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Outside stove repair and modification

Started by AustinBoston, Aug 20, 2006, 09:43 PM

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AustinBoston

I'm a firm believer in "If it ain't broke, don't fix it...uh, but perform routine maintenance."

Well, our outside stove wasn't broke, but it was so far gone it was on it's way.  Because of my philosophy, this was the first non-trivial repair I have made to the Taj MaHaul.

My Coleman Bayside Outside Stove Repair page on Webshots illustrates what was going on and how I fixed it.

Basically, the stove's mounting base, a piece of 3/4" piece of Melamine, had seen a bit too much water exposure and had swollen to the point I was afraid it would fail...dropping boiling water and flaming propane burners to the ground - or worse.  So it was time to fix it.

I decided to use Melamine again.  Melamine is essentailly particle board sandwiched between two very resilient layers of a plastic-like material.  This sandwich gives it remarkable strength and a moisture-resistant surface.  I believe it is only available in white.

But wasn't Melamine the material that was failing?  Why not use something better?

Good question!  Yes, it was the Melamine that was failing.  But I don't believe it was the Melamine's fault.  Although the surface is water-resistant, the edges are not waterproof.  Melamine should not be subjected to rain or immersion in water.  Although our stove had never been under water, it had been rained on many times, so I consider it's failure mostly our own fault.  Keep in mind that this camper is nearly seven years old, and was our only home for half of the summer of 2003.   It was set up that whole summer, and rained on several times.  A bit more water exposure since really pushed it over the edge.  If my new Melamine surface lasted as long, it would be an old camper by then.

I saw some opportunities for improvement, and so I quized PJay about what might be helpful.  Together we came up with three things:
1) Make the surface on the right as large as possible without hitting the door.  The reason is a bit more complicated than even I want to explain.  I could make it about an inch wider and still have an inch clearance for the door.  That was enough to accomplish what she wanted.
2) Make the left side wide enough to hold a serving platter.  It turns out there was only enough room to make it about 4" wider, wide enough to safely balance a serving platter, as long as it was loaded/unloaded carefully.
3) Add enough space in front of the stove so that spatulas, forks, tongs, etc. would fit there.

In the end, it was a matter of fitting the stove in the front storage bin that stopped me from making it "deeper" than I did (adding more space in front) and the amount of space between the door and the screen of the screen room that stopped me from making it wider than I did.

I aslo chose to use the Melamine edge tape rather than the cheap plastic edging the original manufacturer used.  The tape has a backing that is similar to the hot glue used in glue guns.  You hold it in place and go over it with a hot iron.  The glue melts and then sets up when it cools.  If you make a mistake, you can re-heat it and adjust it.  Done right, it looks like a professional job, it reduces the possibility of moisture penetration, and strengthens the edge.

Melamine is fairly easy to work with, but the surface will chip if not cut properly.  One of the photos at the link above shows just how badly it can chip.  The first rule in preventing chipping is to use a fine finish blade to cut it.  The second is to not be in a hurry.  Jamming any saw blade into the Melamine will chip the surface, no matter how fine the teeth.  I put masking tape over some of the cuts, but I'm not convinced it made a difference.  After a little practice, I could cut it without a single chip, with or without masking tape.

I first took apart the stove, removing all of the hardware from the old Melamine.  Many of the screws were rusted, so I replaced them with stainless steel, a bit of overkill for something that is not supposed to get wet, but at least there won't be any more rusting screws!

Then I cut the new Melamine to it's final outside dimensions.  Using the old piece as a template, I traced the hole for the stove onto the new piece of Melamine.  A quick tip:  You can write directly on the melamine with a pencil.  It will wash off afterwards, just don't bear down.

Just tracing something does not reproduce the same size object, but one that is smaller (or bigger, depending) by the thickness of your pencil.  So after drilling corner holes and four other holes for the monting hardware, I cut the hole very slightly larger than the tracing.  It turned out to be a perfect fit.

Putting it back together turned into an adventure in re-doing things.  It had been a few days since I took it apart, so I didn't have the order in my brain any more.  I put the top on the stove three times before I left it there.  :yikes:

The result - it looks better than new.  It doesn't have those ugly stickers on it, like the one that said "HIGH PRESSURE."  I don't think anything should be high pressure when camping except the showers.

PJay is looking forward to using it on Labor Day weekend.

Austin

Beerlifter

Once again an awesome job Austin.

