Quality vs Quantity?

[GeorgiaBoy]

I have been looking at new pop-ups and am asking for your professional input: quantity or quality?

I have found the Fleetwood (Resolute) fairly comparable to the Palomino Yearling 4103 in looks and size, but the Fleetwood is way more expensive!  About $1500 more!!

However, the Fleetwood has the Coleman name behind it while almost no one I have talked to has ever heard of the Palomino.  The Fleetwood dealer (Peco in Decatur, GA) seemed A LOT more knowledgeable and offered a complete service center with accessible parts, while the Palomino dealer had no service center and couldn't assure me he could get replacement parts and/or accessories if I needed them. The Fleetwood also prides itself on steel body skeleton while Palomino is wooden.  Front storage trunk on Fleetwood is plastic inside w/drain so you can spray it down for cleaning - Palomino is wooden inside and risks rot if it gets wet at all.

The only thing i didn't like about the Fleetwood Resolute is that there is virtually no counter space near the stove/sink ... or anywhere else, for that matter. Instead it has extra seating area. The Palomino has a nice counter top room for meal prep, etc.  If I went up one model of the Fleetwood to get the counter space, I'm looking at the Victory, but it has shower/toilet and I'm looking at yet another $1,000 more...and I don;t really need the shower/toilet.

With the Palomino being $1500 less, I can get a lot of camping extras while spending the same as the Fleetwood.

So:  Fleetwood-$8500  vs  Palomino-$7000 ... Quality  vs  Quantity

Any suggestions?  Any other makes/models suggested?

And yes, i've considered used, but individuals appear to be selling/expecting $1000+ over NADA value ... 4 year old pop-ups selling for a few hundred less than new!?  I'll take new.

Any help would be appreciated!!

[copcarguy]

I have had a brand new 2001 Coleman Taos, outgrew that and traded it in on a brand new 2003 Coleman Carmel with all the options.  Both campers seemed to have a bunch of little things that didn't "go wrong" but, well, should not have happened on brand new rigs...  Counter tops cracking, doors not fitting, water fittings leaking, little things that taken separately are nothing, but add up 10 or 15 "little things" and it makes you think the campers are garbage.  I take above average care of my vehicles, and maybe that's why the "little things" bothered me so much...  I just got rid of my 2003 Carmel because I just couldn't stand to see it falling apart.  The seat cushions literally ripped apart during the dealer walk-through.  I hadn't even hitched it up yet.  
 
In the end, go with the better dealer no matter what brand you choose, the dealer is the factor that will keep you happy in the long run.

[SpeakEasy]

GeorgiaBoy,

You asked for opinions, and that's all I have to offer. It is not, however, a "professional" opinion. (I get paid to teach, not to camp.) Remember, concerning advice (and lots of other things), you get what you pay for.

When we bought our Coleman five years ago we had to make the same choice. We saw clear indications of higher quality throughout the Coleman as compared with other brands. (FLAME AWAY!) Obviously, we opted to pay a little more and go for quality. I've never regretted it. The quality of the Coleman has been far from perfect, but I am convinced that I would have had more problems if I had chosen a cheaper brand. These units take a beating when they're on the road. Life as a popup is a hard life. The manufacturers have to make choices between designs that can withstand the beating and designs that are affordable. If you can observe a difference in quality between the two choices you're looking at, chances are there are additional quality differences that are not observable. Five years after our decision, with well over 15,000 miles of camping under our belts, I would choose the same camper in a heartbeat.

Also, I echo what copcarguy says about the dealer being a crucial factor in keeping you happy in the long run.

[hoppy]

Well, I can speak for both manufacturers.

 My first PU was a 1978 Palomino M-7 model that I purchased used back in 1992. Gave it to my daughter and SIL when I purchased my used 2001 Coleman Mesa in 2003.

 Starting with the 2004 models, the Coleman name is no longer associated with Fleetwood, so all models starting from that point will only be labeled Fleetwood. But just to give a brief history, Fleetwood has been the builder of the Coleman brand PU's since 1989.

 Now on to the comparisons.

 There are many reasons why the Coleman/Fleetwood units are more expensive, and many are construction and item related. Coleman has a full perimeter tubular chassis that not only provides added structure support, in many instances if you need to add a WDH, these PU's can handle one. Also starting in 2001, all their models come standard with electric brakes. Many other manufactures this will be an added option. All their units incorporate a leaf spring suspension system instead of tortion style suspension.  These are just some of the standard features that will increase the base price of the Fleetwood models. Your Resolute is in a catagory that includes a wide "Stepper Door and one piece door style", crank down stabilizers, Swing Level galley, front storage compartment seperated from the main box, outside HP stove just to state some of the standard features that maybe considered options with the Yearling, so I can see the reasons for the pricing disparity.

