First post - Help with sway pls!

[knuk78]

Hi all,

I've been visiting this site and others for a while now as I'm new to pop up camping.  I've found all the information very helpful.  I hope some of you can help answer some questions I have about sway.

My mom and I go camping in a "new to us" camper which she purchased in early June.  It's a 1997 Viking Saga 1806 - 8' box.  Her tow vehicle is a 2002 Pontiac Montana - extended with towing package.  We have been on 2 trips so far, and have noticed some sway while towing.  On our first trip, we were doing about 100 km/h (the speed limit) and when my mom went to pass a truck in the outside lane, we started to fishtail - It was pretty scary and for a moment I was sure we were going to end up in the ditch! :eyecrazy: After that we decided to take it easy and stay in the inside lane.  On our 2nd trip this past w/end we noticed that going over about 95 km/hr caused the trailer to sway a bit and was enough to give me panic attacks thinking about when we got out of control last time - I had to ask her to pls keep it at around 90 so this wouldn't happen - I felt stupid asking her to drive this slow but my nerves couldn't take it!

I have heard of other ppl doing 60 - 70 mph while towing and am wondering why we can't get to 100 km/hr without swaying?  :confused:   I don't think we overload the trailer - most of our stuff is in the tv - only the drawers/cupboards are filled in the trailer - nothing on floor except stove, sleeping bags.  The tire pressure is fine - it was checked after purchase.

My question is can we install anything that will help - like a friction anti-sway bar?  (I don't even really know what this is but I have heard it mentioned here before)  Would a WDH help?  (again, not sure what this is exactly, but I've read that some trailers can't accept them - the Viking manual says not to install one.  The Montana manual said to use over a certain weight and I think we're under).

Again, any help or suggestions would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance for any replies!

Kirsty

 :C

[abbear]

First - do you know how much the trailer weighs?  It's important to know that so that you can figure out if you have it loaded correctly by weighing the tongue.  The tongue needs to weigh 10-15% of what the trailer weighs and you can weigh the tongue on a bathroom scale.  Tongue weights that are not within specs can be a major cause of sway.  Also be sure that neither the trailer or the tow vehicle are overloaded as that also can cause sway.

A friction sway control bar is inexpensive and functional but it should not be used to try and correct a problem such as that mentioned above.  It is an additional safeguard to proper weight and balance.

This will get you started.  I've left some out that others will shortly fill in.  Take your time and understand it all - it's really pretty important.

Good luck.

[knuk78]

abbear,

Thanks for the info and the quick reply.

The trailer weighs 1350 lbs.  The previous owner told us the tongue weight is 130 lbs (which fits in the 10-15% range).  We will need to weigh the tongue as we haven't done so already.  Maybe it isn't right.  

Some more tv info - the Montana is rated for towing at 3500 lbs.

When reading the trailer manual there was a lot of technical information related to trailer weight etc. that didn't really make sense to us, so hopefully folks here can help explain better.

Thanks,

Kirsty
 :C

[SpeakEasy]

What abbear said about tongue weight is very important. That's your first order of business. You can add luggage to the front of the trailer to add weight to the tongue. Keep in mind that if you add luggage to the rear of the trailer you'll be taking weight off the tongue (think of a playground see-saw).

After you're sure you've got the right weight balance, then speed is a big factor. The faster you go, the more likely you are to have a big problem with sway. I've driven all over the USA at a mere 55mph with my previous tow vehicle because my trailer had a tendency to sway when I went much faster.

Here's what happens: when the trailer tries to go faster than the tow vehicle (such as when a big truck passes you and blasts you with turbulance, or when you pass a big truck and drive through its turbulance) it has nowhere to go so it starts to sway. If you hit your tow vehicle's brake at that moment it makes the problem even worse. Remember, the trailer is trying to go faster than the tow vehicle, and you slow the tow vehicle down by hitting the brake. The best thing to do is to slow down the trailer ONLY. How? That's where trailer brakes with a separate hand-operated controller come in. If you can hit the trailer's brakes by hand without hitting your tow vehicle's brakes, the sway will stop almost immediately.

If you are going downhill you're also more likely to experience sway.

Understanding what causes it and when it's likely to happen is key to being able to prevent it and control it. Even if you decide to use an anti-sway device, you need to understand this stuff.

Great travels!

[SkipP]

Another consideration is air pressure...for the tires on the camper AND the tow vehicle. If they are too soft, it increases the chances of sway. Check the max. pressure rating on the sidewalls of the tire(s) and try to stay near that.

[knuk78]

Thanks guys!  It's starting to make more sense now!

SpeakEasy,
In talking to my mom we are both thinking that our tongue weight was too low.  We were so concerned about putting ANY weight in the trailer that I don't think we had enough weight on the tongue.  That should be easy to fix and hopefully help.

As for speed, I know if we stay around 90km/hr we are fine and only start to sway if a big truck passes etc.  I guess I wasn't sure what speed most others drive at while towing.  We are thinking if we correct tongue weight and add sway bar, the sway will be lessened in these situations.