The stove top does look better than new and with the added space I'm sure the DW (and yourself!) will enjoy it..

tlhdoc

It looks good!  On newer trailers the outside stove is metal.  I guess they figured out that the particle board isn't for outside use.:)

brainpause

Thanks for the great pictures. I might use melamine in my Starcraft restoration, on the inside cabinets.

That is, IF, and a BIG IF I can get the roof lift system fixed.

Larry

tknick

Austin, my Bayside has the exact same problem.  in fact, I thought your webshots of the stove were taken the last time we had ours set up!  Anyway, I was thinking of doing exactly what you did.  I was thinking of using plastic or some other manmade material that was impervious to the water. The idea I had was the plastic material they use for commercial bathroom partitions (don't ask me how that idea came to me).  If anyone has any suggestions on where I could score some of that or a similar material I would appreciate it.  If not, I will use Austin's expert step by step instructions.  good job Austin

travis

wynot

Quote from: AustinBostonI'm a firm believer in "If it ain't broke, don't fix it...uh, but perform routine maintenance."
 
Well, our outside stove wasn't broke, but it was so far gone it was on it's way. Because of my philosophy, this was the first non-trivial repair I have made to the Taj MaHaul.
 
My Coleman Bayside Outside Stove Repair page on Webshots illustrates what was going on and how I fixed it.
 
Basically, the stove's mounting base, a piece of 3/4" piece of Melamine, had seen a bit too much water exposure and had swollen to the point I was afraid it would fail...dropping boiling water and flaming propane burners to the ground - or worse. So it was time to fix it.
 
I decided to use Melamine again. Melamine is essentailly particle board sandwiched between two very resilient layers of a plastic-like material. This sandwich gives it remarkable strength and a moisture-resistant surface. I believe it is only available in white.
 
But wasn't Melamine the material that was failing? Why not use something better?
 
Good question! Yes, it was the Melamine that was failing. But I don't believe it was the Melamine's fault. Although the surface is water-resistant, the edges are not waterproof. Melamine should not be subjected to rain or immersion in water. Although our stove had never been under water, it had been rained on many times, so I consider it's failure mostly our own fault. Keep in mind that this camper is nearly seven years old, and was our only home for half of the summer of 2003. It was set up that whole summer, and rained on several times. A bit more water exposure since really pushed it over the edge. If my new Melamine surface lasted as long, it would be an old camper by then.
 
I saw some opportunities for improvement, and so I quized PJay about what might be helpful. Together we came up with three things:
1) Make the surface on the right as large as possible without hitting the door. The reason is a bit more complicated than even I want to explain. I could make it about an inch wider and still have an inch clearance for the door. That was enough to accomplish what she wanted.
2) Make the left side wide enough to hold a serving platter. It turns out there was only enough room to make it about 4" wider, wide enough to safely balance a serving platter, as long as it was loaded/unloaded carefully.
3) Add enough space in front of the stove so that spatulas, forks, tongs, etc. would fit there.
 
In the end, it was a matter of fitting the stove in the front storage bin that stopped me from making it "deeper" than I did (adding more space in front) and the amount of space between the door and the screen of the screen room that stopped me from making it wider than I did.
 
I aslo chose to use the Melamine edge tape rather than the cheap plastic edging the original manufacturer used. The tape has a backing that is similar to the hot glue used in glue guns. You hold it in place and go over it with a hot iron. The glue melts and then sets up when it cools. If you make a mistake, you can re-heat it and adjust it. Done right, it looks like a professional job, it reduces the possibility of moisture penetration, and strengthens the edge.
 
Melamine is fairly easy to work with, but the surface will chip if not cut properly. One of the photos at the link above shows just how badly it can chip. The first rule in preventing chipping is to use a fine finish blade to cut it. The second is to not be in a hurry. Jamming any saw blade into the Melamine will chip the surface, no matter how fine the teeth. I put masking tape over some of the cuts, but I'm not convinced it made a difference. After a little practice, I could cut it without a single chip, with or without masking tape.
 
I first took apart the stove, removing all of the hardware from the old Melamine. Many of the screws were rusted, so I replaced them with stainless steel, a bit of overkill for something that is not supposed to get wet, but at least there won't be any more rusting screws!
 
Then I cut the new Melamine to it's final outside dimensions. Using the old piece as a template, I traced the hole for the stove onto the new piece of Melamine. A quick tip: You can write directly on the melamine with a pencil. It will wash off afterwards, just don't bear down.
 
Just tracing something does not reproduce the same size object, but one that is smaller (or bigger, depending) by the thickness of your pencil. So after drilling corner holes and four other holes for the monting hardware, I cut the hole very slightly larger than the tracing. It turned out to be a perfect fit.
 
