone each other! Our playdates consisted of visiting our grandparents and playing with the cousins (the relationship is in reality like that of older brothers). Also, when the children are small, you don't need to entertain them - they entertain YOU by just being their cute little selves!
As the boys got a little older (and our financial situation would allow it) they attended the Kindermusik program at my church. After that, they took piano lessons for 3 years (currently still fool around with it and play trumpet & guitar as well). They attended preschool (3 hours/day) for 1 year at a local church; I didn't send them to get rid of them but wanted them to be in an informal classroom before starting kindergarten (it wasn't for academic reasons, DH & I taught them to read and write before entering school). We attended our township pool during the summers (kind of stopped doing that when we started camping but may start again). I have to note that the pool's mom clique (which I stayed out of and eventually was shunned by) regarded DH & I as freaks/bad parents because we didn't have our children enrolled in anything but piano and the free activities offered by the township library ("no SPORTS? no CRAFT classes?" even though we spent plenty of time at our playgrounds and often hiked/biked at the nature preserve).
We did cub scouts as well; the older son had a great den while the younger's left a lot to be desired. They didn't continue to boy scouts - ironically, the reason they gave for not wanting to do it was that 'we camp with our family, why would we want to go with those people'! I'm serious! I couldn't argue with that one.
As far as friends, they've always had a lot of 'school' friends, but as far as home, they will play with others if someone invites them but never want to invite anyone. I worry about this sometimes (any thoughts, anyone)! I've asked them about it and they always tell me that they have each other to hang out with and why do they need anyone else? Their teachers assure me that they do very well socially in school. I'd also like to add that much of their social time has always been spent with family - they enjoy walking to their grandparents' houses and do so several times a week just to pop in and say hi for 5 minutes. When the cousins lived nearby (they moved 5 miles away two years ago, my boys were devastated even though they kept in touch via telephone and visit often) they saw them daily.
As far as school, I volunteer in the library and am a room parent (much to the consternation of the current PTO mom clique (who happens to be headed by someone who, in high school, called me "white trash" (to my face) because of the neighborhood I came from - it is ironic that she now lives and raises her children a few blocks from my old house)). DH volunteers by helping with the musical accompaniment for the choral performances (plays bass) and assemblies where the 'house band' (teachers, sometimes former students) plays.
This summer has been different for us. We bought my youngest a small basketball hoop for his room for Christmas and now he doesn't want to use the outdoor one as he prefers to pretend he's a sportscaster while he plays (I can understand why he wouldn't want to be heard doing that outside). The oldest has been saving his money for years to buy an i-Mac and got one in April. This computer and that one are publicly situated so that we can supervise use.
I know this thread was supposed to be about entertainment not electronics, but in my house, the line between 'entertainment' and just plain old 'socializing' is becoming blurred by the computer. Here's what I mean.
We are having a hard time deciding how much use is appropriate. They love to surf the web; they asked me why we approve of reading a book for a couple hours but not to spend that amount of time exploring Google Earth or Wikipedia. I couldn't come up with a good answer.
I also can't come up with a good answer as to why it's ok for me to spend a bit of time on the phone with my sisters (gossiping, I'll admit it!) but not ok for them to spend time on IM conversations with friends who live across town or his closest friend who just moved to Brooklyn. This seems to be the new telephone.
The webcam is often running as well, but I have to admit that I like it - it's the main way that we communicate with the cousins nowadays (they are busy with work, college, football camp, oldest has a steady girlfriend). It's nice to see each other and catch up for 10 minutes and keep in touch. If it weren't for this, we would see each other a lot less and my boys wouldn't have the benefit of what amounts to 'older brothers' who are excellent role models.
We have strict limits on video game playing and tv watching (confined to baseball games and the occasional episode of 'Dirty Jobs', 'Deadliest Catch', 'Unwrapped', 'Emeril Live' and 'SpongeBob'). The tv watching is usually done together in the evenings as a family.
Here's another reason this summer's different. Boys are older and staying up later whether it be talking with each other or us. This USED to be DH & my 'time'. Now when they are going in we are literally falling asleep 1/2 hour after!
We do not take electronics along on our camping trips, there's enough of that at home. Camping provides the balance that we need in our lives.
We've asked about summer activities (classes, sports) and they say that between running errands (I don't leave them home by themselves, my sister and I at that age (also 2 years apart) got into a lot of mischief), chores, church, and traveling (camping about every other weekend) they just want to stay home and relax.
Like all parents, I always worry about whether we are doing the right thing or not. They are good children and do well in school, so I guess that means something (and they still like to go camping!)
Sorry if I deviated from the original topic. I just wanted to say that I never really felt as if I entertained my children and they are content. I totally agree with those of you who said that the constantly-occupied ones can't amuse themselves - people are always asking me why my two are so laid-back (and I get the feeling that they think my boys are weird for that).
I am tired of getting treated like a weirdo or bad parent just because I think that my job is to teach them to be morally good human beings with life skills rather than to keep them busy with 'fun'.
I just hope they don't grow up to talk too much like their mother...
Quote from: MotherNatureI agree with all of you who say that too many scheduled activities are detrimental to a child. Here's our story.
I am tired of getting treated like a weirdo or bad parent just because I think that my job is to teach them to be morally good human beings with life skills rather than to keep them busy with 'fun'.
Well, I hear what you are saying & I don't think you are weird or a bad parent - at least from what you wrote :).
OTOH, I am a moderate fan of scheduled activities:
1) Our oldest DS is EXTREMELY physical. Neither DH or I are coordinated (Kids are adopted - we think our oldest is God's little joke on us, the 2 most uncoordinated folks on the planet!). By putting him in a club soccer program, he has activities (sometimes daily) where his high energy is channeled (sp?) effectively. This has led him to love the sport. I doubt that he'll get a college scholarship out of it, but I do think he'll grow up & always have the sport to fall back on for an outlet, either by playing in a rec league or by coaching younger kids. Our younger boys are scouts. They are exposed to so many more activities than we could offer without the scouting program. Archery, canoeing, boating, etc. We don't have the skill or the money to provide these things. On camping trips, they are responsible for planning meals - everything from making the grocery list to cooking & cleaning up. They learn planning, teamwork & some pretty good skills. In both sports & scouts, they learn to deal w/others who have a different point of view. The "respect" values that they learn at home are reinforced.
2) We are controlling who they are with & the environment they are in. The boys (& families) our oldest DS has met are first rate. Good students, active in their churches, polite, reliable. The same w/the scouts (although we have a couple of kids that are a bit of an issue). The boys in our neighborhood run the gamut. Some are ok, but many are ill-mannered little snots that need a good kick in the behind! They are fine to play with on a superficial level, but not the same type of kids we meet in scouts & soccer. Alot of that has to do w/parental interest - or the lack thereof.
3) We limit activities. We see others in the community whose life is a mad race to get from one activity to another. Their kids play multiple sports, take music, dance, etc. lessons. Soccer for our oldest & scouts for the younger ones & as many activities they want to participate in at church are it. Taking time as family to relax, hang out, go camping, go to the pool, and yes, even play video games is more important to us than a resume of multiple activities.
So, controlled activities are not all bad. But overdoing them as a replacement for family time is not right. I wouldn't worry about the PTA moms, etc. Sadly, I see this stuff at school and, worse yet, sometimes at church. . . . .I've just made up my mind that I will volunteer to help because 1) it is for my kids, 2) it is for a better community & 3) because it is the right thing to do. Your kids will see that also.
Hang in there!
Pam
This is just a quick comment.... but my personal opinion is if we entertain our children from the time they wake up till the time they go to bed, they have learned that it's our job to keep them happy.
I agree with the previous post that said our job is to bring them up with goods morals and character. God has made them with a personality and skill set of His choosing. They will find their way as they grow and try attempt different things.
Our son is very athletic and wants to participate in every sport possible. We allow this but are teaching him that balance in life is good by limiting the number of sports he does at a time.
He plays racquetball and does participate year around. We also do this as a family. He can then participate in one other sport and he chooses which one as the seasons change.
