Looking for hybrid info on Tail-Cruiser & Bantams

[NightOwl]

well, gang since Billy's health problems  with his back and other bones have continued to be a problem, it looks like my beloved TrailManor will  have to go to another home sometime next spring or summer.  Dang!  We thought it would see us into our Golden Years and then into the parking lot of the nursing home we go to when we reach full senility.  But alas, something else seems to be in our future.

Some of our  friends think (and have said so pretty bluntly) that the bunk ends of all hybrids are junk, leak, are made out of  poor quality vinyl, cause condensation and mould, etc etc, and tell us we are foolish to get anything but a TT.

BUT the  kind (size, weight) of TT  we can tow with the aerostar is so small,  that I know it just will not work--and I have surfed the web endlessly the past week looking at ALL  small TT's and just have given up that idea completely.

(I'm trying to keep within a tow weight of about 35-3,800 pounds) and plan to use an Equalizer hitch.

To be honest, I loved the canvas bunk ends of our big old Skamper and  the open beds of the TM and   also the space provided by having pull-out beds in both vehicles.  So unless something goes very amiss before next year, it looks like a hybrid is what we will have.

Looking at the R-Vision product line and "listening" to  Bantam and Trail Cruiser owners has convinced me that one of them will be our best choice and I am thinking of the 17 or 18' versions of them--very similar models although somewhat different in the floor plans, specs, and options.

My only complaint about R-Vision is they have the most uninformative and backwards website I have ever seen.  No company address, no dealer listings, no phone number, no specs--my God, are these people producing Stealth Bombers, WMD or something?

Well, I found a couple other  good sites which give the specs and NOW:  those of you who own one of these cuties, please  let me know what you think.  What do you tow with?  Also, I am VERY curious about how the bunk ends are supported. How much trouble and work and time are required to open or close them?  (Do they use  those shepherd crook things to keep the canvas up?)   Do they close well without leaking? Also, is the inside fully usable if you stop to rest or have lunch or do the mattresses intrude into the cabin?

 I know Cliff has one he is delighted with so I hope he will share some details here.  I will appreciate any info you care to share.  

And the dealership I finally found them at is in a town I drive through about 8 times per year--so no problem getting my hands on one.

Any information will be greatly appreciated,  (A

[campingboaters]

Here's my take on our Trail Cruiser.  I liek the construction and it was the lightest hybrid for it's size when we bought it a couple years ago.  The only complaint I have with our hybrid is the beds -- everything about them, really.  I don't like that the canvas isn't permanently attached.  I wish they were supported with cables on the inside instead of poles on the outside.  I wish I didn't have to make and un-make the beds on EVERY trip. We use egg crate mattress toppers to make the beds more comfortable and you have to take them out before folding the beds.  The beds aren't that comfortable.  Even the thick foam bottoms out and if you have to lay on the creases in the mattress, it's even less comfortable -- hence the need (for us) for the mattress toppers.

Other than than, we LOVE our hybrid and will most likely upgrade to another hybrid.  Actually, I've been looking HARD at the caravans and KZ Frontiers with the hard-slide queen bed.  Unfortunately for you, they would be too heavy.
 
As for usability, you can use the inside of the camper even with the beds closed.  We often stop on the raod to go food shopping or bathroom breaks and you just hop right in and do what you have to do. It's VERY convenient.
 
With all of this said, I'm not trying to steer you away from a hybrid or a trail-cruiser/bantam.  I think you need to look at other hybrids out there and see what you can put up with as you get older.  The beds might not be an issue for you, but we have little kids and everything seems to take WAY longer for us to do.  The only thing I would steer you toward (IF you REALLY want a hybrid) is the cable supported beds with permanently attached canvas.  THAT alone will make setting up a hybrid SO much easier.  I'm not sure how many manufacturers are going that route, but I do know KZ and Jayco now do that -- and maybe Thor?
 
Good luck in your search for the perfect camper (for you) and ask more questions!

