Towing Question

[threeflys]

Ok, I'm not sure if this is the right forum or not, so please move it if needed.

I currently have an '04 Accord V6 Coupe and with an upcoming baby this spring, not likely to be able to get anything else. We want to get a small pop-up, total weight no more than 2k. The engine is more than capable. I would put a transmission coolr on and have read to not drive in overdrive on the hills.

My question is this...is there anyone on here that has any experiance with this kind of set up? I realize this is not the ideal setup, but it's the best we'll have for the next couple of years.

Thanks,
Chris

[tlhdoc]

Without looking into the specks for the Honda, I doubt that it could tow something that heavy.  Check your owners manual or contact a Honda dealer and they would be able to tell you.  Don't ask a camper salesman.  Some will tell you anything to make a sale.  The suspension, amount of weight the axles can handle, and braking ability all play into how much you can tow.  Many cars can only tow 1000 pounds.  There are very small PUs out there that are under 1000 pounds.  Good luck.

[sacrawf]

Check your owners manual for your specs. Online Honda Forums suggest your car may only have a 1000 pound towing capacity.  That would limit you to something like the smallest Quicksilver popup (http://www.livinlite.com/TC/index.shtml) or tent camping until you are able to get a bigger tow vehicle.

Ok, I'm not sure if this is the right forum or not, so please move it if needed.

I currently have an '04 Accord V6 Coupe and with an upcoming baby this spring, not likely to be able to get anything else. We want to get a small pop-up, total weight no more than 2k. The engine is more than capable. I would put a transmission coolr on and have read to not drive in overdrive on the hills.

My question is this...is there anyone on here that has any experiance with this kind of set up? I realize this is not the ideal setup, but it's the best we'll have for the next couple of years.

Thanks,
Chris

[threeflys]

Thanks for the replies so far...

It's funny, you look at the Caravaners in Europe and a lot of them are pulling with cars like a 4 cyl. Kia Spectra. I had read once that when a car comes to the US, the towing capacity is bascially cut in half. I really don't think we'd be looking at anything weighing over 1500# loaded out.
Thanks again,
Chris

[flyfisherman]

For sure, the very first benefit of going from tent camping to a popup is the luxury of getting up off the ground and into some better seepling accommodations. From that point there are many, many amenities that can be added to a popup and they just cost money and increase the size and weight. As for me and my experience towing camper/trailers, I'd much rather have a camper that provides the basic accommodations, which can be enjoyed and safely towed, rather than something that is a white knuckled nightmare to try and get down the road. There are popups for smaller vehicles to safely tow, here's another site ~

http://www.trailmasterinc.com/


The objective in the first place was to be able to get out into the great outdoors and enjoy; not to be encumbered with some beast that's a danger to be on the road with, making the trip coming and going an unpleasant experience.



Fly

[campdaddy]

This topic has been covered extensively in this forum -just do a search- but wavery has probably the best thoughts I have seen on this topic (he used to tow with a car, and I'm sure he'll chime in here shotly), and that is that your insurance coverage may be invalidated if you tow over the weight limit or tow rating of your vehicle. For me, that would be reason enough to not do it.

[wavery]

The reality of "Towing" is that you are really concerned about "Stopping" a lot more than you are "Pulling". You can pull most any trailer with most any motor vehicle. Some will just pull faster or steeper hills than others.

Most states have a legal minimum stopping distance that a vehicle must be able to achieve. This is where your Honda may fall far short when towing any kind of trailer.

If the Honda does have a max tow rating of 1000# that does not mean that you can tow 1000# plus passengers and cargo.

What you must find out is what your GCVWR (gross-combined-vehicle-weight-rating) is. That is the weight rating that you must not exceed. That includes the vehicle, trailer, passengers and cargo. In other words, the total package that your brakes will be required to stop within the legal limits.

I don't know for sure but I am going to guess that by the time that you load a Honda Accord with passengers, cargo and gas, you may have very little if anything left for a trailer, no matter what the "MAX trailer towing capacity" is for that vehicle. That number is very deceiving and very mis-understood. It is critical to understand that you can only tow to your maximum tow rating IF you do not exceed your GCVWR.

Check with your insurance company. If you are involved in an accident while towing, they may refuse your claim if you are over you GCVWR. If their are injuries (or God forbid, a death) in the accident, the driver of the over-loaded vehicle could be looking at criminal charges for negligence.

[threeflys]

So, stopping is the issue. What about a brake controller? I've read a WDH might help also.
Chris

[wavery]

So, stopping is the issue. What about a brake controller? I've read a WDH might help also.
Chris

A brake controller is required to operate electric brakes (brakes are required on a PU weighing over 1500#). However, it doesn't change the limitations on your GCVWR. Everything hinges on your GCVWR, it is important that you find out what that is and not exceed it.

