Report Card: Popup Vs. Hybrid

[SactoCampers]

Well, with a few camping trips under my belt, I feel qualified to offer a comparison between camping with the popup versus the hybrid. Here it goes:
 
Ease of Setup:Hybrid wins this hands down. Setup is so much easier and faster. For example, the beds swing down and rest on the support bars. I don't have to slide the poles into notches and hold the bed up. Can also setup the front bunk while hitched up to the tow vehicle.
 
Bed Size: Popup wins this. We had a king and queen in the popup and now have a queen and double. However, our u-shaped dinette converts to a queen whereas our popup's dinette was an oversize twin.So overall, sleeping is about the same. Drawback to the bed: because the rear bed is a double, the opening to the bed from the inside is rather tight, and there's a cabinet above. I've hit my head numerous times on it. Hybrid beds are somewhat shorter.
 
Bed Comfort: They hybrid has 5" cushions versus 3" cushion on the popup. I don't have to add any eggcrate pads or anything compared with the popup.
 
Climate Control: The hybrid has more insulation due to the hard sides. Even on cold nights, the furnace doesn't cycle on often. When we have electric hookups we use the electric heater and it cycles less as well.
 
Bathroom: Draw. The popup actually had more space, but the hybrid's wet bath is more convenient. Don't have to worry as much about overspray (when showering ).
 
Floorplan: The hybrid's floorplan work's better for us. Makes me wish I had purchased the popup with a u-shaped dinette. There is one wide aisle that two people can always walk past each other, which we couldn't do in the popup.
 
Awning: Hyrid wins this hands down. It's a real self retracting awning. Takes about two minutes for one person to set up. The popup was a two person, ten-minute job. The hassle made us use it seldomly.
 
Headroom: The popup had more headroom. The hybrid has air conditioning and my hair touches it. I don't have to stoop, but it's close. I'm 6/1. Never had to worry about head room with the popup.
 
Sunlight: Popup wins this, especially on gloomy, cold days when you can't open the hybrid bunk end canvas for light, because you want to stay warm. But when it is nice outside and you can, the hybrid does feel quite spacious.
 
Storage: Hybrid wins this and was one of the main selling points for us. We don't bring heavy stuff, just bulky stuff and I didn't like the popup being so cluttered. Much more storage and many cabinets. We don't have to stoop to get at stuff, and don't need to bring as many plastic binds. Also like being able to pack directly into the trailer as opposed to into bins, then the van, then into the popup. Saves time.
 
Towing: Draw. I tow with a 1998 Chrysler Town & Country LXi AWD 3.8 V6. I could maintain faster speed on hills with the popup due to it's lighter weight and low profile. But the minivan has handled the hybrid (1999 Starcraft Travelstar 17CK) admirably. On hills I could tow 60 mph with the popup (2300 lbs), I can tow the hybrid at 50 mph (3000 lbs) without the gas pedal fully depressed. Acceleration is more than adequate and I can exceed 65 mph when needed. I can feel the added wind resistance, but wouldn't characterize it as a "brick wall" as others have. Hybrid is same width as popup, so I only have additional height. This past trip I averaged 12 mph in mixed driving, mpg readout on the van reads 14 mpg at 60 mph. The hybrid/minivan combination is rock solid with anti-sway bar and single-bar weight distribution. Towing was a concern of mine before, but not anymore. Hitching up takes longer than with the popup due to WD, anti-sway, and not having a tongue wheel to move the trailer around. I have to line up perfectly under the coupler. Not a big deal and I've become pretty good at it without any gadgets.
 
Greywater/Blackwater: Hybrid wins this one since the tanks are internal and I don't have to do anything until they need emptying. When that occurs, I have a small plastic container that I can use to bleed greywater. The popup was nice because I could just take out the cassette potty and empty it. But having two separate greywater tanks for sink and shower was less convenient. 8-gallon blackwater tank ensures we can always go a full weekend without emptying. 25-gallon greywater requires us to conserve. I did have to tow home with full tanks one time until I found a gas station with a sewer. But that would have occurred with the popup unless I had clearance to dump greywater in the bathroom or on the ground.
 
Fridge: Hybrid wins here. The fridge is bigger and has a small freezer. It also lights on propane from the inside and the pilot light is easier to see. Cooling ability is about the same.
 
Camping feel: Popup wins here. Can't beat all canvas for the camping feel.
 
Overall convenience: Hybrid wins. It is so much easier and takes so much less time to setup and breakdown. I also like being able to get into it and pull out sandwiches while driving. Packing and unpacking are easier. These were the reasons we bought it.
 
Other conveniences in the hybrid: microwave, inside battery storage, covered propane storage, exterior storage compartments, easy black and grey water drainage, air conditioning, interior 12V receptacle, two large storage cabinets (one with clothes hanger), bunk end light, double sink, exterior hot and cold freshwater bleed lines, rear storage rack to strap my astroturf.
 
