Overheating wheels

[kaiserdad]

We have our first pop up and had a bad experience on our second voyage. We strarted at about 10 miles out by overheating the hub and so I repacked the bearings, then about 20 miles later we had a blow-out. The hub was smoking so I went to repack the bearings only to be scalled with boiling grease under pressure when I removed the grease cap. The brake parts were destroyed so I repacked the bearings and made it to the campsite. I then found new bearings and replaced both sides and removed the brakes from the other side for the return trip.

The Jayco has surge brakes. Each time the overheating happened the drum came off easily and the brakes did not seem to be locked up. The return trip went without incident. I am going to replace all of the brake parts. Would the brakes cause this problem. And does anyone know where I can buy rebuild parts for the actuator portion of the trailer?

[mike4947]

Any RV dealer can sell you the Atwood parts to rebuild the master cylinder. But IMHO it's a losing battle. Either it's good or replace it.

I take it the trailer isn't new. If not here's a few things to check. #1 that the coupler actually moves when braking. It's common if there's been no maitenance for the pivots to rust up and stick. If they stick when pulling you don't have brakes. If they stick during braking or backing you've locked the brakes on.
#2 when you replace the brake parts, totally replace the brake fluid. trailers sitting for months on end have a habit of picking up moisture in the brake fluid and rusting out the master cylinder and wheel clyinders.
 
Question? any rust showing on the drum surfaces where the shoes ride?

[kaiserdad]

You are correct in assuming that the trailer is not new. It is a 1999 model. Used very little, which is probably part of the braking problem.
I have sprayed and sprayed the hitch with penetrating spray and greased what I can get to trying to eliminate any binding.

The inside of the brake fluid resevoir is rusty and I will definatley replace all of the fluid. I had planned to just replace everything but the lines themselves.

I am still confused about why, if the brakes were the problem that each time I got to removing the drum they were loose? I am generally good at diagnosing mechanical problems this one is just odd. I would have thought that if the brakes were locked to the point of making smoke that the drum would be hard to remove because of the brakes binding on them.

I have seen where some people say that surge brakes are always going to cause problems and others say they are better than electric. Any opinions on that? My SUV has an electric brake controller and I thought that maybe if Im going to be replacing almost everything I should look at the option of changing to an electric system. My major concern with that was the moving coupler.

Another interesting fact is that I have never had to engage or disengage the brakes by manually moving the pin/lever (?) to the backup position on the coupler. I have learned and have read that this should be done every time you move in reverse since the brakes will be locked, it was never a problem. I don't know if this is relevant or not.

[AustinBoston]

I am still confused about why, if the brakes were the problem that each time I got to removing the drum they were loose?

Did they have a chance to cool off in the meantime?

I have seen where some people say that surge brakes are always going to cause problems and others say they are better than electric. Any opinions on that?

Both are wrong.  Surge brakes have their place, and that is on boat trailers or rentals (where adding or removing a controller for a one-weekend rental would be unreasonable).   For surge brakes to be better than electric, the electric would have to be equipped with an old-fashioned timer-based controller.

My SUV has an electric brake controller and I thought that maybe if Im going to be replacing almost everything I should look at the option of changing to an electric system. My major concern with that was the moving coupler.

Should be able to find 10" brake kits for under $160.  Other deals might be better.
http://abctrailerparts.com/trailerbrakes.html

Austin

[kaiserdad]

Besides the new brake assembly at the wheels and new drums to fit these are there other pieces I would need? I know that I would have to wire the brake assembly to the wiring harness. I have the digital electronic contoller attached to my brakes in the Durango. I had this done when I was buying the trailer. The owner's father told me it had electric brakes, I had the controller and wiring harness installed and then found out that the camper had surge brakes.

[Steve-o-bud]

Besides the new brake assembly at the wheels and new drums to fit these are there other pieces I would need? I know that I would have to wire the brake assembly to the wiring harness. I have the digital electronic contoller attached to my brakes in the Durango. I had this done when I was buying the trailer. The owner's father told me it had electric brakes, I had the controller and wiring harness installed and then found out that the camper had surge brakes.

You'll also need to make provisions for a breakaway switch, and battery. The breakaway switch will be located on the trailer tongue, and has a lanyard which attaches to your tow vehicle. In case the trailer separates from the tow vehicle, it pulls a pin out of the switch, which closes the switch and causes your electric brakes to activate. The battery is required to power the brakes in this scenario.

[mike4947]

Way back when on my first new PU it had surge brakes and in those days there wasn't a backup lever to throw. You had to physically put a 1" square block between the actuator and it's lever to stop the coupler movement. But seeing as I was green as grass and the dealer never gave me the literature to explain it I didn't know. About the third time we camped the site was slightly uphill. The first times backing up wasn't a problem, but that slope on the site made the trailer "push" harder so the brakes kept locking up. After digging holes deep enough to require a back hoe to fill with the TV we finally enlisted some help and hand pushed the trailer onto the site. Some time later a fellow came over and explained what/why it happened.

[pfaust]

Ever think that maybe your spindle nuts were too tight?
That would definately cause your bearings to cook off.

[kaiserdad]

I thank everyone for the advice. I have ordered all new parts for the surge brakes and am waiting on their delivery.

[mudmanmike]

My buddy had a Jayco with surge brakes and he ran into the same problem as you. After $1000 of repairs and road side asistance, the dealer finally replaced the actuator at the tongue and the fluid. After he had that completed the problem went completely away. So you should have no problems after the repairs are done. Good luck.

[flyfisherman]

To continue with the reference sites:


http://www.championtrailers.com/brake_coupler_warnings.htm


Could this be the problem?


Fly

[Nemesis56]

Three common problems that cause your wheels to overheat:
Wheel bearing too tight/ insuficent lubrication.
Brakes sticking/dragging or not releasing
High speed driving on underinflated/overloaded tire.

To determine a bearing problem, dissasemble the hubs and bearings.  Look for heat discoloration  on the spindle, races, bearing cones, etc.  Use the proper grade bearing lube also.

On the brakes, look for heat discoloration on the drums.  Severe heat will also cause cracks in the brake linings. Are the wheel cylinders retracting all the way? Excess heat will aslo take the temper out of hold down and return springs causing them to weaken and not release and also drag.

Checkering, cracking of the sidewalls and small blistering on the tread and or sidewall is a good indication of excess load/heat and the need to upgrade the load range and/or tire size.

[AustinBoston]

Folks, check the dates.  This was a dead thread from back in July.

Austin

[Done Working]

Folks, check the dates.  This was a dead thread from back in July.

Austin

Still good information, especially the link from flyfisherman.

Hey, I don't even have surge brakes and find this information useful. Of course that may be because I enjoy learning about anything mechanical.