Can I tow all of this over the MOUNTAINS

[Billy Bob]

OK we have our Sante Fe PU home and so far added 113 lbs to her in gear. She weights 2040 empty with the battery and a full tank of propane. I don't plan on adding anything else to the PU. So our total trailer weight is 2153 loaded.

We plan on towing with our 2002 Ford Escape that has a towing package and is rated for 3500 lbs. Ford Escape's come with a tranny cooler but I am adding another one plus a tranny temperature gauge.

I expect adding another 200 lbs of clothes and food at the MOST to the back of the Escape. The GCW weight that the Escape can handle is 7020. So with passengers, cargo and the trailer our total will be around 6350 at the MOST. How do you think we will do in the mountains. We are traveling from Western NY to Yellowstone, Zion, North Rim of the Grand Canyon and Colorado Springs before heading home (east).

[AustinBoston]

OK we have our Sante Fe PU home and so far added 113 lbs to her in gear. She weights 2040 empty with the battery and a full tank of propane. I don't plan on adding anything else to the PU. So our total trailer weight is 2153 loaded.

We plan on towing with our 2002 Ford Escape that has a towing package and is rated for 3500 lbs. Ford Escape's come with a tranny cooler but I am adding another one plus a tranny temperature gauge.

I expect adding another 200 lbs of clothes and food at the MOST to the back of the Escape. The GCW weight that the Escape can handle is 7020. So with passengers, cargo and the trailer our total will be around 6350 at the MOST. How do you think we will do in the mountains. We are traveling from Western NY to Yellowstone, Zion, North Rim of the Grand Canyon and Colorado Springs before heading home (east).

Does the Santa Fe have brakes?  Because slowing and stopping in the mountains is a lot more important than towing.  Watch for a post by yours truly about towing (particularly downhill) in the mountains.

As far as uphill, just plan on not always being able to maintain the speed limit.  With an aux. tranny cooler, you won't damage anything, but when the grades become steep enough, it takes a real monster to tow like you would on flat ground.  

One other thing that doesn't get mentioned a lot - normally aspirated (non turbocharged) engines loose 2-4% of their horsepower for every 1,000 feet in elevation.  So when you are pulling up towards the 9,000+ feet you will have to reach approaching the GC, you will be working with 18%-36% less horsepower than on the NYS Thruway - a huge deficit.  You will be able to do it, but don't expect to maintian the speed limit!

Be aware of when you have a long line of cars behind you, and (when safe to do so) let them by...in some western states, it's the law, even if you are at or above the speed limit.

Those are some beautiful places you plan on seeing.  I believe all Americans should see both the Grand Canyon and Yellowstone at least once in their lifetimes.  Sadly, at the current rate of visitis, it would take 100 years for the whole population of the U.S. to visit the Grand Canyon.  And when we were there, I'd estimate that between 40 and 50% of the people there were not from the U.S, and many that were had probably been there before.

You have chosen the better place to visit the Grand Canyon.  90% of the people who visit the GC do so at the south rim (there's an airport at Flagstaff).  But when you get to the north rim, there are places you can stand and have all of your field of view, even the extremes of your perhiperal vision, filled with canyon and sky.  From the south rim, many people love to watch the sun rise.  But from the north rim, you want to watch it set.

It's cooler at the north rim, being nearly 2,000 feet higher in elevation.  And there are trees!  The north rim is covered with tall ponderosa pines, a stark contrast to the desert scrub that rules the south rim.  If you really want to see the south rim, go to the north rim visitor's center, take out your binoculars, and look across.  It's about 10-15 miles away.  You won't be able to see the crowds, but you will be able to see the buildings.  Trust me, the crowds are there.

One other thing.  Don't take to running or strenuous activity.  The north rim is almost 9,000 feet above sea level.  With each breath, you get 20% less oxygen than at sea level.  You can tire easily, and will recover slowly.  Take it easy, and you won't notice.  Push yourself, and you will suffer.

Have a great trip.

Austin

[Billy Bob]

Austin, thanks for the reply. YES the Sante Fe has brakes. It's a new 2006 and I don't think Fleetwood sells any PU's without brakes.

I'll be taking it slow and steady in the high ground as you say. She tows quite well here in the flat lands but I was really concerned going through the mountains. This will probably be our only trip in the mountains so I really want the Escape to make this trip without problems. When I am not towing she get 25-26 MPG and we all  know how important that is these days.

