RE: Give me a brake....

[luvtacamp]

 
Our pu doesn t have trailer brakes.  It has towed just fine so far, but with our upcoming trip to Yellowstone, I m a bit concerned about the moutainious areas.  Our pu is a 12 fter dry weight is around 1800. GVWR at 2500.  Like I said we ve had no problems thus far, sway or other wise.  I m not even sure if it s possbile to add brakes or not.  I m curious as to how many of you don t have brakes and do just fine towing.

[Ab Diver]

 luvtacamp
luvtacamp, what s your tow rig and trailer brand/model? That would help us answer your question, cuz if your towing with an F450, the answer will be different than if you are towing with a Jeep CJ.[]
 
 Best bet: having trailer brakes is ALWAYS better than not having them, especially if you will be towing in the mountains.

[luvtacamp]

 luvtacamp
We ll be towing with our Nissan Quest.  Towing capacity is 3500.  I don t believe we re over the limit or even close to it.  We re towing a Dutchmen 1204.  I m not sure how or if brakes can be put on. Electric brakes or what type can be put on? That would certainly be a project for DH.  Any suggestions?  Around here towing has been no problem, of course it s basically flat, semi hilly area, not anything like traveling steep mountain sides.

[GaryWT]

 luvtacamp
I have towed a Coleman Bayport without brakes and with a Nissan Quest amoung others and never had a problem.

[mike4947]

 luvtacamp
Since I m in a state that requires brakes on anything over a 1000 pounds dry or 3000 pounds gross weight it been years since I towed without brakes.
 My opinion; however is trailer brakes are always best. It will always take you longer to stop without trailer brakes than when not towing. That extra distance could mean the difference between a scary stop and an accident.
 My brake Guru says that with the normal mini van and a 2000 pound trailer you re talking at least 50% longer stops. That could translate into 180 versus 270 feet at 60 MPH. With trailer brakes he says it runs 10-20% over a non towing stop. 180 versus 200 - 220 feet. That s 50 to 70 feet farther without trailer brakes. A long distance when the tires are at lock up and that back bumper is closing rapidly.
 Not to mention the trailer s getting ready to start passing the TV.
 
 Also let s not forget hills & mountains. I wish I had a buck for every RV that I saw with brake problems on those long downhill descents. I d have enough to buy brakes.[]
 
 Tow frequently and you re also putting a lot more wear & tear on the brake pads& shoes. Meaning more changes and/or rotors as well.

[Turn Key]

 luvtacamp
luvtacamp,
 You stated a number of times that your PU tows fine.  You say you have had no trouble with " sway or otherwise" .  That all has to do with " moving"  and brakes are all about " stopping" .
 If your questioning it and if you can I would suggest you add brakes.

[tlhdoc]

 luvtacamp
I have towed with and with out brakes.  I do not like towing with out brakes.  All you need is one emergency stop and you will want brakes.  The fact that you are asking about adding brakes suggest you are worried.  If you add them the worry will go away.

[AustinBoston]

 luvtacamp
This is something I posted a while back in a different thread:
 
 Downhill Braking Techniques
 
 Going down significant hills while towing a trailer is a very different kind of towing. Here are some things to know and do before you tow, and after you get to the top and you need to go down the other side.
 
 The single biggest aspect of going down hill is getting rid of energy. A tow vehicle and trailer are near perfect mechanisms for turning potential energy (altitude) into kinetic energy (speed). What is important is having mechanisms for turning that kinetic energy into something else. The main thing it is changed into is heat. (Small amounts are changed into noise, and modest amounts into wind and turbulence, but those are beyond the control of most drivers.) The friction in brakes heats the drums or rotors. The friction in transmissions and engines also generates heat. As long as that heat does not become excessive, going down the hill is as safe as going up. But the problem is, that heat can become excessive!
 
 Here are some things to do:
 
 1) Educate yourself about the hills you will be negotiating. Hills are measured by grade and length. Grade is measured in percent, such as 4%. That means for every 100 feet you go forward, you will go down (or up) by 4 feet.
 
 A 4% grade for two miles goes down as far as an 8% grade for one mile, but they are not the same. The 8% grade will heat braking components twice as fast as the 4% grade. There are grades in the east as high as 12% for short distances, and as high as 20% in the west. If I had to tow up or down a 20% grade for more than 1/8 of a mile, I would find a different route, period.
 