With a toddler and a new baby on the way, the popup was becoming too inconvenient. We were spending way too much time packing, setting up camp, breaking camp, and unpacking than we were actually spending camping. The floorplan of our popup, while ideal when we bought it, was not working out for us with a child.
 
If it were just Mrs. Sacto and me, we would still be in the popup, But the hybrid was the right decision for us at this point in our life with one child and another on the way... and the price was right. We are really enjoying it, but unfortunately, won't be able to go out again for many months since the baby is due in late June.
 
I tried to be as objective in my comparison as I could. If anybody has any comments to add or questions, just fire away. It's been fun learning about my new toy.

[OC Campers]

what Hybrid do you have? at only 3000lbs I'd definately

be interested!
 
Randall

[SactoCampers]

what Hybrid do you have? at only 3000lbs I'd definately
 
be interested!
 
Randall

Randy,
 
It's a 1999 Starcraft Travelstar 17ck. It's ~3000 lbs loaded scale weighed. Sticker inside says 2352 lbs.
 
It's a small 17-footer. Queen/double bed with U-shaped dinette that converts to a queen. This is a typical floorplan for a 7' wide 17-foot hybrid. Many brands are 7'3", 7'6", and even 8' wide. Weights vary quite a bit from brand to brand so you'll have to do some research, but mine is definitely not the only light one out there. Trail-Lite is a good place to start. But these small 7' wide, light hybrids are getting harder to find.

[Diplomat]

Thanks for taking the time to put this together for us.  We upgraded our TV and are now naturally interested in a new trailer     The hybrids are very attractive to us because we like the open feel of them.  I was really interested in your take on the beds.  I know that the PU's have larger beds, the advantage of the hybrids, like the PU's, is that the beds don't take away from the floor space.  

As funny as it may sound I like the set up and take down ritual of the PU, it's still campin'!  Hybrids seem to provide a hybrid camping experience too!  One of these days we will move to one.  I don't think of it as moving up or down, just a move.

[SactoCampers]

Thanks for taking the time to put this together for us. We upgraded our TV and are now naturally interested in a new trailer The hybrids are very attractive to us because we like the open feel of them. I was really interested in your take on the beds. I know that the PU's have larger beds, the advantage of the hybrids, like the PU's, is that the beds don't take away from the floor space.
 
As funny as it may sound I like the set up and take down ritual of the PU, it's still campin'! Hybrids seem to provide a hybrid camping experience too! One of these days we will move to one. I don't think of it as moving up or down, just a move.

I suppose the relevance in my comparison is that the hybrid we bought is more of a lateral move than an "upgrade" considering overall length when opened is the same, 21-feet, as is the width, 7'. For us, the convenience and other benefits have outweighed the drawbacks.
 
Regarding the beds, I thought the seam in the middle (the mattress folds) would be an issue, but it hasn't been. Additionally, if you open up a sleeping bag and place it over the mattress, then set up your regular sleeping arrangements,  the seam becomes "seamless".

[Michicampers]

Thanks for the very thorough comparison. We would like to move on to a hybrid at some point - ideally a small bunkhouse model, no slides. One of these days!

[Gone-Camping]

I agree with most of his comparisons. I do have a different trailer, it's bigger at 23' long, and 8' wide, and weighs a little more (3025# without options/3350 with A/C, propane, and awning).
 
I have noticed a big drop in fuel economy, but this trailer is definately wider and higher than the PU, and so far I've mostly done mountain towing. But the 6 cyl Jeep has handled it admirably, can still hold 65mph up moderate inclines but loses some speed on the bigger hills, and looses lots of speed on a steep mountain incline.
 
I have a full bath instead of the wet bath, it has it's pro's & cons. The seperate bath & shower are small but adequate, however...one end is over the wheel well and there is something akin to a seat in there, which makes it difficult to stand in an already tight enclosure. The toilty area is a little too small for a wide body like myself, but the kids have no problems with it. It sure does come in handy as a "Used Beer Depot" though!
 
Tanks are 30/30/30 and we don't really use the fresh water tank, so that's a non-issue. The gray tank can fill fast, but we use campground facilities for showers and going #2, so we can get several days on the both the gray and black tanks.
 
I am disappointed in the lack of windows, only one window on the drivers side, and two on the door side. However, the trade-off is well worth it. I spend most of my camping time outside anyways, and was always kind of bothered by people being able to see into the PU. When I am inside, it's usually because I'm busy doing something anyway. If I want to look outside, I just go outside (for the most part that is).
 
Beds...well, I'm not thrilled with them, and still use an airmattress on top of the OEM foam beds. They are thicker, but too hard for me. Once you've succommed to lower spine surgury you'll understand this.
 
Ease of set-up, well let's just say that I'll never go back to a PU again!!! Now that I'm going to work for an RV dealer, maybe that 5th wheel I've been wanting will become a reality!
 
BTW, mine is suppose to max out at 4500#, and though I've never weighed it, I'm pretty sure it's right around 4000# fully loaded and ready to roll. I don't carry around that much stuff, even a few items that I used to carry in the PU that are not carried in this trailer.