Thanks Again,
Bob

[wynot]

Like everyone SHOULD do, use your lower gears to control your downhill speed when in any type of mountainous terrain.  These campers can really shove small tow vehicles pretty good.  Plus, your gas mileage will increase by doing so (over leaving it in D and running your brakes - increases engine vacuum and thus fuel economy) and you will still have brakes at the bottom.  
 
I'm always amazed by the folks who ride their brakes when towing, rather than letting the engine provide the braking for them.
 
You'll be OK in the mountains as long as you have it under control.

[fritz_monroe]

This sounds like a great trip.  How long will you be gone?  What route are you taking?  Please post a trip report when you return.

We are located in Baltimore, and I'd love to make that trip.

[AustinBoston]

Plus, your gas mileage will increase by doing so (over leaving it in D and running your brakes - increases engine vacuum and thus fuel economy) and you will still have brakes at the bottom.

Yep, I've seen the "instant" mileage gauge hit 99 MPG (max reading) for 10 miles or more while going downhill.  Doesn't make up for getting 14 MPG on the way up, though.  

Austin

[wynot]

Yep, I've seen the "instant" mileage gauge hit 99 MPG (max reading) for 10 miles or more while going downhill. Doesn't make up for getting 14 MPG on the way up, though.
 
Austin

Yeah, me too.  Everytime I rent a car that has one of those, I spend more time watching that than the speedo...  Really, though, there's been pretty exhaustive testing done on whether it's better to leave a vehicle in overdrive/drive and let the vehicle just fly downhill (with foot off the gas) or to downshift and let the engine braking keep the vehicle around the speed limit (again, with the foot off the gas).  The downshifting actually improved the gas mileage.  Obviously, this only applies if the vehicle will maintain the speed in the lower gear, not if you have to give it gas in the lower gear...
 
Another bizarre trick of the gas misers was to accelerate slightly past the crusing speed, then let off the gas and let the vehicle drift back down to the desired speed.  Seems that the "slowing down" time actually saved a little bit of fuel compared to coming to the crusing speed and holding.

[flyfisherman]

B.B. - no doubt about it, the mountains will sort out real quick any shortcomings with your TV or how the rig is set-up.

I spend most of my camping/fishing time in the western North Carolina mountains, and not too long ago visited the Rockies west of Denver.  Usually the main interstate highways through mountains are laid out well; it's them secondary roads where road layout planning was not priority #1, but rather getting from point A to point B  was the main concern. In western NC there are some secondary roads that drop down through a river's gorge, where you think on the way down (with your ears popping because of the change in air pressure) that you'll never reach bottom, with all kinds of cut backs so sharp that you'll get a glimpse of the camper's rear bumper! And no guard rails, just the edge of the road and with a long, long way to the bottom! Sweetie cannot look over the edge as she will become car sick (another risk factor!) but rather she'll just bury her face in her arms and won't peak! Once you do get to the bottom, no matter which way you go, you'll have to climb back out. Yes sir,  will sort the wheat from the shaft very soon!

West of Denver, stayed at the Arapaho Nat'l Forest (Echo Lake C/G - 10,000' + elev.),  just off state route 5, out of Idaho Springs and close to Mt. Evans (elev 14,265).  That route 5 was touted as being the highest auto road in North America.  My TV at the time was a '00 GMC Sonoma with a 4.3 V-6 (rear axle ratio 3:42), heavy duty suspension, extended cab, 2-whl drive; a very good TV for my little Starcraft (2090 GVWR and loaded to just about max). What I really liked about that 4.3 V-6 is that it's torqed out @ a low RPM (2800) and made it a great TV for climbing mountains. However ... Mr.GoodWrench says for every 1,000 feet of elevation it will cost the engine about 4% of it's power. Since I live at sea level, that meant when I reached Denver's mile high altitude, I was less 20% power; and I can tell you when we reached the C/G's 10,000' the little bugger was pantin'; and when we took a drive a little further up the scenic highway (without the camper) , she was really weezin' - down 50% of her HP and just not her frisky self! But what a view!


Fly

[tlhdoc]

If you take your time and are not in a hurry you should do fine.  Make sure your trailer brakes are adjusted and that your brake controller is properly adjusted too.  Have a wonderful trip.