RE: Another newbie question from another newbie!

jimclay · Sep 28, 2003, 07:05 PM

Two questions actually, I hope you can help. My wife & I sold the TT and we d like to get a pop up. I saw the list of good PU s on another thread so that was a big help. What I m wondering is, I see a lot of pretty new but used PU s for sale and it seems that there is a significant savings. Am I taking a big chance buying used? I know that use & abuse will vary depending on the owner but are there any particular models that stand up to usage better than others? What should I watch out for? Are there any notorious trouble spots I should be aware of?

Now the 2nd question. Do any of you tow with a Jeep Wrangler? I have a 98 with a 6 cylinder and I m wondering what length s & weight I can tow. The engine is strong enough but I wonder, since it has a short wheelbase, should I be concerned about trailer length? Any help/info/suggestions you folks may have are greatly appreciated !

Thanks,

Jim C

Tim5055 · Mar 09, 2003, 05:40 PM

jimclayFirst off, welcome to PUT!

Buying used is a great way to save money. As Zerk (the representative from Viking RV) has posted, the industry assumes you will only keep a pop up for 3 years. There are a lot of people who buy one, find out it s not for them and sell it in the first year.

As with buying anything else used, you are taking some chances. Most, but not all manufacturers do not transfer a warranty. So even a 5 month old unit may loose it s warranty when you buy it used. But when you think about it, there is not a lot that can go wrong with a newer pop up that can t be fixed fairly easily. As they get older you then begin to enter the time that water leaks in the roof may cause headaches.

I will caution you, Coleman had problems with their ABS roofs for several years, finally abandoning the ABS design in the 2003 1/2 model year. Any ABS roof unit should be discounted accordingly.

I invite you to take a quick trip to [link=http://www.title-3.com]my web site[/link] and check out a couple of pages:

[link=http://www.title-3.com/Shorthand.htm]Message Board Shorthand[/link]

[link=http://www.title-3.com/BuyUsed.htm]Purchasing a Used Pop-Up-Camper[/link]

Now, for your Jeep towing question. I think [link=http://www.popuptimes.com/members/showprofile.asp?memid=231]Springer02[/link] is one of the resident Jeep towing experts, so I will defer to him (and them) answering specifics of that model. But, you are correct the longer the wheelbase, the more stable the towing will usually be.

You are doing things in the correct order, do your homework before you buy. I have heard many sad stories here from folks who went along with the salesman s word that they would not have a problem towing - and did.

Pull out the owners manual and figure out the exact towing abilities of your vehicle as it is currently equipped. There are many factors to take into consideration, so again I have put together a web page - [link=http://www.title-3.com/Hitch.htm]Towing and Hitch Information[/link]. Another subject you should be aware of is [link=http://www.title-3.com/Sway.htm]sway[/link], but having said you have had a TT before you are probably aware of it.

Good luck and again - welcome!

Ab Diver · Mar 09, 2003, 07:05 PM

jimclayHiya Jim, and Welcome!

Uh, not to point out the obvious, but what did you tow the TT with?

Buying used: Tim s pretty much nailed it. Just remember, you can save some bucks buying used, as somebody else gets to take that first depreciation hit. Check NADA guides for a ballpark price, check the classifieds for your region for as far back as you can to see local pricing and what s usually available, and look at as many pop-ups as possible so you can learn what to look for. The real *jewels* are out there (the five-year-old pop-up, only used once, and parked in the garage it s whole life), but they can be few and far between. Most trailers only a year or two old should have had any major problems dealt with cuz it was still under warranty. But like Tim said, a used Coleman can bite you hard if the roof sags (major bummer on an otherwise great trailer).