Putting it back together turned into an adventure in re-doing things. It had been a few days since I took it apart, so I didn't have the order in my brain any more. I put the top on the stove three times before I left it there. :yikes:
 
The result - it looks better than new. It doesn't have those ugly stickers on it, like the one that said "HIGH PRESSURE." I don't think anything should be high pressure when camping except the showers.
 
PJay is looking forward to using it on Labor Day weekend.
 
Austin
When I replaced mine, with a much larger "counter" - I used melamine as well, and edge tape as well.  I went about the sealing a bit different.  My stove counter was sprayed about half a dozen times on all sides with marine spar varnish, especially where the particle board was exposed inside the stove surround.  It's worked well for probably 3 or 4 years now.
 
I also mounted additional support track on the stove counter and on the camper.

wynot

Quote from: tknickAustin, my Bayside has the exact same problem. in fact, I thought your webshots of the stove were taken the last time we had ours set up! Anyway, I was thinking of doing exactly what you did. I was thinking of using plastic or some other manmade material that was impervious to the water. The idea I had was the plastic material they use for commercial bathroom partitions (don't ask me how that idea came to me). If anyone has any suggestions on where I could score some of that or a similar material I would appreciate it. If not, I will use Austin's expert step by step instructions. good job Austin
 
travis
Travis, I was looking for the same stuff years ago, and couldn't find it.  I even went to large plumbing supply houses for it.  No one could tell me where it came from and there aren't any labels for it.  If I were still looking, I might contact "buyers" for commercial builders...you know, one's that build restaurants, office buildings, etc...

zamboni

Quote from: tknickIf anyone has any suggestions on where I could score some of that or a similar material I would appreciate it.


Corian.


Or, Silestone.


Or equivalent ;)

The material, being a solid plastic-base, is easy to work with.  You can drill it, cut it with a saw, screw into it, sand it, etc.

Not sure where to get them - but if you think about kitchen installers - they have to cut out a rather large piece for a double-kitchen sink.  I've found references to places selling those scraps.

Here's one: http://solidsurfacesurplus.com/?gclid=CPCCjbXo9oYCFTiGIgoddSg7cg
(26" x 39" is $72)

Another place is http://www.renaissance.us.com/ (found link on this thread http://www.signs101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1711 )

When I finally build my outdoor BBQ, I want to try to get a piece of Corian for the surface.  I dislike that grout stains, and also makes the surface not completely smooth - we love our kitchen Corian counters.

wynot

Quote from: zamboniCorian.
 
 
Or, Silestone.
 
 
Or equivalent ;)
 
QUOTE]
 
I would think solid surfacing stuff would be really heavy, isn't it?  Lot of difference between something that needs to hang off the side of the camper, compared to be placed on cupboards...
 
But I am speculating...

zamboni

Quote from: wynotI would think solid surfacing stuff would be really heavy, isn't it?

4.4 lbs per square foot for 1/2" thickness (which is standard).  Not really that heavy.  I'll bet melamine is close to that.

http://www.keidel.com/design/select/tops-matl-solid.htm

According to Mills Pride, a 24" x 27" piece (about 4.5 sq ft) weighs 16 lbs... so about 3.5 lbs per square foot:
http://www.millspride.com/assembleinstall/closet_specbook/accessories.htm

AustinBoston

Quote from: zamboni4.4 lbs per square foot for 1/2" thickness (which is standard).  Not really that heavy.  I'll bet melamine is close to that.

I would be surprised if my cut sheet (3.5 square feet, before the hole was cut out) was 4 lbs.  Even with all the steel of the stove, it weighs significantly less than a gallon of milk.

Austin

wynot

Quote from: AustinBostonI would be surprised if my cut sheet (3.5 square feet, before the hole was cut out) was 4 lbs. Even with all the steel of the stove, it weighs significantly less than a gallon of milk.
 
Austin
I agree, It's not overly heavy for my version either, and certainly not 3.5-4.5 lbs sq foot.  Don't get me wrong, I have it braced adequately, but mainly because I put filled saucepans, etc. on the counter as well.
 
I do think the solid surfacing would be prettier than the melamine that I have though...but, I don't wash the camper, so why would I worry about it...other than making sure the counter and stove stay clean.

zamboni

If I could find "J" channel and a bracket (OK, I haven't really looked) - then I'd probably buy a chunk of Corian to build a shelf to put on the outside bracket on my hybrid.

It is there for an RVQ, but I can't justify almost $200 for something that is about as hard to make as a $30 Walmart propane grill.