I even spent a considerable amount of $ installing high performance brakes on my Chrysler Concorde. I know that it would stop well within the legal limits even considering a long downhill grade at 60MPH.

The bottom line is, if you are over on your GCVWR, you are taking a very serious legal risk. That's why I went out and bought a little used S10 PU.

[threeflys]

I guess my question is what makes up the GCVWR limit? Is is the engine, brakes, length of vehicle? Everyone has said the real issue will be stopping. If I put trailor brakes on the pup and a brake controller in the car, would that not take care of the stopping issue? I'm really not trying to be belligerant, just trying to understand.
Chris

[wavery]

I guess my question is what makes up the GCVWR limit? Is is the engine, brakes, length of vehicle? Everyone has said the real issue will be stopping. If I put trailor brakes on the pup and a brake controller in the car, would that not take care of the stopping issue? I'm really not trying to be belligerant, just trying to understand.
Chris

The GCVWR is made up of a lot of factors in the manufacturing of every automobile. It takes into consideration brakes, engine, transmission, gear ratios, suspension, frame construction, tires even emissions. Every manufacturer has their own way of calculating this figure and it may even vary on 2 different models from the same designer.

It makes no difference to the insurance companies or the legal system, how you alter your car to increase it's towing ability. The bottom line is the rating (GCVWR) that is issued from the factory.

Putting brakes on the trailer is not an option (if over 1500#) it is assumed that the trailer will have brakes. The brakes on the trailer only take care of a certain % of the braking during different conditions. The most serious issue that one is faced with (when talking brakes) is "brake fade". Trailer brakes will help with brake fade under certain conditions. However, on a long downhill grade, they are not very effective in eliminating fade. Once your brakes fade, you have "0" brakes. This can also occur in stop & go traffic but the trailer brakes help a lot more there.

BTW, stopping is not the only issue. It is the real legal issue but there are many issues that may effect your pocket book. The law is only concerned that you don't hurt others. You may also want to be concerned about the damage that you may do to your own vehicle. Towing is very hard on a transmission that is not designed for it. You can partially help this issue with the addition of a trans cooler but you may still shorten the life of your engine & trans.

[campdaddy]

I suppose there are really two questions here; can it be done, and is it wise?

Can it be done? Sure, especially if you modify the TV with bigger brakes and transmission coolers and especially with electric brakes on the camper.

But is it wise? Well........even if you modify your TV to make it safe to tow over the rated 1000lbs, if your towing over what your TV is rated for -in this case 1000lbs- and your involved in a accident, even if it's just a property damage accident, I think you really need to consider the legal ramifications. And you can be sure that if you are involved in an accident while towing, that the State Patrol WILL investigate your weight. I personally would not do it.

Modify your TV and keep it below 1000lbs? Sure. But towing over the tow rating? I personally would not do it -at least on a regular basis. The legal liability is just too great a gamble for me.

BTW, you mentioned about little cars towing large campers in Europe. Check out this video.Towing a Camper

[dthurk]

A brake controller is required to operate electric brakes (brakes are required on a PU weighing over 1500#).

This figure may be correct for California.  It should be noted the requirements vary slightly from state to state.  

IIRC, in New York State, brakes are required if trailer UVW is greater than 1,000 lbs or if trailer GVW is greater than 4,000 lbs.  For example, I have a utility trailer whose UVW is 750 lbs. and GVW is 3990 lbs.  It does not have brakes and is legal.

At any rate, check your own state's requirements.

[wynot]

I currently have an '04 Accord V6 Coupe and with an upcoming baby this spring, not likely to be able to get anything else. We want to get a small pop-up, total weight no more than 2k. The engine is more than capable. I would put a transmission coolr on and have read to not drive in overdrive on the hills.
 
My question is this...is there anyone on here that has any experiance with this kind of set up? I realize this is not the ideal setup, but it's the best we'll have for the next couple of years.
 
Thanks,
Chris

As it has been noted, this has been covered a number of times.
 
Let's put this in perspective. I use my lawn tractor for moving my trailers around, and with my Utah probably having weighed every bit of 3,500 lbs with a 500 lb tongue weight, I think even a Honda can pull it.
 
Your suspension is so soft, your car's rear end would be far down and your front end way up taking most of the weight balance off the drive (and steering) wheels.
 
Stopping. Even with a brake controller, your stops would be incredibly long, as the trailer shoves you through the intersection. You never forget the first intersection you can't stop for... Forget mountains (climbing them is easy, but downhills are going to get you). If you don't use the transmission to control your descent, your rig will be doing 80 mph and you will lose your brakes as they overheat. Even with the tranny downshifted, you're going to pick up speed much faster than you think.
 
Sorry to be quite so nasty in my wording, but I think your rig concept is horribly unsafe. But that's my opinion.