[campingboaters]

I agree whole-heartedly with each point.  We really love our hybrid over our pop-up.  Only thing DH complains about is the sink is too low in our hybrid and his back hurts when I make him wash the dishes.
 
IF we ever "upgrade", we'll get another hybrid.  I would love to have a slide-out, more comfortable mattresses (prefereably heated) and beds that I could leave made when you close the bunks.  Oh, and I believe there are some hybrids that the canvas is permanently attached on the ends -- no need to snap them on each time.  The addition of all but the first item would make setup even easier.  Of course, SOME people would tell me just to get a hard-sided camper, but I would need a much bigger (and heavier) hard-side to get the space and open feeling I get in my hybrid.  Those people would be the same ones that don't get that "camping" feeling you get in tent, pop-up or even in a hybrid (to some degree).  
 
I, like Sactocamper, would still be in a pop-up if it wasn't for the extra work young children bring with them.  Camping is something we want to enjoy -- not to dread all the work.

[jawilson]

Great post. Thanks for the info...

[griffsmom]

I too have been tiring of the set up required of our pop up, especially while trying to wrangle a 3 y/o monkey, and have been indulging myself in dreams of a hybrid.  I absolutely love the Starcraft Travelstar floorplan with the bunks off the front and back and then a third one off the back side.  The dealbreaker for us is that DH is 6'5" and interior height on most hybrids is 6'4".  Add a/c (which we would) and it's even lower.  The smaller beds would also prove to be problematic.  
 
If I could find a hybrid in the floorplan I described above, with an interior height of at least 6'6" and beds at least 80" long, then I bet I could finagle my way into taking delivery of my dream hybrid before the end of the year. And yet, I adore our pop up too. I just have to keep reminding myself that set up should become a little bit easier as my DS gets older...oh yeah, and if we didn't bring so many "necessities" on our trips.  :yikes:

[OC Campers]

Another pro and con is the storage.  A hybrid doesn't fit in a garage.  Here in Southern California a storage space could cost upwards of $200 a month depending on the size and location.  We are lucky and could fit our pu in the garage but we have small RV spaces in our townhome complex that charge only $20 a month.  A larger hybrid (21-23 ft) wouldn't fit in these spaces.

I think in the future if we have a place to store it (like our driveway) we probably would purchase a hybrid but for now we are thinking of buying one of the new Highlander series from Fleetwood.
 
Jacqui

[griffsmom]

but for now we are thinking of buying one of the new Highlander series from Fleetwood.
 
Jacqui

Those are nice, and Dave and I looked at those too. But they don't solve my biggest complaint--having to unload/set up the inside of the camper.  I think my biggest attraction with the hybrid is that everything is already where it belongs inside the camper, rather than on the floor waiting to be put away before you can use the camper.

[Calstate361]

Great post Sacto...
 
I agree that it is much easier with all the stuff we take on a trip being in the cabinets, except unless you have problems with the doors opening up and then the stuff still ends up on the floor. We were having problems with the medicine cabinet always opening up and everything in it ending up on the floor. When we took it in for warrenty work, the dealer added a long strip of velcro (wonderful stuff) to the inside and that solved that problem. We still have problems with the cabinet above the stove opening up on us. This last trip the roads were very curvey and the rubber band I had wrapped around the door handles to keep the dishes inside broke and when we got to the campground, almost everything in that cabinet was on the floor. I have correlle ware and it actually broke a dessert dish and a bowl. I saved the pieces because the Corning Ware store will replace the items that broke if you bring in the peices, if they still carry it. So on the way home Sal gave me one of those rubber bungy type things with the ball on one end (I think he got them at Camping World) and that solved the problem. Nothing on the floor when we got home.
 
Anyway, we have the Stafcraft TravelStar 23RBS and most of the comments Sacto mentioned are right on. However, my biggest complaint is that the design does not have any drawers so I have to use little baskets for spices, dish towels, etc. They have one slide out tub under the sink and that is all. I'm hoping that Sal will feel well enough to do some mods for me by adding drawers inside the cabinet where the current tub is located and put in some sliding sleves for the pots and pans and other stuff in that same, very long, cabinet under the sink. This cabinet has 3 doors, but one long shelf inside.
 
The foam pads for the beds are also to thin for me so I use an Aero Bed. It puts me closer to the top of the bunk, but the much better sleep is worth it, and doesn't seem to be a problem.
 
We have a slide out, more like a bump out because it comes out only about half the width of the couch. But just that little bit seems to add a lot more space.
 
We really enjoy our Hybred.
 
Joan

[Used 2B PopUPTimes]

Anybody interested in being the "Hybrid Editor" for the mag.  The perks out weigh the pay if you do it right.
If you're interested and can write call me.

[Civil_War_Buff]

Anybody interested in being the "Hybrid Editor" for the mag.  The perks out weigh the pay if you do it right.
If you're interested and can write call me.

Sounds like a great job for Steve (Y-Guy), he is well versed in Hybrid and has a great well rounded perspective where hybrids are concerned!

C'mon Steve, step up here!!