  The front storage change becoming molded vinyl and seperated from the box was due to a storage door / lid leakage and floor rotting issue that Fleetwood was having with their earlier models. (my Mesa falls into the this catagory) Instead of fixing the leaking issue, (lots of warranty replacement floors involved) they made the storage area "Damage Proof", and market them as being able to hose them out, and pulling the plug.  My storage area never gets bad enough needing to be hosed out, so the sales marketing statement given to the dealers from Fleetwood must be working.  

 The Resolute was selling for $ 7,795.00 during the January show, and it included 3-way fridge, AC, and a bag style awning.

  Speaking on behalf of Peco, they are a top notch dealer. One of the best here in the south east. Excellent service center and sales department.  As for the local Palomino dealer, (decorum will not allow me to post their name) their service was the worst that I ever come acrossed.

  My daughter and SIL sent the Palomino in for service over the winter months to have service (lube the lift system and adjust the cables, grease the wheel bearings, etc) and three weeks later they called and told them that the lift cable snapped during the service, and a new system and roof would cost $ 2,000.00. Keep in mind that the lift system worked perfectly from 1978 to 2003, and just seams to "snap" while they were "servicing" it. They also were pushing new Palomino brochures at them when they went to pick up the broken camper. Even had the "stones" to charge them labor costs they incured. I guess it took them some time to snap the cable, and needed to be compensated for their time.  But long story made short, I found a replacement cable for $ 19.95, SIL and I installed and adjusted the lift system in a couple of hours. Works as good as before it went to the Palomino dealer.

  Keep in mind that you are not just purchasing a PU, you are buying the dealer's reputation at the same time.

  Palomino and Fleetwood make great products IMHO (proof that the 78' Palomino is still going strong after all these years), but in this here area, there is a big difference in the two dealers.

   Make sure you understand everything that is included as standard and just what the options are before making the selection based on pricing.

   But you won't go wrong picking either manufacturers models.... only the dealers you have to choose from.  IMHO.

   Good luck.

[Camping Coxes]

However, the Fleetwood has the Coleman name behind it while almost no one I have talked to has ever heard of the Palomino. The Fleetwood dealer (Peco in Decatur, GA) seemed A LOT more knowledgeable and offered a complete service center with accessible parts, while the Palomino dealer had no service center and couldn't assure me he could get replacement parts and/or accessories if I needed them. The Fleetwood also prides itself on steel body skeleton while Palomino is wooden. Front storage trunk on Fleetwood is plastic inside w/drain so you can spray it down for cleaning - Palomino is wooden inside and risks rot if it gets wet at all.
 
The only thing i didn't like about the Fleetwood Resolute is that there is virtually no counter space near the stove/sink ... or anywhere else, for that matter. Instead it has extra seating area. The Palomino has a nice counter top room for meal prep, etc. If I went up one model of the Fleetwood to get the counter space, I'm looking at the Victory, but it has shower/toilet and I'm looking at yet another $1,000 more...and I don;t really need the shower/toilet.
 

First of all, the name change as previously discussed -- it's the same camper, just rebadged due to the litigation.  Coleman was the name everyone associates with camping, so Fleetwood was happy to be able to use it.  
 
Second, I've lived in your part of the world (Ft. McClellan, AL) and remember the massive thundershowers that would flood the streets and make everything steamy.  Therefore, a wooden frame wouldn't even be a consideration for me.  Add to that the fact the my 14YO son landed hard istting on his bed yesterday and we heard boards snap, and I'm wondering how a wood framed trailer would hold up to bumpy roads, hard use, etc.
 
Thirds, the storage trunk being hoseable/drainable is a plus.  You'd be amazed how much crud accumulates in there!  Ours is the old style that is attached and part of the trailer and I wondered why they changed.  I like being able to reach through the access door to get to something, and I use the door as a dirty laundry chute as well.  But now that I know the reason for the change, I like it.  Picture this:  You store some bottled water in there for the drive to the CG and it leaks -- no problem with the plastic box.
 
As for the counter space, you can always use the dining table for food prep.  How much do you plan to cook indoors anyway?  I almost never use my indoor stove, cooking outdoors because I don't want smells in my trailer, splatters on my drapes and I like to have room to spread out.  We set up a foldable table alongside the outside stove and it works great.  So really consider how much counterspace you really need.  This isn't a house where you'll have flour/sugar/coffee canisters, a coffee pot, a toaster, etc. all sitting on your counter for easy access.  
 
And lastly, it sounds like the Fleetwood dealer will be a better option for you.  You can read all kinds of posts on this board about nightmare dealers.  I can tell you that when we were looking I went to a well-known dealership (not Coleman/Fleetwood) and was looking at trailers.  The salesman immediatley starting in on "What can I do to get you to take this trailer home today?"  We had been there about, oh, two minutes.  I had researched extensively different trailers, and when my husband asked the salesman a question that I already knew the answer to (and was an easy question in my opinion) he didn't know and had to go look it up.  I want a dealer who knows the products so when I call and say, "The doohickey switch on my thingy at the galley is broken" he'll know exactly what I'm talking about.  Are you willing to drive to a far away dealership to get service or a small part?  I wouldn't be.
 
Good luck in your decision.  It sounds like you have the answer in your own post when you're weighing the pros and cons.

[beacher]

So:  Fleetwood-$8500  vs  Palomino-$7000 ... Quality  vs  Quantity

Any suggestions?  Any other makes/models suggested?

Regarding the Fleetwood, that $8500 is MSRP, count on paying at least 25% less normally, and as much as 30-40% if you wait until the end of June.  Thats when the 2006 models will be announced and the dealers REALLY want to move their inventory.  My sparkly new 2004 GTE Niagara sold for $8500, with an MSRP of $12,500, West of the Mississippi.

Palomino makes good long lasting PUPs too.  As you noticed ther are build quailty differences that you will pay for.

Bottom line.  Which dealer would you rather work with?

[GeorgiaBoy]

They had the Resolute listed at $7695 w/o A/C ... add $500 for A/C .  The $8500 I stated includes tax.

They had a price chart posted stating MSRP of over $10,000 w/o A/C and claiming they were already offering 20% off.

I told they guy to throw in the A/C at $7695 and I would sign right there.  He said no because they had already reduced the price so much, pointing to their little price sheet.

I said thanks but no and walked out, and he chased me down in the parking lot saying his boss OK'd $200 off if i took the floor model.  Just $300 more and I would have signed.

I again said thanks but know and left.

Am I out of line?

[Tim5055]

They had the Resolute listed at $7695 w/o A/C ... add $500 for A/C .  The $8500 I stated includes tax.

They had a price chart posted stating MSRP of over $10,000 w/o A/C and claiming they were already offering 20% off.

I told they guy to throw in the A/C at $7695 and I would sign right there.  He said no because they had already reduced the price so much, pointing to their little price sheet.

I said thanks but no and walked out, and he chased me down in the parking lot saying his boss OK'd $200 off if i took the floor model.  Just $300 more and I would have signed.

I again said thanks but know and left.

Am I out of line?

Actually in the case of Peco you may be asking a little too much.  They generally are a "no haggle" dealer.  The price you see is the price you pay.  They generally have some show specials and give all the deals FFT passes along.

Take a look at the equipment list they have posted.  The PUs that Peco has displayed usually includes several "options" which they have included in their posted price.

As others have said, Peco is a class act.  In all my dealings with them they have gone over and above.

A couple of examples:

Whe I took my Niagara camping the first time I discovered that the roof didn't sit squarly on the box when closed up.  i took it back top Peco and they discovered tha the door side wall had been improperly installed at the factory.  They repaired it witin a few days and called FFT on my behalf complaining that a new camper should not have that kind of problem.  The talked the factory into paying for some more options for my trailer to "compensate" me for my time.  Most dealerships would have done the work and given it back; no more, no less - Peco went over and above.

 About a month ago I noticed that the canvas next to the door had a small tear where it attaches to the box.  Again I took it to Peco; no questions asked they took the canvas off of thier display model and installed it on my camper.  Most dealerships would have either argued with me that it wasn't that way wehn I picked it up or would have told me they needed to order the part; come back in 2 or 3 weeks.

[tlhdoc]

ANY trailer can have problems.  A GREAT dealer is the most important part of buying a PU, especially a new one.

[hoppy]

Georgiaboy,

 What was included in the Palomino price of $ 7,000.00?

[GeorgiaBoy]

Georgiaboy,

 What was included in the Palomino price of $ 7,000.00?

A/C, roof vent, awning, outside grill

[hoppy]

Georgiaboy,

 It sounds like the Fleetwood is pretty comparatively priced to the Palomino if you look at the extras and goodies:

 The Resolute includes the 3-way fridge, ( approx $395.00) electric brakes, ( aprox $ 195.00) . This equals $ 600.00 of the $ 1,000.00 difference.

  Now the upgrades of the Resolute over the Yearling:

 A 25 amp converter vs 12 amp.
 1 foot larger open length.  (21.4  vs 20.2)
 Leaf spring suspension vs torsion.
 Stepper door with one piece door system.
 Front storage area molded vinyl vs wood frame over aluminum.
 Self storing dolly jack.
 Swing level galley vs fold over.
 Metal frames around all storage seats.

  The Yearling has better counter space, Resolute has better seating  and sleeping capacity.

  It seams like they are pretty close in value, but when you add in the dealer factor for warranty work and parts availibility, Peco wins this hands down.

   Please keep in mind that these are my personal prefferences since I have owned both versions of all the differences, the final decission is all yours.

   Hope this helps in deciding, and good luck with the unit you do choose.  Both are great choices, the two dealers are the difference to me.