Awkward friendship/camping situation

[NightOwl]

Ooops, Campingboaters, I think--by reading between the lines where you have described "SO" and referred to SO ("that person", etc.) that I now see where some of  the problem lies and it is a bit more complicated than we first realized, but in a different way--and I think I now understand why the SO wants to tag along when it is just "girl time."


And I  think I  NOW also understand why your friend is not being more pro-active in seeing what is going on.  If I am right, you are dealing with a special kind of jealousy of you  on the SO's part and also with this person's dislike (discomfort with )and rudeness  of your  DH.  I have two sets of friends in similar liviing situations and although we all get along well, it would be a tough thing to handle if one half of the couple disliked DH or me.

I think the best thing is to just be open with your friend.  My guess is that given the length and  loyalty of your friendship  and her longtime independence she will tell her SO in a tactful way to "suck it up and accept them--I'm not giving up my friendship with cb and her DH."

I am sure your friend knows that  REAL FRIENDS are hard to find and can last a lifetime--and she probably also knows that  SO's sometimes change their minds and leave.

Good luck--it's going to be tricky, but I think it will work out OK if you just have an open talk with her like we've recommended, and be sure to let her know that you  realize WHY her SO is having a hard time accepting you and DH and that there is nothing to fear from EITHER of you in their relationship.

[birol]

I am so glad I am not the only one who confused the sex of the SO This changes quite a lot of things, but still, if the "She" SO other is still controlling and stuff, a heart to heart talk is needed with the friend.

Hope it works out at the end ....

[campingboaters]

I have to say, I didn't really want to bring this issue up and was even trying to skirt the issue so as not to offend anyone, but I'm kinda glad you guys got it.  I wasn't even completely sure if that was part of the issue or not.  Other friends of mine have pointed out that it might be jealousy on the SO's part and that I was oblivious.

My friend had not told me of her "lifestyle" until this SO came into her life two years ago, but I suspected it all along.  I never pushed the issue with her to tell me because it never mattered to me, but the fact that she never told me meant she was uncomfortable with it herself.  Of course, she's never told me LOADS of things, but we remain friends because those "things" don't matter to me.  I NEVER judge ANYONE.
 
Anyway, I just want her to be happy, but is her happiness more important than our feelings when it comes to hanging out with them? I'm afraid that talking to my friend about us not liking her SO will make it seem like I'm not comfortable with her lifestyle and THAT is so far from the truth.  
 
Is this sounding more and more like a Dear Abbey letter NOW!?  :eek:

[NightOwl]

Campingboaters, I know you were seeking ideas for this problem and trying at the same time to  keep from stirring up any negative reactions based on people's personal feelings about things like this and I admire you for that.  (BTW, we share a lot of the same  feelings about this whole matter.)

Have you thought of telling your friend that you realize HER FRIEND is uncomfortable with you and DH and feel SHE (SO) dislikes or distrusts the two of you?  So, rather than ruin their relationship you will bow out of the picture gracefully if your friend would like, and with no hard feelings toward anyone on your part, but that you cannot go on being treated in this unfriendly and disrespectful way by her SO.

I also have a dear friend of 10 years (divorced but good friends with her ex) who was very "discrete" about her personal life at first.  By the time I figured it out, I realized she was a truly good person and  this discovery made no difference to me in my feelings for her.  She is a wonderful gardenr and gifted artist, as well, and she and my DH share many common interests (they constantly trade plants & gardening advice, etc.) so they have become good friends also.

[angelsmom10]

I deleted my comment as I feel this can get into a very controversial topic....
 
Basically the situation would not bother me one way or the other.

[B-flat]

Wow, I am away a little while and something really serious comes up.  This is how I would deal with the situation.  One couse I took a long time ago was in Assertiveness Training and it's probably one of the best courses I ever took in dealing with all kinds of situations.  The major thing that is taught is to first determine who owns the problem.  In this situation, it sounds like the SO is the real owner of the problem by being "harsh, rude and saying inappropriate things."  However by allowing her to continue this behavior toward you or DH, then you are being too nice and it has become your problem and you have shied away from including your friend of 12 years in your activities.  To truly assert yourself, you look for solutions to this problem and affirm to yourself that you will not allow this SO to continue to be harsh, rude and say inappropriate things.  It sounds like you have done that and I would really speak up in front of the friend if this significant other says stuff in front of you again that is rude and disrespectful..like I don't understand your last remark, what do you mean?  By putting the SO on the spot, it will turn attention to the SO as having a problem.  I agree with the others that you should do "lunch" with your friend aand have the heart to heart talk, owning up to this difficult situation.  Not addressing these feelings will only make matters worse because the issue is being avoided continually.  It isn't going to go away.  Do let your friend know that you value her friendship, you want her to be happy and that you have known her for a long time.  Put the ball in the other court where it belongs and don't continue to feel uncomfortable with this situation.  You may find that your friend also has some feelings that need to come out in the open, too, and you may find that she will respect you all the more for coming to her and telling her how you feel.  Good luck and keep us posted.

[sandykayak]

I'm with nightowl and birol....

be up front and say that you and your hubby really don't enjoy her SO's company.  (and "by the way, dear, we don't like watching the way he treats you.  Just remember, we'll always be here for you.")

