RE: To Brake or not to Brake

[Joe Buskirk]

 
Being newbie and looking into a new PU, what determines the need for electric brakes?  The PU that I am looking at is a Jayco Qwest 12A(2750 lbs) and one option is electric brakes.  I will be towing this with a 1999 Dodge Ram 1500 Pickup.

[SactoCampers]

 Joe Buskirk
My general advice is if the combination of the trailer and pickup exceed the truck s GVWR (NOT GCWR), then you should get trailer brakes.The truck s brakes are only designed to adequately stop the truck and it s rated payload capacity (GVWR). So in your case, brakes would be highly recommended since most 1/2 ton pickups have a payload capacity of around 1700 lbs and your popup weighs 2700. Trailer brakes make for a very comforting towing experience.

[Preacher]

 Joe Buskirk
I might have missed it, but I have never heard anyone say after they have had to make an emergency stop that they wish their trailer didn t have brakes.  The brakes will help you make a shorter stop than if you didn t have them, and they will help keep the trailer straight behind you when you have to stop quickly.  It s like insurance, until you need them you don t know how important they are.

[whippetwrun]

 Joe Buskirk
I d say to brake.  It is an added piece of security, and is better than finding out down the rode that your PU is trying to push your TV off the road.  And it s also nice for that little tap when trying to get a little sway under control.
 
 

[Ab Diver]

 Joe Buskirk
Class, here is your homework for today. Learn it, know it, live it.
 
 A = start of stop
 B = end of stop
 C = object suddenly placed in path
 
 
 Scenario 1) with trailer brakes
 
 A-------B-----C
 
 Which can also be written as
 
  A+B<C[]
 
 Scenario 2) without trailer brakes
 
 A-------C-----B  
 
 Which can also be written as A+B>/=C[]
 
 I could get all mathematical on you, but I think you get the point. []
 
 Trying to keep the subject fun....

[garym053]

 Joe Buskirk
In SOME states it s the law that determines the need for brakes! In Vermont any trailer over 2000lbs is required to have trailer brakes. Mine is just under that and I don t have them although there have been times I wish I did! They are much easier to get upfront before you are sure you need them than to add them afterwards!!!

[pinhi18]

 Joe Buskirk
Get the brakes.  I also tow with a Ram 1500 and have been very thankful on a couple of occasions that my trailer has brakes.  The trailer brakes also help when you are towing in the mountains and are on the down slope.  They help to keep the trailer behind the t/v.[]
 

[SactoCampers]

 garym053

In SOME states it s the law that determines the need for brakes! In Vermont any trailer over 2000lbs is required to have trailer brakes.

 Good point. In Maryland (Joe Buskirk s state of residence) it s 3,000 lbs so that would explain why they are being sold as an option in that state and not ordered with them installed.

[AustinBoston]

 Joe Buskirk
I ll bet if you read the fine print in the trucks owner s manual, it says you need brakes over X lbs. somewhere.  X could be anywhere from 1,500 to 2,500 lbs (probably closer to 1,500-2,000 lbs).  Above that and you expose yourself to legal issues even if the accident isn t your fault.
 
 Below that, brakes are the cheapest insurance you can buy.
 
 One way I look at it is this:  My van weighs roughly 4,000 lbs.  It has four brakes, averaging 1,000 lbs per wheel.  Braking is not distributed equally between front & rear axles, so this is a simplifiction, but it illustrates the point.
 
 My trailer weighs 3,300 lbs.  It has two brakes, averaging 1,650 lbs per wheel.  Not only do I need brakes, but there is more load on the trailer brakes (as a system) than on the van brakes!
 
 BTW, legalitites are not a good way to determine need.  Massachusetts does not require brakes on trailers below 10,000 (ten thousand) pounds!  Anybody wanna tow a 10,000 lb trailer without brakes?
 
 Austin

[C. Hains]

 Joe Buskirk
oops -- Looks like I posted a reply on another thread when this one would have been more appropriate.  Here s the message I posted -- including a quote that got me started:
 
  QUOTE:
 " With an inertial controller, the rules are changed. You set the controller for the amount of power you want sent to the brakes, and forget it. The controller responds to the situation, sending power to the trailer in proportion to how quickly the TV is slowing down. In other words, the trailer will slowly and smoothly apply the brakes as you approach a stop sign, or instantly come to full power if you slam on the brakes to avoid hitting that deer, inattentive driver, or child that suddenly wanders in front of your vehicle"  
 
 
 LORD, HAVE MERCY!!! Just when I think I have gotten my courage up to the place where I m thinking " I can do this"  along comes a level of detail that throws me into a tail spin. So, sombody help me out here -- I have a 2002 Coleman Westlake. Right now I don t have brakes on it although I know it s wired for brakes. How do I go about getting an " inertial controller"  and is that the thing to do -- do I just talk to my dealer? About how much does it cost?  Also, I am buying a new towing vehicle.  I am thinking about a Pathfinder -- is that a good idea? My camper fully loaded weighs in the neighborhood of 3500 lbs. The towing capacity of a Pathfinder is 5000 lbs.  What, if anything, should I have on the TV to accommodate the brakes on the camper? And.....please.....speak.....S L O W L Y ........
 and........D I S T I N T C L Y -- I am old AND dumb!!!
 Thanks!!!!!
 

[tlhdoc]

 Joe Buskirk
Yes get them.  It is safer to have them.

