Winterizing question

[TroutBum]

I know that someone mentioned this a while back, but how many days/hours of uninterrupted below freezing temps does it take before damage will be done to my water system?  

We are getting our first frosts this week, but I was hoping to sneak one more trip in before having to fill 'er up with the pink stuff.

[tlhdoc]

I can't give you an answer to the time temperature question, but you could blow out your water lines and leave your faucet(s) open.  That way you shouldn't have much water in the system and if it does freeze there is room for the water to expand.  Hope you make the last trip.

[jsmorse13]

Just remember that most treated municipal water does not freeze at 32 degrees, it freezes at 18 degrees.

[campdaddy]

Just remember that most treated municipal water does not freeze at 32 degrees, it freezes at 18 degrees.

That's interesting. I've never heard of that. Could you elaborate?

[AustinBoston]

That's interesting. I've never heard of that. Could you elaborate?

I could believe it if he said "Just remember that most treated municipal water SYSTEMS do not freeze at 32 degrees, it freezes at 18 degrees."

While in most areas, that would still not be adequate, jsmorse13 is in Florida, where 18 degrees would be fine.  But my modified statement would still have the water freezing at or very near 32

[tlhdoc]

Just remember that most treated municipal water does not freeze at 32 degrees, it freezes at 18 degrees.

Not here.  We have municipal water and it freezes very close to 32 degrees Fahrenheit.  If I leave a water bowl out over night, and it is 30 degrees in the morning there is ice in the water bowl.

[ScouterMom]

I think what he means is that the water 'systems' - pipes, etc are insulated enough to not freeze @ 32deg.  Usually by either being running slightly or by being buried far enough underground, campgrounds CAN keep their water systems operating until  we get a hard freeze, not just frost.  

But since all the water systems in your camper are aboveground, not heated and not insulated - they can freeze.  And water expands when it freezes, cracking plastic fixtures.  

If you are actually CAMPING - and running your furnace, or heck, even enough HUMAN BODY heat in the camper can raise the temp enough degrees to keep the pipes from freezing.  But if the camper is sitting, unoccupied, waiting for the next camping trip, water in the system can freeze if the air around it is at freezing temp.

So I would drain your lines, and your tank, and leave them open for expansion, as recommended above.

If you are going to be doing much winter camping, you could try getting those insulating pipe covers, or even the low-heat electric wraps to keep your pipes flowing.  But I've never had personal experience with them, except on copper pipe in a house, so I'm not sure if they would work (or are even a good idea!) under a camper with plastic piping.


laura

[tlhdoc]

We winter camp, but other than using the sink drain and the cassette potty with its tank inside the PU, we don't use the water system.  There isn't enough heat coming through the PU floor to keep the pipes from freezing.  Some campgrounds have water hook ups all year long.  The have freeze proof faucets.

[jsmorse13]

I could believe it if he said "Just remember that most treated municipal water SYSTEMS do not freeze at 32 degrees, it freezes at 18 degrees."

While in most areas, that would still not be adequate, jsmorse13 is in Florida, where 18 degrees would be fine.  But my modified statement would still have the water freezing at or very near 32

[AustinBoston]

The town is Florida, the state is NY.  I know, it sounds wierd.

I've heard of Florida, NY before, and I just wasn't paying attention.  Sorry.

Municipal water is treated with additives to balance to hardness, ph, cleanliness, etc.  The freezing point typically is lower since the water is not pure.  One of the most common additives is chlorine due to its clarity.  Chlorine has a freezing point of -149.5 degrees farenheit.  When it is mixed with water, it drops the crystalization point of the water.

For chlorine to lower the freezing point of the water to 18

[CC777]

I returned from an early November trip and the next day our temps dipped to freezing.  I'm in the Catskill Mountains of NY.  I did not have the opportunity to winterize.  It stayed cold for a week but the temps did go up some days into the 40's.  I did a lot of praying.

I popped up a few days ago and plugged a heater in.  The weather dude promised it was going to get warm so there was my big chance.  My cassette was almost completely frozen.  I couldn't open the trap at first.  I poured some pink stuff into the holding tank and worked some through.  It was still crusted with ice and cold.  The darn heater went off due to a power failiure in the house.  I statred the heater up the next day and let it run again....so yesterday the cassette was thawed and I ran the antifreeze through with no problems.  Phew.

Finished winterizing today and popped down...just in time for an 80% chance of rain storms tomorrow.  Nothing like cutting it close.


CC

[tlhdoc]

My cassette was almost completely frozen.

So you had "Black Ice" in the holding tank.

[bud121156]

So you had "Black Ice" in the holding tank.

      Good one !!

[CC777]

Cute.

No silly.  That would havwe been terrible.  I always clean out the cassette at the dump station before leaving.  Thank goodness I didn't forget.  I knew I was going to be cutting it close weather wise.

Brat!


CC

[tlhdoc]

Brat!

I resemble that remark.  
 
We (COTOC) are camping at North-South Lake campground in the Catskill Mts the first weekend in May 2008.  Any chance of you joining us?