As for towing with your Wrangler... man, this is gunna sound harsh, but I can t think of a worse on-road, highway-speed *tow rig* than that. It is a great off-road rig, and pulls off-road trailers just fine, but those are usually MUCH smaller than most pop-ups. A small 8 pop-up, perhaps. But a 12 , front-trunk Coleman? No way. The problem is the tail to dog ratio. If you have a lift kit and bigger tires on the Jeep, that s only gunna compound the problem. I m probably gunna get reamed for taking this position, but if you get into an emergency situation, I feel your ability to take evasive action will be considerably less than that of most other tow rigs. A 99 Wrangler is only rated at 2000 lbs. (only 1000 lbs. if equipped with auto tranny). I couldn t find the specs for a 98 Jeep, but even this is less than 2/3 of the towing capacity of most mini-vans on the market. When you start figuring in the weight of camping gear, food, clothes, and all the other " stuff" we usually take camping, the towing capacity drops even further.

Ok, before you go thinking I m a mean-spirited SOB who doesn t want you to have any fun, there are smaller pop-ups you could tow quite nicely. I saw an old soft-top pop-up that only weighed about 500 lbs., and it was towed by an 86 Subaru Sport! (which towed it very well) If you look at the lighter end of the pop-up spectrum, you ll find a trailer that fits your needs, as long as you don t expect a lot of bells and whistles. Otherwise, if you want one of the larger pop-ups, I recommend that you get a bigger tow rig first.

Don t take what I said as anything more than wanting you to have a wonderful time as you *safely* tow your future pop-up. I ve just seen too many accidents caused by over-loaded tow rigs. Again, Welcome to PUT, and I hope you share your pop-up hunting adventures with us as you narrow your search for the perfect camping rig.

Danusmom · Mar 09, 2003, 07:15 PM

jimclay

QuoteI will caution you, Coleman had problems with their ABS roofs for several years, finally abandoning the ABS design in the 2003 1/2 model year. Any ABS roof unit should be discounted accordingly.

I thought you qualified this problem as being more promient with the 12 boxes. And, then only about 10% of them at that. Also, shouldn t the mention of Coleman being very earnest, for the most part, in replacement roofs be listed here, too? Companies are just as human as the rest of us. It s the follow-through on solutions which make or break a company s reputation. It was my understanding that Coleman did a much better job than most on resolving their problem roofs.

Just my .02 cents worth.

Peace be with you all.

Tim5055 · Mar 09, 2003, 07:20 PM

Danusmom

QuoteORIGINAL: Danusmom

QuoteI will caution you, Coleman had problems with their ABS roofs for several years, finally abandoning the ABS design in the 2003 1/2 model year. Any ABS roof unit should be discounted accordingly.

I thought you qualified this problem as being more prominent with the 12 boxes. And, then only about 10% of them at that. Also, shouldn t the mention of Coleman being very earnest, for the most part, in replacement roofs be listed here, too? Companies are just as human as the rest of us. It s the follow-through on solutions which make or break a company s reputation. It was my understanding that Coleman did a much better job than most on resolving their problem roofs.

Just my .02 cents worth.

Peace be with you all.

Danusmon,

You are correct. I intended to link the previous discussion regarding the Coleman roof, but got tied up spell-checking the post before I was done.

[link=http://www.popuptimes.com/members/tm.asp?m=14188&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=&language=&tmode=&s=#14599]Previous thread regarding Coleman roof[/link]

Yes, the sag appears more often in 12 foot boxes (unlikely that you could tow it with your Jeep)

Yes, while not covered under warranty, Coleman has worked with second owners to replace roofs.

Sorry I was not as precise as I should have been in my previous post

jimclay · Mar 09, 2003, 08:54 PM

jimclayHey folks, thanks for the quick response s and info. Tim5055 & Ab Diver, we never towed the TT, we just left it on site so we never had a tow rig and I ve heard of sway bars but not too sure what they do(stop the trailor from swaying accross the road?) The main reason we sold it was because it was too big to tow comfortably and we were stuck on one site, that s the reason we re looking into a pop up. We want the mobility it offers. Not to worry about your comments about the jeep, it s pretty much what I feared and I m not offended at in the least. Believe me I want to do this correctly. My wife has a 6 cyl Isuzu Rodeo, so we ll probably use that as the tow vehicle. Again, thanks for the info!