The biggest point I'm making, if I'm getting it across, is that they know what they like and dislike and need the opportunities to explore those on their own.
And I agree with the teacher. When your grown up, and during the process of growing up, much of it requires tedious, day in day out activities that aren't necessarily fun or entertaining. So to teach them how to find enjoyment (not entertainment) out of doing the daily functions of living will bring a deeper satisfaction than the instant gratification that entertainment has to offer.
I think my 2 cents was well spent... what do you think????
Gene - congrats to you and DW. Hope you celebrate for many, many more years!
To the rest who have responded on this thread, I commend you in your attempts to raise well-adjusted children. It certainly sounds like you are all doing a great job and highly supportive of your children.
Gene happy 33rd. Please pass it along to Terry.:)
Man, I had a long reply typed out based on my experiences with my own kids and I lost it. But it boiled down to every generation changing their entertainment habits from the last. And junkies, flunkies and drunkies are nothing new. Even some of your older peers turned out a little worse than desired. Even without growing up with electronics.
My kids are young and love to play. But they can't be left to their own devices quite yet, due to age. Having a DVD player along offers a nice change up or distraction. It doesn't mean they can't entertain themselves.
Families camp to enjoy themselves together. Everybody has their own definition of what is really camping. Excuse some of us for including a few of the creature comforts of home for our children. Believe it or not, their are hard core outdoorsmen and backpackers who might think you are not really camping in your pups with your gas grills and air conditioners. But if you enjoy yourself, who cares what they think?
Society changes. Kids change. Every generation thinks less of the next. I'm sure some of you entertained yourselves in ways your elders did not approve of.
Let today's parents raise their own kids their own ways. The prisons, rehab centers and unemployment lines are plenty full of people your age and the ages of your children who you raised without video games or dvd players.
If you are camping and enjoying yourself, as long as the family next to you with their kids and their toys isn't bothering you, what does it matter? Let them enjoy themselves their own way.
Amen to that!
While we don't bring videogames with us, I'm glad that some folks do or we'd hear," I'm bored, I'm bored, I'm bored,etc. ..." coming from the next campsite ALL DAY. If letting their kids watch TV or play videogames keeps them quiet, then so be it.
Should these people teach their kids to make their own fun? Probably. But who am I ( and who are we?) to tell the next person how to raise their kids?
Like jeezy stated, everyone has their own definition of what camping is. If you want to bring a TV then knock yourself out( just don't turn it up so loud that I can hear it :) ). If you want to bring videogames then do it.
We'll stick to playing card games or boardgames or just plain relaxing by the fire.
Quote from: wernstriumphAmen to that!
While we don't bring videogames with us, I'm glad that some folks do or we'd hear," I'm bored, I'm bored, I'm bored,etc. ..." coming from the next campsite ALL DAY. If letting their kids watch TV or play videogames keeps them quiet, then so be it.
Should these people teach their kids to make their own fun? Probably. But who am I ( and who are we?) to tell the next person how to raise their kids?
Like jeezy stated, everyone has their own definition of what camping is. If you want to bring a TV then knock yourself out( just don't turn it up so loud that I can hear it :) ). If you want to bring videogames then do it.
We'll stick to playing card games or boardgames or just plain relaxing by the fire.
Absolutely. No matter what the kids are doing, they have to respect the neighbors. Though at their young age, they don't know they are respecting neighbors, just listening to mom and dad.
What it boils down to is boundaries need to be set and enforced. Camping or not camping.
Mary Romeo
If I read the first post correctly, this wasn't a question specifically related to camping but was speaking of what is best for kids.
I apologize for going off on a tangent in my post.
I think the last couple posts really DO talk about what's best for kids: being taught manners and to respect their neighbors.
Being polite will help them throughout life regardless of what they enjoy doing in their spare time.
Gene, You were missed at the Rally.
We take our 7 year old camping and he brings his favorite trucks & etc and digs in the dirt. I do spend some time digging with him. He has a great imagination and keeps himself occupied. He's the same at home. He watches some TV but can play independently.