If she was single for THAT long (and people have to be real careful nowadays <>), she may be getting something really pleasant out of this relationship.

If he's a real control freak, you could give her a copy of Melody Moodie's "Codependent No More."

kinda sorta "been there...done that" (in my case with someone who gets aggravated easily and isn't the best company around other people for extended periods)

maybe she'll reach the "it was fun while it lasted" stage

[NightOwl]

Wow, I am away a little while and something really serious comes up.  This is how I would deal with the situation.  One couse I took a long time ago was in Assertiveness Training and it's probably one of the best courses I ever took in dealing with all kinds of situations.  The major thing that is taught is to first determine who owns the problem.  In this situation, it sounds like the SO is the real owner of the problem by being "harsh, rude and saying inappropriate things."  However by allowing her to continue this behavior toward you or DH, then you are being too nice and it has become your problem and you have shied away from including your friend of 12 years in your activities.  To truly assert yourself, you look for solutions to this problem and affirm to yourself that you will not allow this SO to continue to be harsh, rude and say inappropriate things.  It sounds like you have done that and I would really speak up in front of the friend if this significant other says stuff in front of you again that is rude and disrespectful..like I don't understand your last remark, what do you mean?  By putting the SO on the spot, it will turn attention to the SO as having a problem.  I agree with the others that you should do "lunch" with your friend aand have the heart to heart talk, owning up to this difficult situation.  Not addressing these feelings will only make matters worse because the issue is being avoided continually.  It isn't going to go away.  Do let your friend know that you value her friendship, you want her to be happy and that you have known her for a long time.  Put the ball in the other court where it belongs and don't continue to feel uncomfortable with this situation.  You may find that your friend also has some feelings that need to come out in the open, too, and you may find that she will respect you all the more for coming to her and telling her how you feel.  Good luck and keep us posted.

I REALLY believe that Nancy has expressed beautiully, and in just a few lines, a conclusion the rest of us were tryng to reach in our problem solving  attempts.  IMHO, here is a way to give this friendship a chance without compromising your own standards of the respect with which you have every right to be treated.

Campingboaters, Nancy has given very wise advice--you can put the confrontation  off, but eventually the friction must be faced--i.e.it can be at a time and place of your own choosing or it can be when you have  unexpectedly "had enough" and suddenly  explode in anger  & frustration putting years of friendship  at risk--perhaps ruining everything irreparably..Seems like this is bound to happen if you wait too long--and what about your DH?  (Sounds like he has about reached his limits on this, too.)

Well done, Nancy!   And cb, my thoughts are with you in this--I hope all goes well and that it ends with your valued friendship intact.  Please keep us posted.

[campingboaters]

I think I NEED to take that assertiveness training course!   I tend to shy away from conflict instead of meeting it head on.
 
I COMPLETELY agree with B-flat on how to handle this.  The advise that b-flat has given seems so simple, yet I couldn't come up with that on my own.  I LOVE the idea of putting the ball back in the SO's corner -- making HER deal with HER problem with us instead of making the problem ours.  It's EXACTLY what I'm going to do, besides hopefully have a talk with my friend.  The last thing I want to do is lose her friendship or make her unhappy, but she is going to have to deal with her SO's actions, NOT ME!
 
Thank you, thank you, thank you everyone!

[B-flat]

Now that's great news.  Yes, put the problem where it belongs!  Now just pick a time that is right to bring it up with your long-time friend.  You will know in your heart when the time is right to arrange it.  Because we are mothers, we are used to putting up with a whole lot and have a whole lot of patience.  Now that you have decided that the ball is in the other court and that you really don't own the problem anymore, it puts the problem exactly where it needs to be...on the SO.  That is enough to make you stand your ground!  And you are very right to say that your friend is the one who has to deal with (and live with) the significant other's actions. (Thank goodness the SO doesn't live in your house.   Don't let this situation worry you any longer.  That's what asserting yourself is all about:  deciding who owns the problem and taking the worry out of the sticky situations that arrive in everyone's lives.  I used to be a yes person to everything and would later get mad at myself over committing too much time to various charities, school and children's activities.  When I learned to assert myself that my schedule just wouldn't allow something, it was easier and the problem was solved.  Of course those people asking me all the time were just putting the things off on me to do because they knew I was soft.  Actually those folks were just using me for their own benefit and they were really the problem.  When I was able to identify that, it made it much easier to say no and to mean it.  It's kind of like Dear Abby telling you how to deal with the drop in neighbors or relatives, the ones that want to be entertained all the time, and the ones who won't let you get off the phone, etc.  Those are really the problems, not you.

[campingboaters]

I guess my only "problem" now is to find an assertiveness training course!  
 
Thanks B-flat and everyone else who responded.  Hopefully, this thread also helped others realize they might be in a similar situation (someone putting their problems on you to deal with) and they also gained some insight.
 
Gotta LOVE this message board!
 
 :#             :S           :W

[angelsmom10]

Just starting to take a few steps at a time, you will get the assertivness you will need!

[B-flat]

Helping others is what true friend are for any time help is needed (and you sometimes get more help than you asked for.)