[chasd60]

I have a Bantam B23S and really like it. I did not shop around but picked a floorplan and went back to CFO in Wisconsin. I like the layout and features in mine but I have also seen the Jayco KIWI that Genef has. The floorplan is the same but there are differences in how the layout translates up to the ceiling. For instance I have a wardrobe that does not go completely to the ceiling but has a shelf on top of it. Gene's wardrobe goes to the ceiling......I like mine better. I have a pantry that is above my furnace and next to my stove, the pantry is as deep as the bottom cabinets. Gene's pantry goes out as far as his top cabinets and therefore is in line with his wardrobe.........I like Gene's pantry better even though it is not as deep, it also allows more room for opening the bathroom door.
 
 The KIWI that Gene has, also has a much wider entry door. This could come in very handy, especially when you are trying to carry something in.
 
 Bottom line is to look at all of the brands that have the floorplan you like and are within your towing range. The Bantams are lighter because they are also narrower than the others.

[griffsmom]

what about a lightweight TT with a hard-sided sliding bunk end?  There's no canvas if you're worried about the problems listed by your friends...

http://www.arubarv.com/aruba_floorplans_ltt.html

[6Quigs]

Those Aruba's are just a bit heavy for an Aerostat to tow with.
Even the lightest one weighs 4,300 lbs dry!

The new Hybrid from Base Camp just might do, with a dry weight of 2,800 lbs.

If the reason you are getting rid of the Trailmanor, is because of Billie's health, I wouldn't be even considering a hybrid. From what I saw of Civil War Buff's Trailmanor, opening the ends did not require a lot of effort, and in comparision, the bunk end on our hybrid does require a bit more effort. Not something I'd want to be doing with a bad back, reaching up to unscrew the clamps, reaching up to pull down the bed, and then wrestling the matress into place. Then the reverse when packing up.
I highly recommend you visit a dealership, and open a bunk end or two, just to make sure you are aware of the work involved.

[NightOwl]

thanks everyone--you have given me a lot to think about.  And yes, like some of you suggested, there is a strong possibility that we will just be better offf to  get a lightweight TT and not mess with pullout bunkends.  

The TrailManor is relatively easy and quick to open and if the hybrids are not easier to deal with, then they will offer little or  no advantage to us as 6Quigs mentioned. Another  main reason we need  a "non-popup" is so that we can frequently pull into a rest area and go into whatever we are towing and Billy can stretch out and  rest his cramped muscles.  Fibromyalgia is a miserable thing, and when you are 6'2" you really cant sit in one place for hours at a time without suffering for it.  Being able to go stretch out full length for even 15-20 minutes really helps.

(Sometimes on long trips, we take out the back seats in the Aerostar and put a fullsized foam twin bed mattress in the back and Billy will switch back and forth  between the seat and the mattress.  Of course, a motorhome--even a small one--then offers certain advantages like being able to change positions in transit--but MoHo's  cost big bucks and the gas mileage is really pitiful.)

Fortunately we are   8 or 9 months from having to make a final decision, and the kind of information you-all have provided is invaluable.    If you have any other thoughts, I am open to all suggestions and really need and appreciate the input.

[SactoCampers]

Since it's debatable whether setting up a hybrid is substantially easier than the Trailmanor. The lightweight hardside might be the way to go. If that is the case, you will want to look at the 16-foot Shadow Cruiser and Road Runner 16-foot models. Since I'm towing my 17-foot hybrid with a 180 hp/240 ft-lb torque Chrysler Town & Country, I can't recommend you towing much larger than that with your Aerostar (152 hp, 192 ft-lb torque according to MSN ). But then again, you were towing the 30-foot Trailmanor model with the Aerostar. I imagine the performance would be comparable. Small hardside is lighter, but more wind resistance.
 
Road Runner 161 (http://www.sunvalleyinc.com/floorplans/roadrunner/rr161.htm) gives you a rear gaucho bed to stretch out on, but has wet bath.
 
Road Runner 162 (http://www.sunvalleyinc.com/floorplans/roadrunner/rr162.htm) gives you a rear canvas bunk end with a dry bath.
 
Road Runner 160 (http://www.sunvalleyinc.com/floorplans/roadrunner/rr160.htm) gives you the pseudo-double bed and awkward table arrangment, but could possibly work for two people.
 
Shadow Cruiser 16-foot is more for small families as it has bunk beds.
 
Road Runner 180 could possibly work since you have an Equalizer hitch. But I think it's getting too heavy for your Aerostar.
 
A small hardside will be MUCH smaller inside than your TM and in some models you will have to convert the dinette to a bed each night. We've found it to be a minor inconvenience in our hybrid. Though I wouldn't say setting up the hybrid bunk end is any harder than setting up the dinette. Road Runner makes a 16-foot model with a pseudo-double bed, but the interior looks really cramped. Your best bet may be to look at the Bantam Flyer.
 
I think most hybrids you can leave the the trailer and tow vehicle hooked up while opening the front bunkend, allowing for those rest area overnights or quick stretches. I sometimes leave the bunk poles in the back of the van and immediately insert them, rather than go inside to grab them, so poles vs. cables isn't an issue for me. In a hybrid with U-shaped dinette, you can just leave it permanently set up as a Queen bed and pop out the rear bunk for storage when needed. You have a lot more flexibility that way. Our dinette bed is fine lengthwise in my Starcraft, and I'm 6'1". It's quite comfortable with an opened sleeping bag and then regular sheets and blankets over it. Only, I don't get to sleep there...that's where little Sactobabyboy and Mrs. Sacto sleep. Me and Sactotoddlergirl sleep on the front bunk.
 
You're somewhat limited with your van. Any real permanent bed inside will require a trailer larger than your van can adequately handle.
 
As far as condensation and leaking in the rain, it's been a non-issue for us, and we have four people all sleeping toward the front of the trailer.

[NightOwl]

Thanks, Brian, for taking the time to provide so many thought-provoking details and the links.  I have already seen the ShadowCruiser and it is a dandy--Al was pushing me to look at it way last spring when I first began to have these thoughts.

I am keeping all my options open at this point and  that includes a change of tow vehicle, perhaps to an E-150 which would be plenty of power for all we'd ever be interested in towing.

I have been at this  search for several weeks seriously now and have come across a lot of  really great websites with all kinds of helpful info and nice friendly people as well.  Some of them have already been very enthusiastic  about providing details of their rigs and how they like them and this is helping a lot.

I intend to pick Cliff's brain some more too, about the general quality of the TrailCruisers, both TT and hybrid.

The big joke is that I will probably also be buying a used, lightweight popup to use in  Maine and leave there with my cousin so that it will be there whenever I go.  There is some fantastic camping near her  in that gorgeous state and I made up my mind last summer after talking to some friends and neighbors there that  I was going to do some "simple camping" next time I go (strictly SUMMERTIME  camping, OF COURSE!)

[NightOwl]

OOOPs, forgot to add--I really like what I can see about the RoadRunner--even the 18 would probably work as it is so much less than the TM--about 3,700 pounds loaded  and towable over the 8% grades  by  even the van I have now (with the WDH, of course.)  I figiure the options for the RR would only come to about 3-400 pounds tops and we are palnning to travel pretty lightly otherwise.

Now if I just knew where to get some  prices and where there is a dealer...

As nice as the Shadowcruiser is in person, its starting base weight is way more heavy than we  want to mess with....

[SactoCampers]

OOOPs, forgot to add--I really like what I can see about the RoadRunner--even the 18 would probably work as it is so much less than the TM--about 3,700 pounds loaded and towable over the 8% grades by even the van I have now (with the WDH, of course.) I figiure the options for the RR would only come to about 3-400 pounds tops and we are palnning to travel pretty lightly otherwise.
 
Now if I just knew where to get some prices and where there is a dealer...
 
As nice as the Shadowcruiser is in person, its starting base weight is way more heavy than we want to mess with....

Elisa,  check out my website for my experience towing a small hybrid with a minivan. It might give you some insight what you can expect with a V6.
 
http://sactocampers.tripod.com/

[NightOwl]

Brian, your last post has given us even more to think about--went to your website and read the whole thing. EXCELLENT!   It really takes up  areas I havent seen covered  before about the technicalities of towing and other important things to take into consideration besides  weight.

We may do this backwards--get the RV while we are only traveling mainly "flatlands" in the East  and then upgrade the TV before we actually go West again.  Billy still does some trout fishing here in our local mountains and never has lost the urge to go back to Montana and Wyoming, also Colorado, for a month of fishing-camping like we used to do.    A TT or a hybrid would allow us to make that trip in much greater  comfort and convenience.

Now that he is fully retired, we are blessed with  the time and money to do whatever we want and are considering ways to take advantage of that.