Jim C

tlhdoc · Mar 09, 2003, 09:08 PM

jimclayWelcome to the PUT campground. You will need to find out how much you vehicles can tow and the to be on the safe side figure on towing only about 75% of the tow weight limit. That will limit the size PU you can get. You can be pretty safe buying a used trailer and you can save a bit of money getting a used trailer. Some things to do if you are looking at a used trailer are crawl under the trailer and check that the floor looks OK. Try all of the appliances and make sure they work. Look in all of the cupboards for any sign of water damage. Make sure the lift system operates smoothly and just look for over all wear. Good luck and happy camping.

Danusmom · Mar 10, 2003, 12:24 AM

jimclay

QuoteSorry I was not as precise as I should have been in my previous post

It wasn t my intention to split hairs with you. I just wanted to make sure Coleman was being presented fairly & didn t want their reputation tainted for a newcomer to the PU world who didn t know the full story. You have truly earned the title of " PU Guru" . Keep up the great work!

BTW, apology accepted[

]

Peace be with you all.

RamblingWreck · Mar 10, 2003, 08:33 PM

jimclayJim,

Welcome aboard. We just put a deposit on a delaer s demo popup. Pricing was better than if he ordered one from the factory. WE went for the popup for pretty much same reason you indicated, mobility at reasonable cost.

While we were shopping we also found some very reasonable hold overs. These are dealer demos from prior years that were never sold. Pricing was comparable to what WWW.NADA.COM was showing for used units same model year. Difference is that the ones from the dealer had full warranty.

We are big fans of popups from Jayco and Starcraft. There have been a few reports of some of the Jayco s with ABS roofs having problems in other threads on these boards.

I have three co-workers who own or have owned Viking. For the most part they really like them. First thing they will tell you is, " its a lot of camper for the money" . The one former owner upgraded to a motor home and sold his Viking popup to a family member. I have been impressed by the support the are putting into the manufacturer s forum here at Popup Times.

Coleman is far and away the best selling brand. I have seen a few mentions in various threads of people who upgraded from Jayco to Coleman. They indicated that they liked the quality better but I don t remember any specifics.

Have fun shopping!

ThunderRock · Mar 10, 2003, 10:18 PM

jimclayNot much here to add to the previous posts from the " gurus" [

] - except " Welcome Aboard" !

Gamecock Camper · Mar 10, 2003, 10:31 PM

jimclayWelcome aboard. I agree that looking for a used unit can be a better bargain. I have a 2002 Rockwood that I bought used and owned a 99 Jayco that I bought used. If you look around, do your research, and inspect everything then you should be able to find a barely used camper. The 1999 Jayco we bought was used only about 4 or 5 times. The 2002 Rockwood we bought in November and it was only used twice. Instead of buying this loaded unit with a little off the sticker from the dealer, we bought it for about a $6000 savings. In addition to saving money, you will not have the severe depreciation that a new camper will have if you decide that camping in a pop-up is not for you and your family. The new campers are nice, but even my Rockwood would be considered a new unit by anyone s standards except that it has two trips under it s belt before we bought it.

springer02 · Mar 14, 2003, 10:45 PM

jimclayWelcome to the Board, and thanks Tim5055 for the plug.

While your Wrangler engine is very close in power to our older Grand Cherokee, it pales in comparison when it comes to towing capacity. As others have said, it s a matter of wheel base.

The longer wheelbase gives you more of a grip on the road. The shorter the wheelbase, the easier it is for the trailer dynamics to be stronger than the vehicle. Guess who s in charge then? (It s not you.) We love our YJ, but don t even list it below because you won t see it camping with us (unless someone chose to drive separately.)

Good camping.

Dave

News: