Title: Propane weight
Post by: oreo57 on May 26, 2009, 06:29 PM
Post by: oreo57 on May 26, 2009, 06:29 PM
Read this article (//%22http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30892512/%22) today thought I'd pass it on
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Post by: waygard33 on May 27, 2009, 12:38 AM
Post by: waygard33 on May 27, 2009, 12:38 AM
I guess if a company can't make an honest buck...it's OK to rip off your customers and make a dishonest one. Is there anyone left with any integrity?
Wayne in Oregon
Wayne in Oregon
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Post by: Old Goat on May 27, 2009, 06:21 AM
Post by: Old Goat on May 27, 2009, 06:21 AM
I had two twenty pounders filled to full weight last week at our local gas company. Total cost for the two was $ 27.64 with tax. Some outlets around here are getting $23.00 plus for an exchange.
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Post by: coach on May 27, 2009, 07:18 AM
Post by: coach on May 27, 2009, 07:18 AM
It's right there on the label!
(http://casitaclub.com/forums/uploads/monthly_05_2009/post-5380-1242653939.jpg)
(http://casitaclub.com/forums/uploads/monthly_05_2009/post-5380-1242653939.jpg)
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Post by: treephiz on May 27, 2009, 08:24 AM
Post by: treephiz on May 27, 2009, 08:24 AM
Even with it being printed on the label, that is still shady as far as I am concerned. Same size container same looking label at a glance. It is like the fine print in a bumper to bumper warantee. Bumper to bumper should mean that, just like refilled tank should be a refilled tank not almost refilled tank or refilled so it is safer but were not going to publisize(?) it.:mad:
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Post by: wavery on May 27, 2009, 09:38 AM
Post by: wavery on May 27, 2009, 09:38 AM
Quote from: coach;205484It's right there on the label!
I feel comfortable with the fact that they disclose the true weight on the label. Have you purchased a "Pound" of coffee lately?? They are now down to about 11oz. Yet the container looks the same and everyone still call it a "Pound".
Consumers need to wise up and read the labels.......it's called "Marketing".
We always have our tanks filled and we always fill them in the winter (We have 4 tanks). Remember, when you have yours filled, they charge by the gallon, not the pound. A gallon of propane is a lot lighter when it is hot out, therefore, you get even less volume.
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Post by: oreo57 on May 27, 2009, 03:00 PM
Post by: oreo57 on May 27, 2009, 03:00 PM
I dont use the exchange bottles but get mine filled at the local propane place, They fill them till liquid comes out of the vent then its full.
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Post by: waygard33 on May 27, 2009, 04:00 PM
Post by: waygard33 on May 27, 2009, 04:00 PM
Quote from: wavery;205489Consumers need to wise up and read the labels.......it's called "Marketing".
Wavery, I agree that we all need to wise up but you make it sound like it's OK as long as it's done under the guise of 'Marketing'.
In the article, they said they started putting less in the tanks because of the high costs and they didn't want to raise prices. Now the cost of propane has gone back down again and when asked why they didn't return to giving us fair value for our money (putting the right amount in the tank), the 'Marketing' boys just said, "well...the price of propane is still volatile".
Geez! I can picture the execs and their lawyers sitting around the table and saying something like..."Ok...we're going to rip off our customers by doing this...(then turns to the lawyers)...what's the very least we have to do so I don't have to go to jail?"
So they change a number on a label that no one reads and few understand anyway. OK, I'm wiser but I'm not happy about it.
I'm a self employed business man. I pride myself in giving equal or even more value for what I charge for my services. I feel good after a long days work and manage to take care of my family. I hate it when I receive less and I'm told to like it.:mad:
Just my .02 cents.
Wayne in Oregon
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Post by: waterdoctor on May 27, 2009, 04:44 PM
Post by: waterdoctor on May 27, 2009, 04:44 PM
I guess I was just real lucky. I ran out of propane (not the first time) and had to go get a refill. I found out that my tank was no longer refillable and I was forced to get one of those exchangable ones. I did notice that the weight was 15# (as opposed to the 20# I was used to) and asked about it. The guy taking care of me couldn't give me a good answer, but did say the tank had a 20# capacity and should be able to be refilled to 20#. Needless to say I was a bit put off paying for less than I thought I should be getting. At the time I didn't have much of a choice since the nearest town was over an hour away and I needed to get some heat in the old PUP for DW. That was the last time I did that. I went out and bought a new tank and now get it refilled to capacity every time. Others I have talked to say that they never noticed the exchangable tanks were short by 5# but thought the convenience of being able to just exchange an empty for a "full" tank in a matter of a couple minutes was ok since they didn't use their propane very often.
I guess convenience has some value.
Steve
I guess convenience has some value.
Steve
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Post by: coach on May 28, 2009, 12:16 PM
Post by: coach on May 28, 2009, 12:16 PM
They've been short filling from the start by only filling to 17 lbs.
Excahange old tanks for newer ones then get them refilled till they get old.
Excahange old tanks for newer ones then get them refilled till they get old.
Title: shipping costs
Post by: JohnandLeann on May 28, 2009, 01:19 PM
Post by: JohnandLeann on May 28, 2009, 01:19 PM
Would shipping costs enter into the equation here? There is a truck trailer with pallets of fuel weighing a certain amount. If that amount was decreased by even a few hundred pounds by carrying less fuel in the tanks, would that not cost less to truck per mile?
Just a thought I thunk late last night.
Just a thought I thunk late last night.
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Post by: LACamper on Jun 05, 2009, 09:51 PM
Post by: LACamper on Jun 05, 2009, 09:51 PM
I thought they short filled them to 18 pounds for temp/pressure reasons.
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Post by: coach on Jun 06, 2009, 08:28 AM
Post by: coach on Jun 06, 2009, 08:28 AM
NFPA allows for filling to 42% of the WC (water capacity) stamped on the collar.
.42 = ratio of propane density/water density * 80%
.42 ~ 4.3/8.3 * .8
A typical cylinder (20# or 5 gal) has a WC of 47.6 lbs.
47.6 / 8.33 lb/gallon water = 5.71 gallon capacity
47.6 x .42 = 20 lbs of propane.
.42 = ratio of propane density/water density * 80%
.42 ~ 4.3/8.3 * .8
A typical cylinder (20# or 5 gal) has a WC of 47.6 lbs.
47.6 / 8.33 lb/gallon water = 5.71 gallon capacity
47.6 x .42 = 20 lbs of propane.
Title: Short fills
Post by: GlennS on Jun 28, 2009, 07:18 PM
Post by: GlennS on Jun 28, 2009, 07:18 PM
From one of the propane sites:
"The old POL valves were replaced by a new Acme type which uses a QCC (Quick Closing Coupling) connector.
The new ACME or QCC valve also contains an OPD (Overfill Protection Device). The OPD feature prevents accidental overfill of the cylinder. An internal float mechanism shuts off the valve when the propane tank is 80% filled. The 20% empty space is necessary to prevent the cylinder from venting large amounts of propane when the temperature rises. (ASME type cylinders in most motorhomes have had this OPD feature for many years). The new OPD valve also contains another safety feature - it will not release gas unless the pigtail hose is properly connected, even with the valve open."
The 80% fill isn't a conspiracy, it's a design feature. By government requirement, which is a different argument, but in any event, the new tanks apparently can't be filled to more than 80%, or about 16 pounds in a "20 pound" tank. I assume that's why Blue Rhino labels theirs as 15 pounds, in case the fill is a tad short. Or maybe they fill them all short - 15#.
"The old POL valves were replaced by a new Acme type which uses a QCC (Quick Closing Coupling) connector.
The new ACME or QCC valve also contains an OPD (Overfill Protection Device). The OPD feature prevents accidental overfill of the cylinder. An internal float mechanism shuts off the valve when the propane tank is 80% filled. The 20% empty space is necessary to prevent the cylinder from venting large amounts of propane when the temperature rises. (ASME type cylinders in most motorhomes have had this OPD feature for many years). The new OPD valve also contains another safety feature - it will not release gas unless the pigtail hose is properly connected, even with the valve open."
The 80% fill isn't a conspiracy, it's a design feature. By government requirement, which is a different argument, but in any event, the new tanks apparently can't be filled to more than 80%, or about 16 pounds in a "20 pound" tank. I assume that's why Blue Rhino labels theirs as 15 pounds, in case the fill is a tad short. Or maybe they fill them all short - 15#.
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Post by: PM3579 on Jun 28, 2009, 08:28 PM
Post by: PM3579 on Jun 28, 2009, 08:28 PM
OPD's are a great feature but they do FAIL. 10%-15% of the tanks we have at our shop have defective OPD's. If these tanks are over filled and left in the sun to bake they will burp gas. Our supplier has confirmed that 10-15 % of the tanks in use do not shut off at 80% while filling. Be careful.:usflag:
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Post by: bill623 on Jul 26, 2009, 07:27 PM
Post by: bill623 on Jul 26, 2009, 07:27 PM
Here in Xenia Ohio 20# propane is 10$.....Yes 10$ :-():-() getting a tank full tuesday .. and its 20#of propane not 15 at Kmart and other exchange places...