[Ab Diver]

 C. Hains

 

ORIGINAL:  C. Hains
 
  So, sombody help me out here -- I have a 2002 Coleman Westlake. Right now I don t have brakes on it although I know it s wired for brakes. How do I go about getting an " inertial controller"  and is that the thing to do -- do I just talk to my dealer? About how much does it cost?  Also, I am buying a new towing vehicle.  I am thinking about a Pathfinder -- is that a good idea? My camper fully loaded weighs in the neighborhood of 3500 lbs. The towing capacity of a Pathfinder is 5000 lbs.  What, if anything, should I have on the TV to accommodate the brakes on the camper? And.....please.....speak.....S L O W L Y ........
 and........D I S T I N T C L Y -- I am old AND dumb!!!
 Thanks!!!!!
 
 

 Good Evening Mr. Hains (spoken with my best " respect for the elderly"  voice [] )
 
 Please don t take my greeting wrong. We are all dumb until somebody else shares knowledge with us. And as my 94 year old Grandfather taught me, " old"  is a privilege denied to many. Besides, you re still a young pup compared to some of our other members!
 
 Check out the web page for Tekonsha, the manufacturer of the Prodigy:
 
 http://www.tekonsha.com/
 
 You will be able to find all the information you need about Tekonsha brake controllers on their web page. You can find a dealer through their web page, but most RV shops, dealers, and catalog outlets like Camping World also sell them. I ve heard a place called Southwest Tire and Wheel has the best prices, but don t quote me. Prices seem to be anywhere from $115-$140, so shop around a bit. Although any RV shop can install it, it s really very easy to do yourself, just follow the directions. Check and see if Tekonsha has a special wiring harness for your current tow rig so you can simply plug connections together and be done with the installation. Then just transfer it to your new Pathfinder.
 
 If the tow rating of the Pathfinder is 5000 lbs. (properly equipped), then you re all set. Just make sure the dealer has the tow package all set up so the wiring is ready for you to plug in your trailer. Then hook up the Prodigy, and that s it-- time to camp!
 

[Turn Key]

 Joe Buskirk

Get Brakes![]

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[AustinBoston]

 C. Hains

ORIGINAL:  C. Hains
 <quote snipped>
 
 LORD, HAVE MERCY!!! Just when I think I have gotten my courage up to the place where I m thinking " I can do this"  along comes a level of detail that throws me into a tail spin. So, sombody help me out here -- I have a 2002 Coleman Westlake. Right now I don t have brakes on it although I know it s wired for brakes. How do I go about getting an " inertial controller"  and is that the thing to do -- do I just talk to my dealer? About how much does it cost?  Also, I am buying a new towing vehicle.  I am thinking about a Pathfinder -- is that a good idea? My camper fully loaded weighs in the neighborhood of 3500 lbs. The towing capacity of a Pathfinder is 5000 lbs.  What, if anything, should I have on the TV to accommodate the brakes on the camper? And.....please.....speak.....S L O W L Y ........
 and........D I S T I N T C L Y -- I am old AND dumb!!!
 Thanks!!!!!
 

 I m not old (yet), but as far as the dumb part is concerned, uh, we have no comment at this time...
 
 Brake controllers are small devices, maybe 2-3 inches by 5-6 inches by one inch deep, that go in the cab of the tow vehicle near the driver.  Some have restrictions on how they are mounted.
 
 Electric brakes require some kind of controller.  Prices range from $60 to $150 for controllers that handle one or two axles.  If your pop-up has more than two axles, please tell us!
 
 There are three types of brake controllers.  The cheapest is the timer-based controller.  They work by sensing the brake lights and gradually increasing the amount of trailer brake power over time.  If you want to gradually come to a stop, well, you won t.  In order to stop without full power to the brakes, you have to keep taking your foot off the brake pedal.  If you want to stop fast in a panic situation, well, you won t.  You have to wait for the timer controller to bring the trailer brakes up to maximum, something that car that cut you off isn t waiting for.  Timer-based controllers do not do a good job of controlling the trailer brakes.  If someone insists on trying to sell you one, run, do not walk, to the nearest exit.  Anyone who has used both will tell you that timer-based controllers are not worth it.
 
 The type of controller second is the inertial controller.  It senses how quickly you are slowing down, and applies the trailer brakes accordingly.  Your quote describes the function fairly well.  The overwhelming consensus among those on this board who have used one is that the Tekonsha Prodigy is the way to go among inertial controllers.  I used to use a Tekonsha Voyager, which worked fairly well, but for the money, I now strongly recommend the Prodigy.
 
 The third type of controller is popular with peole towing larger trailers.  The Jordan Ultima is a pedal-motion sensing controller.  It has a linkage that senses the movement of the brake pedal armature and and activates the trailer brakes accordingly.  They can be expensive and a pain to set up, but if I had a large travel trailer (no, I am not in the market) I would probably go with an Ultima.
 
 Whatever you do, don t let anyone sell you a Draw-Tite Activator, Activator II, or any other timer-based controller.  Timer based controllers can and will stop your trailer, but you will not be pleased with how or when.
 
 
 The controller needs a wire from the controller to the trailer brakes (thought the electrical connector at the hitch).  If you have a four-wire flat connector, you will need to replace it with a seven-wire connector to accomodate the brake wire.
 
 If you are buying a new Pathfinder, make sure the brake wire is already in the tow vehicle.  If you get the towing package (I am assuming there is one), it will have the brake wire.
 
 Although I paid the trailer dealer to install my first controller, if you have resonable DIY skills, this is something you can do yourself.
 
 Austin

[C. Hains]

 Joe Buskirk
Ab Diver and AustinBoston,
 Thanks much for responding so articulately to my request -- your info helps me greatly.  Now I will locate someone who can help me put an inertial controller on my popup and I won t feel like I am speaking a foreign language when I am asking about it!
 I, too, have gotten the sense from this board that Prodigy is a good one and it makes sense to me to take the advice of the folks with the experience.
 And Ab Diver, I did catch the respect in your voice -- maybe I m not quite THAT old!
 Thanks again to both of you!