 If you will be doing a lot of towing in the mountains, get one of the guides on mountain passes. REI publishes two (Mountain Directory East and Mountain Directory West), Good Sam has one, and I believe AAA does as well. They can tell you in advance if there are steep grades on the road ahead. Sometimes they will tell you about other road conditions, such as location of runaway truck ramps, lack of guardrails or shoulders, sharp dropoffs, bad surfaces, narrow roadways, or when roads are in open rangeland, meaning there may be livestock on the road.
 
 2) Make sure your trailer has adequate brakes. What does adequate mean? The answer is, it depends. If the trailer is relatively heavy, and your tow vehicle is relatively light, then the trailer brakes need to be very good indeed. On the other hand, if you have a very small trailer that you tow with a heavy duty pickup, adequate may mean no brakes at all. With our setup, the van is 1,000 lbs. per wheel and the trailer is 1,600 lbs. per wheel, so I clearly need top quality brakes on the trailer.
 
 Some states require brakes on all trailers over 1,000 lbs. Others draw the line at 1,500 lbs, 2,000 lbs, and some at 3,000 lbs. One state (Massachusetts) only requires brakes on trailers over 10,000 lbs! But what is legal is not necessarily what is safe.
 
 Tow vehicle manufacturers also have limits beyond which you must have brakes. These limits are often fairly low (as low as 1,500-2,000 lbs.) and should not be exceeded. This is the weight at which the manufacturer is saying their brakes are not good enough.
 
 3) Make sure your trailer and tow vehcile brakes are in good condition. Drums and discs should meet the necesary standards. Pads and shoes should not be excessively worn or glazed. Fluid levels should be at their ideal level. If you have surge brakes, don t forget the fluid level on the trailer.
 
 4) Make sure brakes are in proper adjustment. All passenger vehicle (including pickup truck) front brakes adjust continuoulsy as you drive. Many, but not all, passenger vehicle rear brakes do as well. For those that do not, they adjust under special circumstances.
 
 The most common techniques I have seen for adjusting the rear brakes (for vehicles that do not adjust continuoulsy) are firm braking while backing up, and applying the parking brake. Find out if your vehicle uses one of these techniques, and do it every time you hook up your trailer.
 
 With electric brakes, the trailer brake or axle manufacturer has a recommended adjustment interval. Make sure you know the interval and that the necessary mechanical adjustments are made.
 
 Make sure your brake controller is adjusted and working properly. It is a good idea to test it as soon as you hit the road every time you tow.  Test it again after 5-10 miles, because electric brakes become more efficient after warming slightly.
 
 5) Reduce cargo or trailer weight. The amount of energy that needs to be dissipated is directly proportional to the weight of the vehicles being stopped. If you can reduce that weight (by leaving the canoe behind, or even better, leaving Aunt Bertha and her luggage behind), that reduces the load on the brakes. If you can take 300 lbs of gear or passengers out of the tow vehicle and trailer, that has the same impact as reducing the trailer weight by 12%.
 
 Are you really going to use all five bicycles and both canoes high in the mountains? Do you really need three 18"  Dutch ovens and four 20"  cast iron frying pans? Most of us haul a lot of stuff we never use. If you are going to the mountains, consider what you can leave behind. BTW, this will improve performace going up the hill in the first place as well.
 
 6) You ve come to the top of the hill, and there is a brake check area. Use it! If the hill is steep enough to need a brake check area, it is important to stop. Particularly if it s been a long climb up the hill, you need to stop and let your transmission cool. It s just had a workout getting up the hill, and it s going to get another going down. Give it 10 minutes or so (with the engine idling) to cool off. At the same time, make sure the trailer brakes are working.
 
 7) Downshift. The saying used to be " go down in the same gear you went up in"  but with today s high-rev engines, that is no longer adequate. Go down one gear lower than you went up. Be alert to the fact that the downhill side may be steeper than the uphill side and so you may need to downshift further. Downshifting puts some of the braking energy on the transmission and engine, which have systems that are designed to deal with the heat. Your engine will not overheat because you are using engine braking, but your transmission can, which is a good reason for an auxilliary transmission cooler.
 
  Don t ride the brakes. Allow the vehicle to coast for short periods to gain 5-10 MPH, then brake firmly to slow by 5-10 MPH. Nearly all vehicles today do very little or no braking with the rear axle brakes unless you brake firmly. By braking firmly, you shift some of the heat off the front brakes onto the rear brakes.
 
 Braking firmly also shifts more of the braking on to the trailer brakes. Trailer brakes (especially surge brakes, but it s also true of electrics) have a threshold below which they won t do much of anything. By braking firmly, you force some of that stopping energy (heat) onto the trailer brakes.
 