As for trailer brakes, we don't have them.  My mom was just reading the towing section of her Montana, and it recommends having brakes on any trailer over 1000 lbs (hers is 1350).  How necessary is this?  Do most people with lighter trailers have brakes?  Are they expensive to add?

SkipP,
Thanks for the tip re air pressure - My mom just checked her TV tires today and discovered that one of her rear tires (which was replaced a couple months ago after a flat) was only at 28psi when max is 36!  The others were actually over at 38psi (I guess since hadn't been checked since fall) so they're all at 36 now.  Her trailer tires are OK.

Her Montana manual also said to consider a sway bar with trailers under 2000 lbs.  We're going to call the place she had her hitch installed and see what to get.  We're going on a 4 day trip up to Kilbear Prov. Park (near Parry Sound) with relatives from Scotland next week.  It's a 5 hr journey, so we would like to get things straightened out (no pun intended) :p  now!

Thanks for your replies!

Kirsty
 :C

[AustinBoston]

First, I agree with what others have said.

Second, you are right to be concerned.  I have experienced life-and-death trailer sway and thought I was going to roll the van and kill my passenger and myself.  Only by the grace of God did we drive away.  The incident did $2000 USD damage to the van when the trailer (travelling sideways) made solid contact with the van bumper.

Ten percent tongue weight is the absolute minimum.  It needs to be based on the trailer's actual weight, not it's rated weight, so if it isn't fully loaded, you don't need as much tongue weight.

Sway bars are very good at supressing sway, but there's a problem.  Once in a geat while, they fail.  When that happens, you can be very suddenly propelled into an extremely dangerous sway situation.  If they are used for what they are intended - as an "insurance policy" on a setup that is as close as you can get to right - then they are a great idea.  If they are used as a band-aid to cover up an unstable situation, then they are a fatality waiting to happen.

Driving technique matters, and it can be difficult to know what you (or your mother) might be doing wrong.  But there's a strong clue with the sway showing up when passing trucks (or being passed by them).  My wife actually clued me in to something I was doing wrong.  (She always had a lot less sway than me when dealing with trucks and busses.)  When the truck passes (or when passing the truck), don't fight the slipstream.  I'm a driver who likes to stay dead center in the lane, as though the van was on steel rails.  But that doesn't always work when towing.  I found that when I let the slipstream push me around a little (six inches is typical), my corrections were smoother, which is one key to avoiding sway - making only gradual, smooth movements.

This is counter to instinct, but when the trailer is swaying, don't slow down, or only slow down very gradually.  This is especially important if the trailer doesn't have it's own brakes.  When sway gets out of control, the trailer is trying to pass the van.  Slowing down the van (without trailer brakes) gives it more reason to try to do so.  If you think back, I'd bet none of the sway incidents happened while going up hill.

Do you have trailer brakes?  Many trailers that size do not (which is OK as long as you allow enough extra stopping distance).  But electric brakes can be used to dampen sway in a pinch.  With electric brakes, there is a controller in the van that normally controls the trailer brakes automatically.  But it comes with a manual lever that can be used to apply just the trailer brakes.  Gradually applying that manual lever can slow the trailer down and put it back behind the van where it belongs.  Don't think of this as a cure-all; it is a last resort when chaos threatens to taken over.

Do the weight, balance, and tire pressure things first.  If that solves the problem, then feel free to add a sway bar for peace of mind.  If it doesn't work, then there is probably something more serious wrong with the trailer or the van (such as an alignment problem, or a bent axle or hitch).

Good luck and safe trailering,

Austin

[Steve-o-bud]

One other thing to consider: The trailer should ride level. If it is riding nose high, or nose low, this can also cause instability. This is determined by the level of the ball mount on your hitch, if it is two high, your trailer will ride nose high, and vice-versa. You can get the ball mounts in different drop lengths, or you can get one that allows you to shoose how high or low to set it, which is typically found on weight distributing hitches.
 
Also, if your trailer is equiped with a fresh water tank that is mounted aft of the trailer axel, travel with it empty, as the extra weight (at 8 pounds per gallon) can make a big difference, as I experienced first hand when I almost wrecked my trailer in a sway incident. I also think that the water sloshing around in the tank can make a difference.

[TheViking]

One more note: When pulling my TT I have all the goodies to combat sway, a WDH to help with sway and level the trailer, a friction sway control bar, I make sure the tires are at the right pressure, etc.  But, I have noticed that if I hit 71 mph I start getting into a little sway.  My point is, that you may have a speed that you need to recognize as a max speed to stay under to avoid sway.  This should help as well as all the other good advice you have received here.

[knuk78]

Thanks for the additional info!

We're going to make sure that we do everything mentioned here and think that things should be improved.  We will probably add a sway bar just for additional peace of mind on top of everything else.  Then we will still only drive at a speed that is comfortable to us - if that means staying at around 90km/hr that's fine with us.  I guess it just also takes some getting used to driving a bit slower when there are others zooming by you at much higher speeds! :eyecrazy:

Thanks again for all your input!

Kirsty
 :C