 Another benefit of intermittent, firm braking is that you will be more aware of when the brakes start to fade. Brake fade is a warning sign of a very dangerous overheating condition. More about that later.
 
 The benefit of coasting is that it allows the engine and transmission to absorb some of the energy (as they rev up). There is a limit to this. You don t want to redline your engine or transmission, and some automatic transmissions will upshift if they get far outside their normal operating range. Also, once the engine RPM s stop increasing, the amount of braking being done by the engine is decreased as well. This is why you need to use both the brakes and the engine.
 
 Basically, use both the brakes and the engine/transmission to control your speed.
 
 9) Slow down. Braking on a long downhill generates a lot of heat. It is important for the heat to dissipate as fast as it is generated. Since there is no easy way to speed up the cooling of the brake components, it is necessary to slow down the heating of the components. After doing all of the things listed above, there are only two ways to slow heat buildup. You have to either slow down or stop. If you come to a scenic pull-off, it won t do anyone any harm for you to stop for five to ten minutes to let things cool off.
 
 10) Be alert for signs of brakes overheating. Overheating brakes can:
 * fade to nothing
 * suddenly fail
 * cause tires to burst and/or catch fire
 * cause other suspension components to overheat
 * seize up
 * warp rotors or drums
 * a few other things I can t remember at the moment...all of them bad.
 
 Signs of brake overheating are:
 * A loss in brake effectiveness
 * A " hot"  or " metallic"  odor
 * Smoke coming from the wheels or behind the trailer or tow vehicle
 * The brake light coming on
 * Sudden " grabbiness"  to the brakes
 * Increased brake pedal travel
 * Decreased brake pedal travel
 * An unusual " soft"  or " spongy"  feeling to the brake pedal
 * An unusual " hardness"  or " stiffness"  to the brake pedal
 
 Whenever any of these things occur, you are driving into a dangerous situation that will only get worse until either: 1) you stop 2) you come to flat or uphill roadway or 3) you can t stop or can t stop in time. Since #3 is not acceptable, and you have no control over #2, stop as soon as possible when ever you get signs of brake fade.
 
 If you can t find a place to stop, stop in the road. Just make sure approaching traffic has something to warn them of your presence. Also, be aware that at this point, your brakes could be hot enough to start fires, so that is something to watch out for if you pull off into tall, dry grass, etc.
 
 11) OK, you pushed your luck, and now you are in trouble. The brakes won t stop the rig, and appear to be gone. Now what? Do the first four of these as fast as you can:
 * Pump the brakes. If the brake fluid has boiled or is leaking, this may give you some temporary brakes.
 * If possible, downshift more. A damaged engine, transmission, or clutch is better than a high speed crash.
 * Apply the emergency brake as hard as possible. There might be something there that will help you stop. The emergency brakes uses cables, so is not affected by the loss of brake fluid. Be aware, though, that on it s best day, the emergency brake will give you about 1/4 of what the regular brakes will. Even if it works perfectly, that s not much.
 * Apply the trailer brakes manually. Move the controller s lever all the way over and hold it there. Be aware that this, like the emergency brakes, isn t much, but when you ve lost it, a little is better than nothing.
 
 It shouldn t take more than five seconds to do those. Next, try:
 
 * Use that runaway truck ramp. Although they are designed for big rigs, I believe they would work for a pickup hauling a popup. I would use one, but expect some cosmetic damage to the trailer or van as a result.
 * Turn uphill. This is very rarely an option, but you can t coast uphill very far, so that will stop you.
 * Sideswipe something. This is an extreme last resort move to be used only in life-or death situations. Sideswiping a guardrail, phone pole, or parked vehicle is a move that could still kill, but is far less dangerous than slamming into the guardrail, phone pole, or parked car. You could loose all control, particularly if the air bags go off. You could end up in the face of oncoming traffic. You could injure or kill people on the side of the road. Don t get into that situation to begin with.
 
 Austin

[midwest_camper]

 luvtacamp
Our Jayco Eagle 12UDK is about the same weight as your Dutchman. Our tow vehicle is an 2000 Astro with a towing capacity of 6000 pounds. As like you we really had no problem towing with the Astro, until I had an emergency stop and all I could feel was that 2000 pounds behind me pushing and pushing when I felt I should have already been stopped. We did stop in time so no problem there, but after that I did have electric brakes installed on our camper. Now I wish I had always had them... I just feels so much better when stopping. Go ahead and make the investment, it s well worth it.